/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2011-05-18 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed May 18 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #css
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  32. # [15:12] <pikazu> 2on2 css off any
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  44. # [17:43] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/05/18-css-irc
  45. # [17:43] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
  46. # [17:43] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 21 minutes
  47. # [17:43] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
  48. # [17:43] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
  49. # [17:56] * Quits: arronei_ (arronei@131.107.0.74) (Quit: arronei_)
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  51. # [17:58] * Joins: stearns (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  52. # [17:58] <glazou> Zakim, code?
  53. # [17:58] <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), glazou
  54. # [17:59] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
  55. # [17:59] <Zakim> +stearns
  56. # [17:59] <Zakim> +plinss
  57. # [18:00] <Zakim> +??P33
  58. # [18:00] <glazou> Zakim, ?P33 is me
  59. # [18:00] <Zakim> sorry, glazou, I do not recognize a party named '?P33'
  60. # [18:00] <glazou> Zakim, ??P33 is me
  61. # [18:00] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
  62. # [18:00] <Zakim> + +1.415.290.aaaa
  63. # [18:01] <Zakim> -glazou
  64. # [18:01] <Zakim> +??P33
  65. # [18:01] <glazou> Zakim, ??P33 is me
  66. # [18:01] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
  67. # [18:02] <plinss> zakim, aaaa is fantasai
  68. # [18:02] <Zakim> +fantasai; got it
  69. # [18:02] * Joins: vhardy (vhardy@192.150.10.200)
  70. # [18:02] <glazou> Zakim, who is here?
  71. # [18:02] <Zakim> On the phone I see stearns, plinss, fantasai, glazou
  72. # [18:02] <Zakim> On IRC I see vhardy, stearns, arronei, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou, Martijnc, arno, kojiishi, unomi, szilles, shepazu, CSSWG_LogBot, karl, lhnz, krijnh, TabAtkins, hober, fantasai,
  73. # [18:02] <Zakim> ... plinss, Bert, Hixie, gsnedders, jgraham, trackbot
  74. # [18:02] <stearns> zakim, aaa is vhardy
  75. # [18:02] <Zakim> sorry, stearns, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'
  76. # [18:02] * Joins: smfr (smfr@17.203.14.12)
  77. # [18:02] <stearns> zakim, aaaa is vhardy
  78. # [18:02] <Zakim> sorry, stearns, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
  79. # [18:02] <glazou> Zakim, aaaa is vhardy
  80. # [18:02] <Zakim> sorry, glazou, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
  81. # [18:03] <plinss> zakim, fantasai is vhardy
  82. # [18:03] <Zakim> +vhardy; got it
  83. # [18:03] <plinss> zakim, who is here?
  84. # [18:03] <Zakim> On the phone I see stearns, plinss, vhardy, glazou
  85. # [18:03] <Zakim> On IRC I see smfr, vhardy, stearns, arronei, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou, Martijnc, arno, kojiishi, unomi, szilles, shepazu, CSSWG_LogBot, karl, lhnz, krijnh, TabAtkins, hober,
  86. # [18:03] <Zakim> ... fantasai, plinss, Bert, Hixie, gsnedders, jgraham, trackbot
  87. # [18:03] * Joins: oyvinds (oyvinds@84.215.20.246)
  88. # [18:03] <Zakim> +smfr
  89. # [18:04] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  90. # [18:04] <arronei> zakim, microsoft has me
  91. # [18:04] <Zakim> +arronei; got it
  92. # [18:04] <Zakim> +[Apple]
  93. # [18:04] <hober> Zakim, Apple has me
  94. # [18:04] <Zakim> +hober; got it
  95. # [18:04] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  96. # [18:04] * Joins: johnjan (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  97. # [18:05] <johnjan> zakim, microsoft has johnjan
  98. # [18:05] <Zakim> +johnjan; got it
  99. # [18:05] * Joins: bradk (bradk@99.7.175.117)
  100. # [18:07] <Zakim> +bradk
  101. # [18:07] <Zakim> + +1.415.920.aabb
  102. # [18:07] <glazou> Zakim, aabb is fantasai
  103. # [18:07] <Zakim> +fantasai; got it
  104. # [18:08] <Zakim> +??P11
  105. # [18:08] <kojiishi> zakim, ??p11 is me
  106. # [18:08] <Zakim> +kojiishi; got it
  107. # [18:08] <glazou> ScribeNick: vhardy
  108. # [18:08] <Zakim> -bradk
  109. # [18:08] * bradk dropped
  110. # [18:09] <TabAtkins> Last-minute regrets - in a meeting.
  111. # [18:09] <Zakim> + +1.415.832.aacc
  112. # [18:09] <glazou> Zakim, aacc is arronei
  113. # [18:09] <glazou> Zakim, aacc is arno
  114. # [18:09] <Zakim> +arronei; got it
  115. # [18:09] <Zakim> sorry, glazou, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
  116. # [18:09] <fantasai> is there an agenda?
  117. # [18:09] * Joins: murakami (murakami@118.154.209.3)
  118. # [18:10] <arno> Zakim, aacc is arno
  119. # [18:10] <Zakim> sorry, arno, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
  120. # [18:10] * Joins: howcome (howcome@80.203.19.137)
  121. # [18:10] <Zakim> +howcome
  122. # [18:10] <vhardy> glazou: The listserv at W3C has issues. I sent the agenda yesterday evening. It can take a ong time to see an email in your inbox.
  123. # [18:10] <vhardy> glazou: this is for W3C mailing lists in general, not just the CSS lists.
  124. # [18:11] <vhardy> arno: some of the email just seem to never make it to my inbox.
  125. # [18:11] * bradk is having phone problems
  126. # [18:11] <vhardy> glazou: this happened to me too.
  127. # [18:11] <vhardy> arno: yes, I do not see other people's email.
  128. # [18:11] <vhardy> glazou: other agenda items?
  129. # [18:11] <Zakim> +bradk
  130. # [18:12] <vhardy> vhardy: will we have a meeting next week?
  131. # [18:12] <vhardy> glazou: not sure, we have a chairing problem.
  132. # [18:12] <vhardy> fantasai: may be Bert can char?
  133. # [18:12] <vhardy> glazou; yes, I'lll try to find a replacement.
  134. # [18:12] <glazou> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/32061/css-ftf-2011-06
  135. # [18:13] <vhardy> glazou: please respond to the questionaire about the next F2F.
  136. # [18:13] <plinss> http://wiki.csswg.org/planning/japan-2011
  137. # [18:13] <vhardy> glazou: please also fill out the information about your flight and arrival/departure info.
  138. # [18:14] <vhardy> glazou: agenda items for Kyoto meeting. For now, we have CSS Regions/Exclusions, etc... (see above link).
  139. # [18:14] <vhardy> glazou: are there other items?
  140. # [18:14] <Zakim> -bradk
  141. # [18:15] <vhardy> Hakon: could we discuss the multi-col test suite?
  142. # [18:16] <Zakim> +bradk
  143. # [18:16] <vhardy> hakon: the test suite is a start.
  144. # [18:16] <vhardy> glazou: how complete is it?
  145. # [18:16] <vhardy> hakon: it is a bit short on functionality.
  146. # [18:16] <vhardy> hakon: we need more test cases for edge cases.
  147. # [18:17] <vhardy> hakon: we would like to reach about 200 tests.
  148. # [18:17] <vhardy> hakon: we currently have about 20.
  149. # [18:17] * Quits: howcome (howcome@80.203.19.137) (Ping timeout)
  150. # [18:17] <vhardy> hakon: I think Microsoft has between 50 and 100 tests.
  151. # [18:18] <vhardy> johnjan: It is Microsoft's intention to contribute the tests.
  152. # [18:19] <vhardy> glazou: other agenda items?
  153. # [18:19] <johnjan> we just want to make sure we're not going to submit a bunch of duplicates to the opera tests
  154. # [18:19] * Quits: smfr (smfr@17.203.14.12) (Client exited)
  155. # [18:19] <vhardy> glazou: anything else about Kyoto?
  156. # [18:19] * Joins: smfr (smfr@17.203.14.12)
  157. # [18:19] <vhardy> plinss: I'll be there a few days in advance.
  158. # [18:19] * Joins: alexmog (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  159. # [18:20] <vhardy> vhardy: the SVG WG will not meet in Kyoto.
  160. # [18:20] <vhardy> glazou: yes, we had a message from them.
  161. # [18:21] <vhardy> glazou: Cameron McCormak sent a message on May 12th. The SVG WG will reschedule the meeting likely late July in the US.
  162. # [18:21] <vhardy> glazou: next agenda item. CSS 2.1 review period ended yesterday.
  163. # [18:21] <vhardy> glazou: 23 answers. 21 are ok-go ahead. 2 are requesting changes.
  164. # [18:22] <vhardy> glazou: some of the changes sent by Mohamed are related to references.
  165. # [18:22] <vhardy> glazou: David from Mozilla had a comment about issue 225. Nokia mentioned it to. Saying we could add it to the document since it is resolved.
  166. # [18:23] <vhardy> glazou: if we have add the resolution to the document, it could delay things. I would propose to move as fast as possible.
  167. # [18:23] <vhardy> fantasai: Bert said the director could agree to make that change.
  168. # [18:23] <vhardy> glazou: I am worried about a technical change that is not just editorial.
  169. # [18:23] <vhardy> fantasai: I think the Director should make that decision.
  170. # [18:24] <vhardy> fantasai: nobody objects to the change.
  171. # [18:24] <vhardy> glazou: the Director could also be worried that not everybody reviewed the issue 225 resolution.
  172. # [18:25] <fantasai> fantasai: That should be the director's call.
  173. # [18:25] <vhardy> glazou: our responsibility as chairs is to decide on what we should recommend for the director.
  174. # [18:25] <vhardy> glazou: unfortunately, Bert is not on the call.
  175. # [18:25] <fantasai> fantasai: I don't think we should recommend against the chagne
  176. # [18:25] * Quits: shepazu (schepers@128.30.52.169) (Quit: shepazu)
  177. # [18:25] <fantasai> s/chagne/change/
  178. # [18:25] <vhardy> glazou: If we can make some of the changes Mohamed recommended.
  179. # [18:26] <vhardy> glazou: please remind your AC rep. about PR release about 2.1
  180. # [18:26] <glazou> http://wiki.csswg.org/planning/agenda
  181. # [18:26] <vhardy> glazou: let's move to other agenda items.
  182. # [18:27] <vhardy> vhardy: what do I need to do to prepare for WD publication.
  183. # [18:28] <vhardy> fantasai: talk to me and Bert off-line.
  184. # [18:28] <vhardy> vhardy: ok, will do.
  185. # [18:28] <vhardy> glazou: did you incorporate comments in the draft.
  186. # [18:28] <vhardy> vhardy: I am in the process to do that.
  187. # [18:29] <vhardy> glazou: we cannot make a decision to publish to WD because we do not have enough attendance in that call.
  188. # [18:29] <vhardy> glazou: I propose we wait until next week if we have a call or decide during the F2F.
  189. # [18:29] <vhardy> glazou: next item, we can talk about namespaces.
  190. # [18:29] <vhardy> glazou: I had an AI to ping the i18n WG.
  191. # [18:30] <vhardy> kojiishi: Actually, this was just discussed in the i18n meeting earlier today.
  192. # [18:30] <vhardy> kojiishi: we should have an answer by next week.
  193. # [18:31] <vhardy> glazou: I hope it will not imply a lot of changes. If it does not, we can publish.
  194. # [18:31] <vhardy> glazou: anything else on that topic?
  195. # [18:31] <vhardy> glazou: anything else we should discuss today?
  196. # [18:31] <fantasai> zakim, who is here?
  197. # [18:31] <Zakim> On the phone I see stearns, plinss, vhardy, glazou, smfr, [Microsoft], [Apple], [Microsoft.a], fantasai, kojiishi, arronei, howcome, bradk
  198. # [18:31] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has johnjan
  199. # [18:31] <Zakim> [Apple] has hober
  200. # [18:31] <Zakim> On IRC I see alexmog, smfr, murakami, bradk, johnjan, oyvinds, vhardy, stearns, arronei, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou, Martijnc, arno, kojiishi, unomi, szilles, CSSWG_LogBot, karl,
  201. # [18:31] <Zakim> ... lhnz, krijnh, TabAtkins, hober, fantasai, plinss, Bert, Hixie, gsnedders, jgraham, trackbot
  202. # [18:31] * alexmog is here too
  203. # [18:33] <vhardy> fantasai: I have a question about what to do about the intric width of multi-col elements.
  204. # [18:33] <vhardy> hakon: I do not think this is a multi-col specific issue.
  205. # [18:33] <vhardy> hakon: I think this is an issue that we need to address, just not as a multi-col issue.
  206. # [18:34] <vhardy> glazou: do you mean that the algorithm to compute the width of columns is orthogonal to the widht of the elements themselves.
  207. # [18:34] <vhardy> s/widht/width
  208. # [18:34] <vhardy> fantasai: where should I address this?
  209. # [18:35] <vhardy> fantasai: we need to define the shrink wrap algorithm for table and other use cases.
  210. # [18:35] <vhardy> fantasai: I would like if this issue should be left undefined or if we should add it to the appendix of wrapping mode.
  211. # [18:36] <vhardy> hakon: yes, I think you should do.
  212. # [18:36] <vhardy> fantasai: multi-col has special considerations, such as the max-content-width that is different for multi-col elements.
  213. # [18:38] <vhardy> hakon: I do not think we should single out the multi-col elements.
  214. # [18:39] <vhardy> fantasai: describes a use case with multi-column where there are specificities.
  215. # [18:40] <vhardy> hakon: we have simplified the multi-column specification.
  216. # [18:40] * Quits: szilles (chatzilla@212.8.100.54) (Ping timeout)
  217. # [18:40] <vhardy> fantasai: I would like to address these use cases.
  218. # [18:45] <fantasai> we have 3 options
  219. # [18:45] <vhardy> fantasai: we have 3 options:
  220. # [18:45] <fantasai> a) leave shrinkwrap undefined, as currently in css3-multicol
  221. # [18:46] <fantasai> b) define shrinkwrap to ignore multi-col properties, calculate as if columns weren't there
  222. # [18:46] <fantasai> c) define shrinkwrap with consideration of multicol properties
  223. # [18:48] <vhardy> hakon: there is already interoperable implementations of shrinkwrap in multi-col. It is not documented, but it is interoperably implemented.
  224. # [18:48] <vhardy> hakon: if we document it, it should document current implementation.
  225. # [18:48] <vhardy> galzou: fantasai says that the current impls. do not cover all scripts.
  226. # [18:49] <vhardy> fantasai: yes, and other more complicated use cases we have not though of yet.
  227. # [18:49] <vhardy> glazou: so we are not ready yet to standardize that?
  228. # [18:49] <vhardy> fantasai: no, it is just that shrinkwrapping multi-col elements is that it is more important than we thought.
  229. # [18:50] <vhardy> glazou: we have a pretty stable multi-col spec. that we can move along the spec. track.
  230. # [18:50] <vhardy> glazou: the shrinkwrap algorithm needs to be extended separately, and implementors will have to do their work.
  231. # [18:50] <vhardy> hakon: yes, I agree.
  232. # [18:50] <vhardy> hakon: if there are new use cases, we could address them in a later spec.
  233. # [18:51] <vhardy> glazou: yes, if we wait to address all use cases, we will drag the effort.
  234. # [18:51] <vhardy> fantasai: I am not asking to modify the multi-col spec.
  235. # [18:51] <vhardy> hakon: but you are asking to specifiy multi-col functionality in a different spec.
  236. # [18:51] <vhardy> glazou: do we have a proposal?
  237. # [18:52] <vhardy> fantasai: yes.
  238. # [18:52] <vhardy> glazou: we need the whole group to be present for this discussion.
  239. # [18:52] <vhardy> glazou: we cannot resolve it today. We can discuss it next week or during the F2F.
  240. # [18:53] <vhardy> glazou: changing something in the feature related to the relation between two specification is something we can still discuss.
  241. # [18:53] <vhardy> glazou: in the meantime, I propose we make progress on the multi-col spec. and make progress on the test suite, move it along as it is today. We have implementations, use cases on the web.
  242. # [18:53] <vhardy> fantasai: ok with me.
  243. # [18:53] <vhardy> hakon: ok with me.
  244. # [18:54] <vhardy> glazou: no change in the multi-col spec. for now. We will discuss shrinkwrap issues related to multi-col with hakon present.
  245. # [18:55] <vhardy> plinss: I proposed change to mercurial. Did not hear any objection. Planning to make the change today.
  246. # [18:55] <vhardy> fantasai: do we have documentation on the mercurial client.
  247. # [18:56] <vhardy> arronei: I have concerned about the documentation as well. We would need a place with documentation.
  248. # [18:56] <vhardy> fantasai: we would need instructions for common functionality.
  249. # [18:56] <vhardy> plinss: I can put this together.
  250. # [18:57] <vhardy> fantasai: documenting merge process would be great.
  251. # [18:58] <vhardy> (discussion about CVS/SVN merits)
  252. # [19:00] <vhardy> glazou: any objection to move to mercurial?
  253. # [19:00] <vhardy> fantasai: none if we have instructions.
  254. # [19:00] <vhardy> (no objection)
  255. # [19:00] <fantasai> very simple, clear, easy-to-follow instructions
  256. # [19:00] <vhardy> RESOLUTION: moving test suite to mercurial.
  257. # [19:00] <fantasai> not "here's a link to the manual" :)
  258. # [19:02] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
  259. # [19:02] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  260. # [19:02] <Zakim> -smfr
  261. # [19:02] <Zakim> -[Apple]
  262. # [19:02] * Quits: johnjan (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Quit: Page closed)
  263. # [19:02] <Zakim> -vhardy
  264. # [19:02] * Quits: bradk (bradk@99.7.175.117) (Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/ )
  265. # [19:02] <Zakim> -glazou
  266. # [19:02] <Zakim> -kojiishi
  267. # [19:02] <Zakim> -plinss
  268. # [19:02] <Zakim> -stearns
  269. # [19:02] <Zakim> -howcome
  270. # [19:02] <Zakim> -bradk
  271. # [19:02] <Zakim> -fantasai
  272. # [19:02] * Quits: kojiishi (kojiishi@222.158.227.129) (Quit: Leaving...)
  273. # [19:02] * Quits: murakami (murakami@118.154.209.3) (Quit: Leaving...)
  274. # [19:02] * Quits: glazou (glazou@82.247.96.19) (Quit: glazou)
  275. # [19:03] * Parts: vhardy (vhardy@192.150.10.200)
  276. # [19:04] * Quits: stearns (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Quit: Page closed)
  277. # [19:06] * Quits: oyvinds (oyvinds@84.215.20.246) (Quit: oyvinds)
  278. # [19:06] <Zakim> -arronei
  279. # [19:06] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  280. # [19:06] <Zakim> Attendees were stearns, plinss, glazou, +1.415.290.aaaa, vhardy, smfr, arronei, hober, [Microsoft], johnjan, bradk, +1.415.920.aabb, fantasai, kojiishi, +1.415.832.aacc, howcome
  281. # [19:18] * Parts: smfr (smfr@17.203.14.12)
  282. # [19:21] * Quits: fantasai (fantasai@69.162.163.148) (Quit: leaving)
  283. # [19:36] * Quits: arno (arno@192.150.10.201) (Ping timeout)
  284. # [19:43] * Joins: arno (arno@192.150.10.200)
  285. # [19:43] * Quits: arno (arno@192.150.10.200) (Quit: Leaving.)
  286. # [19:43] * Joins: nimbupani (Adium@97.126.57.138)
  287. # [19:44] * Parts: nimbupani (Adium@97.126.57.138)
  288. # [19:50] * Quits: karl (karlcow@128.30.54.58) (Client exited)
  289. # [20:12] * Joins: arno (arno@192.150.10.200)
  290. # [20:31] * Quits: arno (arno@192.150.10.200) (Quit: Leaving.)
  291. # [20:34] * Joins: arno (arno@192.150.10.201)
  292. # [20:59] * Quits: arno (arno@192.150.10.201) (Quit: Leaving.)
  293. # [21:07] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  294. # [21:07] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.169)
  295. # [21:10] * Joins: arno (arno@192.150.10.200)
  296. # [21:21] * Quits: arno (arno@192.150.10.200) (Ping timeout)
  297. # [21:21] * Joins: arno (arno@192.150.10.201)
  298. # [22:05] * Quits: arno (arno@192.150.10.201) (Quit: Leaving.)
  299. # [22:09] * Joins: arno (arno@192.150.10.200)
  300. # [22:21] * Quits: Martijnc (Martijnc@84.192.44.100) (Quit: Martijnc)
  301. # [22:32] * Joins: karl (karlcow@128.30.54.58)
  302. # [23:13] * Quits: alexmog (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Ping timeout)
  303. # Session Close: Thu May 19 00:00:00 2011

The end :)