/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2011-09-07 / end

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  54. # Session Start: Wed Sep 07 15:36:19 2011
  55. # Session Ident: #css
  56. # [15:36] * Now talking in #css
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  71. # [17:25] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/07-css-irc
  72. # [17:25] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
  73. # [17:25] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 40 minutes
  74. # [17:25] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
  75. # [17:25] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
  76. # [17:26] <glazou> Regrets from Tab, BradK, John, Cesar
  77. # [17:29] * Quits: nimbupani (Adium@213.236.208.247) (Client exited)
  78. # [17:31] <glazou> Regrets from Arno
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  82. # [18:03] <glazou> Zakim, code?
  83. # [18:03] <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), glazou
  84. # [18:03] * Joins: dsinger_ (dsinger@67.218.103.225)
  85. # [18:03] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
  86. # [18:03] <Zakim> +??P36
  87. # [18:03] <Zakim> + +1.858.354.aaaa
  88. # [18:04] <glazou> Zakim, ??P36 is me
  89. # [18:04] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
  90. # [18:04] * Quits: dsinger_ (dsinger@67.218.103.225) (Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi)
  91. # [18:04] <plinss> zakim, aaaa is me
  92. # [18:04] <Zakim> +plinss; got it
  93. # [18:04] <Zakim> +ChrisL
  94. # [18:04] <Zakim> + +1.619.846.aabb
  95. # [18:04] <plinss> zakim, aabb is hober
  96. # [18:04] <Zakim> +hober; got it
  97. # [18:05] <Zakim> +??P41
  98. # [18:05] * plinss recognizes the san diego area code...
  99. # [18:05] <jdaggett> zakim, ??p41 is me
  100. # [18:05] <Zakim> +jdaggett; got it
  101. # [18:05] * hober thanks plinss
  102. # [18:05] <Zakim> +dsinger
  103. # [18:05] * Joins: dsinger_ (dsinger@67.218.103.225)
  104. # [18:05] <dsinger_> zakim, mute dsinger
  105. # [18:05] <Zakim> dsinger should now be muted
  106. # [18:05] <Zakim> + +1.215.286.aacc
  107. # [18:05] * hober zakim usually knows my number...
  108. # [18:06] * dsinger_ good morning
  109. # [18:06] * Joins: kimberlyblessing (Kimberly@68.81.71.240)
  110. # [18:06] <dsinger_> zakim, who is here?
  111. # [18:06] <Zakim> On the phone I see glazou, plinss, ChrisL, hober, jdaggett, dsinger (muted), +1.215.286.aacc
  112. # [18:06] <Zakim> On IRC I see kimberlyblessing, dsinger_, nimbupani, stearns, vhardy, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou, Ms2ger, miketaylr, Martijnc, jdaggett, ChrisL, lhnz, krijnh, anne, karl, gsnedders,
  113. # [18:06] <Zakim> ... hober, trackbot, CSSWG_LogBot, fantasai, TabAtkins, plinss, ed, Bert, shepazu, Hixie
  114. # [18:07] <kimberlyblessing> Zakim, I am aacc
  115. # [18:07] <Zakim> +kimberlyblessing; got it
  116. # [18:07] * dsinger_ who is in 215 area?
  117. # [18:07] * glazou catches a belgian chocolate before we start...
  118. # [18:07] * dsinger_ share! Share!
  119. # [18:07] <glazou> Zakim, aacc is kimberlyblessing
  120. # [18:07] <Zakim> sorry, glazou, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
  121. # [18:07] * Joins: smfr (smfr@173.228.90.11)
  122. # [18:07] * Joins: arronei (arronei@131.107.0.76)
  123. # [18:07] <Zakim> +??P3
  124. # [18:08] * ChrisL blames kimberlyblessing for having Duran Duran songs going through his head, aaargh
  125. # [18:08] * glazou send dsinger_ a virtual Leonidas gianduja
  126. # [18:08] <glazou> lol
  127. # [18:08] * Joins: alexmog (alexmog@24.16.133.35)
  128. # [18:08] <Zakim> +??P49
  129. # [18:08] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  130. # [18:08] <arronei> zakim, microsoft is me
  131. # [18:08] <Zakim> +arronei; got it
  132. # [18:08] * Joins: Cathy (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  133. # [18:08] <Zakim> + +1.408.636.aadd
  134. # [18:08] * dsinger_ mmmm
  135. # [18:08] <kimberlyblessing> ChrisL, I think you're just using me because I'm an easy target
  136. # [18:08] <Zakim> +Bert
  137. # [18:08] <smfr> Zakim, aadd is me and why didn't you remember?
  138. # [18:08] <smfr> Zakim, aadd is me
  139. # [18:08] * hober smfr :)
  140. # [18:08] <Zakim> I don't understand your question, smfr.
  141. # [18:08] <glazou> dsinger_: http://www.leonidas-chocolate.com/gianduja.html
  142. # [18:09] * dsinger_ if Paris is possible for me I will buy chocolate...
  143. # [18:09] <smfr> Zakim, aadd is me
  144. # [18:09] <Zakim> +smfr; got it
  145. # [18:09] * ChrisL your flickr is to blame. but the gary numan photos cheered me up again
  146. # [18:09] <glazou> dsinger_: there is a leonidas store at walking distance (20 meters) from the meeting place...
  147. # [18:09] <Zakim> sorry, smfr, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd'
  148. # [18:09] * Joins: howcome (howcome@88.89.78.85)
  149. # [18:09] <Zakim> + +47.21.65.aaee
  150. # [18:10] * dsinger_ better than leonidas... :-)
  151. # [18:10] <glazou> eh
  152. # [18:10] * dsinger_ and Syrian sweets from Damascus
  153. # [18:10] <Zakim> + +1.650.618.aaff
  154. # [18:10] <howcome> zakim, +47.21.65.aaee is howcome
  155. # [18:10] <Zakim> +howcome; got it
  156. # [18:10] * Quits: karl (karlcow@128.30.54.58) (Ping timeout)
  157. # [18:11] <plinss> zakim, aaff is dbaron
  158. # [18:11] <Zakim> +dbaron; got it
  159. # [18:11] <Zakim> +cathy
  160. # [18:11] <ChrisL> scribenick: ChrisL
  161. # [18:11] <ChrisL> topic: status of antons ie
  162. # [18:12] <ChrisL> bert: my fault, sent a message to the requests but sent it to wrong place
  163. # [18:13] <Zakim> +SteveZ
  164. # [18:13] <ChrisL> (that was tpac)
  165. # [18:13] <ChrisL> ChrisL: I sent a reminder, should be soon
  166. # [18:13] * Joins: szilles (chatzilla@24.6.120.172)
  167. # [18:13] <ChrisL> topic: css3 fonts
  168. # [18:13] * Joins: karl (karlcow@128.30.54.58)
  169. # [18:14] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@173.228.28.227)
  170. # [18:14] <ChrisL> ChrisL: the ed is much more up to date
  171. # [18:14] * dbaron Zakim, who is on the phone?
  172. # [18:14] * Zakim sees on the phone: glazou, plinss, ChrisL, hober, jdaggett, dsinger (muted), kimberlyblessing, ??P3, ??P49, arronei, smfr, Bert, howcome, dbaron, cathy, SteveZ
  173. # [18:15] <ChrisL> jdaggett: prefer to wait a bit untilmore edits made
  174. # [18:15] <dsinger_> Unless it is actively misleading without the edits, let's publish an then again
  175. # [18:15] <ChrisL> topic: tpac on sunday or not?
  176. # [18:15] <ChrisL> jdaggett: muchprefer we do
  177. # [18:15] <ChrisL> zakim,who is speaking?
  178. # [18:16] <Zakim> ChrisL, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: glazou (14%), plinss (18%), jdaggett (14%), ??P49 (11%), howcome (33%)
  179. # [18:16] <ChrisL> plinss: spoke to Susan about that
  180. # [18:16] <ChrisL> fantasai: we could meet elsewhere
  181. # [18:17] <dsinger_> Ugh
  182. # [18:17] <ChrisL> glazou:confirmed, we will meet Sunday and willsort out a location later if there is no room at the hotel
  183. # [18:17] <fantasai> fantasai: We had talked about meeting elsewhere if the hotel was not available
  184. # [18:17] <ChrisL> topic: writing modes
  185. # [18:17] <ChrisL> jdaggett: goes back to text-orientation. issue of default
  186. # [18:17] <ChrisL> ... means for a string of random unichars what is the behavious in vertical with no extramarkup
  187. # [18:18] <ChrisL> ... non-normative wording recommends but not clear if its normative or not
  188. # [18:18] <ChrisL> ... some contextualrules. koji published a tableof these
  189. # [18:18] <ChrisL> ... spoke to eric mueller of adone who said its better for Unicode to have a table
  190. # [18:19] <jdaggett> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Sep/0003.html
  191. # [18:19] <ChrisL> ... similar but with some important differences
  192. # [18:19] <fantasai> Um, I don't understand why jdaggett is confused, perhaps he hasn't looked at the draft recently. It says very clearly that the orientations are unequivocally *defined* in Appendix C
  193. # [18:19] <fantasai> because that's what he wanted
  194. # [18:19] <ChrisL> jdaggett:says to define a categoryfor each to decide the default orientation
  195. # [18:19] <jdaggett> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Sep/0042.html
  196. # [18:19] <ChrisL> ... differences between erics proposal and current spec
  197. # [18:20] <dsinger_> Isn't material not explicitly marked informative considered therefore normative?
  198. # [18:20] <ChrisL> ... there is also a category called 'use font' which depends on whether the font has vertical metrics. not clear why that is there
  199. # [18:20] <fantasai> dsinger_: That is my understanding.
  200. # [18:21] <ChrisL> ... also some are in basic latin range
  201. # [18:21] <ChrisL> ... hope koji willadd somethingto clarify if this is important
  202. # [18:21] <ChrisL> ... Unicode is the right org to maintain this
  203. # [18:22] <dsinger_> Has Koji been asked to explain? Has the Unicode committee been asked?
  204. # [18:22] <smfr> tumbleweed
  205. # [18:22] <ChrisL> szilles:support Eric's proposal
  206. # [18:22] <dsinger_> Ok
  207. # [18:23] <ChrisL> ... Unicode has been aske and asked Eric to do it
  208. # [18:23] * Joins: miketayl_r (miketaylr@213.236.208.247)
  209. # [18:23] * Quits: miketaylr (miketaylr@213.236.208.247) (Connection reset by peer)
  210. # [18:23] <ChrisL> ... its a legitimate Uniocode activity
  211. # [18:23] <ChrisL> ... issue of deciding whether its upright is independent of the vertical metrics
  212. # [18:24] <ChrisL> fantasai: if there is no alternate vertical glyph, its better to use the horizontal one
  213. # [18:25] <ChrisL> ... but we classify fonts as having or not having vertical fonts, this is a bad idea because some fonts have verticalmetrics but lack vertical alternate glyphs
  214. # [18:25] <ChrisL> ... willproduce brackets that dont encase anything, looks all wrong
  215. # [18:25] <ChrisL> jdaggett: most japanese fonts that are used in web pages have vertical metrics
  216. # [18:26] * fantasai note to self, fix chrisl's notes...
  217. # [18:26] <ChrisL> ... dont see actual fonts that have these faults
  218. # [18:26] * ChrisL invites fantasai to continue minuting due to faster and more accurate typing
  219. # [18:27] <ChrisL> fantasai: dounble quotes in Chinese are unified
  220. # [18:27] <ChrisL> jdaggett:can't connect thatto your algorithm
  221. # [18:28] <ChrisL> fantasai: three categories - upright always, vertical always and depends on font
  222. # [18:28] <ChrisL> szilles: then the font is bad and people will stop using it
  223. # [18:29] <ChrisL> jdaggett: adding lots of mechanics that are not needed
  224. # [18:29] <ChrisL> ... issues of fallback too,may hit a Japanese or not Japanese font. fallback fonts are random
  225. # [18:29] <Zakim> -arronei
  226. # [18:29] <ChrisL> jdaggett: if you are making another proposal, we need to look at that.
  227. # [18:30] <ChrisL> .... some discussion not on www-style
  228. # [18:30] <dsinger_> But I think that the case where you hoped for a vertical font but got fallback should be handled?
  229. # [18:30] * Quits: dsinger_ (dsinger@67.218.103.225) (Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi)
  230. # [18:30] <ChrisL> szilles: adobe position is that upright should not be determined by looking in the font. you decide upright or notthen use the font infortmation
  231. # [18:31] * Quits: miketayl_r (miketaylr@213.236.208.247) (Quit: miketayl_r)
  232. # [18:31] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  233. # [18:31] <arronei> zakim, microsoft is me
  234. # [18:31] <ChrisL> ... if you correct bad fonts then you break good ones
  235. # [18:31] <Zakim> +arronei; got it
  236. # [18:31] <ChrisL> ... not clear there is an immediate need to fix bad fonts
  237. # [18:31] <ChrisL> fantasai;author does not always have that opportunity
  238. # [18:32] <ChrisL> ... common example is em-dashes. often no verticalalternates, but if typeset sideways you get the wrong positioning
  239. # [18:32] <ChrisL> jdaggett: we are talking about the default,not what is possible and not possible.
  240. # [18:32] <ChrisL> ... so why make the simple case complex, authors can solve with markup
  241. # [18:33] <ChrisL> fantasai:markup does not fix bad fonts
  242. # [18:33] <ChrisL> szilles: thought this onlyapplied if it was set upright
  243. # [18:34] <ChrisL> fantasai: correct behaviour is to set them upright and for all fonts to have alternates
  244. # [18:35] <ChrisL> jdaggett:if there are cases nt covered by Erics proposal we need to flush them out. Can't do this on the fly
  245. # [18:35] <ChrisL> jdaggett; need to record the examples
  246. # [18:35] <ChrisL> szilles: put on a wiki
  247. # [18:35] * Joins: dsinger (dsinger@17.197.32.11)
  248. # [18:35] <Zakim> +[Apple]
  249. # [18:36] <Zakim> -dsinger
  250. # [18:36] <ChrisL> fantasai: Koji and I are making a list of allthe codepoints and their behaviour
  251. # [18:36] <dsinger> zakim, [apple] has dsinger
  252. # [18:36] <Zakim> +dsinger; got it
  253. # [18:36] * Quits: karl (karlcow@128.30.54.58) (Quit: Freedom - to walk free and own no superior.)
  254. # [18:36] <ChrisL> szilles: vert feature only applies to upright characters in vertical text
  255. # [18:36] <ChrisL> ...not to rotated characters
  256. # [18:37] <ChrisL> jdaggett: some ascii chars have no vertical alternates,and this sounds as if it is making the alternats on the fly
  257. # [18:38] <ChrisL> ... synthesising is always problematic.
  258. # [18:38] * Quits: nimbupani (Adium@62.16.208.40) (Client exited)
  259. # [18:38] * Joins: nimbupani (Adium@62.16.208.40)
  260. # [18:38] <ChrisL> fantasai:so its a semantic confusion. you think i am synthesisingan upright glyph where I see it as fallback
  261. # [18:39] <ChrisL> jdaggett: want to see a clear definition of why its a problem. need specific use cases
  262. # [18:39] <ChrisL> szilles: rotation is only one way to synthesise a glyph
  263. # [18:39] <ChrisL> fantasai: how else would you do it
  264. # [18:40] <ChrisL> szilles: dont want the synthesis to be codified
  265. # [18:40] <ChrisL> fantasai: distinction between chars that look upright and ones that must have an alternate
  266. # [18:40] <ChrisL> ... hiragana miht have a different positioning for example
  267. # [18:41] <ChrisL> ... but if not alternate, its fine if its missing
  268. # [18:41] <ChrisL> ... while for parentheses, an alternate is mandatory
  269. # [18:41] <ChrisL> jdaggett: in either case it is the same
  270. # [18:41] <ChrisL> fantasai: not really
  271. # [18:41] <ChrisL> szilles: these are different types of wrong
  272. # [18:42] <ChrisL> jdaggett: common pattern in western companies is to develop japanese fonts in China and the shae is known but the patterns are wrong. so the placement of hragana is wrong and looks wrong
  273. # [18:43] <ChrisL> ... very helpfulto have what you are now proposaing, different from the spec as it is now
  274. # [18:43] <ChrisL> szilles: markup to set vertical shoudltrigger the vert feature
  275. # [18:43] <ChrisL> fantasai: definition of upright is thatallchars are upright
  276. # [18:44] <ChrisL> jdaggett: only apply vert feature to runs of vert text
  277. # [18:44] <ChrisL> szilles: want synthesis so only done after upright or not has been determined
  278. # [18:45] <ChrisL> jdaggett: please post proposalto www-style
  279. # [18:45] <ChrisL> dsinger: good to see a comparison
  280. # [18:45] <ChrisL> jdaggett: posted that earlier
  281. # [18:45] <ChrisL> dsinger:good to see some more written discussion
  282. # [18:46] <ChrisL> jdaggett: there is a lot of data on the list
  283. # [18:46] <Zakim> -??P49
  284. # [18:46] <ChrisL> ... but little in responses
  285. # [18:47] <ChrisL> szilles:so we have a distinction between the determination phase and the fixup phase
  286. # [18:47] * Joins: bradk (bradk@166.205.137.246)
  287. # [18:47] <ChrisL> ... this is an important result of todays discussion
  288. # [18:47] <Zakim> + +1.415.920.aagg
  289. # [18:47] <ChrisL> ... dont care if this is updated in the spec first or in a proposal
  290. # [18:47] <fantasai> zakim, ??P49 was fantasai
  291. # [18:47] <Zakim> I don't understand '??P49 was fantasai', fantasai
  292. # [18:47] <fantasai> zakim, ??P49 is fantasai
  293. # [18:47] <Zakim> I already had ??P49 as ??P49, fantasai
  294. # [18:47] <ChrisL> jdaggett: we need more analysis on the data before updatingthe spec
  295. # [18:48] <fantasai> Zakim: aagg is fantasai
  296. # [18:48] <fantasai> Zakim, aagg is fantasai
  297. # [18:48] <Zakim> +fantasai; got it
  298. # [18:48] <ChrisL> jdaggett: we need to talk about specific characters in specific situations where it breaks in vertical
  299. # [18:48] <ChrisL> szilles: please say that on the list
  300. # [18:48] <ChrisL> jdaggett: ok
  301. # [18:49] <ChrisL> topic: cpsp and text transform
  302. # [18:49] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Sep/0058.html
  303. # [18:49] <glazou> http://www.microsoft.com/typography/otspec/features_ae.htm#cpsp
  304. # [18:50] <ChrisL> glazou:fantasai you raised the issue
  305. # [18:50] <ChrisL> fantasai: yes.
  306. # [18:51] <ChrisL> szilles: thought we were trying to avoid property interactions
  307. # [18:51] <Zakim> -ChrisL
  308. # [18:52] <glazou> we lost Chris
  309. # [18:52] <Zakim> +ChrisL
  310. # [18:52] * ChrisL curses at Free.fr
  311. # [18:52] <ChrisL> jdaggett:cpsp is capital spacing, and in InDesign its enabled if you set all caps on a selection. slightly widens the spacing
  312. # [18:53] <ChrisL> ... as default spacig is for mixed case
  313. # [18:54] <ChrisL> ... problem is that applying text transform wont give the effect if text is already in caps. regularly pointed out. should be intrinsic to the font
  314. # [18:54] <jdaggett> http://kltf.de/downloads/ATypI2007-CrossingBorders-kltf.pdf
  315. # [18:54] <ChrisL> jdaggett:seep.28 of that ATypI presentation
  316. # [18:55] <ChrisL> ... slide shows standard spacing, and cpsp, and contextual kerning
  317. # [18:56] <ChrisL> ... spacing is really intrinsic to the font,not a feature
  318. # [18:56] <ChrisL> ... not clearif we should support this feature; better to add to font-variant as an exclusinve value to stop people usingwirth small caps. to avoid feature interactions
  319. # [18:57] * glazou is lost
  320. # [18:57] <ChrisL> ... hoping to hear more typophile opinions. on the top of my head its not a good idea
  321. # [18:57] <ChrisL> fantasai: so tentative resolution is this is not an issue
  322. # [18:57] <ChrisL> jdaggett; yes. people can always use lower levelfeatures to tweak this
  323. # [18:57] * Quits: anne (annevk@213.236.208.22) (Quit: anne)
  324. # [18:58] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011May/0602.html
  325. # [18:58] <ChrisL> topic: Greek
  326. # [18:58] <ChrisL> fantasai:if dropping accents its complicated. its not just 'remove allthe accents'
  327. # [18:59] <ChrisL> ... unicode tablesare for single letters not for wholewords
  328. # [18:59] <ChrisL> ... whole words drop accents so does the first letter
  329. # [19:00] <ChrisL> ... not in Unicode and not doablewith a simpletable. so we shouldnot require it, but we couldallow it
  330. # [19:00] <ChrisL> howcome: could so this with a dictionary
  331. # [19:01] <ChrisL> glazou;from a users perspective it shouldcertainly be allowed
  332. # [19:01] <ChrisL> jdaggett: slippery slope to allow UAs to do their own thing
  333. # [19:02] <ChrisL> glazou: we should accept what native Greek users want
  334. # [19:02] <ChrisL> glazou:Unicode works with characters and glyphs, not words
  335. # [19:02] <ChrisL> szilles: line break rules are word based
  336. # [19:03] <ChrisL> fantasai:only one character lookup
  337. # [19:03] <fantasai> szilles, actually, the line break rules are character-pair based
  338. # [19:04] <ChrisL> ChrisL: Unicode has some problems withGreek already
  339. # [19:05] <ChrisL> action: Chris to contact Unicode about the greek upercasingissue
  340. # [19:05] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  341. # [19:05] * RRSAgent records action 1
  342. # [19:05] <trackbot> Created ACTION-362 - Contact Unicode about the greek upercasingissue [on Chris Lilley - due 2011-09-14].
  343. # [19:05] <ChrisL> fantasai: ok great but that wont help this spec in the short term
  344. # [19:06] <ChrisL> fantasai: preference is to have what is in Unicode as a minimum bar and allow better
  345. # [19:06] <ChrisL> jdaggett:concurr with minimum bar, uneasy on extending
  346. # [19:06] <ChrisL> glazou: not only browsers render html/css
  347. # [19:07] <ChrisL> jdaggett; happyif they hit that minimum bar
  348. # [19:07] <ChrisL> glazou: elika you should add both suggestions
  349. # [19:07] <ChrisL> jdaggett;dont like the "if and only if" language
  350. # [19:07] <ChrisL> fantasai: please post wording proposals
  351. # [19:08] <Zakim> -dbaron
  352. # [19:08] <ChrisL> action: jdaggett to post wording proposals
  353. # [19:08] * RRSAgent records action 2
  354. # [19:08] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  355. # [19:08] <trackbot> Created ACTION-363 - Post wording proposals [on John Daggett - due 2011-09-14].
  356. # [19:08] <Zakim> -jdaggett
  357. # [19:08] <dsinger> bye
  358. # [19:08] <Zakim> -arronei
  359. # [19:08] <ChrisL> resolution: uas can do better than the Unicode minimum
  360. # [19:08] <Zakim> -kimberlyblessing
  361. # [19:08] <Zakim> -glazou
  362. # [19:08] <Zakim> -hober
  363. # [19:08] <Zakim> -smfr
  364. # [19:08] <Zakim> -howcome
  365. # [19:08] <Zakim> -[Apple]
  366. # [19:08] * Quits: kimberlyblessing (Kimberly@68.81.71.240) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 7.0/20110824172139])
  367. # [19:08] <Zakim> -SteveZ
  368. # [19:08] <Zakim> -fantasai
  369. # [19:08] <Zakim> -??P3
  370. # [19:08] <Zakim> -plinss
  371. # [19:08] <Zakim> -Bert
  372. # [19:08] <ChrisL> fantasai please turn my jumbled crap into nice minutes
  373. # [19:09] * Quits: smfr (smfr@173.228.90.11) (Quit: smfr)
  374. # [19:09] <ChrisL> rrsagent, make minutes
  375. # [19:09] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/07-css-minutes.html ChrisL
  376. # [19:09] <Zakim> -cathy
  377. # [19:10] * Quits: ChrisL (ChrisL@128.30.52.169) (Quit: Fire on main board error, client combusted)
  378. # [19:12] * Quits: szilles (chatzilla@24.6.120.172) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0.1/20110830092941])
  379. # [19:13] * Quits: stearns (anonymous@50.132.9.217) (Quit: stearns)
  380. # [19:13] * Quits: glazou (glazou@82.247.96.19) (Quit: glazou)
  381. # [19:13] * Quits: Cathy (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Quit: Page closed)
  382. # [19:14] <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, ChrisL, in Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
  383. # [19:14] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  384. # [19:14] <Zakim> Attendees were +1.858.354.aaaa, glazou, plinss, ChrisL, +1.619.846.aabb, hober, jdaggett, dsinger, +1.215.286.aacc, kimberlyblessing, arronei, +1.408.636.aadd, Bert, smfr,
  385. # [19:14] <Zakim> ... +1.650.618.aaff, howcome, dbaron, cathy, SteveZ, +1.415.920.aagg, fantasai
  386. # [19:14] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@173.228.28.227) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
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  394. # [21:09] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  395. # [21:09] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.169)
  396. # [22:30] * Quits: stearns (anonymous@192.150.22.5) (Quit: stearns)
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  400. # [23:54] * Quits: dsinger (dsinger@17.197.32.11) (Quit: dsinger)
  401. # Session Close: Thu Sep 08 00:00:00 2011

The end :)