/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2011-12-14 / end

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  21. # [03:35] <tantek> I'm going to postpone pointer-events from CSS3-UI to CSS4-UI since it has been the source of the most issues regarding CSS3-UI in the past year+, and it requires documentation of the previously undocumented hit-testing model for the web platform, which feels inappropriate to have published for the first time ever in a LCWD.
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  26. # [06:00] <paul_irish> Bert: do you recall where the discussions about box model happened? IE's box model vs the w3c one? I couldn't find any of them in www-style
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  35. # [06:41] * Topic is 'CSS Working Group | logged at http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/'
  36. # [06:41] * Set by dbaron on Wed Oct 12 01:04:03
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  57. # [16:05] <glenn> Present+ Glenn_Adams
  58. # [16:06] <glenn> ignore that last, wrong channel
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  70. # [17:34] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/14-css-irc
  71. # [17:35] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
  72. # [17:35] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 31 minutes
  73. # [17:35] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
  74. # [17:35] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
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  78. # [17:52] * glazou feels sick
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  80. # [17:53] * sylvaing Appendix E does that to me every single time, fwiw
  81. # [17:54] <Ms2ger> You're lucky there is no table layout spec, then
  82. # [17:58] <glazou> lol
  83. # [17:58] * glazou has now full UI for 3D Transforms in BlueGriffon :-)
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  87. # [18:02] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
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  91. # [18:02] <Zakim> -ericm
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  94. # [18:03] <Zakim> +??P54
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  96. # [18:03] <glazou> Zakim, ??P54 is me
  97. # [18:03] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
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  101. # [18:04] <jdaggett> zakim, ??p59 is me
  102. # [18:05] <Zakim> +stearns
  103. # [18:05] <Zakim> +jdaggett; got it
  104. # [18:05] <Zakim> + +1.603.957.aaaa
  105. # [18:05] <sylvaing> Zakim, aaaa is sylvaing
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  107. # [18:06] <Zakim> +sylvaing; got it
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  109. # [18:06] * jdaggett howdy!
  110. # [18:06] <Zakim> +fantasai
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  115. # [18:07] <Zakim> +??P65
  116. # [18:07] * jdaggett ah elika, that's a very sad story...
  117. # [18:07] <JohnJan> zakim, microsoft has johnjan
  118. # [18:07] <Zakim> +kimberly
  119. # [18:07] <danielweck> Zakim, ??P67 is me
  120. # [18:07] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  121. # [18:07] <Zakim> +johnjan; got it
  122. # [18:07] <Zakim> +[Apple]
  123. # [18:07] <hober> Zakim, Apple has hober
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  125. # [18:08] <Zakim> +danielweck; got it
  126. # [18:08] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
  127. # [18:08] <Zakim> +??P69
  128. # [18:08] <Zakim> +glenn
  129. # [18:08] <Zakim> +hober; got it
  130. # [18:08] <glazou> Zakim, who is here?
  131. # [18:08] <vhardy> Zakim [IPcaller] is me
  132. # [18:08] <Zakim> On the phone I see ericm, divya, glazou, antonp, jdaggett, stearns, sylvaing, fantasai, ??P65, danielweck, kimberly, [Microsoft], [Apple], [IPcaller], ??P69, glenn
  133. # [18:08] <Zakim> [Apple] has hober
  134. # [18:08] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has johnjan
  135. # [18:09] <Ms2ger> Zakim, [IPcaller] is vhardy
  136. # [18:09] <Zakim> On IRC I see dbaron, JohnJan, TabAtkins_, vhardy, bradk, oyvind, danielweck, antonp, stearns, ericm, jdaggett, sylvaing, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou, miketayl_r, nimbu, kojiishi,
  137. # [18:09] * sylvaing I was hoping I could ask howcome if it was a coincidence that the Romans had no pages but plenty of butter...
  138. # [18:09] <Zakim> ... ksweeney, ChrisL, glenn, karl, Simon, tantek, drublic, Ms2ger, florianr, krijnh, danielfilho, brianman, arronei_, mirrorshadetree, dglazkov, Hixie, plinss, Bert, hober,
  139. # [18:09] <Zakim> ... trackbot, ed, TabAtkins, pjrm, shepazu, gsnedders, paul_irish, fantasai, CSSWG_LogBot
  140. # [18:09] <Zakim> +dbaron
  141. # [18:09] <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
  142. # [18:09] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  143. # [18:09] <florianr> Zakim, I am ??P69
  144. # [18:09] <Zakim> +vhardy; got it
  145. # [18:10] <nimbu> i can.
  146. # [18:10] <Zakim> +florianr; got it
  147. # [18:10] <sylvaing> scribenick: sylvaing
  148. # [18:10] <nimbu> thanks sylvaing
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  150. # [18:10] <Zakim> +??P91
  151. # [18:10] * Joins: smfr (smfr@173.228.90.57)
  152. # [18:10] <sylvaing> jdaggett: what of the status of Bucharest f2f?
  153. # [18:10] * Zakim hears ??P91's hand down
  154. # [18:10] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  155. # [18:11] <sylvaing> vhardy: we have found reasonably priced hotels with availability that week.
  156. # [18:11] * Bert zakim, ??P91 is me
  157. # [18:11] <Zakim> +smfr
  158. # [18:11] <sylvaing> vhardy: so we need to choose whether we want to book early or make other arrangements. an email poll will follow
  159. # [18:11] * Zakim +Bert; got it
  160. # [18:11] <sylvaing> vhardy: i.e. do we go ahead with bucharest at those dates or do we change the dates and/or the locale
  161. # [18:12] <sylvaing> vhardy: the wiki page has information. we recommend sticking to the plan and booking as soon as possible
  162. # [18:12] <sylvaing> glazou: please send the WBS questionnaire asap
  163. # [18:12] * Joins: howcome (howcome@88.89.78.85)
  164. # [18:13] <sylvaing> Topic: appearance property
  165. # [18:13] <sylvaing> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2011OctDec/0312.html
  166. # [18:13] <bradk> I can't get on the phone call. Getting a busy signal.
  167. # [18:13] <ChrisL> (having problems connecting to zakim)
  168. # [18:13] <sylvaing> jdaggett: tantek removed it from the spec so I don't think there is any discussion needed
  169. # [18:14] <jdaggett> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Nov/0395.html
  170. # [18:14] <sylvaing> Topic: moving Text features to L4
  171. # [18:14] <sylvaing> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Nov/0395.html
  172. # [18:14] <jdaggett> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Dec/0022.html
  173. # [18:14] <sylvaing> jdaggett: the text-transform property is L3 but the @text-transform rule is moved to L4
  174. # [18:15] <jdaggett> http://wiki.csswg.org/ideas:at-text-transform
  175. # [18:15] <ChrisL> zakim, who is here?
  176. # [18:15] <Zakim> On the phone I see ericm, divya, glazou, antonp, jdaggett, stearns, sylvaing, fantasai, ??P65, danielweck, kimberly, [Microsoft], [Apple], vhardy, florianr, glenn, dbaron,
  177. # [18:15] <Zakim> ... [IPcaller.a], [Microsoft.a], Bert, smfr
  178. # [18:15] * howcome cannot dial in, it seems
  179. # [18:15] <Zakim> [Apple] has hober
  180. # [18:15] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has johnjan
  181. # [18:15] <Zakim> On IRC I see howcome, smfr, dsinger, dbaron, JohnJan, TabAtkins_, vhardy, bradk, oyvind, danielweck, antonp, stearns, ericm, jdaggett, sylvaing, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou,
  182. # [18:15] <sylvaing> I think Florian's approach is a better way to go as it generalizes the feature
  183. # [18:15] <Zakim> ... miketayl_r, nimbu, kojiishi, ksweeney, ChrisL, glenn, karl, Simon, tantek, drublic, Ms2ger, florianr, krijnh, danielfilho, brianman, arronei_, mirrorshadetree, dglazkov, Hixie,
  184. # [18:15] <Zakim> ... plinss, Bert, hober, trackbot, ed, TabAtkins, pjrm, shepazu, gsnedders, paul_irish, fantasai, CSSWG_LogBot
  185. # [18:15] * bradk is having horrble luck with phones this morning.
  186. # [18:16] <bradk> 'orrible
  187. # [18:16] <sylvaing> florian: regarding that proposal, this is not something that meant to be ready soon
  188. # [18:16] <glazou> bradk: not the only one, took me four attempts to join the call...
  189. # [18:16] <sylvaing> florian: but it is intended to demonstrate we can generalize the feature
  190. # [18:17] <Zakim> +howcome
  191. # [18:18] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
  192. # [18:18] <kojiishi> zakim, [ipcaller] is me
  193. # [18:18] <Zakim> +kojiishi; got it
  194. # [18:19] <sylvaing> jdaggett: I think there are two issues; one mail was about splitting features between L3 and L4. But I'd like to agree on a way to resolve the underlying issues vs. which subset is resolved in which level
  195. # [18:20] <sylvaing> fantasai: I don't think @text-transform is as mature as many other features in the spec
  196. # [18:20] <sylvaing> fantasai: @text-transform has all the issues raised against text-replace, for instance
  197. # [18:21] <Zakim> +Chris
  198. # [18:21] <sylvaing> fantasai: so I want to have this in L3. if we want to defer resolving full sized kana I'm fine with that. but I don't want to hold up Level 3 Text on the feature
  199. # [18:21] <ChrisL> (zakim was almost full, which is why some people could not connect)
  200. # [18:22] <sylvaing> howcome: I think we'd like to make sure we don't have a fork with EPUB who has a dependency on this feature
  201. # [18:22] <sylvaing> florian: how soon do we expect the spec to move forward?
  202. # [18:22] <sylvaing> fantasai: hopefully a couple of months
  203. # [18:22] * Joins: Rossen (Rossen@131.107.0.94)
  204. # [18:23] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.aa]
  205. # [18:23] <Zakim> -florianr
  206. # [18:24] <tantek> note: I've made what I think are the last necessary edits to publish a second LCWD of CSS3-UI, including postponing 'pointer-events' to CSS4-UI because it has had the most issues of any feature for this draft, and because it requires documenting the previously undocumented hit-testing model. Per the desire to move more mature features more quickly, it didn't make sense to hold up the rest of CSS3-UI for 'pointer-events', so it got bumped to CSS4-UI.
  207. # [18:24] <sylvaing> sylvaing suggests EPUB dependencies should check for actual use and implementation
  208. # [18:24] <Zakim> + +1.650.766.aabb
  209. # [18:24] <tantek> (cont'd) I'd inteded to checkin these edits before the telcon, but didn't quite make it.
  210. # [18:24] <bradk> zakim, aabb is me
  211. # [18:25] <Zakim> +bradk; got it
  212. # [18:25] <sylvaing> howcome: my concern is that if we do not solve this EPUB will define their own version of it
  213. # [18:25] <Rossen> Zakim, Microsoft.aa is Rossen
  214. # [18:25] <Zakim> +Rossen; got it
  215. # [18:25] <sylvaing> fantasai: I do not think that's a concern. EPUB will not include @text-transform in their September spec
  216. # [18:25] <tantek> (cont'd) And I wanted to give a heads up here in the channel before I sent email to www-style stating that in my opinion CSS3-UI is ready for another LCWD and I'm asking the WG to resolve on this matter and publish it as such before year-end.
  217. # [18:26] <sylvaing> fantasai: I'm not arguing against defining a generic mechanism; only that if the feature is not ready at this point it's holding up the rest of the spec. i'd rather move it to the next level
  218. # [18:26] <sylvaing> jdaggett: I think we should just explicitly mark this issue in the spec for now
  219. # [18:27] <sylvaing> florian: we could also remove it and re-introduce it later if ready
  220. # [18:28] * Parts: ksweeney (ksweeney@63.119.10.10)
  221. # [18:28] * sylvaing scribe having trouble with sound quality....
  222. # [18:29] <tantek> request: glazou, plinss: please add "request WG to consider CSS3-UI LCWD publication" to the agenda.
  223. # [18:29] <sylvaing> jdaggett: why don't we use our wiki page wording for the spec to identify the issue clearly and move forward
  224. # [18:29] <tantek> thanks for your consideration
  225. # [18:29] <tantek> editor's draft is up to date: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-ui/
  226. # [18:29] <jdaggett> i think we should simply add in the @text-transform rule
  227. # [18:30] <jdaggett> and mark it with an explicit issue
  228. # [18:30] <sylvaing> florian: the concern seems to be about how fast we can achieve consensus
  229. # [18:30] <glazou> tantek: we'll do that after current item
  230. # [18:30] <jdaggett> the full-size-kana value should be explicitly marked as an alternate
  231. # [18:33] <fantasai> Florian proposed marking the issue as "full-size-kana may be replaced by a generic @text-transform mechanism"
  232. # [18:33] <fantasai> I agree with this proposal
  233. # [18:33] <fantasai> I would like to go with that.
  234. # [18:34] <dbaron> tantek, I think 'pointer-events' is one of the more important things in the draft
  235. # [18:35] <Zakim> -??P65
  236. # [18:36] <sylvaing> RESOLVED indicate in CSS3 Text that "full-size-kana may be replaced by a generic @text-transform mechanism"
  237. # [18:36] <Zakim> +??P1
  238. # [18:36] <jdaggett> and this should be marked as an issue
  239. # [18:36] <danielweck> Zakim, ??P1 is me
  240. # [18:36] <Zakim> +danielweck; got it
  241. # [18:36] <jdaggett> not just a note
  242. # [18:36] <sylvaing> RESOLVED move other features proposed in Elika's mail to L4
  243. # [18:37] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Nov/0448.html
  244. # [18:37] <sylvaing> RESOLVED "full-size-kana may be replaced by a generic @text-transform mechanism" must be marked as a spec issue
  245. # [18:39] <sylvaing> florian: i am not a fan of line-break. i think it's improved but i still find issues with it
  246. # [18:39] <sylvaing> jdaggett: should we let Elika do all the edits and resume the discussion from a fresh draft
  247. # [18:39] <sylvaing> general agreement
  248. # [18:40] <glenn> prefers line-break be defined (not removed)
  249. # [18:40] <glazou> tantek: you on the call?
  250. # [18:40] <jdaggett> tantek: ping
  251. # [18:40] * Quits: howcome (howcome@88.89.78.85) (Connection reset by peer)
  252. # [18:40] * TabAtkins_ has to leave for a dentist appointment!
  253. # [18:40] <sylvaing> Topic: error in @page grammar
  254. # [18:40] <sylvaing> http://www.w3.org/mid/20111206221126.GA13407@pickering.dbaron.org
  255. # [18:41] <sylvaing> dbaron: I think this is just a mistake in the draft
  256. # [18:41] <sylvaing> glazou: I did not understand why the presence of RULESET in the media production was an error. For page, maybe, but for media?
  257. # [18:41] <sylvaing> dbaron: you're right.
  258. # [18:41] <sylvaing> glazou: otherwise I agree that RULESET is incorrect here. The grammar should be fixed
  259. # [18:42] <sylvaing> ACTION Bert to fix the grammar per dbaron's post http://www.w3.org/mid/20111206221126.GA13407@pickering.dbaron.org
  260. # [18:42] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  261. # [18:42] <trackbot> Created ACTION-412 - Fix the grammar per dbaron's post http://www.w3.org/mid/20111206221126.GA13407@pickering.dbaron.org [on Bert Bos - due 2011-12-21].
  262. # [18:42] <sylvaing> Topic: css3-values
  263. # [18:42] <sylvaing> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Dec/0342.html
  264. # [18:42] <sylvaing> fantasai: the first issue was defining ranges for CSS. This is on arronei for next week
  265. # [18:43] <sylvaing> fantasai: the next was about whether we add an ideographic advance unit
  266. # [18:43] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Oct/0888.html
  267. # [18:43] <sylvaing> jdaggett: I think this is very undefined
  268. # [18:43] * Quits: TabAtkins_ (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Ping timeout)
  269. # [18:44] <glazou> tantek: we need you on the call to discuss your extra agenda item...
  270. # [18:44] <sylvaing> jdaggett: it's not clear from the proposal what this means from an implementation standpoint
  271. # [18:44] <sylvaing> jdaggett: I think this feature is a candidate to move to L4; and in L4 I'm concerned about the definition
  272. # [18:45] <sylvaing> jdaggett: specifically the algorithm to use to calculate this metric
  273. # [18:45] <kojiishi> text-transform: full-size-kana
  274. # [18:45] <kojiishi> http://www.microsoft.com/typography/otspec/baselinetags.htm#ideoembox
  275. # [18:45] * sylvaing scribe not hearing koji so this may appear one-sided...
  276. # [18:46] <sylvaing> jdaggett: i don't think this is specified yet
  277. # [18:46] <sylvaing> jdaggett: i think this needs to move to L4 and get a better definition soon
  278. # [18:46] <sylvaing> RESOLVED move ideographic advance unit to Level 4 of css3-values
  279. # [18:46] <florianr> s/and/unless/
  280. # [18:46] <fantasai> http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/issues/204
  281. # [18:46] * Joins: howcome (howcome@88.89.78.85)
  282. # [18:46] <sylvaing> fantasai: the next issue is about the attr() syntax
  283. # [18:47] <sylvaing> fantasai: we're trying to align the attr() syntax with the model of radial-gradient()
  284. # [18:47] <sylvaing> fantasai: the proposal is to drop the comma between the attribute name and the type keyword
  285. # [18:48] <sylvaing> dbaron: we do have other functions that use commas as well such as counter()
  286. # [18:48] <sylvaing> howcome: we do use the comma in multiple places and I don't see a full proposal on how this will be replaced consistently
  287. # [18:48] <sylvaing> glazou: I would also expect attr() to be extended in the future
  288. # [18:49] <sylvaing> fantasai: right, and this is why the current syntax is awkward e.g. imagine listing multiple attributes...
  289. # [18:50] <howcome> a::after { content: "(see page " target-counter(attr(href, url), page, decimal) ")" }
  290. # [18:50] <sylvaing> fantasai: ...then adding new arguments and preserving a fallback value requires nesting the attr construct
  291. # [18:51] <Zakim> +tantek
  292. # [18:51] <tantek> Zakim, mute tantek
  293. # [18:51] <Zakim> tantek should now be muted
  294. # [18:51] <tantek> glazou - I'm on the call, will be en route, please use Zakim to mute/unmute me as necessary. Thanks!
  295. # [18:52] <glazou> tantek: ok
  296. # [18:52] * Quits: tantek (tantek@70.36.139.219) (Quit: tantek)
  297. # [18:52] * Joins: tpod (tpod@66.87.2.18)
  298. # [18:53] <tpod> Commas or spaces? This is not about clip right? ;)
  299. # [18:53] <glazou> lol tpod
  300. # [18:54] <sylvaing> ACTION fantasai and Tab to look at functional notation extensibility in general
  301. # [18:54] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  302. # [18:54] <trackbot> Created ACTION-413 - And Tab to look at functional notation extensibility in general [on Elika Etemad - due 2011-12-21].
  303. # [18:55] <Bert> (There is an infinite number of keywords, if foo() is taken, there is still foo2()...)
  304. # [18:55] <glazou> Zakim, unmute tantek
  305. # [18:55] <Zakim> tantek should no longer be muted
  306. # [18:55] <glazou> Zakim, mute tan
  307. # [18:55] <Zakim> tantek should now be muted
  308. # [18:56] * sylvaing tantek replaced by sound of death
  309. # [18:56] * ChrisL tantek is in a wind tunnel?
  310. # [18:56] <sylvaing> howcome: regarding css3-values, it no longer specified fr but Grid still uses it
  311. # [18:56] <sylvaing> fantasai: we suggest Grid should define fr
  312. # [18:57] <sylvaing> fantasai: once it's clear the unit needs sharing across specs then we can pull it into Values & Units
  313. # [18:57] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  314. # [18:57] <glazou> Zakim, unmute tantek
  315. # [18:57] <Zakim> tantek should no longer be muted
  316. # [18:57] <smfr> lol
  317. # [18:57] <danielweck> horrible sound
  318. # [18:57] * sylvaing tanted definitely on motorcyle. in the rain. on a clifftop.
  319. # [18:58] <danielweck> are you on the moon?
  320. # [18:58] * Bert bets it's the moon
  321. # [18:58] * glazou does not understand a word
  322. # [18:58] <smfr> he's also drunk
  323. # [18:58] * jdaggett oh my gawd...
  324. # [18:58] * Rossen tantek is in a space shuttle
  325. # [18:58] <danielweck> "one small step for..."
  326. # [18:58] * ChrisL the tin can and wet string is not working
  327. # [18:59] <glazou> OMG
  328. # [18:59] * sylvaing he sounds like he's screaming through all the butter Norway doesn't have
  329. # [18:59] <glazou> Zakim, mute tantek
  330. # [18:59] <Zakim> tantek should now be muted
  331. # [18:59] * jdaggett phew...
  332. # [18:59] <glazou> my poor ears...
  333. # [19:00] <sylvaing> fantasai: tantek noticed that pointer-events raises a lot of issues and proposed moving it to css4-ui
  334. # [19:00] <sylvaing> dbaron: I think this is one of the most important issues in css3-ui so I'd like to look at the issues list first
  335. # [19:01] <sylvaing> dbaron: I think we can define some things without defining everything
  336. # [19:01] <sylvaing> ACTION dbaron to review css3-ui pointer-events issues list
  337. # [19:01] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  338. # [19:01] <trackbot> Created ACTION-414 - Review css3-ui pointer-events issues list [on David Baron - due 2011-12-21].
  339. # [19:01] <sylvaing> Topic: Transitions from 'display: none'
  340. # [19:01] <sylvaing> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Dec/0353.html
  341. # [19:02] <sylvaing> Topic change: publication of Exclusions and Shapes WD
  342. # [19:02] <sylvaing> howcome: issues reported at the f2f are missing from the draft
  343. # [19:03] <tpod> Re pointer events
  344. # [19:03] <sylvaing> rossen: we agreed to add all the issues to the spec. we did that. we also agreed to use bugzilla to track all of the issues
  345. # [19:03] <sylvaing> rossen: as to the format of the actual issues, if you want an inline verbatim
  346. # [19:05] <sylvaing> dbaron: I think we explicitly discussed describing the issue in the spec. this ended up as a link to a bug number. I also cannot find the issue I'm looking for. specifically building exclusions on top of the positioning model instead of floats
  347. # [19:06] <Zakim> -danielweck.a
  348. # [19:06] <sylvaing> vhardy: clearly dbaron and howcome have a problem and we should update bugzilla to account for their issues. I'd like an agreement on how we track issues though as it helps me as an editor
  349. # [19:06] <sylvaing> vhardy: I'd rather not maintain issues in two places (in the spec and in bugzilla)
  350. # [19:06] <sylvaing> vhardy: maybe we can tool this
  351. # [19:07] <sylvaing> vhardy: but I'd like to have an agreement
  352. # [19:07] <sylvaing> vhardy: and that agreement should not be specific to just these two specs
  353. # [19:07] <Zakim> -jdaggett
  354. # [19:07] <dbaron> I don't think we need to turn everything into a general problem: the issue here was that a bunch of people wanted one particular issue to be noted in the prose of the spec so that readers were all aware of it.
  355. # [19:07] * Quits: ericm (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Quit: Page closed)
  356. # [19:07] * Quits: jdaggett (jdaggett@180.235.9.33) (Quit: jdaggett)
  357. # [19:07] <Zakim> -ericm
  358. # [19:08] * sylvaing dbaron was that resolved in minutes?
  359. # [19:08] <tpod> Problem is hit testing not prev defined
  360. # [19:08] * dbaron sylvaing I thought it was
  361. # [19:08] * dbaron sylvaing though the minutes weren't as clear as they should have been
  362. # [19:08] * sylvaing right. i recall the discussion.
  363. # [19:09] * Quits: Simon (simon@82.232.219.95) (Ping timeout)
  364. # [19:09] <glazou> guys it's already 3 past the hour
  365. # [19:09] * dbaron Zakim, who is noisy?
  366. # [19:09] <Zakim> -smfr
  367. # [19:09] * Quits: smfr (smfr@173.228.90.57) (Quit: smfr)
  368. # [19:09] * Zakim dbaron, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Rossen (42%), sylvaing (5%), fantasai (4%), smfr (7%)
  369. # [19:09] <glazou> Zakim, mute Rossen
  370. # [19:09] <Zakim> Rossen should now be muted
  371. # [19:10] <Zakim> -antonp
  372. # [19:10] * Parts: antonp (50a94e63@207.192.75.252)
  373. # [19:10] <fantasai> sylvaing: In general you can follow the guidelines and track issues elsewhere, but occasionally there's a major issue that people want to be noted directly in the spec. This is one of those occasions.
  374. # [19:11] <sylvaing> RESOLVED update spec prose to reflect positioning dependency issue reported by dbaron
  375. # [19:11] <ChrisL> ok by me
  376. # [19:11] * Rossen agrees
  377. # [19:12] <Rossen> Zakim, unmute Rossen
  378. # [19:12] <Zakim> Rossen should no longer be muted
  379. # [19:12] <sylvaing> ACTION dbaron to propose the prose he wants to see in Exclusions
  380. # [19:12] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  381. # [19:12] <trackbot> Created ACTION-415 - Propose the prose he wants to see in Exclusions [on David Baron - due 2011-12-21].
  382. # [19:12] <fantasai> fantasai: I suggest dbaron take an action item to propose the exact wording of this issue. I note that the minutes from the F2F do not reflect this.
  383. # [19:12] * sylvaing lasted an hour without fantasai taking over. yay broken screens!
  384. # [19:12] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
  385. # [19:12] <Zakim> -Chris
  386. # [19:12] <ChrisL> my regrets for next 3
  387. # [19:13] <Zakim> -kimberly
  388. # [19:13] <Zakim> -vhardy
  389. # [19:13] <Zakim> -glenn
  390. # [19:13] <Zakim> -sylvaing
  391. # [19:13] <Zakim> -howcome
  392. # [19:13] <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]
  393. # [19:13] <Zakim> -dbaron
  394. # [19:13] <Zakim> -Rossen
  395. # [19:13] <Zakim> -[Apple]
  396. # [19:13] <Zakim> -stearns
  397. # [19:13] <Zakim> -glazou
  398. # [19:13] <Zakim> -danielweck
  399. # [19:13] <Zakim> -bradk
  400. # [19:13] <Zakim> -Bert
  401. # [19:13] <Zakim> -kojiishi
  402. # [19:13] <Zakim> -tantek
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  408. # [19:14] <fantasai> TabAtkins: I suggest linking to your spec feed from the wiki
  409. # [19:14] * Quits: kojiishi (kojiishi@222.158.227.129) (Quit: Leaving...)
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  416. # [19:20] <Zakim> -divya
  417. # [19:25] <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, fantasai, in Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
  418. # [19:25] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  419. # [19:25] <Zakim> Attendees were ericm, divya, glazou, antonp, stearns, jdaggett, +1.603.957.aaaa, sylvaing, fantasai, kimberly, johnjan, danielweck, glenn, hober, dbaron, [Microsoft], vhardy,
  420. # [19:25] <Zakim> ... florianr, smfr, Bert, howcome, kojiishi, Chris, +1.650.766.aabb, bradk, Rossen, tantek
  421. # [19:26] * Quits: danielweck (danielweck@86.155.167.189) (Quit: danielweck)
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  434. # [19:55] <tantek> dbaron, following-up on pointer-events, the problems are both the issue rate *and* more importantly the fact that it involves/requires defining how hit-testing works in the web platform which I have a draft for but which is substantially newly documented functionality, and that's certainly not LCWD ready (nor would I expect it to be for months).
  435. # [19:56] <tantek> I'd rather get the current stable set of CSS3-UI features to CR *asap* so we can legitimately remove prefixes (if any), test for interop, and drop / postpone at-risk features as necessary to 4.
  436. # [19:59] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Yeah, that's a good idea.
  437. # [20:03] * Quits: tantek (tantek@99.22.229.14) (Quit: tantek)
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  461. # [23:39] <pheleas_frog> 5on5 - level : low ---- server off
  462. # [23:40] <pheleas_frog> SERVER: OFF || LEVEL: LOW || 5ON5
  463. # [23:40] <fantasai> paul_irish: IIRC that early in the game, there wasn't a practice of changing the specs to match implementations, only the other way 'round. IE was clearly buggy wrt the spec, and emeyer and written tests to show this. (See Acid 1, for example.)
  464. # [23:40] <fantasai> paul_irish: Also, WG technical discussion wasn't on the public list until 2007 or so.
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  475. # Session Close: Thu Dec 15 00:00:00 2011

The end :)