/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2011-03-30 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Mar 30 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #css
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  19. # [05:37] <jdaggett> fantasai: ding-a-ling
  20. # [06:00] <fantasai> jdaggett: pong
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  29. # [09:30] <fantasai> Bert: I couldn't find the Changes for the {u}{r}{l} fix
  30. # [09:30] <fantasai> Bert: But there is a record of the original change from url()
  31. # [09:32] <fantasai> Bert: nm, I forgot to reload :)
  32. # [09:37] <fantasai> Bert: ok, edits checked
  33. # [09:41] <fantasai> meh, the DoC is out of date
  34. # [09:41] <fantasai> stay up and review or go to bed and do it tomorrow?
  35. # [09:41] * fantasai looks for a quarter
  36. # [09:42] <jdaggett> bed is always the best option
  37. # [09:42] <jdaggett> ;P
  38. # [09:42] <fantasai> but the eurocent says to stay up...
  39. # [09:43] <jdaggett> meh
  40. # [09:43] <fantasai> I'll go to bed.
  41. # [09:43] <fantasai> Not very awake
  42. # [09:43] <fantasai> want to curl up in the couch and naptime....
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  59. # [17:20] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/30-css-irc
  60. # [17:20] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
  61. # [17:20] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 43 minutes
  62. # [17:20] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
  63. # [17:20] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
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  70. # [17:51] <glazou> salut sylvaing
  71. # [17:52] <sylvaing> hello!
  72. # [17:53] * Joins: alexmog (alexmog@131.107.0.102)
  73. # [17:54] <kennyluck> kojiishi, I was referring to https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=156881
  74. # [17:54] <kennyluck> especially https://bug156881.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=94217
  75. # [17:55] <kennyluck> Are you saying that Italian typography also has this?
  76. # [17:59] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
  77. # [17:59] <Zakim> +plinss
  78. # [18:00] <Zakim> + +1.415.738.aaaa
  79. # [18:00] <Zakim> -plinss
  80. # [18:00] <Zakim> +plinss
  81. # [18:01] <Zakim> + +1.206.324.aabb
  82. # [18:01] * Joins: stearns (stearns@192.150.22.5)
  83. # [18:01] <plinss> zakim, aaaa is jdaggett
  84. # [18:01] <Zakim> +jdaggett; got it
  85. # [18:01] <Zakim> +hober
  86. # [18:01] <plinss> Zakim, aabb is sylvaing
  87. # [18:01] <Zakim> +sylvaing; got it
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  89. # [18:02] <Zakim> +stearns
  90. # [18:02] <Zakim> + +1.949.654.aacc
  91. # [18:03] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
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  93. # [18:03] <johnjan> zakim, microsoft has johnjan
  94. # [18:03] <Zakim> +johnjan; got it
  95. # [18:03] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  96. # [18:03] <duga> zakim, +1.949.654.aacc is duga
  97. # [18:03] <Zakim> +duga; got it
  98. # [18:03] <Arron> zakim, microsoft has me
  99. # [18:03] <Zakim> +Arron; got it
  100. # [18:03] <Zakim> +??P43
  101. # [18:04] <glazou> Zakim, ??PP43 is me
  102. # [18:04] <Zakim> sorry, glazou, I do not recognize a party named '??PP43'
  103. # [18:04] <Zakim> +arno
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  106. # [18:04] <plinss> http://www.w3.org/1998/12/bridge/info/name.php3
  107. # [18:04] <glazou> Zakim, ??P43 is me
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  110. # [18:04] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
  111. # [18:05] <Zakim> +David_Baron
  112. # [18:05] <Zakim> +??P50
  113. # [18:05] <kojiishi> zakim, ??P50 is me
  114. # [18:05] <Cathy> Present+ Cathy_Chan
  115. # [18:05] <Zakim> +kojiishi; got it
  116. # [18:07] <Zakim> +Bert
  117. # [18:07] <Zakim> + +1.415.920.aadd
  118. # [18:07] <Zakim> +Cathy
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  120. # [18:07] <plinss> zakim, aadd is fantasai
  121. # [18:07] <Zakim> +fantasai; got it
  122. # [18:08] <Zakim> + +1.408.636.aaee
  123. # [18:08] <smfr> Zakim, aaee is me
  124. # [18:08] <Zakim> +smfr; got it
  125. # [18:09] <fantasai> ScribeNick: fantasai
  126. # [18:09] <fantasai> plinss: Anything to add to agenda?
  127. # [18:09] * alexmog in arron's office
  128. # [18:09] <fantasai> glazou: We need to collect testimonials for CSS2.1
  129. # [18:10] <fantasai> glazou: Each member should ping their AC rep about that
  130. # [18:10] <fantasai> smfr: What's a testimonial?
  131. # [18:10] <fantasai> glazou: It's just one paragraph about how Apple is happy about the release of CSS2.1 and it's going to change the world and their strategy, etc.
  132. # [18:11] <fantasai> Topic: F2F meeting
  133. # [18:11] <fantasai> plinss: got an email from Koji this morning
  134. # [18:11] <glazou> kojiishi, your are VERY noisy
  135. # [18:11] <fantasai> koji: That's all the info I have.
  136. # [18:11] * Joins: bradk (bradk@99.7.175.117)
  137. # [18:12] * dbaron heard kojiishi just fine
  138. # [18:12] <fantasai> koji: If there are many concerns, we can look for locations in Osaka area which is safer
  139. # [18:12] <fantasai> plinss: Everyone read the email?
  140. # [18:12] <Zakim> +bradk
  141. # [18:12] <fantasai> glazou: Personally I prefer avoiding Japan at this time.
  142. # [18:12] <fantasai> jdaggett: Could you explain?
  143. # [18:13] <fantasai> glazou: First I have a veto from my family.
  144. # [18:13] <fantasai> glazou: Second, flights are chaotic at this time. E.g. Air France is diverting flights to Tokyo
  145. # [18:13] <fantasai> jdaggett: they're diverted to Osaka, though
  146. # [18:13] <fantasai> glazou: Lastly, we need to decide asap, otherwise my flight will be too expensive
  147. # [18:13] <fantasai> jdaggett: I have a feeling prices won't be going up
  148. # [18:14] <fantasai> glazou: I checked prices recently, and they're more expensive than they used to be
  149. # [18:14] <fantasai> glazou: at least from France
  150. # [18:14] <Zakim> +SteveZ
  151. # [18:14] <fantasai> sylvaing: There are a lot of people attending those meetings.
  152. # [18:14] <fantasai> sylvaing: I don't think it's fair to change the meeting because it will be more expensive for one person.
  153. # [18:14] <fantasai> sylvaing: We cannot predict airline prices, especially for Japan at this time.
  154. # [18:15] <fantasai> sylvaing: I don't understand why we need to make this decision today.
  155. # [18:15] <fantasai> jdaggett: I don't understand urgency. Sure better to decide quickly as possible, but not convinced it needs to be today.
  156. # [18:15] <fantasai> glazou: Because we're almost 60 days before the trip
  157. # [18:15] <fantasai> sylvaing: I always book my trips 30 days before
  158. # [18:15] <fantasai> glazou: You have a rich company behind you
  159. # [18:16] <fantasai> dbaron: Flight prices often go /down/ between 8wks and 4 wks. Not always.
  160. # [18:16] <Bert> (I'd be OK with Osaka or Kyoto. Offer of hosting at W3C/ERCIM in France also still stands. But please decide soon.)
  161. # [18:16] <fantasai> jdaggett: I would be interested in hearing from people who were originally coming to Japan and are now concerned.
  162. # [18:16] <fantasai> glazou: I am
  163. # [18:16] <fantasai> Bert: Me too. I'm concerned about Tokyo. Could go to Osaka or Kyoto.
  164. # [18:16] <fantasai> Steve: I'm concerned because I expected things to get better over this last week, and in fact they've gotten worse.
  165. # [18:17] <fantasai> Steve: So I haven't seen things getting better.
  166. # [18:17] <fantasai> sylvaing: Have you heard from the news, or from people actually there?
  167. # [18:17] <fantasai> sylvaing: I hear one thing from the news, but another from the people I know there.
  168. # [18:17] <fantasai> jdaggett: The actual radiation numbers are going down around the plant.
  169. # [18:18] <fantasai> jdaggett: No predictor of what could happen tomorrow, but there isn't actually a lot of stuff that's going right now that is an immediate concern for people living in Tokyo.
  170. # [18:18] <fantasai> jdaggett: I'd be concerned if I was living near the plant.
  171. # [18:18] <fantasai> jdaggett: But Tokyo is far enough away
  172. # [18:19] <fantasai> kojiishi: Not sure appropriate comparison, but Chernobyl escape zone was 100km, and Tokyo is more than 160km
  173. # [18:19] <Zakim> -glazou
  174. # [18:19] <fantasai> kojiishi: If you take Osaka, you have 500km more distance
  175. # [18:19] <fantasai> sylvaing: I'm fine with Tokyo, I'm fine with Osaka, I'm fine with Japan
  176. # [18:19] <Zakim> +??P1
  177. # [18:19] <kojiishi> s/160km/250km/
  178. # [18:19] <glazou> Zakim, ??P1 is me
  179. # [18:19] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
  180. # [18:19] <fantasai> sylvaing: I would like it if we could find a way to keep that workshop going for our Japanese friends to attend
  181. # [18:19] <fantasai> sylvaing: So if not in Japan, then somewhere nearby
  182. # [18:19] <fantasai> sylvaing: But I'm fine with Japan.
  183. # [18:20] <alexmog> vladivostok?
  184. # [18:20] <bradk> http://news.discovery.com/earth/japan-nuclear-reactors-worst-case-110329.html
  185. # [18:20] <fantasai> sylvaing: Wrt prices, I think the airfare might go up, but we're staying for awhile and hotel prices are likely to be very low.
  186. # [18:20] <fantasai> sylvaing cites case of his last trip
  187. # [18:21] <fantasai> jdaggett: But we need to outline a path to making a decision.
  188. # [18:21] <fantasai> jdaggett: i"m not comfortable with the idea of just deciding today
  189. # [18:21] <fantasai> jdaggett: But I think we need to set a scope for when the venue is defined
  190. # [18:21] <fantasai> jdaggett: Unfortunately Tab is not on call today
  191. # [18:21] <fantasai> jdaggett: And he was sponsor of venue
  192. # [18:21] <fantasai> jdaggett: Not sure from Koji's message that we have a solid meeting place there
  193. # [18:21] <fantasai> jdaggett: Google just has a small sales office in Osaka
  194. # [18:23] <fantasai> ...
  195. # [18:23] <fantasai> jdaggett: Tokyo would be a better place, there's much better accommodation etc.
  196. # [18:23] <kojiishi> http://www.consortium.or.jp/contents_detail.php?frmId=1608
  197. # [18:23] <fantasai> kojiishi: Current candidate is in Kyoto
  198. # [18:24] <fantasai> kojiishi: This is a candidate for the forum. Unfortunately the room is not available for June 4th, so we're looking for other places for the F2F
  199. # [18:24] <fantasai> kojiishi: Kyoto and Osaka are very close
  200. # [18:24] <fantasai> jdaggett: Japan has two electrical grids, and Osaka is in a different one from Tokyo
  201. # [18:24] <fantasai> jdaggett: The blackouts don't apply to Osaka
  202. # [18:25] * dbaron the 50Hz part of Japan and the 60Hz part of Japan?
  203. # [18:25] <fantasai> sylvaing: We should check with Tab about hosting situation
  204. # [18:27] * glazou trips to japan are still formally "not recommended" by US and France...
  205. # [18:27] <fantasai> fantasai: We could decide on Japan, and then figure out the venue later. Then people can book their flights now, and find their hotels later
  206. # [18:28] <fantasai> Steve: As long as someone is dedicated to sponsoring the venue, in case it costs something, then we're ok
  207. # [18:28] <plinss> zakim, who is noisy?
  208. # [18:28] <fantasai> kojiishi: Wrt rental offices, IC? group in Japan is willing to pay for that.
  209. # [18:28] <kojiishi> s/IC?/ICT/
  210. # [18:28] <Zakim> plinss, listening for 13 seconds I heard sound from the following: plinss (42%), fantasai (11%)
  211. # [18:28] <sylvaing> me glazou, US link ?
  212. # [18:28] <fantasai> Steve: Think we should spend 2 weeks to settle on the venue
  213. # [18:29] <fantasai> plinss: So, sounds like most people are ok with Osaka/Kyoto aside from glazou
  214. # [18:29] <glazou> sylvaing: state department
  215. # [18:29] <fantasai> plinss: I think 2 weeks is reasonable
  216. # [18:29] <fantasai> plinss: Meanwhile try to nail down a venue
  217. # [18:29] <fantasai> plinss: make a final call then
  218. # [18:29] <sylvaing> i'm there, i'm asking because i can't find what you're looking at
  219. # [18:29] <fantasai> Topic: CSS2.1
  220. # [18:29] <fantasai> plinss: Let's try to get this nailed down today.
  221. # [18:29] <plinss> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-archive/2011Mar/att-0238/last-call.htm
  222. # [18:30] * dbaron perhaps http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_5398.html ? (didn't read it yet)
  223. # [18:30] * Quits: glazou (glazou@82.247.96.19) (Client exited)
  224. # [18:30] <plinss> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-203
  225. # [18:30] * Joins: glazou (glazou@82.247.96.19)
  226. # [18:31] <fantasai> Bert: I agree with the proposal
  227. # [18:31] <Zakim> -jdaggett
  228. # [18:31] <plinss> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Mar/0567.html
  229. # [18:31] * sylvaing dbaron, reading it. not seeing anything about not traveling there yet
  230. # [18:31] <fantasai> Arron: fantasai and I spent a lot of time looking over with one of our developers here, and we all agree it's a viable solution here
  231. # [18:31] <fantasai> Arron: Text that was there previously seemed to be there for consistency with 8.3.1, and it just causes confusion in this section because it doesn't match exactly.
  232. # [18:32] * sylvaing "U.S. citizens should defer all travel to the evacuation zone around Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant, areas affected by the earthquake and tsunami and tourism and non-essential travel to the rest of Japan at this time."
  233. # [18:32] <fantasai> Arron: So removing that line about bottom border doesn't create a problem, and make spec more consistent with implementations and with what we wwant in the end, really
  234. # [18:32] <fantasai> dbaron: That was to prevent margins below the bottom of the element from influencing the hypothetical position
  235. # [18:34] <fantasai> fantasai: The rules in 8.3.1 introduce the bottom border in some cases, such as the one you're concerned about. Just not in all, so saying that here is inconsistent with 8.3.1
  236. # [18:34] <fantasai> RESOLVED: proposal accepted
  237. # [18:34] <Zakim> -glazou
  238. # [18:34] <plinss> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-179
  239. # [18:35] <Zakim> +??P12
  240. # [18:35] <glazou> Zakim, ??P12 is me
  241. # [18:35] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
  242. # [18:35] <fantasai> johnjan: We were confused and just wanted to make sure it was in fact closed
  243. # [18:35] <jdaggett> just to clarify the F2F location suggestion, I suggested *Kyoto* as a place with better accomodations, not Tokyo
  244. # [18:35] <fantasai> plinss: We have an objection here
  245. # [18:35] <dbaron> the second objection URL there belongs on issue 192
  246. # [18:35] * dbaron Zakim, who is on the phone?
  247. # [18:35] * Zakim sees on the phone: plinss, sylvaing, hober, stearns, duga, [Microsoft], [Microsoft.a], arno, David_Baron, kojiishi, Bert, fantasai, Cathy, smfr, bradk, SteveZ, glazou
  248. # [18:35] * Zakim [Microsoft] has Arron
  249. # [18:36] <Zakim> -fantasai
  250. # [18:38] <Zakim> +fantasai
  251. # [18:38] <fantasai> ?: Bert responded after that message with further edits
  252. # [18:38] <fantasai> +Anton Prowse
  253. # [18:39] <fantasai> Anton: What came up on IRC, the first URL on objection is the latest that was on the mailing list about this
  254. # [18:39] <fantasai> Anton summarizes issue.
  255. # [18:40] <fantasai> fantasai: I think Bert just edited that.
  256. # [18:40] <dbaron> we're looking at http://www.w3.org/Style/css2-updates/css2/visuren.html#anonymous-block-level ?
  257. # [18:40] <fantasai> Anton: In the copy I'm looking at it still says the same thing.
  258. # [18:40] <fantasai> Bert: I don't think you can see the actual editor's draft.
  259. # [18:41] <fantasai> "The P element contains a chunk (C1) of anonymous text followed by a block-level element followed by another chunk (C2) of anonymous text. The resulting boxes would be a block box representing the BODY, containing an anonymous block box around C1, the SPAN block box, and another anonymous block box around C2. "
  260. # [18:42] <fantasai> Anton: That looks right ot me
  261. # [18:42] <glazou> YAY :-)
  262. # [18:42] <glazou> GREEN
  263. # [18:42] <dbaron> yeah, http://www.w3.org/Style/Group/css2-src/visuren.html#anonymous-block-level and http://www.w3.org/Style/css2-updates/css2/visuren.html#anonymous-block-level differ on the "The resulting boxes"... sentence.
  264. # [18:42] <plinss> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css2.1#issue-192
  265. # [18:42] <plinss> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Mar/0402.html
  266. # [18:43] <fantasai> dbaron: I sent a response email based on the WG discussion there, and no longer even agreed with that discussion while I was writing things up. And now I've forgotten it all anyway.
  267. # [18:43] * fantasai bert, did you uploade the updated draft yet?
  268. # [18:43] * Bert the public draft is now the same as the internal verison.
  269. # [18:43] * fantasai yay
  270. # [18:44] <fantasai> fantasai: Didn't Bert have some proposed changes for this?
  271. # [18:44] * dbaron wonders why these are on the internal mailing list
  272. # [18:45] <fantasai> Anton's suggestions in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Mar/0402.html are relative to text that already changed a bit. Relative to the current text, I think he means the following two changes in 9.5 (Floats). Replace
  273. # [18:45] <fantasai> > If a shortened line box is too small to contain any content > after the float, then that content is shifted downward until > either it fits or there are no more floats present. Any > content in the current line before a floated box is reflowed > in the first available line on the other side of the float.
  274. # [18:45] <fantasai> by:
  275. # [18:45] <fantasai> | If a shortened line box is too small to contain any content | after the float without overflowing its containing block, | then that content is shifted downward until | either it fits or there are no more floats present. Any | content in the current line before a floated box is reflowed | in the same line on the other side of the float.
  276. # [18:45] <fantasai> i.e., add "without overflowing its containing block" and replace "first available" by "same."
  277. # [18:46] <fantasai> dbaron: Doesn't this introduce an inconsistency between start and end floats
  278. # [18:46] <fantasai> fantasai: So we should say "line box" instead of "containing block"
  279. # [18:47] <fantasai> Anton describes an RTL case
  280. # [18:47] <fantasai> Anton: You can't have inline content overflowing the line box, it gets bigger
  281. # [18:47] <fantasai> dbaron: No, the line box edges are determined by the containing block / float intrusions.
  282. # [18:48] <fantasai> Anton: Ok, if that's true, then for sure we should talk about overflowing the line box htere.
  283. # [18:48] <fantasai> dbaron: I want to find the context here. All three times we've discussed this I've missed the context
  284. # [18:48] <fantasai> dbaron: What seciton is this in?
  285. # [18:48] * Joins: Evan_ (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  286. # [18:48] <glazou> s/seciton/section
  287. # [18:49] <fantasai> Anton: We want "if the content fits", not "it fits"...
  288. # [18:50] <fantasai> Anton: As far as I understand is, you have your stack of line boxes, you might have floats present.
  289. # [18:50] <fantasai> Anton: You're trying to flow the inline boxes into the line box
  290. # [18:50] <Zakim> -glazou
  291. # [18:50] <fantasai> Anton: You only shift things if you can't fit any piece of that content next to the float
  292. # [18:50] <Zakim> +??P12
  293. # [18:50] <glazou> Zakim, ??P12 is me
  294. # [18:50] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
  295. # [18:50] <fantasai> Anton: The one characteristic that's different btw normal line box and the shortened line box is that content can't overflow it
  296. # [18:51] <fantasai> Anton: If it would, it moves downward
  297. # [18:51] <fantasai> dbaron: I think your original proposal to delete "further" is correct -- it's about whether *any* content fits in the shortened line box.
  298. # [18:51] <fantasai> dbaron: If content before the float doesn't fit, then the float positioning rules kick in to move the float.
  299. # [18:51] <dbaron> If a shortened line box is too small to contain any content, then the line box is shifted downward until either some content fits or there are no more floats present.
  300. # [18:52] <fantasai> Anton: You used rules 6-8 to explain this, [...]
  301. # [18:52] <fantasai> Anton: You can never have a previous box that is below the top of the float
  302. # [18:52] <fantasai> Anton: Previous content absolutely has to stay in the same line box. It might get shifted to the other side of the float, but never moves down.
  303. # [18:52] <fantasai> dbaron points to his proposal in IRC
  304. # [18:53] <fantasai> Anton: That looks perfect.
  305. # [18:53] <fantasai> Bert: I don't see any difference between any of these variants
  306. # [18:53] <fantasai> dbaron: Difference with what I typed is it has fewere occurances of "it", some of those "it"s were unclear. So I expanded all of them.
  307. # [18:54] <fantasai> Anton: Other difference is the original text says "first available box"
  308. # [18:54] <fantasai> Anton: My impression was that Bert's original concept of line boxes was you had a line box grid, a stack of perfectly stacked line boxes inside the containing block.
  309. # [18:54] <fantasai> Anton: While that's a nice concept, it's not consistent with the rest of the spec, and certainly not with implementations
  310. # [18:55] <fantasai> Anton: It's not filling content into a lined notepad
  311. # [18:55] <fantasai> Anton: The line boxes can be shifted themselves
  312. # [18:55] <fantasai> Anton: leaving a gap
  313. # [18:55] <fantasai> Anton: So rather than a stack of empty line boxes, you have a gap
  314. # [18:55] <fantasai> Anton: "first available" made sense in the original vision, but not anymore.
  315. # [18:56] <fantasai> Anton: (Wasn't even correct in original case, because content before the float wouldn't get flowed into multiple line boxes anyway.)
  316. # [18:57] <fantasai> Bert: Sounds right. But we still have to decide which version of the text to adopt
  317. # [18:57] <fantasai> Anton: What dbaron proposed on IRC looks correct.
  318. # [18:58] <Bert> (The line box not just moves down, it also gets wider...)
  319. # [18:58] <dbaron> If a shortened line box is too small to contain any content, then the line box is shifted downward (and its width recomputed) until either some content fits or there are no more floats present.
  320. # [18:58] * Joins: fantasai_ (fantasai@76.14.69.234)
  321. # [18:59] <fantasai_> Steve: That implies the shortned lined box is moved down, but when it moves down it's no longer shortened necessarily
  322. # [18:59] * Quits: fantasai (fantasai@69.162.163.148) (Quit: Lost terminal)
  323. # [18:59] * Joins: fantasai (fantasai@69.162.163.148)
  324. # [18:59] <fantasai_> dbaron: I added another proposal in IRC.
  325. # [19:00] <fantasai_> Anton: works for me. felt it was implicit, but equally correct what dbaron wrote there
  326. # [19:00] <fantasai_> plinss: Any objections?
  327. # [19:00] <fantasai_> RESOLVED: dbaron's latest proposal accepted
  328. # [19:00] <Zakim> -arno
  329. # [19:00] <fantasai_> dbaron: Did we resolve all the bits of the issue email?
  330. # [19:00] <fantasai_> Anton: We've solved both parts in one sentence.
  331. # [19:01] <fantasai_> dbaron and Anton discuss "first available"
  332. # [19:01] <fantasai_> Bert: "first available" is in the next sentence
  333. # [19:02] <fantasai_> dbaron: So we've agreed to replace 2 sentences with 1?
  334. # [19:02] <fantasai_> Anton double-checks
  335. # [19:02] * glazou needs to run at the top of the hour
  336. # [19:02] <fantasai_> Anton: I think dbaron's proposal combines those two sentences.
  337. # [19:03] <fantasai_> Anton: What it misses is the part about content before the float moving to the other side of the float
  338. # [19:03] * Quits: arno (arno@192.150.10.200) (Ping timeout)
  339. # [19:03] <fantasai_> dbaron: well, i was only trying to replace the first, hadn't gotten to the second
  340. # [19:03] <fantasai_> Anton: If we were going to replace the second sentence...
  341. # [19:04] * smfr has to go
  342. # [19:04] <dbaron> Issue 2 is the first sentence and ISsue 3 is the second sentence
  343. # [19:04] * Quits: smfr (smfr@173.228.90.67) (Quit: smfr)
  344. # [19:04] <fantasai> RRSAgent: pointer
  345. # [19:04] <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2011/03/30-css-irc#T17-01-10
  346. # [19:04] <Zakim> -smfr
  347. # [19:04] * glazou need to go, bye people
  348. # [19:04] <Zakim> -glazou
  349. # [19:05] * Joins: arno (arno@192.150.10.200)
  350. # [19:05] <fantasai> dbaron: do you want to replace 'first available line' to 'same line'?
  351. # [19:05] * Quits: glazou (glazou@82.247.96.19) (Quit: glazou)
  352. # [19:05] <fantasai> Anton: Yes, that makes sense there.
  353. # [19:05] <fantasai> plinss: Other thoughts on that change?
  354. # [19:05] <fantasai> Bert: Fine with that too
  355. # [19:05] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Second proposal also accepted
  356. # [19:05] <fantasai> plinss: A couple more items left. If people can stay, would be nice to get publication out today
  357. # [19:06] <fantasai> sylvaing: I can stay. When do you need testimonials?
  358. # [19:06] <fantasai> Bert: If we are lucky, then first available date we can issue them is May 31st
  359. # [19:06] <fantasai> Bert: So before May 31st
  360. # [19:06] <fantasai> Bert: a few days before that
  361. # [19:07] <Bert> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Mar/0637.html
  362. # [19:07] <fantasai> Bert: I propose we don't change anything now.
  363. # [19:09] <oyvind> ("the other side" in the float issue still doesn't make sense...)
  364. # [19:09] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  365. # [19:09] <johnjan> i have to go to another meeting...sorry.
  366. # [19:09] <antonp> @oyvind: i agree for rtl, but that was rejected by the WG
  367. # [19:10] <antonp> sorry, i mean for right floats in ltr
  368. # [19:10] <fantasai> Bert summarizes the email
  369. # [19:10] <dbaron> oyvind, It really only makes sense for floats on the start-side, I think.
  370. # [19:10] <oyvind> right
  371. # [19:11] <fantasai> dbaron and Bert discuss something that they thought was defined but apparently isn't
  372. # [19:12] <fantasai> dbaron: ok, let's just leave it
  373. # [19:12] * bradk has to go. Bye.
  374. # [19:12] <fantasai> Bert: Description of line-height property ...
  375. # [19:12] <Zakim> -bradk
  376. # [19:12] <fantasai> dbaron: Used doesn't mean it changes the answer
  377. # [19:13] <dbaron> that definitely had a :-) at the end
  378. # [19:13] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Mar/0623.html
  379. # [19:13] * Quits: bradk (bradk@99.7.175.117) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep)
  380. # [19:13] <fantasai> fantasai: Those edits seem correct to me
  381. # [19:13] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Mar/0277.html
  382. # [19:14] <fantasai> fantasai: Issue about why aren't we dropping :first-line and :first-letter
  383. # [19:15] <fantasai> fantasai: I think our answer is that it's in CSS1 and CSS3, so leaving it out of CSS2.1 doesn't make sense.
  384. # [19:15] <fantasai> dbaron: Although I wish we used text from an earlier draft of Selectors
  385. # [19:16] <fantasai> Arron: We have a good enough area of interop here, based on testcases.
  386. # [19:16] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Not dropping :first-line :first-letter from CSS2.1.
  387. # [19:16] <fantasai> dbaron would like to drop it, but not going there right now.
  388. # [19:17] <fantasai> Bert: we need an updated disposition of comments
  389. # [19:17] <fantasai> Arron: Already have it ready
  390. # [19:17] <fantasai> Bert: Implementation reports
  391. # [19:17] <fantasai> plinss: Have it, just need to write it up formally.
  392. # [19:17] <fantasai> Bert: Ok, then I have to update draft with what we decided today.
  393. # [19:17] <fantasai> plinss: I propose advancing 2.1 to PR
  394. # [19:17] <fantasai> plinss: Any objections?
  395. # [19:17] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Advance CSS2.1 to PR.
  396. # [19:18] * sylvaing oh man, no champagne in the house
  397. # [19:18] <fantasai> Anton: What's the plan for errata?
  398. # [19:18] <Zakim> -SteveZ
  399. # [19:18] <fantasai> Anton: Lots of issues that need errata'ing
  400. # [19:18] <fantasai> Anton: including contradictions in margin collapsing etc.
  401. # [19:18] <fantasai> plinss: Don't have a formal timeline
  402. # [19:18] <fantasai> yet
  403. # [19:18] <fantasai> plinss: There will always be issues, since it's such a long spec
  404. # [19:19] <fantasai> dbaron: Once we're at REC, it's easier to get to REC again. It combines LC and PR
  405. # [19:19] <fantasai> dbaron: and then we can publish an updated REC
  406. # [19:19] <dbaron> s/It combines/PER combines/
  407. # [19:19] <fantasai> Bert: Errata can be published any time. We can update the errata list anytime
  408. # [19:20] <Zakim> -David_Baron
  409. # [19:20] <Zakim> -hober
  410. # [19:20] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
  411. # [19:20] <fantasai> Meeting closed.
  412. # [19:20] <Zakim> -duga
  413. # [19:20] <Zakim> -sylvaing
  414. # [19:20] <Zakim> -kojiishi
  415. # [19:20] <Zakim> -stearns
  416. # [19:20] <Zakim> -plinss
  417. # [19:20] * Parts: duga (duga@74.125.59.129)
  418. # [19:20] <Zakim> -fantasai
  419. # [19:20] <Zakim> -Bert
  420. # [19:20] <Zakim> -Cathy
  421. # [19:20] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  422. # [19:20] <Zakim> Attendees were plinss, +1.415.738.aaaa, +1.206.324.aabb, jdaggett, hober, sylvaing, stearns, johnjan, [Microsoft], duga, Arron, arno, glazou, David_Baron, kojiishi, Bert,
  423. # [19:20] <Zakim> ... +1.415.920.aadd, Cathy, fantasai, +1.408.636.aaee, smfr, bradk, SteveZ
  424. # [19:20] <fantasai> arronei: did you update the DoC with all the relevant Verified lines?
  425. # [19:21] <fantasai> dbaron: So what happened with the definitions of :first-line / :first-letter?
  426. # [19:21] * Quits: johnjan (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Quit: Page closed)
  427. # [19:21] <dbaron> fantasai, can we discuss that sometime after noon?
  428. # [19:21] <fantasai> dbaron: sure
  429. # [19:21] * Quits: alexmog (alexmog@131.107.0.102) (Ping timeout)
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  431. # [19:23] * Quits: oyvind (oyvinds@213.236.208.22) (Quit: oyvind)
  432. # [19:25] * Quits: Cathy (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Quit: Page closed)
  433. # [19:32] <arronei> fantasai: yes I added the verified lines in the document
  434. # [19:33] * Quits: kojiishi (kojiishi@222.158.227.129) (Quit: Leaving...)
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  447. # [21:17] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  448. # [21:18] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.169)
  449. # [21:32] <fantasai> Minutes posted
  450. # [21:32] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Mar/0727.html
  451. # [21:41] <fantasai> Bert: edits checked for 192 and 203
  452. # [21:41] <fantasai> Bert: Is there a way to make the public editor's draft automatically sync to yours?
  453. # [21:42] <fantasai> Bert: we might want to do that so we don't have such out-of-sync problems in the future...
  454. # [21:42] <fantasai> it's kindof confusing to have two editor's drafts out-of-sync :)
  455. # [21:46] * Quits: Martijnc (Martijnc@81.242.128.42) (Quit: Martijnc)
  456. # [21:46] <Bert> Already sync'ed.
  457. # [21:48] * Quits: fantasai_ (fantasai@76.14.69.234) (Ping timeout)
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  463. # Session Close: Thu Mar 31 00:00:00 2011

The end :)