/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2012-03-01 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Thu Mar 01 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #css
  3. # [00:17] * Joins: arronei (arronei@131.107.0.109)
  4. # [00:19] * Quits: arronei_ (arronei@131.107.0.76) (Ping timeout)
  5. # [00:27] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: Why did you mark Issue 15 (better define how image-orientation interacts with exif data) as needing WG review? It was accepted by smfr.
  6. # [00:27] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: check whether we need a normative statement to that effect
  7. # [00:27] <TabAtkins_> Ah, kk
  8. # [00:37] <fantasai> TabAtkins, dbaron: Does element() present a typing problem in 'content'?
  9. # [00:38] <TabAtkins_> What do you mean?
  10. # [00:38] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Well, it's not obviously an image type by its name
  11. # [00:38] <fantasai> TabAtkins: what if it's needed in e.g. content to get text out of an element?
  12. # [00:38] <TabAtkins_> Sure, because it's intended to eventaully be used more widely.
  13. # [00:38] <TabAtkins_> That wouldn't be a good name for such an ability.
  14. # [00:39] <fantasai> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-gcpm/#running-elements
  15. # [00:39] <TabAtkins_> At least, not by itself.
  16. # [00:39] <fantasai> maybe it needs to be element-image()
  17. # [00:40] <TabAtkins_> Huh. I didn't see that Hakon had made that change.
  18. # [00:40] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: I would just change that usage to element-text() instead.
  19. # [00:40] <fantasai> but that's not just the text
  20. # [00:40] <fantasai> for just the text, he uses string()
  21. # [00:41] <TabAtkins_> Oh! I see!
  22. # [00:41] <TabAtkins_> In that case, yeah, this is problematic, because you do want just a bare reference to an element.
  23. # [00:41] <TabAtkins_> But wait
  24. # [00:41] <TabAtkins_> He's not using element() that we defined.
  25. # [00:42] <TabAtkins_> He's using some other function that happens to share the same name, which is just paired with running().
  26. # [00:42] * Quits: kennyluck (kennyluck@114.25.243.187) (Quit: kennyluck)
  27. # [00:42] <fantasai> yeah
  28. # [00:42] <fantasai> Either way, we need to resolve the conflict
  29. # [00:42] <TabAtkins_> And actually, it seems that his usage is just regions.
  30. # [00:43] <fantasai> not really
  31. # [00:43] * Joins: kennyluck (kennyluck@114.25.243.187)
  32. # [00:43] <fantasai> it doesn't do chaining, and it selection mechanism is more sophisticated than that
  33. # [00:43] <TabAtkins_> Yes, but the underlying mechanism is identical.
  34. # [00:43] <fantasai> maybe? I'm not convinced
  35. # [00:44] <fantasai> his is page-sensitive
  36. # [00:44] <fantasai> in a way that regions is not
  37. # [00:44] <TabAtkins_> Yeah, you probably don't want to literally re-use the flow-to property, or perhaps do so with a running() value.
  38. # [00:44] <TabAtkins_> And flow-from a running() value or something.
  39. # [00:44] <TabAtkins_> Instead of using 'content'.
  40. # [00:44] * TabAtkins_ forgets which syntax we settled on for flow-form.
  41. # [00:45] * sylvaing is now known as sylvaing_away
  42. # [00:45] <TabAtkins_> Yeah, flow-from.
  43. # [00:46] <TabAtkins_> So, to opt into the special behavior variant he wants, just use the running() function in flow-to/from rather than a bare ident.
  44. # [00:46] <TabAtkins_> That puts you in a special type of region.
  45. # [00:46] <TabAtkins_> Where the region can only hold one element at a time, and you can grab it on a per-page basis.
  46. # [00:47] * fantasai sent an issue to the list, but forgot to put [css3-gcpm] in it...
  47. # [00:57] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  48. # [00:57] * Parts: Zakim (rrs-bridgg@128.30.52.169)
  49. # [01:02] * fantasai resends
  50. # [01:03] <stearns> TabAtkins, fantasai: the one-element-at-a-time region is something Alex Mog raised wrt templates wiki.csswg.org/spec/css3-region-templates
  51. # [01:03] <stearns> and it's part of IDPF templates
  52. # [01:04] <fantasai> I think this is slightly different
  53. # [01:05] <fantasai> stearns: in this case there's a per-page buffer
  54. # [01:05] <fantasai> stearns: and element() is pulling out of the per-page buffer into the @margin-boxes
  55. # [01:06] <stearns> in IDPF it's something called 'linger' - you can specify how many times an element will repeat. It's used for running headers and footers
  56. # [01:06] <TabAtkins_> Explicitly specifying it is kinda bad.
  57. # [01:07] <stearns> it defaults to forever
  58. # [01:07] <TabAtkins_> GCPM's design let's you, say, do a dictionary with the first and last word in the page margin, by putting all the words into a flow and then selecting out either 'first' or 'last'.
  59. # [01:08] <TabAtkins_> That particular use-case is best done with string-set or whatever, actually, but you get the idea.
  60. # [01:11] <fantasai> TabAtkins: what's the state of CSS Variables?
  61. # [01:11] * Joins: jdaggett (jdaggett@202.221.217.73)
  62. # [01:11] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Also, remember to request css-variables, not css3-variables...
  63. # [01:11] <TabAtkins_> Heh, yeah. It's already under css-variables.
  64. # [01:11] <fantasai> :)
  65. # [01:11] <TabAtkins_> I need to make the edits discussed in the thread, then request on Tuesday.
  66. # [01:12] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Request sooner than Tuesday /for/ Tuesday, you mean?
  67. # [01:12] <TabAtkins_> ...yes.
  68. # [01:13] * miketaylr is now known as miketaylr|
  69. # [01:13] * miketaylr| is now known as miketaylr||
  70. # [01:14] <jdaggett> TabAtkins_: ping me if you want me to look at wording...
  71. # [01:14] <TabAtkins_> jdaggett: kk
  72. # [01:18] * sylvaing_away is now known as sylvaing
  73. # [01:21] * Quits: vhardy_ (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Quit: Page closed)
  74. # [01:25] <fantasai> TabAtkins: whois krit?
  75. # [01:25] * fantasai trying to compile the attendees list
  76. # [01:26] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: No idea.
  77. # [01:26] <plinss> fantasai: whiteboard online in Shepherd, let me know what you think...
  78. # [01:26] * Quits: leaverou (leaverou@89.210.148.75) (Ping timeout)
  79. # [01:28] <fantasai> plinss: Cool!
  80. # [01:28] <fantasai> plinss: Seems to work
  81. # [01:29] <stearns> krit is dirk schulze
  82. # [01:29] <fantasai> plinss: Can you run a script that greps against Needs Work tests for NeedsWork=\S+ in the comments and puts those annotations into the whiteboard?
  83. # [01:29] * fantasai isn't sure how hard that is, hopes it's easy
  84. # [01:29] <fantasai> stearns: Thanks
  85. # [01:33] * Joins: leaverou (leaverou@89.210.92.121)
  86. # [01:37] <fantasai> TabAtkins: btw, once the spec hits LC, pretty much any comment should be logged
  87. # [01:37] <fantasai> TabAtkins: formally
  88. # [01:37] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Minor editorial things excepted
  89. # [01:37] <TabAtkins_> Yes, you told me that this morning.
  90. # [01:37] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Well, I said between LC and CR. :)
  91. # [01:38] <fantasai> TabAtkins: After CR gets logged too ^__^
  92. # [01:38] <plinss> fantasai: Sure
  93. # [01:38] * fantasai wanted to clarify that point
  94. # [01:38] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Once it's in LC, people should be able to assume that nothing changes unless they're explicitly told otherwise
  95. # [01:42] <tantek> fantasai - there are categories of things that change post Last Call
  96. # [01:43] <tantek> e.g. anything market "at risk" could be dropped at any time
  97. # [01:43] <tantek> *marked
  98. # [01:54] * Quits: tantek (tantek@70.36.139.112) (Quit: tantek)
  99. # [02:07] <fantasai> dbaron: What was the resolution on transition-* list lengths if transition-property is longer than the others?
  100. # [02:07] <fantasai> dbaron: It wasn't mentioned in the minutes, and not in the bug either
  101. # [02:07] <dbaron> it's in the email
  102. # [02:07] <dbaron> use transition-property, just like we use background-image
  103. # [02:07] <dbaron> fantasai,
  104. # [02:07] <dbaron> ^
  105. # [02:07] <fantasai> dbaron: yes, I got that
  106. # [02:08] <fantasai> dbaron: What happens if the other transition property is *shorter* than transition-property?
  107. # [02:08] <fantasai> dbaron: If it's longer, we truncate. Sure, no problem
  108. # [02:08] <dbaron> fantasai, just like backgrounds
  109. # [02:08] <dbaron> fantasai, repeat the list
  110. # [02:08] <dbaron> (and, like backgrounds, it doesn't affect the computed value)
  111. # [02:09] <fantasai> really?
  112. # [02:09] * fantasai thought repeating the list was a stupid idea, personally -- would have been better to repeat the first value
  113. # [02:11] <fantasai> would make it easier to have the bottom image tile and the rest no-repeat, which is imo a much commoner case than having alternate ones repeat...
  114. # [02:38] * miketaylr|| is now known as miketaylr|||
  115. # [02:38] * miketaylr||| is now known as miketaylr||||
  116. # [02:38] * Joins: jet (jet@63.245.220.240)
  117. # [02:38] * Quits: jet (jet@63.245.220.240) (Quit: jet)
  118. # [02:39] * sylvaing is now known as sylvaing_away
  119. # [02:44] <fantasai> dbaron: I think your suggestion to Florian for wording was not minuted
  120. # [02:44] <fantasai> All that was caught was RESOLVED: Add to "Relative units in media queries are based on the initial value."
  121. # [02:44] <fantasai> but didn't say what to add
  122. # [02:44] * Joins: jet (jet@63.245.220.240)
  123. # [02:45] <dbaron> that was after the transitions discussion, right?
  124. # [02:45] <fantasai> Media queries
  125. # [02:45] <fantasai> yes
  126. # [02:45] <dbaron> [2012-02-29 09:55:56] <glenn> dbaron: but may help clarify spec text, units never based on results of declarations
  127. # [02:45] <fantasai> Best I can interpolate is adding ";never based on the results of declarations"
  128. # [02:45] <fantasai> to that sentence
  129. # [02:45] <dbaron> yes, roughly, with a few more little words
  130. # [02:46] <dbaron> florian and I discussed it afterwards
  131. # [02:46] <fantasai> ok
  132. # [02:46] <fantasai> as long as that's clear
  133. # [02:46] <fantasai> b/c not very clear in the minutes :)
  134. # [02:46] <dbaron> [2012-02-29 10:12:14] <florianr> dbaron: I am not sure if the minutes have the exact wording you proposed for MQ. Here is what I have, is that what you proposed: "Relative units in media queries are based on the initial value, and units are never based on results of declarations."
  135. # [02:46] * fantasai tries to clarifie
  136. # [02:46] <dbaron> [2012-02-29 10:13:44] <dbaron> florianr, how about changing ", and" to ", which means that" ?
  137. # [02:47] <fantasai> nice
  138. # [02:47] * fantasai likes your suggested fix particularly
  139. # [02:47] * fantasai splices this into the minutes
  140. # [02:55] * Quits: miketaylr|||| (miketaylr@68.203.0.108) (Quit: Leaving...)
  141. # [02:57] * Parts: jet (jet@63.245.220.240)
  142. # [03:19] * Quits: alexmog_ (alexmog@131.107.0.81) (Ping timeout)
  143. # [03:26] * Quits: TabAtkins_ (tabatkins@216.239.45.4) (Ping timeout)
  144. # [03:30] * Joins: TabAtkins_ (tabatkins@216.239.45.4)
  145. # [03:48] * Joins: alexmog_ (alexmog@50.135.52.203)
  146. # [03:53] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: https://twitter.com/MoOx/statuses/173093535275421697
  147. # [04:50] * Joins: krit (Adium@24.6.231.253)
  148. # [05:02] * Quits: alexmog_ (alexmog@50.135.52.203) (Quit: alexmog_)
  149. # [05:09] * Quits: krit (Adium@24.6.231.253) (Quit: Leaving.)
  150. # [05:18] * Joins: krit (Adium@24.6.231.253)
  151. # [05:57] <kennyluck> the answer being image(att()) ?
  152. # [06:34] * Joins: myakura (myakura@110.233.178.43)
  153. # [07:00] * Quits: myakura (myakura@110.233.178.43) (Client exited)
  154. # [07:30] * Quits: krit (Adium@24.6.231.253) (Quit: Leaving.)
  155. # [09:07] * Joins: myakura (myakura@110.233.178.43)
  156. # [09:15] * Quits: jdaggett (jdaggett@202.221.217.73) (Quit: jdaggett)
  157. # [09:32] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@70.36.140.19) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  158. # [09:56] * Joins: florianr (florianr@213.236.208.22)
  159. # [10:29] * Joins: SimonSapin (simon@82.232.219.95)
  160. # [14:09] * Joins: ChrisL (ChrisL@128.30.52.169)
  161. # [15:17] * Joins: nimbu (Adium@24.18.47.160)
  162. # [15:22] * Quits: ChrisL (ChrisL@128.30.52.169) (Quit: Fire on main board error, client combusted)
  163. # [15:30] * Quits: danielfilho (danielfilh@187.31.77.7) (No route to host)
  164. # [15:32] * Joins: danielfilho (danielfilh@187.31.77.7)
  165. # [15:57] * Joins: glenn (gadams@71.218.127.172)
  166. # [16:19] * Joins: ksweeney (ksweeney@63.119.10.10)
  167. # [16:40] * Quits: nimbu (Adium@24.18.47.160) (Quit: Leaving.)
  168. # [16:47] * Joins: nimbu (Adium@67.42.84.37)
  169. # [17:47] * Joins: krit (Adium@192.150.10.201)
  170. # [17:58] * Parts: AryehGregor (Aryeh@72.229.29.65) (Leaving)
  171. # [18:05] * Joins: Ms2ger (Ms2ger@91.181.184.71)
  172. # [18:05] * Quits: nimbu (Adium@67.42.84.37) (Quit: Leaving.)
  173. # [18:09] * hober is now known as hober2
  174. # [18:09] * Joins: hober (ted@17.212.152.28)
  175. # [18:18] * Joins: miketaylr (miketaylr@68.203.0.108)
  176. # [18:45] * Quits: miketaylr (miketaylr@68.203.0.108) (Quit: Leaving...)
  177. # [18:52] * Joins: jet (jet@159.63.23.38)
  178. # [18:56] * Quits: SimonSapin (simon@82.232.219.95) (Ping timeout)
  179. # [18:58] * Quits: hober (ted@17.212.152.28) (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
  180. # [18:58] * hober2 is now known as hober
  181. # [19:12] * Quits: stearns (anonymous@192.150.22.5) (Quit: stearns)
  182. # [19:12] * Joins: stearns (anonymous@192.150.22.5)
  183. # [19:22] * Parts: ksweeney (ksweeney@63.119.10.10)
  184. # [19:27] * Quits: TabAtkins_ (tabatkins@216.239.45.4) (Quit: leaving)
  185. # [19:38] * Joins: TabAtkins_ (tabatkins@216.239.45.4)
  186. # [19:51] * Quits: myakura (myakura@110.233.178.43) (Client exited)
  187. # [19:56] <plinss> fantasai: whiteboard field populated, let me know if that's what you had in mind
  188. # [20:44] * Joins: miketaylr (miketaylr@68.203.0.108)
  189. # [20:58] * Joins: drublic (drublic@217.92.12.113)
  190. # [20:59] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@159.63.23.38)
  191. # [21:16] * Joins: cyril (chatzilla@203.12.172.254)
  192. # [22:45] * Quits: danielfilho (danielfilh@187.31.77.7) (Quit: be back in a few minutes)
  193. # [22:51] * Quits: Ms2ger (Ms2ger@91.181.184.71) (Quit: nn)
  194. # [23:21] * Joins: ksweeney (ksweeney@63.119.10.10)
  195. # [23:30] * Quits: jet (jet@159.63.23.38) (Quit: jet)
  196. # [23:35] * Joins: danielfilho (danielfilh@187.31.77.7)
  197. # [23:37] * Joins: jet (jet@159.63.23.38)
  198. # [23:38] * Parts: ksweeney (ksweeney@63.119.10.10)
  199. # [23:45] * Quits: krit (Adium@192.150.10.201) (Quit: Leaving.)
  200. # [23:55] * sylvaing_away is now known as sylvaing
  201. # [23:56] * Quits: drublic (drublic@217.92.12.113) (Client exited)
  202. # Session Close: Fri Mar 02 00:00:00 2012

The end :)