/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2012-01-06 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Jan 06 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #css
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  8. # [00:50] <leaverou> hober: isn't that basically better archives? Which is what Boris is suggesting I think
  9. # [00:57] <tantek_> woohoo! who wants to debate about Forums (some of the ugliest community communication UI to ever hit the web) ?
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  12. # [01:16] <hober> leaverou: yeah, i suppose. archives are typically read-only, whereas i was imagining something read-write
  13. # [01:16] <hober> tantek_: srsly
  14. # [01:16] <leaverou> hober: I think the main problem of the complainers is reading, not posting. But I might be wrong. At least for me though, that's what bothers me a bit, posting is fine
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  16. # [02:02] <tantek_> leaverou, indeed, the reading UI isn't great for mail archives, but at least it's fairly simple and clean.
  17. # [02:02] <tantek_> unlike forums, which are essentially miniature versions of myspace, with crap images for avatars and signatures and animated hooha etc.
  18. # [02:03] <leaverou> tantek_: if they are like that, it's because their owner made them like that. Forum software (most of it) can be configured in a number of different ways
  19. # [02:03] <tantek_> no it's due to the owner
  20. # [02:03] <tantek_> no more than myspace's crap was due to myspace's code
  21. # [02:04] <tantek_> it's due to users being able to customize it to put crap on it
  22. # [02:04] <tantek_> for both myspace and forums
  23. # [02:04] <leaverou> every forum software I've seen allows you to turn that kind of customizations off as an admin so that users can't do it
  24. # [02:04] <tantek_> leaverou - can you show me an example of well configured forum that doesn't look like crap?
  25. # [02:05] <tantek_> (i.e. in practice, forums look like crap, I don't care what the configuration options are in theory)
  26. # [02:05] <leaverou> tantek_: most forums are built by amateurs. A forum was my first web project too, I pretty much learned web development on it
  27. # [02:05] <leaverou> that's why we have tons of bad forums out there
  28. # [02:06] <tantek_> great, so when a non-amateur out there shows how a forum *could* be configured well (instead of merely handwaving about configuration options), then they'll be worth another look. until then, totally ignorable.
  29. # [02:06] <leaverou> I've seen some exceptions that are minimalistic and look & function nice, but didn't save the url, sorry
  30. # [02:07] <leaverou> tantek_: also, most forums have different goals to what a www-style forum would. Most forums want lots of users to be able to get lots of ads. Inevitably, they often succumb to what users want, like huge ugly signatures and fancy avatars and all that crap
  31. # [02:08] <leaverou> even the ones that aren't driven by ads but just from their owner's passion, the owner usually cares about having lots of users, so same thing applis
  32. # [02:08] <leaverou> *applies
  33. # [02:12] <leaverou> (that said, I'm not even certain about where I stand on this. I think with some improvements, the mailing list + Archive combo would be fine)
  34. # [02:12] <nimbu> kroc camen has a forum http://camendesign.com/nononsense_forum
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  37. # [02:16] <tantek_> it's probably worth writing up the problems with forums (in practice especially) on a wiki page.
  38. # [02:16] <tantek_> this isn't the first time I've seen this come up (someone proposing a forum to replace or accompany a mailing list in something standards related)
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  84. # [18:45] <fantasai> if someone would run the folowing testcase in IE and let me know which of the 4 boxes is multi-line, I'd appreciate it :)
  85. # [18:45] <fantasai> data:text/html;charset=utf-8,<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-%2F%2FW3C%2F%2FDTD HTML 4.01%2F%2FEN">%0D%0A<style type%3D"text%2Fcss">%0D%0Ap { border%3A solid%3B width%3A 1em%3B }%0D%0Aspan { white-space%3A pre%3B background%3A silver%3B }%0D%0A<%2Fstyle>%0D%0A<p><span> <%2Fspan><span> <%2Fspan><span> <%2Fspan><span> <%2Fspan><span> <%2Fspan><span> <%2Fspan><span> <%2Fspan>%0D%0A<p><span>艾<%2Fspan><span>艾<%2Fspan><span>艾<%2Fspan><span>艾<%2Fspan><span>艾<%2Fs
  86. # [18:45] * fantasai will otherwise test this later tonight
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  93. # [19:34] <leaverou> fantasai: if you want to test in IE, just use my browserstack account, I'll msg you the login details
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The end :)