/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2011-08-16 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Aug 16 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #css
  3. # [00:17] <fantasai> TabAtkins: So do you want me to resend those flex() comments to www-style for archiving?
  4. # [00:18] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Also, curl is available for Windows, too. And not available by default on many *nix systems
  5. # [00:19] * Quits: jdaggett (jdaggett@110.4.237.25) (Quit: jdaggett)
  6. # [00:19] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Yeah, go ahead.
  7. # [00:19] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Feel free to edit the wiki page accordingly.
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  10. # [00:23] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Ok, I cut out the flex(<length>) comment since the old draft had it that way
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  13. # [00:43] <fantasai> TabAtkins: What do you think of replacing attr(bgcolor, color, white) with attr(bgcolor as color, white)
  14. # [00:43] <fantasai> ?
  15. # [00:45] <TabAtkins> fantasai: I don't have a strong opinion. Seems fine to me. I know you're crusading for more examples of "function arguments use arbitrary CSS syntax". ^_^
  16. # [00:45] <fantasai> That and I can never remember which argument goes first otherwise. ^_^
  17. # [00:45] <TabAtkins> Good point. Yay for grammar!
  18. # [00:46] <TabAtkins> You mean between the type and default value, right?
  19. # [00:46] <fantasai> all of them really
  20. # [00:46] <fantasai> This way I think of it as a fallback list
  21. # [00:46] <TabAtkins> Well, it seems pretty natural to have the attr name first. But otherwise, yeah, this feels pretty good.
  22. # [00:46] <fantasai> first try "bgcolor's value (parsed as a color)" then try "white"
  23. # [00:46] <TabAtkins> Does anyone implement attr yet?
  24. # [00:46] <fantasai> in full? dunno
  25. # [00:47] <fantasai> but content: attr() is CSS2.1
  26. # [00:47] <TabAtkins> Oh, right, if all they do is accept an attr name, then this change is compatible.
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  32. # [02:15] <tantek> TabAtkins we could also use functions for the typecasting
  33. # [02:15] <tantek> e.g. attr(color(bgcolor))
  34. # [02:18] <tantek> and then simply define how color() parses for a <color> value the same as the 'color' property http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-color/#colorunits
  35. # [02:18] <tantek> that's consistent with say, the url() function
  36. # [02:18] <TabAtkins> tantek: That doesn't work generally - for example, you can't use url() to typecast to a url type.
  37. # [02:18] <tantek> which parses a string into a URL
  38. # [02:18] <tantek> hah - we both used the same example to prove different points - funny
  39. # [02:18] <TabAtkins> Heh.
  40. # [02:19] <TabAtkins> It would also mean that we can't ever introduce color() for anything else, since it's already defined as taking an arbitrary keyword representing an attribute.
  41. # [02:19] <tantek> yeah that would be annoying
  42. # [02:19] <tantek> oh wait
  43. # [02:19] <tantek> would prefer that color() parsed a *string*
  44. # [02:19] <tantek> rather than a reference to an attribute
  45. # [02:20] <tantek> hmm… so...
  46. # [02:20] <tantek> color(attr(bgcolor))
  47. # [02:20] <tantek> there, that's better
  48. # [02:20] <TabAtkins> attr(bgcolor as color) seems pretty clear too. ^_^
  49. # [02:20] <tantek> url(attr(background))
  50. # [02:21] <TabAtkins> I think that violates the 2.1 grammar.
  51. # [02:21] <TabAtkins> Possible the core grammar.
  52. # [02:21] <tantek> functions can't call functions?
  53. # [02:21] <TabAtkins> url() can't, I think.
  54. # [02:21] <tantek> pretty sure core grammar allows for nested ()
  55. # [02:21] <TabAtkins> General functions definitely can, yes.
  56. # [02:21] <tantek> also pretty sure core grammar doesn't define specific functions
  57. # [02:22] <TabAtkins> http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/syndata.html
  58. # [02:22] <TabAtkins> It certainly does define url() specially. ^^
  59. # [02:22] <TabAtkins> Because url() has magical tokenization rules.
  60. # [02:22] <tantek> 2.1 does yes
  61. # [02:22] <TabAtkins> No, that's the core grammar.
  62. # [02:22] <TabAtkins> 2.1 grammar is in appendix G.
  63. # [02:24] <tantek> wow: "User agents may vary in how they handle invalid URIs or URIs that designate unavailable or inapplicable resources. "
  64. # [02:24] <tantek> ?!?
  65. # [02:24] <tantek> it's been too long since I edited this chapter
  66. # [02:24] <TabAtkins> That just means that, for example, CSS doesn't define how to display an invalid url.
  67. # [02:24] <tantek> like maybe 5-6 years?
  68. # [02:24] <tantek> "handle invalid URIs"
  69. # [02:25] <tantek> could be enough wiggle room to support attr()
  70. # [02:25] <tantek> or not - if implementations already try to load example.com/attr()
  71. # [02:25] <tantek> frustrating
  72. # [02:26] <TabAtkins> url(attr()) is an invalid url token already.
  73. # [02:30] <TabAtkins> (Unescaped parens are not allowed in the URI token.)
  74. # [02:36] <tantek> that's actually good then!
  75. # [02:36] <tantek> it means existing implementations would ignore url(attr(background)) as an illegal value
  76. # [02:36] <tantek> *should*
  77. # [02:36] <TabAtkins> If you think the direction you're going is good. ^_^
  78. # [02:36] <tantek> :)
  79. # [02:36] <tantek> well rather, it provides the opportunity should we decide to take it
  80. # [02:37] <tantek> I'm more brainstorming out loud here
  81. # [02:37] <tantek> "… as color" seems ok too
  82. # [02:37] <tantek> just trying to solicit consideration of options
  83. # [02:38] <TabAtkins> Ah, kk.
  84. # [02:38] <tantek> however regarding the original / existing syntax
  85. # [02:38] <tantek> attr(attrname, type, default)
  86. # [02:38] <tantek> I too have difficulties remembering the order
  87. # [02:38] <tantek> so yeah - we should improve on that
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  97. # [05:26] <tantek> hey TabAtkins - if you're still there, I'm willing to add element(#ID) as an additional at-risk syntax for the nav-* directional properties to be consistent, but the existing #ID syntax should stay as that's already been interoperably implemented.
  98. # [05:26] <tantek> [CSS3-UI]
  99. # [05:27] <tantek> note that this would be making an exception for element(#ID), as any other features not currently implemented are being punted to CSS4-UI
  100. # [05:29] <TabAtkins> Who's already implemented it?
  101. # [05:34] <TabAtkins> Eh, I'm heading home now (but continue talking if you want - I'll see the scrollback in the morning). I don't think it's a big deal, but I know that Webkit is having some problems trying to implement it as-written, because hashes get turned into colors at a fairly low level.
  102. # [05:42] <tantek> Opera has implemented it for years (since early 2000s), as has/did Tasman (which is apparently now shipping in MSTV set top boxes), and from my understanding, TV set top box browsers in general all have this now.
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  113. # [11:50] <Bert> fantasai, the webmasters proposed Thursday for CSS Speech.
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  118. #
  119. # Session Start: Tue Aug 16 14:45:31 2011
  120. # Session Ident: #css
  121. # [14:45] * Now talking in #css
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  127. # [18:55] <fantasai> Bert: Ok, cool
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  144. # [23:42] <dbaron> fantasai, I'm having trouble understanding the property grammar for http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-writing-modes/#unicode-bidi given that it has one more ] than it does [
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  146. # Session Close: Wed Aug 17 00:00:00 2011

The end :)