/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2012-02-17 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Feb 17 00:00:01 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #css
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  10. # [00:20] <tantek_> shepazu - HTML5 went to Last Call with open issues. According to the process document itself, and AB interpretation thereof - we (CSSWG) *can* take a document with known open issues.
  11. # [00:20] <tantek_> take a document to LC
  12. # [00:28] <Ms2ger> I wouldn't cite HTML5 as an example of good process
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  27. # [01:09] <tantek_> here is the AB minutes where they decided a WG can take a spec to LCWD with open issues as long as those issues are documented: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ac-members/2011AprJun/0065.html (cc: shepazu Ms2ger fantasai plinss glazou)
  28. # [01:10] <shepazu> tantek_: you keep bringing it up as if it's a process issue, what I'm concerned about is resolving the technical issues
  29. # [01:10] <tantek_> I want to resolve the technical issues during LC
  30. # [01:10] <tantek_> not before
  31. # [01:11] <tantek_> I think we are stable enough in syntax+features to go to LC with documented open issues
  32. # [01:11] <tantek_> including the technical issues you mention
  33. # [01:12] <tantek_> I bring it up as if it's a process issue because in recent CSSWG meetings others (not you shepazu) have brought up process issue as a reason to block going to LC in these cases.
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  35. # [01:13] <shepazu> tantek_: then doesn't it seem like the path of least resistence is to simply resolve the technical issues before LC, to satisfy them?
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  37. # [01:13] <tantek_> no I'd like to reduce dependencies so we can move more quickly
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  39. # [01:13] <shepazu> tantek_: it's a little disrespectful of reviewers' time to have them read and comment on something you know you're going to change
  40. # [01:13] <tantek_> "least resistance" can result in taking far too long
  41. # [01:14] <tantek_> no it's not disrespectful if you have your open issues *documented* and are upfront about it in your LC (as HTML5) was
  42. # [01:14] <shepazu> I prefer to have indicators of relative stability on a sectional basis
  43. # [01:15] <tantek_> sure, sectional stability is useful, and editor's have the freedom to indicate that.
  44. # [01:15] <tantek_> editors
  45. # [01:15] <shepazu> tantek_: I am so not interested in solving a process issue that has dubious merit, when we need to solve the technical issues anyway
  46. # [01:15] <shepazu> this is a tiny spec, solving them should be easy
  47. # [01:16] <tantek_> if you're not interested in solving a process issue, then don't obstruct process. let the spec go to LCWD.
  48. # [01:16] <shepazu> tantek_: it's not that there are open issues, it's that there are glaring technical problems still to be solved
  49. # [01:17] <shepazu> I really don't think going to LC will solve anything, timewise
  50. # [01:18] <shepazu> I'm not sure what problems you think it's solving
  51. # [01:18] <tantek_> shepazu - please provide URLs to the specific issues you believe are "glaring technical problems still to be solved"
  52. # [01:19] <shepazu> tantek_: the fact that you can't have an origin for each transform, but have to have one origin for all transforms, is not author friendly
  53. # [01:20] <tantek_> URL to the respective bugzilla bug?
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  55. # [01:20] <shepazu> but if you want a URL http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/
  56. # [01:20] <tantek_> no to the issue
  57. # [01:20] <shepazu> tantek_: look for the word "ISSUE"
  58. # [01:21] <shepazu> there are 11 issues listed in the spec
  59. # [01:21] <shepazu> let's solve them
  60. # [01:22] <shepazu> we all agree they need solving
  61. # [01:22] <tantek_> my understanding is that the editors are tracking the issues for that spec in bugzilla - do each of those issues have a respective bugzilla bug? (preferably linked from their spot in the spec?)
  62. # [01:22] <tantek_> btw to be clear - I support a FPWD ASAP of CSS3 Transforms
  63. # [01:22] <tantek_> with or without LC
  64. # [01:23] <tantek_> so can we at least do that sooner rather than later?
  65. # [01:23] <shepazu> you're introducing *an additional* point, and a meta one at that, on which we will end up arguing (and are doing so right now), rather than solving the real problems
  66. # [01:23] <tantek_> i'm not introducing any new points
  67. # [01:23] <shepazu> I believe that if we solve the technical issues, nobody would argue whether or not to go to LC
  68. # [01:24] <shepazu> at that point, we would go to LC
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  70. # [01:24] <shepazu> going to LC is not the problem
  71. # [01:24] <shepazu> it's not even a solution
  72. # [01:24] <shepazu> it's simply a step
  73. # [01:25] <shepazu> tantek_: yes, the SVG WG has resolved to do FPWD ASAP, only waiting on CSS WG to also resolve
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  75. # [01:25] <shepazu> we could go to FPWD as early as tuesday after next, and possibly the thursday before
  76. # [01:26] <shepazu> (so, possibly next thursday)
  77. # [01:26] <stearns> argh. why does the styling for issues make it impossible to search for the word "issue"?!?!
  78. # [01:26] <shepazu> stearns: THANK YOU!
  79. # [01:27] <shepazu> I agree totally
  80. # [01:27] <shepazu> that's terrible usability
  81. # [01:27] <shepazu> it's a clever CSS hack, but it's a lousy way to make a spec
  82. # [01:28] <shepazu> it's also not accessible
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  84. # [01:28] <shepazu> TabAtkin1_: I blame you!
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  86. # [01:30] <shepazu> stearns: you're not the Adobe Alan Stearns, are you?
  87. # [01:30] <stearns> I am
  88. # [01:31] <shepazu> nice to meet you, though I have a feeling we've already met
  89. # [01:31] <shepazu> are you in Seattle?
  90. # [01:31] <stearns> and as such, I can smugly note that the alternate 'bug' styling in css3-regions lets you search for 'bug'
  91. # [01:31] <stearns> yes, in Seattle
  92. # [01:31] <shepazu> did we meet at a WG f2f?
  93. # [01:31] <stearns> I dragged you all up the hill for coffee once
  94. # [01:32] <shepazu> yes!
  95. # [01:32] <shepazu> you're an InDesign guy, right?
  96. # [01:32] <shepazu> I knew I knew your name
  97. # [01:33] <stearns> yes, originally (and PageMaker before that)
  98. # [01:34] <shepazu> are you active in ePUB?
  99. # [01:34] <stearns> not in the group itself, but I'm channeling Peter Sorotokin to the CSS WG
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  131. # [07:13] <glenn> just catching up on irc...
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  133. # [07:14] <glenn> tantek: if you think the work is ready for LC, then ask the WG for a consensus reading
  134. # [07:14] <glenn> if there is consensus, then it can move to LC regardless of open issues
  135. # [07:15] <glenn> if not, then you need to be more persuasive that it is the right thing to do
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  178. # [17:32] <Ms2ger> fantasai, hmm, "a combined Grid Template model"
  179. # [17:32] * Ms2ger drools a little
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  182. # [17:44] <fantasai> Ms2ger: MS did 50% of the work already, we just need to finish the job. :)
  183. # [17:44] <Ms2ger> Ah, well, lots of people have done the first 50% of layout specs :)
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  189. # [17:56] <tantek_> Msger +1
  190. # [17:57] <tantek_> Ms2ger +1
  191. # [17:57] <Ms2ger> Actually, s/layout//, I guess
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The end :)