/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2012-04-04 / end

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# Session Start: Wed Apr 04 00:00:00 2012
# Session Ident: #css
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# [09:01] <glazou> hmmm, too late for fantasai apparently
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# [17:38] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/04/04-css-irc
# [17:38] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
# [17:38] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 29 minutes
# [17:38] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
# [17:38] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
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# [18:04] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
# [18:04] <Zakim> +??P2
# [18:04] <Zakim> + +8521616aaaa
# [18:04] <glazou> Zakim, ??P2 is me
# [18:04] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
# [18:05] <Zakim> + +1.206.324.aabb
# [18:05] <sylvaing> Zakim, aabb is sylvaing
# [18:05] <Zakim> +sylvaing; got it
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# [18:05] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
# [18:05] * Joins: krit (Adium@192.150.10.201)
# [18:06] <arronei> zakim, microsoft has me
# [18:06] <Zakim> +arronei; got it
# [18:06] <Zakim> +??P36
# [18:06] <Zakim> + +93550aacc
# [18:06] <Zakim> +Oliver_Goldman
# [18:06] <antonp> Zakim, aacc is me
# [18:06] <Zakim> +antonp; got it
# [18:06] <Zakim> + +1.650.766.aadd
# [18:06] <Zakim> + +1.206.550.aaee
# [18:07] <stearns> zakim, aaee is me
# [18:07] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
# [18:07] <bradk> Zakim, aaddis me.
# [18:07] <bradk> Zakim, aadd is me.
# [18:07] <Zakim> +stearns; got it
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# [18:07] <Zakim> I don't understand 'aaddis me', bradk
# [18:07] <krit> Zakim, Oliver_Goldman is me
# [18:07] <dbaron> Zakim seems pretty broken right now
# [18:07] <dbaron> it hung up on me
# [18:07] <Zakim> +bradk; got it
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# [18:07] <Zakim> +[Apple]
# [18:08] <dbaron> and didn't answer the first time; hung up the second time
# [18:08] <Zakim> +krit; got it
# [18:08] <hober> Zakim, Apple has hober
# [18:08] <Zakim> +Molly_Holzschlag
# [18:08] <fantasai> zakim, aaaa is me
# [18:08] <bradk> Zakim seems distracted
# [18:08] <JohnJansen> Zakim, Microsoft has JohnJansen
# [18:08] <vhardy_> Zakim, who is here
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# [18:08] <Zakim> + +1.415.832.aaff
# [18:08] <dbaron> Zakim, who is on the phone?
# [18:08] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.aa]
# [18:08] * mollydotcom thinks Zakim needs a permanent vacation ;)
# [18:08] <Zakim> +hober; got it
# [18:08] <Zakim> +fantasai; got it
# [18:08] <Zakim> +??P59
# [18:08] <Zakim> +JohnJansen; got it
# [18:08] <Zakim> + +1.415.766.aagg
# [18:08] <Zakim> vhardy_, you need to end that query with '?'
# [18:09] <florian_> Zakim, I might be ??P59
# [18:09] <Zakim> On the phone I see glazou, fantasai, sylvaing, [Microsoft], ??P36, antonp, krit, bradk, stearns, [Microsoft.a], [Apple], Molly_Holzschlag, +1.415.832.aaff, [Microsoft.aa], ??P59,
# [18:09] <Zakim> ... +1.415.766.aagg
# [18:09] <dbaron> Zakim, aagg is dbaron
# [18:09] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has JohnJansen
# [18:09] <Zakim> [Apple] has hober
# [18:09] <Katie> _Zakim, [Microsoft.aa] is me
# [18:09] <vhardy_> Zakim +1.415.832.aaff is me
# [18:09] <florian_> Zakim, I am ??P59
# [18:09] * bradk thinks Zakim should be replaced by something that can do voice recognition and auto-transcription
# [18:09] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.aaa]
# [18:09] <Zakim> -krit
# [18:09] <smfr> Zakim, y u no acknowledge my joining?
# [18:09] <glazou> bradk: eh
# [18:10] <Zakim> I don't understand 'I might be ??P59', florian_
# [18:10] <Zakim> +dbaron; got it
# [18:10] <Zakim> + +1.408.636.aahh
# [18:10] <Zakim> +florian_; got it
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# [18:10] <smfr> Zakin, aahh is me
# [18:10] <Zakim> I don't understand your question, smfr.
# [18:10] <glazou> regrets: dstorey, chrisl (potential), plinss (potential)
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# [18:10] <arno> Zakim, who just joined?
# [18:10] <Zakim> + +1.415.832.aaii
# [18:10] <dbaron> Zakim, aahh is smfr
# [18:10] <Zakim> I don't understand your question, arno.
# [18:10] <Zakim> +smfr; got it
# [18:11] <arno> Zakim, who is on the phone?
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# [18:11] * dbaron notes smfr needed an "m" rather than an "n" when addressing Zakim
# [18:11] <Zakim> On the phone I see glazou, fantasai, sylvaing, [Microsoft], ??P36, antonp, bradk, stearns, [Microsoft.a], [Apple], Molly_Holzschlag, +1.415.832.aaff, [Microsoft.aa], florian_,
# [18:11] <Zakim> ... dbaron, [Microsoft.aaa], smfr, +1.415.832.aaii
# [18:11] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has JohnJansen
# [18:11] <Zakim> [Apple] has hober
# [18:11] <arno> Zakim, aaii is me.
# [18:11] <Zakim> +arno; got it
# [18:11] <vhardy_> Zakim +1.415.832.aaff is me
# [18:12] <dbaron> Zakim, aaff is vhardy_
# [18:12] <Zakim> +vhardy_; got it
# [18:12] <Zakim> +Bert
# [18:12] * vhardy_ thanks dave
# [18:12] * fantasai can scribe, but needs someone to take over for b&b
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# [18:12] <vhardy_> glazou: any extra agenda items?
# [18:12] <vhardy_> molly: I have one for later.
# [18:12] <vhardy_> glazou: we need to start collecting items for the Hamburg F2F
# [18:13] <dbaron> http://wiki.csswg.org/planning/hamburg-2012
# [18:13] <vhardy_> glazou: all, please add your requests to the meeting.
# [18:13] <vhardy_> ... text-size adjust proposal by baron and tantek
# [18:13] <vhardy_> ... we have a request to move to an editor draft
# [18:13] <vhardy_> dbaron: I sent a draft.
# [18:14] <vhardy_> ... it is a small draft. I'd like it to stay self contained.
# [18:14] <vhardy_> ... I'd like to keep it as one document to advance it quickly
# [18:14] <vhardy_> glazou: we decided to move this as fast as possible if we start to work on it. Makes sense to keep it like this.
# [18:14] <vhardy_> ... my only problem is Issue #4 about % as values. This is undefined.
# [18:14] <vhardy_> dbaron: I don't know what they do. Someone needs to tell us.
# [18:15] <vhardy_> florian: I do not think there is a problem with publishing with that issue opened.
# [18:15] <vhardy_> ... should not effect publication.
# [18:15] <stearns> zakim, who is noisy?
# [18:15] <glazou> Zakim, mute vhardy_
# [18:15] <Zakim> vhardy_ should now be muted
# [18:15] <dbaron> florian: ... though I think we should drop percentages
# [18:15] <vhardy_> ... if we publish this draft, it is a good starting point.
# [18:15] <Zakim> +??P80
# [18:15] <Zakim> stearns, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: glazou (9%), Molly_Holzschlag (5%), florian_ (84%), dbaron (7%)
# [18:15] <kojiishi> zakim, ??p80 is me
# [18:15] <Zakim> +kojiishi; got it
# [18:15] <glazou> vhardy_: I muted you
# [18:15] <vhardy_> ... it is a weird feature. It does not describe the layout as such, but only when used with certain browser features.
# [18:15] <vhardy_> ... we do not have anything else like this.
# [18:16] <vhardy_> dbaron: we have features that are specific to implementations that scroll with scrollbars. We have screen v.s., print. This is a feature specific to impl...
# [18:16] <vhardy_> ... that do the text-size-adjust in a certain way. Not all mobile browsers, but some.
# [18:16] <vhardy_> glazou: any objection to move to an ED of the group?
# [18:16] <sylvaing> s/.../florian
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# [18:17] <sylvaing> (never mind, missed the name earlier)
# [18:17] <divya> zakim, unmute vhardy
# [18:17] <Zakim> vhardy_ should no longer be muted
# [18:17] <Zakim> +??P83
# [18:17] <fantasai> fantasai: When would we publish FPWD?
# [18:17] <glenn> +present glenn (irc only)
# [18:17] <vhardy_> glazou: when do we moved to FPWD?
# [18:18] <tantek> scribe, I am participating only by IRC this morning (for the minutes)
# [18:18] <fantasai> glazou: Issue #4 needs more work before we publish.
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# [18:18] <dbaron> dbaron: and maybe other things
# [18:18] <glazou> tantek: ED for text-sizeadjust granted
# [18:18] <vhardy_> ... I think issue #4 needs more work. Dbaron agrees that he wants to work more on the document before that.
# [18:18] <tantek> thank you glazou
# [18:18] <tantek> agree with dbaron
# [18:19] <vhardy_> RESOLUTION: Move text-size adjust to ED.
# [18:19] <Zakim> + +1.215.286.aajj
# [18:19] <vhardy_> molly: I wanted to report on the community group liaison. Including what Simon and Erik were working on, fragment identifiers.
# [18:19] <vhardy_> .... people are looking for more people to help.
# [18:19] * Joins: Phil (pcupp@131.107.0.109)
# [18:19] <vhardy_> glazou: no action required at this point?
# [18:20] <vhardy_> molly: no. But if you have interns or other people who would like to participate, send them to me.
# [18:20] <vhardy_> glazou: backgrounds and borders.
# [18:20] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Apr/0032.html
# [18:20] <vhardy_> ... one last issue requested and then request to move to CR.
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# [18:20] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Apr/0032.html
# [18:21] <vhardy_> fantasai: the issue is a request to what properties apply to ::first-line and :first-letter. We will clarify that they apply to first-letter. For first-line, CSS allows background, but borders are not. There are some
# [18:21] <vhardy_> ... discussions about this because borders affect the box model. There is several different ways to handle the situation. First proposal:
# [18:22] * Quits: Phil (pcupp@131.107.0.109) (Quit: Phil)
# [18:22] <vhardy_> .. first line takes all the background properties, may support the border properties and must not support the other ones. This is in the email.
# [18:22] * Joins: Phil (pcupp@131.107.0.109)
# [18:22] <vhardy_> .. there is a variation to put box shadow in the must not category.
# [18:22] <vhardy_> .. I do not think there is a good reason to do that because it does not affect layout.
# [18:23] <vhardy_> ... the third proposal is to include border-radius in the must support category. Then, there is a proposal to add the border image into the must support category.
# [18:24] <vhardy_> ... nobody participating feels strongly about requiring support for border-image.
# [18:24] <vhardy_> ... there was concerns about allowing box-shadow because it is not supported in IE 9 because it was forbidden before.
# [18:24] <vhardy_> ... proposal is to put boxh-shadow in the may category.
# [18:25] <fantasai> s/proposal/my preference/
# [18:25] <vhardy_> florian: agree on box-shadow and no strong feeling on others, but ok between 1 or 2.
# [18:25] <smfr> webkit already supports box-shadow on ::first-letter
# [18:25] <vhardy_> brad: prefer 3. Like to allow implementations to have border-image and box-shadow and border-image on the first line.
# [18:25] * fantasai we're talking about ::first-line
# [18:26] <vhardy_> fantasai: all proposals would allow these properties. 3 requires them.
# [18:26] <vhardy_> brad: I prefer requiring.
# [18:26] <smfr> webkit supports on ::first-line also
# [18:26] <vhardy_> glazou: others?
# [18:26] <vhardy_> smfr: 1 and 2 are my preference. No strong preference, leaning towards 2.
# [18:26] <dbaron> dbaron: I don't have a strong opinion
# [18:26] <vhardy_> dbaron: no strong opinion.
# [18:26] <smfr> s/smfr/?
# [18:26] <dbaron> s/smfr:/sgalineau:/
# [18:26] <vhardy_> glazou: seems like 2 is the easiest way for the time being?
# [18:27] <vhardy_> fantasai: that's my favorite.
# [18:27] <vhardy_> glazou: 2 acceptable compromize?
# [18:27] <vhardy_> brad: 2 allows border image but does not require it?
# [18:27] <vhardy_> fantasai: yes.
# [18:27] <vhardy_> brad: box shadow allowed but not required.
# [18:27] <vhardy_> fantasai: yes, I think that should be the case. Do you have an objection to that?
# [18:27] <vhardy_> sylvaing: no.
# [18:28] <vhardy_> RESOLVED: proposal #2 accepted for properties on ::first-line
# [18:28] <vhardy_> fantasai: with these two edits, I think the last two comments will turn green.
# [18:28] <vhardy_> bert: I think you are right. Checking the disposition of comments.
# [18:29] <vhardy_> glazou: John you sent a message about testing background and borders.
# [18:29] <Bert> -> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-background/issues-lc-2012 DoC
# [18:29] <vhardy_> john: I have not got an answer to my questions. My tests are still in the incoming and submitted folders. I do not yet know which parts are covered. Still work needed for the test suite.
# [18:30] <vhardy_> dbaron: the Mozilla tests are detailed tests of small sections of the spec.
# [18:30] <vhardy_> ... e..g., tests on vector images.
# [18:30] <vhardy_> fantasai: don't we have tests on other things?
# [18:30] <vhardy_> dbaron: there may be more we could contribute.
# [18:30] <vhardy_> glazou: this is an effort we should start now.
# [18:31] <vhardy_> ... bert you pasted a link to disposition of comments. I still see orange.
# [18:31] <vhardy_> bert: orange means we are waiting for acknowledgment from the commenters.
# [18:31] <vhardy_> glazou: I also see 3 open issues.
# [18:31] <vhardy_> bert: I think they should be green or orange.
# [18:31] <vhardy_> ... we should mark that as accepted.
# [18:31] <vhardy_> fantasai: we clarified the section that was confusing.
# [18:32] <vhardy_> glazou: issue #7 is opened and should be changed. 18 and 22?
# [18:32] <vhardy_> fantasai: we just resolved and I'll make the change.
# [18:32] <vhardy_> glazou: we can make the transition request to move to CR. objections?
# [18:32] <vhardy_> (silence)
# [18:33] <vhardy_> RESOLVED: Move Background and borders to CR
# [18:33] <fantasai> ACTION: fantasai and Bert, finish edits and update DoC
# [18:33] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
# [18:33] * RRSAgent records action 1
# [18:33] <trackbot> Created ACTION-456 - And Bert, finish edits and update DoC [on Elika Etemad - due 2012-04-11].
# [18:33] <vhardy_> glazou: CSS 2.1 margin collapsing.
# [18:34] <vhardy_> anton: we are looking at the CSS 2.1 errata items.
# [18:34] <Zakim> -??P83
# [18:34] <vhardy_> ... the idea is to propose some solutions, seek feedback and then fix by bits and then sign off.
# [18:34] <vhardy_> ... the ones we are going to look at right now have to do with margin collapsing and related to the issues discussed during the Paris F2F.
# [18:34] <vhardy_> ... there are 2 links in the agenda. Let's concentrate on the second one.
# [18:34] <antonp> ./akamaitest4/httpdocs/hostmap.ini./turnberry/httpdocs/hostmap.ini./akamaitest/httpdocs/hostmap.ini./rhombuschengduhotel/httpdocs/fullsite/hostmap.ini./pervanovo/httpdocs/hostmap.ini./external/httpdocs/hostmap.ini./parkinnberlinmobile/httpdocs/hostmap.ini./akamaitest3/httpdocs/hostmap.ini./test_eventportal/httpdocs/hostmap.ini./mobilebooking/httpdocs
# [18:35] <dbaron> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Mar/0618.html
# [18:36] <Zakim> +??P1
# [18:36] <glazou> Belated Regrets: szilles
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# [18:36] * Quits: vhardy_ (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Quit: Page closed)
# [18:36] <vhardy__> ScribeNick: vhardy__
# [18:36] <dbaron> Zakim, ??P1 is Haili_Zhang
# [18:36] <Zakim> +Haili_Zhang; got it
# [18:37] <vhardy__> antonp: the 3 issues in that link were discussed in Paris. The proposals were discussed with Aaron. I am hoping we can get agreement.
# [18:37] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Mar/0052.html
# [18:37] <antonp> proposals: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Mar/0052.html
# [18:37] <vhardy__> ... the specific proposals are on the link
# [18:38] <vhardy__> ... there was a strange note on 10.7 on the effects of min/max height. I am proposing a simplification of this note.
# [18:38] <vhardy__> ... the proposal is to delete the second sentence of the note.
# [18:38] * Bert : we can't hear you anton
# [18:38] <antonp> I'll dial in again!
# [18:38] <glazou> antonp: can't hear you
# [18:38] <glazou> ok
# [18:38] <Zakim> -antonp
# [18:39] <Zakim> +antonp
# [18:39] <dbaron> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16049#c1
# [18:40] <vhardy__> antonp: the second sentence is not necessary and it is confusing.
# [18:40] <vhardy__> glazou: I suggest we discuss this one first.
# [18:40] <vhardy__> florian: what was the sentence attempting to do?
# [18:41] <vhardy__> fantasai: it was trying to say these steps did not affect margin collapsing. Removing the sentence, removes the clarification. We need to reword in a less confusing way.
# [18:41] <vhardy__> ... could be "for example, margin collapsing is not affected because based on computed values and not used values"
# [18:41] <vhardy__> glazou: the sentences are in a note?
# [18:42] <vhardy__> antong: yes.
# [18:42] <glazou> s/antong/antonp
# [18:42] <vhardy__> ... I think that whatever we say raises more questions than it helps.
# [18:42] <vhardy__> fantasai: any problem with my suggested rewording?
# [18:42] <vhardy__> antonp: yes.
# [18:43] <vhardy__> ... the majority of layout is in the same position. When we tried to reword, it seemed odd to attract attention to a particular part of layout. I still don't think it is necessary.
# [18:43] <vhardy__> arronei: I think it raises questions. I understand we say 'for example' and it still raises questions. It is loosely related, but it should be taken as two separate pieces.
# [18:44] <vhardy__> ... if it is clear that it only works with computed values, let it say that.
# [18:44] <vhardy__> fantasai: for people who are not familiar with the spec., it helps understand the difference.
# [18:44] <vhardy__> ... and how the distinction can affect the computations.
# [18:45] <vhardy__> glazou: it seems to me that the two sentences should to be glued together in the same note. We could have one for anton and arronei's issue and the one for fantasia's point.
# [18:45] <vhardy__> florian: I have a mild preference for fantasai's proposal.
# [18:45] <vhardy__> molly: I think that if someone comes against used/computed for the first time, clarification as an example is useful.
# [18:46] <vhardy__> ... leaning towards that.
# [18:46] <vhardy__> glazou: is fantasai's proposal a compromise you can live with?
# [18:46] <vhardy__> arronei: I think that what fantasia proposes is fine, with 'for example' prefix. May need some rewording.
# [18:46] * fantasai wonders if dbaron is on the call
# [18:47] <vhardy__> RESOLVED: replace the sentence with Fantasai's proposal.
# [18:47] <vhardy__> glazou: next one?
# [18:47] <fantasai> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16036
# [18:48] <vhardy__> antonp: we discussed in some details in Paris. margins collapse all the way through an element that had a non-zero min-height. We decided we would prevent some aspects of the
# [18:48] <vhardy__> margin collapse to avoid the case described in the bug.
# [18:48] <vhardy__> ... the proposal is to add a new bullet to the section describing which adjoining margins collapse.
# [18:48] <glazou> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16036
# [18:48] <antonp> Proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Mar/0052.html
# [18:49] <vhardy__> glazou: proposal is not in the bug.
# [18:49] <vhardy__> antonp: I will do that as the outcome of this call.
# [18:49] <vhardy__> florian: is that identical to the F2F discussion?
# [18:49] <vhardy__> antonp: yes, it is identical.
# [18:50] <vhardy__> florian: I agree with the F2F conclusion and still agree.
# [18:50] <vhardy__> arronei: we did not want to change the f2f discussion, just make sure the changes are happening in the right places.
# [18:50] <vhardy__> glazou: any objections?
# [18:51] <vhardy__> fantasai: the suggestion in the bug and email is different.
# [18:51] <vhardy__> ... why the differences.
# [18:51] <vhardy__> antonp: there is a long history, emails on the mailing list. Negociating the cleanest way to specify what we now say. Editorial differences.
# [18:51] <vhardy__> .. about clarity.
# [18:52] <vhardy__> fantasai: I see.
# [18:52] <vhardy__> antonp: in the bug report, we were trying to tweak the definition of what was adjacent. The current proposal talks about preventing collapsing in some cases.
# [18:52] <vhardy__> .. we decided it was better to focus on the collapsing element of this rather than the adjacent element of it.
# [18:53] <vhardy__> florian: reading the sentence makes sense and it says the same thing we discussed at the f2f.
# [18:53] <vhardy__> fantasai: I am ok with it.
# [18:53] <vhardy__> ... I'd like dbaron's opinion.
# [18:53] <vhardy__> antonp: this does not affect adjointness at all.
# [18:54] <vhardy__> ... this prevents certain margins from collapsing. Are we contradicting other parts that say that margins collapse.
# [18:54] <vhardy__> dbaron: I believe the defintion of adjointness is transitive.
# [18:54] <vhardy__> antonp: this is the subject of another post on the agenda.
# [18:55] <vhardy__> dbaron: I'd rather say they are not adjoining rather than say they do not collapse.
# [18:55] <vhardy__> fantasai: would that be the proposal in the bug report?
# [18:55] <vhardy__> antonp: checking.
# [18:56] <vhardy__> antonp: this was part of a discussion we had. Aron's preference was to not make them adjoining as well.
# [18:57] <vhardy__> ... but, to me, it does not make a whole of conceptual sense. They are adjoining, but they do not collapse.
# [18:57] <vhardy__> arronei: some times, they are adjoining, so it is hard to say they are not in these cases.
# [18:58] <vhardy__> florian: in the layman interpretation of adjoining, they may be or not.
# [18:58] <vhardy__> antonp: I do not think there is a problem with the definition of adjoining. It is supposed to reflect an intuitive understanding.
# [18:58] <vhardy__> .. if people want to make it not adjoining, I'd like to understand why.
# [19:00] <dbaron> dbaron: The reason that we don't want these to collapse is that in most cases the min-height causes these margins not to be next to each other.
# [19:00] <vhardy__> dbaron: the reason we don't want collapsing here, is that in most cases, the min-height causes the margins to not be next to each other and should not collapse.
# [19:00] <vhardy__> antonp: another aspect, is that this is hard to word.
# [19:00] <vhardy__> .. you have to specify the conditions. They are very specific.
# [19:01] * sylvaing is starting to suspect the LHC was built to figure out margin collapsing
# [19:01] <vhardy__> .. on the one hand, I understand the argument that they are not always next to each other, but it is really hard to word the sentence about them not being adjoining.
# [19:02] <glazou> sylvaing: lol
# [19:02] * fantasai thinks we shouldn't have made min-height bottom margins collapse with their children
# [19:02] <vhardy__> florian: If there was an easy way to say they are not adjoining, I would prefer that, but since there is not I am find with Antonp's proposal.
# [19:03] <vhardy__> glazou: dbaron, are you ok?
# [19:03] <vhardy__> dbaron: hard to say, I'll go with whatever they say?
# [19:03] <vhardy__> s/say?/say
# [19:03] <vhardy__> glazou: objections to the proposal?
# [19:03] <vhardy__> RESOLVED: proposal in email 0052 accepted.
# [19:03] <vhardy__> glazou: only 4mn remaining.
# [19:04] <vhardy__> dbaron: was that the second proposal in the email?
# [19:04] * Quits: SimonSapin (simon@82.232.219.95) (Ping timeout)
# [19:04] <vhardy__> glazou: yes.
# [19:04] <vhardy__> dbaron: we have not talked about the 3rd one?
# [19:04] <vhardy__> antonp: right
# [19:04] <fantasai> s/accepted/accepted for bug 16036/
# [19:04] <glazou> http://css-tricks.com/bandwidth-media-queries/
# [19:04] <vhardy__> glazou: we have a proposal relayed by leaverou about a new media query.
# [19:05] <vhardy__> florian: I have thought about this (about bandwidth). While this could be interesting, I am not sure how you would use it or make it work.
# [19:05] <vhardy__> glazou: on mobile devices, this would allow you to switch between Wifi, 3G, others...
# [19:06] <vhardy__> florian: you could be connected to multiple at the same time. You could have wifi slower than 3D, etc...
# [19:06] <Katie> My concern is about mobile...the fact that speeds vary frequently.
# [19:06] <dbaron> s/3D/3G/
# [19:06] <vhardy__> ... if you switch from one connection type to another while loading, it is hard to say what should happen.
# [19:06] <vhardy__> ... not sure there is a good way to use that.
# [19:06] <vhardy__> glazou: what do others think?
# [19:06] * antonp agrees with Katie
# [19:07] <vhardy__> fantasai: I would say that if you have to make a decision at the beginning and not change that later during the life of the document. That makes it easier to define.
# [19:07] <dbaron> I don't think authors want us to reload to use smaller images when the bandwidth goes down
# [19:07] <vhardy__> .. it would be useful in other cases (e.g., dial-up connection).
# [19:07] <vhardy__> glazou: enough people have concerns with it and we do not need to work on it for the next level of media queries.
# [19:08] <vhardy__> florian: the proposal needs to be more specific.
# [19:08] <vhardy__> ACTION: Florian to respond to Lea's email on the mailing list.
# [19:08] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
# [19:08] * RRSAgent records action 2
# [19:08] <trackbot> Created ACTION-457 - Respond to Lea's email on the mailing list. [on Florian Rivoal - due 2012-04-11].
# [19:08] <vhardy__> sylvaing: I think use cases are missing.
# [19:08] <vhardy__> glazou: yes, that is a good answer.
# [19:08] <Katie> cheers
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# [19:09] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
# [19:09] <Zakim> Attendees were +8521616aaaa, glazou, +1.206.324.aabb, sylvaing, arronei, +93550aacc, antonp, +1.650.766.aadd, +1.206.550.aaee, [Microsoft], stearns, bradk, krit, Molly_Holzschlag,
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The end :)