/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2011-05-04 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed May 04 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #css
  3. # [00:03] * fantasai thinks EAW=A is really annoying.
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  15. # [03:09] <fantasai> hi
  16. # [03:10] <fantasai> murakami, you can suggest to koji that e can call me now
  17. # [03:10] * fantasai is on the train
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  44. # [17:08] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/04-css-irc
  45. # [17:08] <plinss> zakim, this will be style
  46. # [17:08] <Zakim> ok, plinss; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 55 minutes
  47. # [17:08] <plinss> rrsagent, make logs public
  48. # [17:08] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, plinss
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  53. # [17:10] * Martijnc_ is now known as Martijnc
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  57. # [17:29] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
  58. # [17:29] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 34 minutes
  59. # [17:29] <glazou> rrsag
  60. # [17:29] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
  61. # [17:29] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
  62. # [17:54] * Joins: danielweck (dweck2@86.133.12.156)
  63. # [17:58] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
  64. # [17:59] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
  65. # [17:59] <jdaggett> zakim, who is on the phone?
  66. # [17:59] <Zakim> On the phone I see [IPcaller]
  67. # [17:59] <Zakim> +??P1
  68. # [17:59] <jdaggett> zakim, ipcaller is me
  69. # [17:59] <Zakim> +jdaggett; got it
  70. # [17:59] <glazou> Zakim, ??P1 is me
  71. # [17:59] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
  72. # [17:59] <Zakim> +plinss
  73. # [18:00] <jdaggett> probably me, i'm on skype...
  74. # [18:00] <Zakim> +??P35
  75. # [18:00] <jdaggett> nope
  76. # [18:00] * Joins: johnjan (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  77. # [18:00] <jdaggett> i'm muted
  78. # [18:01] <Zakim> -glazou
  79. # [18:01] <danielweck> Zakim, ??P35 is me
  80. # [18:01] <Zakim> +danielweck; got it
  81. # [18:01] * Joins: dsinger_ (dsinger@67.218.109.218)
  82. # [18:01] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  83. # [18:01] <johnjan> zakim, microsoft is johnjan
  84. # [18:01] <Zakim> +johnjan; got it
  85. # [18:01] <Zakim> +??P37
  86. # [18:02] <glazou> Zakim, ??P37 is me
  87. # [18:02] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
  88. # [18:02] * Joins: stearns (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  89. # [18:02] <Zakim> +[Apple]
  90. # [18:02] * Joins: sylvaing (sylvaing@131.107.0.101)
  91. # [18:02] <Zakim> +dsinger
  92. # [18:02] * dsinger_ zakim, mute dsinger
  93. # [18:02] * Zakim dsinger should now be muted
  94. # [18:02] <hober> Zakim, Apple has me
  95. # [18:02] <Zakim> +hober; got it
  96. # [18:02] <Zakim> +fantasai
  97. # [18:02] <Zakim> -dsinger
  98. # [18:02] <jdaggett> wow, noise city...
  99. # [18:02] <Zakim> + +1.206.675.aaaa
  100. # [18:02] * dsinger_ sod AT&T
  101. # [18:03] <glazou> Zakim, mute fantasai
  102. # [18:03] <Zakim> fantasai should now be muted
  103. # [18:03] * Joins: oyvind (oyvinds@213.236.208.22)
  104. # [18:03] <Zakim> +dsinger
  105. # [18:03] <stearns> zakim, aaaa is me
  106. # [18:03] <Zakim> +stearns; got it
  107. # [18:03] * dsinger_ zakim, mute dsinger
  108. # [18:03] * Zakim dsinger should now be muted
  109. # [18:03] * Joins: smfr (smfr@17.203.14.12)
  110. # [18:03] <jdaggett> wee, good conversations ahead...
  111. # [18:03] * dsinger_ telepathy rules!
  112. # [18:03] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  113. # [18:03] <arronei_> zakim, microsoft has me
  114. # [18:03] <Zakim> +arronei_; got it
  115. # [18:04] * dsinger_ zakim, mute absolutely everything
  116. # [18:04] * Zakim I don't understand 'mute absolutely everything', dsinger_
  117. # [18:04] <jdaggett> glazou: btw, i'll ask around about the question you asked me next week
  118. # [18:04] <Zakim> + +47.21.65.aabb
  119. # [18:04] <Zakim> + +1.408.636.aacc
  120. # [18:04] <jdaggett> glazou: it's golden week in japan
  121. # [18:04] <jdaggett> yeah
  122. # [18:04] <jdaggett> ok, great
  123. # [18:04] <smfr> Zakim, aacc is me
  124. # [18:04] <Zakim> +smfr; got it
  125. # [18:05] <jdaggett> so he wasn't working on the css3 text spec
  126. # [18:05] <jdaggett> dear, dear
  127. # [18:05] * Joins: howcome (howcome@80.203.19.137)
  128. # [18:05] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  129. # [18:05] <Zakim> + +1.650.618.aadd
  130. # [18:05] * Joins: fantasai2 (yaaic@208.54.5.72)
  131. # [18:05] <sylvaing> Zakim, [Microsoft.a] has sylvaing
  132. # [18:05] <Zakim> +sylvaing; got it
  133. # [18:05] <glazou> Zakim, who is on the phone?
  134. # [18:05] <Zakim> On the phone I see jdaggett, plinss, danielweck, johnjan, glazou, [Apple], fantasai (muted), stearns, dsinger (muted), [Microsoft], +47.21.65.aabb, smfr, [Microsoft.a],
  135. # [18:05] * dbaron Zakim, aadd is dbaron
  136. # [18:05] <Zakim> ... +1.650.618.aadd
  137. # [18:06] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has arronei_
  138. # [18:06] * Joins: arno1 (arno@192.150.10.201)
  139. # [18:06] <Zakim> [Apple] has hober
  140. # [18:06] <Zakim> [Microsoft.a] has sylvaing
  141. # [18:06] * Quits: arno1 (arno@192.150.10.201) (Client exited)
  142. # [18:06] * Zakim +dbaron; got it
  143. # [18:06] <jdaggett> zakim, aabb is howcome
  144. # [18:06] <Zakim> +howcome; got it
  145. # [18:06] * dsinger_ don't confuse aadd and aabb
  146. # [18:06] <glazou> Zakim, aabb is howcome
  147. # [18:06] <Zakim> sorry, glazou, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
  148. # [18:07] <jdaggett> must be a bad week for the semantic web
  149. # [18:07] * sylvaing is impressed that dbaron remembers when people recognize his phone number
  150. # [18:07] <Zakim> +SteveZ
  151. # [18:07] * dbaron when *bots* recognize my phone number :-)
  152. # [18:07] * glazou waits for "or good afternoon" :-)
  153. # [18:07] * sylvaing dbaron, even better :)
  154. # [18:08] * Joins: bradk (bradk@99.7.175.117)
  155. # [18:08] * Quits: arno (arno@192.150.10.200) (Ping timeout)
  156. # [18:08] <danielweck> http://www.w3.org/2006/tools/wiki/Zakim_Tips
  157. # [18:08] <dbaron> http://www.w3.org/1998/12/bridge/info/name.php3
  158. # [18:08] <Zakim> + +1.650.275.aaee
  159. # [18:08] * Joins: arno (arno@192.150.10.201)
  160. # [18:08] * Quits: fantasai2 (yaaic@208.54.5.72) (Ping timeout)
  161. # [18:09] * dbaron Zakim, aaee is bradk
  162. # [18:09] * Zakim +bradk; got it
  163. # [18:09] <jdaggett> zakim, aaee is brad
  164. # [18:09] <Zakim> sorry, jdaggett, I do not recognize a party named 'aaee'
  165. # [18:09] * dsinger_ zakim caches for a while, and between the web site and the database there is a manual step
  166. # [18:09] <sylvaing> scribenick: sylvaing
  167. # [18:09] <Zakim> -bradk
  168. # [18:09] <sylvaing> glazou: extra agenda items ?
  169. # [18:10] * bradk got dropped
  170. # [18:10] <sylvaing> jdaggett: I'd like to take over editing of the line layout spec
  171. # [18:10] <sylvaing> jdaggett: and an update on the charter if possible
  172. # [18:10] <Zakim> +bradk
  173. # [18:10] <sylvaing> TOPIC: CSSWG Charter
  174. # [18:11] <sylvaing> jdaggett: looking at the draft charter, the line grid spec ended on the charter as a medium priority spec even though we haven't discussed this
  175. # [18:11] <sylvaing> jdaggett: i'm not sure it should be a separate spec vs. being part of line layout. there seems to be a lot of overlap. why is it in the charter and how did it end up on the status page ?
  176. # [18:12] * dbaron Zakim, who is on the phone?
  177. # [18:12] * Zakim sees on the phone: jdaggett, plinss, danielweck, johnjan, glazou, [Apple], fantasai (muted), stearns, dsinger (muted), [Microsoft], howcome, smfr, [Microsoft.a], dbaron, SteveZ,
  178. # [18:12] <sylvaing> szilles: I believe it was discussed in the context of line alignment across columns. and layout for east asian languages
  179. # [18:12] * Zakim ... bradk
  180. # [18:12] * Zakim [Microsoft] has arronei_
  181. # [18:12] * Zakim [Apple] has hober
  182. # [18:12] * Zakim [Microsoft.a] has sylvaing
  183. # [18:12] <sylvaing> jdaggett: sure but when did we agree to make it part of the charter ?
  184. # [18:12] * dbaron Zakim, unmute fantasai
  185. # [18:12] * Zakim fantasai should no longer be muted
  186. # [18:13] <sylvaing> jdaggett: I don't think it warrants a separate spec.
  187. # [18:13] <sylvaing> szilles: for the sake of making progress it may be easier to list them as they are now
  188. # [18:13] <sylvaing> glazou: if it's on the charter we can work on it in the course of the charter
  189. # [18:14] <sylvaing> jdaggett: it is medium priority and the decision to make it so is unclear
  190. # [18:14] <dsinger_> This is a draft charter for discussion,right? And now we are discussing it.
  191. # [18:15] <sylvaing> szilles: the criteria for medium priority is a champion to push it forward. And Koji is the champion
  192. # [18:15] <Zakim> -dsinger
  193. # [18:15] <dsinger_> Anyone can propose into the DRAFT
  194. # [18:16] * dsinger_ hello AT&T
  195. # [18:16] <Zakim> +FabGandon
  196. # [18:16] <sylvaing> (agreement to wait for Chris Lilley)
  197. # [18:16] <sylvaing> glazou: what else about the charter ?
  198. # [18:16] * Bert sorry for being late. Had some business to finish.
  199. # [18:16] <glazou> Bert, you're listed by Zakim as FabGandon ?!?
  200. # [18:17] * dsinger_ zakim, mute dsinger
  201. # [18:17] * Zakim sorry, dsinger_, I do not know which phone connection belongs to dsinger
  202. # [18:17] <sylvaing> howcome: I'm championing GCPM so should it be medium ?
  203. # [18:17] <Zakim> +dsinger
  204. # [18:17] * Bert zakim, fabgandon is me
  205. # [18:17] * Zakim +Bert; got it
  206. # [18:17] * dsinger_ zakim, mute dsinger
  207. # [18:17] * Zakim dsinger should now be muted
  208. # [18:17] <sylvaing> szilles: I think it also needs to get to LC or CR in the period
  209. # [18:17] <sylvaing> fantasai: we also used to require implementors working on it
  210. # [18:18] <sylvaing> szilles: that is a reasonable criteria for High Priority
  211. # [18:18] * Bert doesn't understand what is going on with our phones (or with Zakim). Yesterday I was Alexandra...
  212. # [18:18] <sylvaing> szilles: should we poll vendors on implementation interest ?
  213. # [18:18] * glazou lol Bert
  214. # [18:18] <sylvaing> plinss: we did a private poll last night. it could be helpful to update the data we collected last time
  215. # [18:18] <plinss> s/night/time/
  216. # [18:19] * dsinger_ bert should come to the identity workshop, he is clearly having trouble
  217. # [18:19] <sylvaing> glazou: we should stabilize the list and then run the poll
  218. # [18:20] <sylvaing> howcome: if those specs expected to reach PR are high priority then css3-multicol should be High.
  219. # [18:20] <Zakim> +??P13
  220. # [18:20] <kojiishi> zakim, ??p13 is me
  221. # [18:20] <Zakim> +kojiishi; got it
  222. # [18:21] <glazou> http://www.w3.org/2010/09/CSSWG/charter.html
  223. # [18:21] <sylvaing> howcome: everything being in scope I'm not sure we can read much in the hi/med/low ranking
  224. # [18:21] <dsinger_> We ought to prioritize staff, wg, f2f time etc. On the priorities
  225. # [18:21] <Bert> (I'm looking at the same as glazou)
  226. # [18:22] <sylvaing> glazou: taking the hi pri documents to CR is not the hard part. moving test suites along for them all is the larger work item
  227. # [18:24] <sylvaing> glazou: let's continue this discussion when Chris is present.
  228. # [18:25] <sylvaing> szilles: with the exception of jdaggett's and howcome's comment, does anybody on the call think something is missing or shouldn't be there ?
  229. # [18:26] <sylvaing> szilles: I thought ChrisL believed the draft was ready to go in front of the AC membership in two weeks so we should at least identify obvious bugs without waiting for ChrisL
  230. # [18:26] <sylvaing> glazou: my only concern is the number of documents in high-priority. are we creating an expectation of achieving PR for everything in high priority ?
  231. # [18:27] <sylvaing> szilles: there is no harm in having fewer things in high priority and exceeding expectations
  232. # [18:27] <sylvaing> glazou: yes
  233. # [18:27] <sylvaing> szilles: any good candidates to move from high to medium ?
  234. # [18:27] * Quits: dsinger_ (dsinger@67.218.109.218) (Ping timeout)
  235. # [18:28] <sylvaing> glazou: this is something where poll data would be useful input since browser vendors commitment to implement and submit testcases is key
  236. # [18:28] * Joins: dsinger (dsinger@17.197.32.11)
  237. # [18:28] <dbaron> Zakim, mute fantasai
  238. # [18:28] <Zakim> fantasai should now be muted
  239. # [18:28] <jdaggett> somebody is talking in the toilet
  240. # [18:29] <dbaron> Zakim, unmute fantasai
  241. # [18:29] <Zakim> fantasai should no longer be muted
  242. # [18:29] <dbaron> Zakim, who is noisy?
  243. # [18:29] <Zakim> dbaron, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: johnjan (13%), Bert (17%), SteveZ (72%), glazou (46%), [Microsoft.a] (13%)
  244. # [18:29] <Zakim> +[Apple.a]
  245. # [18:29] <dsinger> zakim, [apple] has dsinger
  246. # [18:29] <Zakim> +dsinger; got it
  247. # [18:29] <Zakim> -dsinger
  248. # [18:30] <Zakim> -danielweck
  249. # [18:30] <Zakim> +??P5
  250. # [18:30] <dbaron> I think it may be a good idea... but I'd sort of like to think about it... and perhaps try it to see how it goes.
  251. # [18:30] <danielweck> Zakim, ??P5 is me
  252. # [18:30] <Zakim> +danielweck; got it
  253. # [18:30] <sylvaing> dbaron, agree. something we should pilot
  254. # [18:31] <dbaron> (it == requiring test suite submission for dropping prefixes)
  255. # [18:31] <sylvaing> TOPIC: publishing updates to css3-lists and css3-images
  256. # [18:31] <sylvaing> fantasai: these are request from Tab. I'm in support.
  257. # [18:32] <sylvaing> fantasai: for lists, we should resolve outstanding issues and publish
  258. # [18:32] <sylvaing> glazou: css3-images. any objection to publishing a new draft ?
  259. # [18:32] <smfr> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-images/
  260. # [18:32] <sylvaing> dbaron: this draft seems to get more features
  261. # [18:33] <dbaron> dbaron: was originally something we were going to get out quickly, but seems to be growing more features, which makes that harder
  262. # [18:33] <sylvaing> I'd like to move gradients forward in level 3; the rest in level 4
  263. # [18:33] <sylvaing> fantasai: one of the items was the image annotation which we moved out from backgrounds & borders.
  264. # [18:34] <sylvaing> fantasai: we have implementation of object-fit et al. but under other names. these are implemented but not in browsers
  265. # [18:34] <dbaron> dbaron: now I'm a little less scared after reading through the TOC more closely
  266. # [18:34] <sylvaing> glazou: should we extract the parts that are ready for LC/CR ?
  267. # [18:35] <sylvaing> (some agreement to thin Level 3 and move the rest to Level 4 WD)
  268. # [18:35] <dbaron> I think cross-fade() is also wrong -- using the wrong definition in terms of porter-duff.
  269. # [18:35] <sylvaing> glazou: it'd be better to do these edits before republishing
  270. # [18:36] <sylvaing> fantasai: cutting features is easy as long as we have WG agreement on what to keep/what to drop
  271. # [18:36] <sylvaing> fantasai: I can do the edits while Tab is away
  272. # [18:37] <sylvaing> glazou: I suggest we move this discussion to the mailing list so we conclude on the cuts at the next telcon
  273. # [18:37] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Apr/0764.html
  274. # [18:37] <smfr> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-lists/
  275. # [18:37] <fantasai> ACTION: fantasai start mailing list discussion on trimming css3-images
  276. # [18:37] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  277. # [18:37] * RRSAgent records action 1
  278. # [18:37] <trackbot> Created ACTION-320 - Start mailing list discussion on trimming css3-images [on Elika Etemad - due 2011-05-11].
  279. # [18:37] * sylvaing thanks Elika :)
  280. # [18:38] <sylvaing> jdaggett: I think it would be helpful if Tab were here to decide on what list items are to be edited out
  281. # [18:39] <sylvaing> fantasai: for complex counter style, we should define Chinese ideographic because it's been defined and implemented before. EPUB needs it
  282. # [18:39] <sylvaing> glazou: are we OK with publishing now ?
  283. # [18:40] * Joins: nimbupani (Adium@64.141.94.228)
  284. # [18:40] <sylvaing> fantasai: there was discussion about the longhand style for ideographic counters up to large numbers. this has never been published and I'd like to at least have it as an appendix so we can refer to it later
  285. # [18:40] * Parts: nimbupani (Adium@64.141.94.228)
  286. # [18:41] <sylvaing> fantasai: it'd be an informative appendix today, we don't lose this info and we still have the option of making it normative in the future
  287. # [18:41] <sylvaing> fantasai: ...so the spec can limit itself to a 10k range but we don't lose the correct information for ranges beyond that
  288. # [18:42] <dsinger> and indeed, is someone wants to implement something that is robust into the trillions, they should be able to
  289. # [18:42] <dsinger> s/is someone/if someone/
  290. # [18:42] <sylvaing> howcome: I think there is merit in documenting this. I'm not sure it needs to be in the WD.
  291. # [18:43] <sylvaing> jdaggett: numbering systems are complex. I think the features need to target use-cases.
  292. # [18:43] <sylvaing> fantasai: my concern is that we have published definitions that were wrong
  293. # [18:44] <dsinger> "Note: this algorithm truncates at 10,000; previous CSS publications went to a higher limit but had errors in the algorithms"
  294. # [18:44] <sylvaing> glazou: I propose to publish this WD as-is
  295. # [18:44] <sylvaing> jdaggett: sounds fine
  296. # [18:45] <sylvaing> No objections
  297. # [18:45] <sylvaing> RESOLVED: publish css3-lists WD
  298. # [18:46] * Quits: Ms2ger (Ms2ger@91.181.60.227) (Ping timeout)
  299. # [18:47] <sylvaing> szilles: when we decide to publish a WD, we should also think of people who do not follow www-style on a daily basis
  300. # [18:47] <fantasai> Steve: Publishing WDs is so that people who aren't following the mailing list daily can keep up with what's happening.
  301. # [18:48] <sylvaing> TOPIC: Line Layout module editor
  302. # [18:48] <sylvaing> jdaggett: I would like to take that up as css3-fonts is completed
  303. # [18:48] <sylvaing> jdaggett: dbaron is the current editor and I'd work with him to get his pending edits in and take it from there
  304. # [18:49] <sylvaing> szilles: I would like to be considered as a co-editor.
  305. # [18:49] <sylvaing> jdaggett: I'm fine with that
  306. # [18:49] <sylvaing> RESOLVED: jdaggett,szilles editors of Line Layout
  307. # [18:49] <sylvaing> TOPIC: Kyoto F2F - agenda items
  308. # [18:50] <sylvaing> szilles: since we have the workshop the day before, i'd like items discussed in the workshop to being our f2f agenda
  309. # [18:51] <sylvaing> szilles: so that some attendees of the workshop can easily attend both
  310. # [18:51] <sylvaing> szilles: I thought the discussions of css3-text and css3-writing-modes would be relevant to the workshop. any other ?
  311. # [18:51] <sylvaing> fantasai: these are the main ones
  312. # [18:51] <sylvaing> szilles: maybe Line Grid as well.
  313. # [18:51] <sylvaing> szilles: I would like to have a discussion of Regions and Grid Layout
  314. # [18:52] * Parts: howcome (howcome@80.203.19.137)
  315. # [18:52] <sylvaing> glazou: everyone, please gather agenda items for Kyoto
  316. # [18:52] <sylvaing> TOPIC: CSS Snapshot publication
  317. # [18:52] <sylvaing> fantasai: also our handling of prefixing which is defined in the snapshot
  318. # [18:53] <fantasai> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-2010/#experimental
  319. # [18:53] <Zakim> -danielweck
  320. # [18:53] <Zakim> +??P5
  321. # [18:53] <danielweck> Zakim, ??P5 is me
  322. # [18:53] <Zakim> +danielweck; got it
  323. # [18:54] <sylvaing> fantasai: our previous discussion was to clarify that section.
  324. # [18:54] <sylvaing> sylvaing: I thought dbaron wanted to think about it
  325. # [18:54] <sylvaing> dbaron: I think I'm fine with publishing
  326. # [18:54] <sylvaing> smfr: I think this is fine
  327. # [18:54] <sylvaing> howcome: no objection
  328. # [18:55] <sylvaing> szilles: i'm ok
  329. # [18:55] <Zakim> -bradk
  330. # [18:55] * bradk dropped again. arrgh.
  331. # [18:56] <sylvaing> dbaron describes a possible exception to the rule
  332. # [18:57] <dbaron> dbaron: I think we need some sort of exception for features that other browsers have already shipped unprefixed (e.g., 'text-overflow')
  333. # [18:57] <sylvaing> fantasai: yes, the CSSWG may allow certain features to be unprefixed for legacy reasons
  334. # [18:57] <sylvaing> szilles: I think it would be better for the WG to grant the exception
  335. # [18:57] <Zakim> +bradk
  336. # [18:58] * Quits: arno (arno@192.150.10.201) (Quit: Leaving.)
  337. # [18:59] <sylvaing> dbaron: maybe we can note this as an issue for this publication
  338. # [18:59] <sylvaing> no objections
  339. # [18:59] <sylvaing> RESOLVED: release the document once this issue has been noted
  340. # [18:59] <sylvaing> TOPIC: Logo
  341. # [18:59] <glazou> http://daniel.weck.free.fr/CSS-Logo/
  342. # [18:59] * Joins: arno (arno@192.150.10.201)
  343. # [18:59] <sylvaing> howcome: i like it
  344. # [19:00] <sylvaing> glazou: i like it too
  345. # [19:00] <fantasai> howcome and sylvain like the historic connection to the old logo
  346. # [19:00] <sylvaing> smfr: it looks 3d so i like it
  347. # [19:00] <fantasai> smfr: It looks 3D, so I like it :)
  348. # [19:01] <jdaggett> not a huge fan of gill sans though....
  349. # [19:01] <Zakim> -bradk
  350. # [19:01] * sylvaing just got the fear of his life. window cleaner rappealing down the building.
  351. # [19:01] <Zakim> -SteveZ
  352. # [19:01] <bradk> I'm not terribly excited about it. Why 3 boxes? Something about the box model?
  353. # [19:02] <sylvaing> glazou: thanks a lot to daniel for contributing this logo
  354. # [19:02] <sylvaing> plinss: i like it to but we were asked for a design brief
  355. # [19:02] * bradk dropped again, BTW, so can't hear call any more
  356. # [19:02] <sylvaing> glazou: a proposal can't hurt
  357. # [19:02] <sylvaing> plinss: I'd like to capture the intent of what we're going for
  358. # [19:02] <sylvaing> plinss: i.e. 'this is what we want out of a logo and this is a proposal'
  359. # [19:03] <bradk> I'm also tired of Gill Sans
  360. # [19:03] <Zakim> -howcome
  361. # [19:03] <sylvaing> Bert: so who will produce a design brief ?
  362. # [19:04] <sylvaing> danielweck: I wrote my own. maybe we can just improve on that
  363. # [19:04] <sylvaing> fantasai volunteers bradk...
  364. # [19:04] <danielweck> CSS3 Speech
  365. # [19:04] <danielweck> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Apr/0746.html
  366. # [19:04] <bradk> gee thanks.
  367. # [19:04] <danielweck> phonemes
  368. # [19:04] <sylvaing> TOPIC: request to drop phonemes from css3-speech
  369. # [19:04] <danielweck> http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-speech/#phonemes
  370. # [19:04] <Zakim> -johnjan
  371. # [19:05] <bradk> It's 10:00
  372. # [19:05] <glazou> bradk: we're just a little bit over time
  373. # [19:05] <sylvaing> danielweck: the first link explains the current situation. there is a consensus that the phonemes property in the current css3 draft breaks the separation of content and presentation
  374. # [19:06] <Zakim> -jdaggett
  375. # [19:06] <sylvaing> danielweck: i also argue that EPUB will drive this issue forward using an SSML-based solution.
  376. # [19:06] <sylvaing> glazou: so you argue this is not part of css3-speech because it'll be defined elsewhere
  377. # [19:06] <sylvaing> danielweck: right. and also that this is more likely to be part of HTML given an EPUB solution
  378. # [19:07] <Bert> (I once proposed: 'phoneme-map: "ape" = \676\324\486, "bar" = \9084\7854\78=4' which picks whatever string actually occurs in the text.)
  379. # [19:07] <sylvaing> glazou: i suggest a note be included to explain this removal
  380. # [19:07] <bradk> As far as the logo goes, I don't have anything better in mind, and I thank Daniel for his work. I'd like to see us agree on a design brief and see something grow from that, starting with multiple sketches in order to define the direction for further tightening.
  381. # [19:07] <sylvaing> danielweck: that's fine with me
  382. # [19:07] * sylvaing can't hear Bert
  383. # [19:09] <bradk> Usually when designing a logo, there is more than one round of sketches and more than one week after the first round in order to arrive at a final logo.
  384. # [19:09] * smfr has to go
  385. # [19:09] <Zakim> -smfr
  386. # [19:10] <Bert> Peter's is indeed one possible implementation of my principle.
  387. # [19:11] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  388. # [19:11] <Zakim> -dbaron
  389. # [19:11] <Zakim> -danielweck
  390. # [19:11] <Zakim> -glazou
  391. # [19:11] <Zakim> -[Apple]
  392. # [19:11] <Zakim> -plinss
  393. # [19:11] <sylvaing> RESOLVED: remove phonemes property; include note to explain removal
  394. # [19:11] <Zakim> -[Apple.a]
  395. # [19:11] <Zakim> -kojiishi
  396. # [19:11] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
  397. # [19:11] <Zakim> -stearns
  398. # [19:11] <Zakim> -Bert
  399. # [19:11] * Quits: glazou (glazou@82.247.96.19) (Quit: glazou)
  400. # [19:11] <Zakim> -fantasai
  401. # [19:11] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  402. # [19:12] <Zakim> Attendees were jdaggett, glazou, plinss, danielweck, johnjan, dsinger, hober, fantasai, +1.206.675.aaaa, stearns, arronei_, +47.21.65.aabb, +1.408.636.aacc, smfr, [Microsoft],
  403. # [19:12] <Zakim> ... +1.650.618.aadd, sylvaing, dbaron, howcome, SteveZ, +1.650.275.aaee, bradk, Bert, kojiishi, [Apple]
  404. # [19:12] <fantasai> bradk: I think the proposal was for you to draw up the design briefl
  405. # [19:12] <fantasai> bradk: not to design the logo
  406. # [19:14] <bradk> Ah. I could probably do that if I can find time. Maybe a draft to see if we all agree. I pretty much hate writing up design briefs, but I could probably knuckle down and come up with something.
  407. # [19:14] * fantasai has no clue how to come up with a design brief
  408. # [19:15] <fantasai> Working backwards from the existing logos, I'd say
  409. # [19:15] <fantasai> - Connection to the previous logo seems important to CSSWG
  410. # [19:15] <fantasai> - Sense of "cascading"
  411. # [19:15] * Quits: johnjan (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Quit: Page closed)
  412. # [19:15] <fantasai> - Sense of building something
  413. # [19:17] * Joins: howcome (howcome@80.203.19.137)
  414. # [19:18] * Quits: oyvind (oyvinds@213.236.208.22) (Quit: oyvind)
  415. # [19:18] * Quits: stearns (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Quit: Page closed)
  416. # [19:25] * Joins: Ms2ger (Ms2ger@91.181.60.227)
  417. # [19:26] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@173.228.28.218) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  418. # [19:30] * Quits: smfr (smfr@17.203.14.12) (Client exited)
  419. # [19:31] * Quits: kojiishi (kojiishi@222.158.227.129) (Quit: Leaving...)
  420. # [19:33] * Quits: danielweck (dweck2@86.133.12.156) (Quit: danielweck)
  421. # [19:38] * Quits: jdaggett (jdaggett@118.243.227.145) (Quit: jdaggett)
  422. # [19:39] <plinss> - modular components building on one another
  423. # [19:40] <plinss> - 3d logo vs 2d logo - more modern feel, impression of evolution from prior logo
  424. # [19:40] <plinss> - brings a feeling of "style"
  425. # [19:43] * Quits: bradk (bradk@99.7.175.117) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep)
  426. # [19:44] <Ms2ger> Zakim, please excuse us
  427. # [19:44] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.169)
  428. # [19:45] <Ms2ger> RRSAgent, please excuse us
  429. # [19:45] <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/04-css-actions.rdf :
  430. # [19:45] <RRSAgent> ACTION: fantasai start mailing list discussion on trimming css3-images [1]
  431. # [19:45] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/05/04-css-irc#T16-34-11
  432. # [19:45] * Parts: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.169)
  433. # [19:45] <fantasai> you forgot to make minutes
  434. # [19:45] <fantasai> no?
  435. # [19:45] <fantasai> not that it matters much..
  436. # [19:45] * fantasai usually forgets to tell rrsagent anything
  437. # [19:57] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@63.245.220.240)
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  441. # [20:07] * Quits: arno (arno@192.150.10.201) (Client exited)
  442. # [20:13] * Quits: sylvaing (sylvaing@131.107.0.101) (Connection reset by peer)
  443. # [20:26] * Quits: dsinger (dsinger@17.197.32.11) (Quit: dsinger)
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  445. # [20:48] <fantasai> dbaron: were there properties other than 'word-wrap' and 'text-overflow' that need an exception?
  446. # [20:49] <dbaron> fantasai, hard to know... I don't necessarily know what in-CR but no-testsuite properties have been implemented by other browsers
  447. # [20:50] <fantasai> dbaron: no, I just mean pre-CR ones
  448. # [20:51] <dbaron> ime-mode is a third, I think
  449. # [20:51] <fantasai> ime-mode o_O?
  450. # [20:51] <dbaron> that might be it
  451. # [20:51] <dbaron> yep, ime-mode
  452. # [20:52] <fantasai> @_@
  453. # [20:53] <fantasai> should that go in the UI module then?
  454. # [20:56] * Parts: howcome (howcome@80.203.19.137)
  455. # [20:58] <dbaron> maybe
  456. # [21:01] <fantasai> file:///home/fantasai/w3c/csswg/css-2010/Overview.html#experimental
  457. # [21:02] <fantasai> er
  458. # [21:02] <fantasai> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-2010/#experimental
  459. # [21:02] <fantasai> dbaron: How's that?
  460. # [21:02] <dbaron> hold on ... in a meeting
  461. # [21:02] <fantasai> np
  462. # [21:25] * Joins: howcome (howcome@80.203.19.137)
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  474. # [23:20] * Joins: nimbupani (Adium@24.18.47.160)
  475. # [23:20] * Parts: nimbupani (Adium@24.18.47.160)
  476. # [23:31] * Joins: fantasai2 (yaaic@208.54.5.58)
  477. # [23:33] <fantasai2> The ellipsis is rendered at the end edge of the remaining characters on the line according to the block container's ' direction' property.
  478. # [23:33] <fantasai2> Tantek: ^
  479. # [23:35] * Joins: tantek (tantek@63.245.220.240)
  480. # Session Close: Thu May 05 00:00:00 2011

The end :)