/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2011-08-31 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Aug 31 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #css
  3. # [01:29] <fantasai> TabAtkins: I updated http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-values/#value-stages
  4. # [01:30] <fantasai> TabAtkins: (Mainly just syncing against 2.1 and fixing formatting issues.)
  5. # [01:34] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Okay, looks fine. Are you looking for specific feedback?
  6. # [01:35] <fantasai> Nope
  7. # [01:36] <fantasai> I think that's all the sections, though
  8. # [01:38] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Ah, so at this point everything's received at least a token treatment?
  9. # [01:45] <TabAtkins> fantasai: What's this email about nimbu's writeup in response to?
  10. # [01:45] <nimbupani> TabAtkins: wat
  11. # [01:46] <nimbupani> o
  12. # [01:46] <nimbupani> yeah
  13. # [01:46] <TabAtkins> She sent it to you too, nimbu.
  14. # [01:46] <nimbupani> TabAtkins: i had cced you here
  15. # [01:47] <nimbupani> TabAtkins: http://oksoclap.com/f6Htohonjr
  16. # [01:47] <nimbupani> fantasai fixed stuff for me ^_^
  17. # [01:47] <nimbupani> so ur fixes would be welcome too
  18. # [01:53] <fantasai> TabAtkins: yeah
  19. # [01:53] <fantasai> TabAtkins: So I'm thinking we should publish and then start to process issues.
  20. # [01:54] <TabAtkins> Yeah, definitely.
  21. # [01:54] <TabAtkins> Put it on the docket for tomorrow?
  22. # [02:00] <fantasai> already did
  23. # [02:14] * Quits: plinss_ (plinss@192.6.114.30) (Quit: plinss_)
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  25. # [03:03] <jdaggett> fantasai: ping
  26. # [03:13] * Quits: stearns (anonymous@192.150.22.5) (Ping timeout)
  27. # [03:14] <fantasai> jdaggett: pong
  28. # [03:14] <jdaggett> quick question
  29. # [03:14] <fantasai> sure
  30. # [03:14] <jdaggett> the public list that accepts attachments
  31. # [03:14] <fantasai> www-archive@w3.org
  32. # [03:14] <jdaggett> cool, thanks
  33. # [03:14] <fantasai> np :)
  34. # [03:15] <fantasai> (there's an internal one at w3c-archive@w3.org as well)
  35. # [03:15] <fantasai> both of them get used both for attachments and also for off-list emails that people want archived
  36. # [03:15] <jdaggett> right, i wanted to make sure not to use that one
  37. # [03:15] <fantasai> heh
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  64. # [17:48] * Joins: RRSAgent (rrs-loggee@128.30.52.169)
  65. # [17:48] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/31-css-irc
  66. # [17:49] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
  67. # [17:49] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 16 minutes
  68. # [17:49] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
  69. # [17:49] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
  70. # [17:49] * glazou is back but with such a monster backlog he has not processed all www-style/w3-css-wg emails...
  71. # [17:55] * Joins: TabAtkins_ (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  72. # [17:55] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@173.228.28.227)
  73. # [18:01] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
  74. # [18:01] <Zakim> + +1.858.354.aaaa
  75. # [18:01] <plinss> zakim, aaaa is me
  76. # [18:01] <Zakim> +plinss; got it
  77. # [18:02] <Zakim> +??P9
  78. # [18:02] <Florianr> Zakim, I am ??P9
  79. # [18:02] <Zakim> +Florianr; got it
  80. # [18:02] <Zakim> + +1.206.552.aabb
  81. # [18:02] <nimbupani> Zakim aabb is me
  82. # [18:03] <nimbupani> zakim, aabb is me
  83. # [18:03] <Zakim> +nimbupani; got it
  84. # [18:03] <nimbupani> okay!
  85. # [18:03] * nimbupani is now known as nimbu
  86. # [18:03] <Zakim> +??P14
  87. # [18:03] <glazou> Zakim, code?
  88. # [18:03] <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), glazou
  89. # [18:04] <Zakim> +??P16
  90. # [18:04] <glazou> Zakim, ??P16 is me
  91. # [18:04] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
  92. # [18:04] <Zakim> + +1.619.846.aacc
  93. # [18:04] <hober> Zakim, aacc is me
  94. # [18:04] <Zakim> +hober; got it
  95. # [18:05] <Zakim> + +34.92.38.aadd
  96. # [18:05] <arronei_> zakim, microsoft is me
  97. # [18:05] <Zakim> sorry, arronei_, I do not recognize a party named 'microsoft'
  98. # [18:05] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  99. # [18:05] <arronei_> zakim, microsoft is me
  100. # [18:05] <Zakim> +arronei_; got it
  101. # [18:05] <Zakim> + +1.206.550.aaee
  102. # [18:05] * glazou noticed nimbu was interviewed by cheilmann
  103. # [18:05] <stearns> zakim, aaee is me
  104. # [18:05] <Zakim> +stearns; got it
  105. # [18:05] <nimbu> haha :)
  106. # [18:06] * Bert zakim, aadd is me
  107. # [18:06] * Zakim +Bert; got it
  108. # [18:06] <Zakim> + +1.650.618.aaff
  109. # [18:06] * glazou did not have time to view it yet
  110. # [18:06] * dbaron Zakim, aaff is dbaron
  111. # [18:06] * Zakim +dbaron; got it
  112. # [18:06] <nimbu> aww
  113. # [18:06] * Joins: bradk (bradk@99.51.121.70)
  114. # [18:07] <dbaron> Zakim seems to have forgotten all the phone number to name mappings...
  115. # [18:07] * Joins: smfr (smfr@173.228.90.11)
  116. # [18:08] <Bert> There was a network problem last weekend, some broken i/f card, I believe, and some services had to be restarted. I guess Zakim lost its memory in the process.
  117. # [18:08] * Joins: arno (arno@192.150.10.200)
  118. # [18:08] <Zakim> +SteveZ
  119. # [18:08] <Zakim> + +1.415.832.aagg
  120. # [18:08] * Joins: kimberlyblessing (Kimberly@68.81.71.240)
  121. # [18:08] <arno> Zakim, aagg is arno
  122. # [18:08] <Zakim> +arno; got it
  123. # [18:08] <Zakim> + +1.408.636.aahh
  124. # [18:08] * Joins: oyvind (oyvinds@213.236.208.22)
  125. # [18:08] <plinss> http://www.w3.org/1998/12/bridge/info/name.php3
  126. # [18:08] <smfr> Zakim, aahh is me
  127. # [18:08] <Zakim> +smfr; got it
  128. # [18:08] <glazou> Bert: in other words, Zakim suffered an trauma-induced amnesia ?-)
  129. # [18:09] <Bert> :-)
  130. # [18:09] <Zakim> + +1.281.305.aaii
  131. # [18:09] <Zakim> + +1.215.286.aajj
  132. # [18:09] <Zakim> + +1.650.766.aakk
  133. # [18:09] <TabAtkins_> Zakim, aaii is me
  134. # [18:09] * Joins: szilles (chatzilla@24.6.120.172)
  135. # [18:09] <Zakim> +TabAtkins_; got it
  136. # [18:09] <kimberlyblessing> Zakim, aajj is me
  137. # [18:09] <Zakim> +kimberlyblessing; got it
  138. # [18:09] <arno> db updated. thanks plinss
  139. # [18:09] <bradk> Zakim, aakk is me
  140. # [18:09] <Zakim> +bradk; got it
  141. # [18:10] * bradk was chewing. sorry about that
  142. # [18:10] <TabAtkins_> ScribeNick: TabAtkins_
  143. # [18:10] <TabAtkins_> plinss: Had a request to publish an update to css3 values.
  144. # [18:10] <Zakim> + +1.415.920.aall
  145. # [18:10] <TabAtkins_> glazou: elika sent an email about extra stuff
  146. # [18:11] <TabAtkins_> plinss: Yes, I have that.
  147. # [18:11] <fantasai> Zakim, aall is me
  148. # [18:11] <Zakim> +fantasai; got it
  149. # [18:11] <TabAtkins_> TabAtkins_: I support publishing the new Values WD
  150. # [18:11] * dbaron heard tab breaking up the first time, but fine since then
  151. # [18:11] <TabAtkins_> plinss: Any opposition?
  152. # [18:11] <TabAtkins_> Bert, glazou: in favor
  153. # [18:12] <TabAtkins_> RESOLVED: Publish a new WD of css3-values
  154. # [18:12] <TabAtkins_> plinss: We discussed last week some specs we may want to update for epub, and we started talking about fonts. do we have the people we need?
  155. # [18:12] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: Unless John Daggett is on, no.
  156. # [18:12] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: I think Fonts is less critical, because there's no syntactic changes.
  157. # [18:12] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: And they're tracking the latest in terms of semantics.
  158. # [18:13] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: As soon as John publishes the next draft, it'll be the one that defines the matching algo.
  159. # [18:13] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: I think that's all we need to discuss for epub. Writing Modes and Text will be published next week.
  160. # [18:13] <TabAtkins_> plinss: Bert's not sure we have a formal resolution to publish Selectors 4.
  161. # [18:13] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: The limit was to publish by the end of September. I think we should just publish now.
  162. # [18:14] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: I think Selectors is a good spec to break the level 3/4 barrier with.
  163. # [18:14] <TabAtkins_> plinss: There was some concern about publishing before the Rec came out, but I"m not too concerned about that.
  164. # [18:14] <TabAtkins_> glazou: A while back we got an email from Ian Jacobs about that, and he was concerned about releasing Selectors 4 before 3 was Rec.
  165. # [18:15] <TabAtkins_> szilles: It's easier to describe what's going on if Selectors 3 is a Rec before we release Selectors 4.
  166. # [18:15] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: One, HTML5 needs something to refer to, and we don't want them referring to our EDs.
  167. # [18:16] <TabAtkins_> szilles: HTML5 is at least 2 years away from Rec, so it's not a big deal.
  168. # [18:16] <TabAtkins_> TabAtkins_: More like 10 years, to be honest.
  169. # [18:16] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: They said September 7th is the earliest they can publish.
  170. # [18:16] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: We're also trying to work on things in parallel, so we'll get to the point where we're working on a level 4 module while the level 3 module is in CR. So what's the problem?
  171. # [18:17] <TabAtkins_> szilles: You're missing the publicity opportunity.
  172. # [18:17] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: We had one with 2.1
  173. # [18:17] <TabAtkins_> szilles: And we have another one here. There's no real urgency.
  174. # [18:17] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: So the first time we publish a level 4 WD while a level 3 spec isn't Rec will be CR.
  175. # [18:17] <Zakim> +dsinger
  176. # [18:18] <TabAtkins_> glazou: It's a bad public signal to release level 4 before level 3 when Selectors 3 has been worked on for so so long.
  177. # [18:18] * Joins: dsinger_ (dsinger@67.218.104.118)
  178. # [18:18] <TabAtkins_> glazou: It's acceptable to do so when a spec has only been worked on for 2 years or something, but not 12 years like Selectors.
  179. # [18:18] <dsinger_> zakim, mute dsinger
  180. # [18:18] <Zakim> dsinger should now be muted
  181. # [18:18] <TabAtkins_> szilles: I agree.
  182. # [18:18] * dsinger_ sorry to be late
  183. # [18:19] <glazou> np dsinger_
  184. # [18:19] <TabAtkins_> szilles: If there was an urgent problem, I'd agree with fantasai, but HTML5 isn't an urgent problem here.
  185. # [18:20] <TabAtkins_> plinss: Do we want to wait to publish, or publish them simultaneously?
  186. # [18:20] <TabAtkins_> multiple: That's fine:
  187. # [18:20] <TabAtkins_> RESOLVED: Publish WD of Selectors 4 with the Rec of Selectors 3.
  188. # [18:20] * Quits: dsinger_ (dsinger@67.218.104.118) (Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi)
  189. # [18:20] <Zakim> -dsinger
  190. # [18:20] <TabAtkins_> arronei_: Tab, are you sending the request to publish Images?
  191. # [18:21] <TabAtkins_> TabAtkins_: Yes, I've probably missed the slot for this week, but I'll publish next week.
  192. # [18:21] <Zakim> +dsinger
  193. # [18:21] <TabAtkins_> Topic: Spec conformance markup
  194. # [18:21] * Joins: dsinger_ (dsinger@67.218.104.118)
  195. # [18:21] <Zakim> -fantasai
  196. # [18:21] <dsinger_> zakim, mute dsinger
  197. # [18:21] <Zakim> dsinger should now be muted
  198. # [18:21] <TabAtkins_> plinss: We're developing tools to map assertions to tests so we have a visible record of our coverage.
  199. # [18:21] <plinss> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-css-testsuite/2011Aug/0006.html
  200. # [18:21] <TabAtkins_> plinss: Alan sent out some requests for guidance on how to do this for the Regions spec.
  201. # [18:21] <Zakim> +??P56
  202. # [18:21] * dsinger_ damn AT&T
  203. # [18:21] <fantasai> Zakim, ??P56 is me
  204. # [18:21] <Zakim> +fantasai; got it
  205. # [18:22] * Ms2ger misses a resolution that it's fine that HTML refers to EDs, if the WG isn't willing to publish up-to-date specs
  206. # [18:22] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: I can understand wanting to have more granular anchors, but later in the thread you were saying that you just have to point out the bits that are normative. But that's not helpful, because most of the spec is normative excepts the notes and examples.
  207. # [18:23] <glazou> Ms2ger: publishing specs gives a signal to the public about our WG's work
  208. # [18:23] <glazou> Ms2ger: and the HTML WG is not alone in the W3C
  209. # [18:23] <Ms2ger> So your signal is that you're doing nothing at all?
  210. # [18:23] <TabAtkins_> ???: I don't think that's quite accurate. The Regions spec, for example, has a large section explaining the mechanics, and that's not normative.
  211. # [18:23] <plinss> s/???/stearns/
  212. # [18:24] <glazou> Ms2ger: the signal is that we close the "3" chapter for Selectors before
  213. # [18:24] <Zakim> + +1.650.275.aamm
  214. # [18:24] <Zakim> -bradk
  215. # [18:24] <bradk> Zakim, aamm is me
  216. # [18:24] <Zakim> +bradk; got it
  217. # [18:24] <glazou> Ms2ger: and between you and me, that never prevented the HTML WG from including in HTML stuff that's under CSS WG's scope, refer to non-existing standards, etc.
  218. # [18:24] <TabAtkins_> stearns: If you put the markup on just the normative sections, that's a first step toward testable assertions. That gives you a rough idea of code coverage.
  219. # [18:25] <TabAtkins_> stearns: Regions wants to go into finer detail, so we can check to make sure that each sentence with a testable assertion has a corresponding test.
  220. # [18:25] * Joins: howcome (howcome@88.89.78.85)
  221. # [18:25] <Zakim> + +47.21.65.aann
  222. # [18:25] <Ms2ger> glazou, just saying that you can't demand that nobody references EDs if you aren't willing to publish the new features people need on TR/
  223. # [18:26] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: I understand what you're saying wrt marking things up at a sentence level, but I don't understand the section level. Only a few sections are non-normative, and they can be indicated easily.
  224. # [18:26] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: Also, we already have anchors for the sections.
  225. # [18:26] * dsinger_ hard to hear
  226. # [18:26] <glazou> Ms2ger: who said we're not willing to release? We just have some control on when we release, that's all
  227. # [18:26] <TabAtkins_> plinss: I think he's talking about more just "anything larger than a sentence", like a paragraph or something.
  228. # [18:26] <glazou> Ms2ger: take that to private chat please
  229. # [18:26] * Quits: dsinger_ (dsinger@67.218.104.118) (Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi)
  230. # [18:27] <TabAtkins_> stearns: So you can use this markup to keep track of test coverage for whatever level of granularity you want to track.
  231. # [18:27] <TabAtkins_> arronei_: For CSS 2.1, we have thousands of tests, and they're only linked to the section level. The sections are fairly small.
  232. # [18:27] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: I think 2.1 could have used more granularity.
  233. # [18:28] <fantasai> in its sections
  234. # [18:28] <TabAtkins_> arronei_: Sure, but our modern specs have even smaller sections, so I'm not sure there's a strong problem.
  235. # [18:28] <TabAtkins_> plinss: I'm not concerned about where the assertions are marked up. My concern is about getting sufficient information about testing coverage.
  236. # [18:29] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: Sure. I think per-sentence markup is the best for that, and I also don't want to do per-sentence markup. I think per-paragraph would be fine, but per-section is too large and useless.
  237. # [18:29] <howcome> Zakim, +47.21.65.aann is howcome
  238. # [18:29] <Zakim> +howcome; got it
  239. # [18:30] <TabAtkins_> plinss: I'm just concerned about how to mark up the testable assertions.
  240. # [18:30] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: If you except notes and examples, which are already marked up, most of the test is normative. Thus you can more easily take the parts that *aren't* normative and mark them up.
  241. # [18:31] <fantasai> s/most of the test/most of the text/
  242. # [18:31] <TabAtkins_> plinss: I think another point is that it's not necessarily the author's responsibility. We already have the notion of the test champion, and they could take the spec after it's ready to be published and mark up the assertions.
  243. # [18:31] <TabAtkins_> plinss: I'm not hearing any strong objections. Does anybody think this is a stupid idea?
  244. # [18:31] <TabAtkins_> arronei_: I say we try this on a spec and see how it goes.
  245. # [18:32] <TabAtkins_> plinss: We're already doing that for Regions.
  246. # [18:32] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: Is the test champion doing this during CR, or before?
  247. # [18:32] <TabAtkins_> plinss: When you develop the test suite.
  248. # [18:33] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: If it's during WD then I have to deal with the markup.
  249. # [18:33] <TabAtkins_> TabAtkins_: Developing the testsuite is up to you. If you wait until CR, then you only have to deal with it for CR edits.
  250. # [18:33] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: Which are minor.
  251. # [18:33] <TabAtkins_> plinss: I think if you're developing a test suite before stable/CR, you're doing something wrong.
  252. # [18:33] * Joins: dsinger (dsinger@17.197.32.11)
  253. # [18:34] <TabAtkins_> plinss: So I'm not hearing objections. Alan, go ahead and start working.
  254. # [18:34] <TabAtkins_> Topic: CSS 2.1 and issue tracking
  255. # [18:34] <Zakim> +[Apple]
  256. # [18:34] <Zakim> -dsinger
  257. # [18:34] <dsinger> zakim, [apple] has dsinger
  258. # [18:34] <Zakim> +dsinger; got it
  259. # [18:34] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: Who's tracking issues for 2.1? Nobody right now, but who's responsible going forward for tracking issues for 2.1?
  260. # [18:35] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: And driving decisions and getting errata published, etc. Several things to do.
  261. # [18:35] <TabAtkins_> plinss: Any volunteers?
  262. # [18:35] <TabAtkins_> Bert: Since I'm an editor, I guess I have some responsibility there.
  263. # [18:35] <TabAtkins_> plinss: We do have the bugzilla component set up for it.
  264. # [18:35] <TabAtkins_> Bert: What is the bugzilla component used for?
  265. # [18:36] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: Just as a replacement for the wiki. We still discuss issues on the mailing list, but now we can have the issue more clearly and with a CLOSED or RESOLVED FIXED status.
  266. # [18:36] <TabAtkins_> Bert: And that couldn't be done with Tracker?
  267. # [18:36] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: No, because Tracker sucks at dealing with statuses.
  268. # [18:36] <TabAtkins_> Bert: But it's good with IRC.
  269. # [18:36] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: Yes, but most 2.1 issues come in through the mailing list, and a lot of them are editorial.
  270. # [18:37] <TabAtkins_> plinss: So as issues come in from the mailing list, we put them into bugzilla and track them there, but we keep the discussions on the mailing list.
  271. # [18:37] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: So we can have Bert assigned as the assignee, and me as the QA, so once you mark something as fixed I can check the edit.
  272. # [18:37] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: Bugzilla also makes it easier to assign issues to different people, so you don't have to be the assignee for everything.
  273. # [18:38] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: What's the status of Anton's application?
  274. # [18:38] <TabAtkins_> Bert: I checked - it's currently in PLH's hands. I forwarded the application about 3 weeks ago, but he's been traveling or on holiday.
  275. # [18:38] <TabAtkins_> Bert: I'll ask him when he's back.
  276. # [18:39] <TabAtkins_> plinss: And what about Molly's transition back to IE status?
  277. # [18:39] <TabAtkins_> Bert: It's happening. There's a required delay for people to object, and it's already started, so it should be done in the next few days.
  278. # [18:39] <TabAtkins_> Bert: And I think fantasai is already an official Moz member.
  279. # [18:40] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: The next issue was about the blog.
  280. # [18:40] <TabAtkins_> Bert: In progress. The systeam is deciding who is responsible for what and when.
  281. # [18:40] <TabAtkins_> Bert: Our turn should be next week or so.
  282. # [18:40] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: So for the blogging system, can you make sure all the editors have an account?
  283. # [18:40] <TabAtkins_> Bert: I'll make sure that gets done.
  284. # [18:41] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: We also need to make sure everyone who has an account knows about it, and knows the password, so they can write to the blog.
  285. # [18:41] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: Last issue is announcements for publications.
  286. # [18:41] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: I know that you've often done the announcements to www-style, but I think we should make it the responsibility of the editor to write something.
  287. # [18:41] <TabAtkins_> Bert: I'm in favor of that.
  288. # [18:41] <TabAtkins_> glazou: It should be the responsibility of the editor to publish to the blog, send to www-style, etc.
  289. # [18:42] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: Can we resolve on that?
  290. # [18:42] <TabAtkins_> RESOLVED: The editor of a spec is responsible for posting to the blog, www-style, etc. when something is published.
  291. # [18:42] <TabAtkins_> bradk: Is there a process document somewhere explaining all the steps?
  292. # [18:42] <TabAtkins_> ACTION fantasai to write up a process document on the wiki for how you actually publish something.
  293. # [18:42] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  294. # [18:42] <trackbot> Created ACTION-361 - Write up a process document on the wiki for how you actually publish something. [on Elika Etemad - due 2011-09-07].
  295. # [18:43] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: Do we have an errata document set up for 2.1?
  296. # [18:43] <TabAtkins_> Bert: We should have...
  297. # [18:43] <Bert> http://www.w3.org/Style/css2-updates/REC-CSS2-20110607-errata.html
  298. # [18:43] <Bert> currently empty :-)
  299. # [18:44] <plinss> http://test.csswg.org/shepherd/
  300. # [18:44] <TabAtkins_> plinss: The test suite management system is starting to come online for real. I'd appreciate feedback.
  301. # [18:44] <TabAtkins_> plinss: So just try it out and let me know what you think.
  302. # [18:45] <TabAtkins_> arronei_: Changes we make right now will be just testing, right? It won't reflect into real stuff?
  303. # [18:45] * Parts: howcome (howcome@88.89.78.85)
  304. # [18:45] <TabAtkins_> plinss: Yes, I'll regen the database in a few minutes, and will do it again just before launch. Do what you want, it's all scratch space right now.
  305. # [18:45] <TabAtkins_> plinss: If you have a wiki account, you have an account here with the same login credentials.
  306. # [18:45] <TabAtkins_> plinss: There's a lot of UI work left to do, but it's functional.
  307. # [18:46] * Joins: howcome (howcome@88.89.78.85)
  308. # [18:46] <TabAtkins_> plinss: Short meeting today!
  309. # [18:46] <Zakim> -??P14
  310. # [18:46] <Zakim> -glazou
  311. # [18:46] <Zakim> -dbaron
  312. # [18:46] <Zakim> -kimberlyblessing
  313. # [18:46] <Zakim> -arno
  314. # [18:46] <Zakim> -howcome
  315. # [18:46] * Quits: glazou (glazou@82.247.96.19) (Quit: glazou)
  316. # [18:46] <Zakim> -hober
  317. # [18:46] * Quits: kimberlyblessing (Kimberly@68.81.71.240) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 7.0/20110824172139])
  318. # [18:46] <Zakim> -smfr
  319. # [18:46] <Zakim> -SteveZ
  320. # [18:46] <Zakim> -[Apple]
  321. # [18:46] <Zakim> -nimbupani
  322. # [18:46] <Zakim> -fantasai
  323. # [18:46] <Zakim> -Florianr
  324. # [18:46] <Zakim> -plinss
  325. # [18:46] * Quits: bradk (bradk@99.51.121.70) (Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/ )
  326. # [18:46] <fantasai> Bert: css3-values should be ready for publication, so you can hit go on that as soon as I get out the minutes :)
  327. # [18:46] <Zakim> -Bert
  328. # [18:46] <Zakim> -stearns
  329. # [18:46] <Zakim> -TabAtkins_
  330. # [18:46] <Zakim> -bradk
  331. # [18:46] <Zakim> -arronei_
  332. # [18:46] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  333. # [18:46] <Zakim> Attendees were +1.858.354.aaaa, plinss, Florianr, +1.206.552.aabb, nimbupani, glazou, +1.619.846.aacc, hober, +34.92.38.aadd, arronei_, +1.206.550.aaee, stearns, Bert,
  334. # [18:47] <Zakim> ... +1.650.618.aaff, dbaron, SteveZ, +1.415.832.aagg, arno, +1.408.636.aahh, smfr, +1.281.305.aaii, +1.215.286.aajj, +1.650.766.aakk, TabAtkins_, kimberlyblessing, bradk,
  335. # [18:47] <Zakim> ... +1.415.920.aall, fantasai, dsinger, +1.650.275.aamm, howcome
  336. # [18:47] * Quits: kojiishi (kojiishi@222.158.227.129) (Quit: Leaving...)
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  353. # [19:55] <fantasai> plinss: So, are we marking up normative sections or marking up non-normative sections?
  354. # [19:56] <fantasai> plinss: Because if it's the former, I'm just going to put a <div> around the whole spec.
  355. # [19:56] <fantasai> plinss: which is silly
  356. # [19:56] <fantasai> plinss: but easy
  357. # [19:57] * Quits: szilles (chatzilla@24.6.120.172) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0/20110811165603])
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  359. # [20:36] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  360. # [20:36] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.169)
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  364. # [21:04] <plinss> fantasai: we're marking up normative sections to the smallest level of granularity that makes sense given the stability of the spec
  365. # [21:07] <fantasai> plinss: I'm happy to put anchors at a more granularity that "most of the spec" but adding a class attribute is a bit much imho
  366. # [21:22] <stearns> fantasai: how would you distinguish between a testable anchor and a non-testable anchor? That's the intent of the class attribute
  367. # [21:32] * Quits: miketaylr (miketaylr@24.42.93.245) (Quit: miketaylr)
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  372. # [23:12] <fantasai> stearns: assume testable unless told otherwise?
  373. # [23:13] <fantasai> anchors for/in examples, notes, and informative sections are not testable
  374. # [23:13] <fantasai> pretty much anything else will be testable
  375. # [23:14] <fantasai> if you need something extra, then have a class for non-testable
  376. # [23:14] <fantasai> that'll reduce the amount of markup work involved by a lot
  377. # [23:16] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@63.245.220.240) (Ping timeout)
  378. # [23:26] <fantasai> Bert: css3-values should be ready to go, here are the minutes http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Aug/0674.html
  379. # [23:28] <Bert> Thanks! I'll hit the go button, as you said :-) tomorrow morning, because I prepared the message to the webmaster already, but it is on my computer at work.
  380. # [23:43] <fantasai> ooh, I need to fix the title
  381. # [23:43] <fantasai> just a sec :p
  382. # [23:46] * Quits: TabAtkins (tabatkins@216.239.45.4) (Ping timeout)
  383. # [23:49] <fantasai> Bert: ok, fixed
  384. # [23:57] * Joins: TabAtkins (tabatkins@216.239.45.4)
  385. # Session Close: Thu Sep 01 00:00:00 2011

The end :)