/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2012-04-18 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Apr 18 00:00:01 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #css
  3. # [00:02] <fantasai> kennyluck: still working through your other issues, so you've got us busy for awhile yet ;)
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  7. # [00:24] <krit> plinss: btw.According to the model at http://wiki.csswg.org/test/css2.1/review#process the new mode for reviews on shepherd should be called "Accepted".
  8. # [00:24] <plinss> fantasai: ping
  9. # [00:28] <plinss> krit: thanks, working on adding it now
  10. # [00:28] <krit> plinss: thanks :)
  11. # [00:28] <plinss> np
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  16. # [01:17] <kennyluck> fantasai, I think I am finally done with all my V&U issues.
  17. # [01:17] * kennyluck is going to sleep now
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  26. # [01:44] <krit> plinss: ping
  27. # [01:44] <plinss> krit: pong
  28. # [01:45] <krit> plinss: I would like to try the script from https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2011AprJun/0164.html Is it supposed to still work?
  29. # [01:45] <krit> plinss: I'd like to test it on CSS Transforms
  30. # [01:45] <plinss> looking
  31. # [01:45] <plinss> yes, it still works
  32. # [01:46] <plinss> you just need to add the proper hashtag for your test suite: CSS3-TRANSFORMS_DEV
  33. # [01:46] <plinss> (to the script link in your spec)
  34. # [01:46] <krit> plinss: should it work locally as well?
  35. # [01:46] <plinss> yes
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  38. # [01:48] <krit> plinss: <html><body><p><strong>NOTICE: </strong>Not a valid specification url</p></body></html>
  39. # [01:49] <plinss> where do you get that from?
  40. # [01:49] <krit> plinss: http://test.csswg.org/harness/status.php?s=CSS3-TRANSFORMS_DEV&x=file%3A%2F%2F%2FUsers%2Fdschulze%2FDocuments%2Fhg%2Fcsswg%2Fcss3-transforms%2FOverview.html
  41. # [01:49] <krit> GET http://test.csswg.org/harness/status.php?s=CSS3-TRANSFORMS_DEV&x=file%3A%2F%2F%2FUsers%2Fdschulze%2FDocuments%2Fhg%2Fcsswg%2Fcss3-transforms%2FOverview.html 400 (Bad Request)
  42. # [01:49] <krit> plinss: that is the response from the server
  43. # [01:49] <plinss> where did that url come from?
  44. # [01:50] <krit> plinss: I embedded the scipt like described in the post
  45. # [01:50] <krit> plinss: that is the result on the web console
  46. # [01:50] <krit> plinss: <script src='http://test.csswg.org/harness/annotate.js#CSS3-TRANSFORMS_DEV' type='text/javascript' defer></script>
  47. # [01:51] <plinss> hang on, let me try locally
  48. # [01:51] <fantasai> plinss: pong
  49. # [01:52] <plinss> fantasai: I was wondering what level of access setting 'accepted' should be restricted to
  50. # [01:52] <plinss> currently is anyone who can commit changes...
  51. # [01:52] <krit> plinss: that is also what the wiki says. Everyone
  52. # [01:53] <krit> plinss: "Anyone with the ability to read and understand the http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Specs/ and a thorough understanding of the http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/guidelines.html can review additions and changes to the Approved collection."
  53. # [01:53] <plinss> the question is, _everyone_ or just those who have the right to insert reviewer links
  54. # [01:54] <plinss> or should we have another level of rights between public and committer
  55. # [01:55] <plinss> krit: anyone can review and make comments in Shepherd, the question is, who can set status to accepted
  56. # [01:55] <krit> hm, also right
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  58. # [01:55] <fantasai> plinss: I'll bias to everyone
  59. # [01:55] <fantasai> plinss: that's why we have the approver role
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  61. # [01:56] <plinss> fantasai: but there's an implication that someone accepting a test can insert a reviewer link
  62. # [01:56] <plinss> and not everyone can do that
  63. # [01:56] <fantasai> plinss: should be able to yes
  64. # [01:56] <fantasai> plinss: no?
  65. # [01:56] <plinss> we don't have public push access
  66. # [01:56] <plinss> to the repo
  67. # [01:57] <fantasai> plinss: oh, right. All committers, then
  68. # [01:57] <plinss> eventually there will be a web UI to insert reviewer links, but then Shepherd will be modifying the test, so there should still be a restriction to committers...
  69. # [01:57] <plinss> I think
  70. # [01:58] <plinss> krit: reload your spec now
  71. # [01:59] <krit> plinss: works!
  72. # [01:59] <krit> plinss: Thanks a lot!
  73. # [01:59] <plinss> krit: I just needed to set the Overview.html home page on the spec setup in the harness
  74. # [01:59] <plinss> glad it works
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  79. # [02:41] <plinss> krit: Shepherd now has 'accepted' status
  80. # [02:41] <plinss> when you add a reviewer link, it auto changes the status
  81. # [02:41] <krit> plinss: Great! That is awesome!
  82. # [02:42] <plinss> krit: np
  83. # [02:42] <plinss> I made a trivial edit to the files you already reviewed so Shepherd updated them already
  84. # [02:43] <krit> plinss: what happens if the Owner denies the patch and sets the state to "Needs work" and the author just uploads a simple change. Will the status change to "Accepted" automatically, since the reviewer link is on the test?
  85. # [02:43] <plinss> no the link only has an effect the first time Shepherd sees it
  86. # [02:43] <krit> plinss: In this case it should stay at Awaiting review, no?
  87. # [02:44] <krit> plinss: ok, that means on the second review I just set the flag in shepherd
  88. # [02:44] <krit> plinss: that is great
  89. # [02:44] <plinss> right, or add another reviewer link
  90. # [02:44] <krit> plinss: really awesome!
  91. # [02:45] <plinss> note that if you review and find issues, you need to file the issue as a comment in Shepherd _after_ you push the reviewer link and manually set the status to 'needs work'
  92. # [02:45] <plinss> or simply don't put the reviewer link in until you accept the test, just file issues directly in Shepherd
  93. # [02:45] <krit> plinss: yes, I think that is what the wiki recommands anyway
  94. # [02:46] <krit> plinss: http://test.csswg.org/shepherd/search/spec/CSS3-TRANSFORMS/status/accepted/ it works! :)
  95. # [02:46] <plinss> Shepherd already had all the reviewer link functionality, it just only worked for those that had approval rights and set the status to 'approved'
  96. # [02:46] <plinss> it was fairly simple to hook in the accepted state
  97. # [02:46] <krit> plinss: so it was a change in the rights managment :)
  98. # [02:47] <plinss> sort of, mostly adding the new status level
  99. # [02:47] <plinss> also, approvers now get a link on the home page to tests in the 'accepted' state stating 'Awaiting Approval'
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  101. # [02:55] <krit> plinss: great. So tests do not get forgotten. Thanks a lot for the fast investigation.
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  103. # [02:56] <plinss> krit: no problem
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  105. # [03:02] <fantasai> plinss++ :)
  106. # [03:04] <plinss> fantasai: nows there's more links for you to put into your home page mockup :-)
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  111. # [04:08] <fantasai> plinss: heh
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  147. # [17:51] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/04/18-css-irc
  148. # [17:51] <plinss> zakim, this will be style
  149. # [17:51] <Zakim> ok, plinss; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 16 minutes
  150. # [17:51] <plinss> rrsagent, make logs public
  151. # [17:51] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, plinss
  152. # [18:01] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
  153. # [18:02] <Zakim> +??P2
  154. # [18:02] <florianr> Zakim, I am ??P2
  155. # [18:02] <Zakim> +florianr; got it
  156. # [18:02] * Joins: glazou (glazou@85.168.27.11)
  157. # [18:02] <Zakim> +plinss
  158. # [18:03] <Zakim> +??P0
  159. # [18:03] * Joins: oyvind (oyvinds@213.236.208.22)
  160. # [18:04] <glazou> Zakim, ??P0 is me
  161. # [18:04] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
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  165. # [18:06] <Zakim> +sylvaing
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  168. # [18:07] <Zakim> +hober
  169. # [18:07] <Zakim> +smfr
  170. # [18:07] <Zakim> +stearns
  171. # [18:08] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  172. # [18:08] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  173. # [18:08] <arronei> zakim, microsoft has me
  174. # [18:08] <Zakim> +arronei; got it
  175. # [18:08] * Joins: JohnJansen (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  176. # [18:08] <Zakim> +antonp
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  178. # [18:09] <tantek> good morning
  179. # [18:10] <Zakim> + +1.415.308.aaaa
  180. # [18:10] <Zakim> +??P62
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  182. # [18:10] <Zakim> + +1.650.275.aabb
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  184. # [18:10] <bradk> Zakim, aabb is me
  185. # [18:10] <Zakim> +bradk; got it
  186. # [18:11] <JohnJansen> Zakim, Microsoft has JohnJansen
  187. # [18:11] <Zakim> +JohnJansen; got it
  188. # [18:11] <Zakim> + +1.415.832.aacc
  189. # [18:11] <vhardy_> Zakim, aacc is me
  190. # [18:11] <Zakim> +vhardy_; got it
  191. # [18:11] <stearns> Zakim, aaaa is krit
  192. # [18:11] <Zakim> +krit; got it
  193. # [18:11] <plinss> zakim, ?P62 is fantasai
  194. # [18:11] <Zakim> sorry, plinss, I do not recognize a party named '?P62'
  195. # [18:12] <plinss> zakim, P62 is fantasai
  196. # [18:12] <Zakim> sorry, plinss, I do not recognize a party named 'P62'
  197. # [18:12] <plinss> zakim, who is here?
  198. # [18:12] <Zakim> On the phone I see florianr, plinss, glazou, sylvaing, hober, smfr, stearns, [Microsoft], [Microsoft.a], antonp, krit, ??P62, bradk, vhardy_
  199. # [18:12] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has JohnJansen
  200. # [18:12] <Zakim> On IRC I see vhardy_, bradk, JohnJansen, arronei, dstorey, antonp, oyvind, glazou, RRSAgent, Zakim, tantek, Ms2ger, ksweeney, florianr, drublic, SimonSapin, kennyluck, logbot,
  201. # [18:12] <Zakim> ... paul___irish, ed, krijnh, Echoes, fantasai, stearns, shepazu, TabAtkins_, hober, Liam, isherman, kojiishi, gsnedders, danielfilho, CSSWG_LogBot, vhardy, sylvaing, plinss,
  202. # [18:12] <Zakim> ... alexmog, shans, pjrm, Hixie, Bert, trackbot
  203. # [18:12] <fantasai> ScribeNick: fantasai
  204. # [18:13] <fantasai> Florian: Wanted to add new editors to CSS Device Adaptation
  205. # [18:13] <florianr> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2012AprJun/0073.html
  206. # [18:13] * Joins: nimbu (Adium@192.150.10.201)
  207. # [18:13] <fantasai> Vincent: We're looking internally to see if someone might be able to join as well
  208. # [18:13] <fantasai> plinss: Please take time to add agenda topics to Hamburg wiki
  209. # [18:14] <fantasai> plinss: And some of those there are vague; please add more detail
  210. # [18:14] <fantasai> plinss: One issue left on margin collapsing?
  211. # [18:14] * Joins: smfr (smfr@173.228.90.231)
  212. # [18:14] <fantasai> antonp: I'd like to work on other 2.1 issues than that one
  213. # [18:14] <fantasai> antonp: so let's postpone, and for next week I'll try to prepare some other ones
  214. # [18:14] <fantasai> plinss: Ok, ping me when it's ready
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  216. # [18:15] <alexmog_> zakim, microsoft has me
  217. # [18:15] <Zakim> +alexmog_; got it
  218. # [18:15] <fantasai> Florian: Current editor for CSS Device Adaptation is going on paternity leave, so we're proposing two new editors from Opera myself and ?
  219. # [18:15] <Zakim> + +47.21.65.aadd
  220. # [18:15] <Zakim> +??P80
  221. # [18:15] <fantasai> Florian: We also invite people from other vendors to join, help us move this forward
  222. # [18:15] <florianr> s/?/√ėyvind Stenhaug/
  223. # [18:15] <dstorey> zakim, ??P80 is me
  224. # [18:15] <Zakim> +dstorey; got it
  225. # [18:15] <Zakim> +??P83
  226. # [18:16] <fantasai> Vincent: What's the status of this module?
  227. # [18:16] <fantasai> Florian: Some open issues, and some editorial work
  228. # [18:16] <fantasai> Florian: Don't think there is a public test suite
  229. # [18:16] * Joins: howcome (howcome@88.89.78.85)
  230. # [18:16] <fantasai> Sylvain: We have a partial implementation, might provide feedback soon
  231. # [18:16] <fantasai> Florian: Would be much appreciated
  232. # [18:17] <fantasai> Florian: Noticed you only implemented part of the spec, want to know if that's because you haven't done it yet or thought better to not implement it.
  233. # [18:17] <fantasai> Sylvain: Mostly we don't have it yet
  234. # [18:17] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Add new editors from Opera to Device Adaptation
  235. # [18:17] <stearns> list intro: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Apr/0278.html
  236. # [18:17] <fantasai> Topic: CSS Regions
  237. # [18:17] <stearns> ED section: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-regions/#regions-visual-formatting-details
  238. # [18:18] <fantasai> stearns: Added new sections to Regions to handle auto-height regions
  239. # [18:18] <fantasai> stearns: We've been validating this in code in a WebKit branch, making sure what we have there is implementable
  240. # [18:18] <fantasai> stearns: would like people to take a look and give us some feedback
  241. # [18:18] <fantasai> stearns: that's all
  242. # [18:19] <fantasai> howcome: I went through it, and I find it hard to read/understand/comprehend that part
  243. # [18:19] <fantasai> howcome: It may be right, but I find it hard to review and relate to the regions spec
  244. # [18:19] <fantasai> howcome: when the #1 concern that I and others have raised is not addressed yet
  245. # [18:19] <fantasai> howcome: I would have preferred if that hurdle could be passed.
  246. # [18:19] <fantasai> howcome: Right now, it doesn't seem like this should be something to work on
  247. # [18:20] <fantasai> stearns: It's definitely something we're working o
  248. # [18:20] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.aa]
  249. # [18:20] <fantasai> stearns: what you do with the regions box is not related to how you size it
  250. # [18:20] <fantasai> stearns: we want the sizing algorithm independent of where the box comes from
  251. # [18:20] <fantasai> stearns: I agree we need to address box generation
  252. # [18:20] <Zakim> +TabAtkins
  253. # [18:20] <fantasai> stearns: don't know that that issue gates auto-sizing regions
  254. # [18:20] * Joins: Katie (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  255. # [18:20] <glazou> q+
  256. # [18:20] * Zakim sees glazou on the speaker queue
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  258. # [18:21] <fantasai> howcome: I agree they may be independent, but there's not much motivation to review the spec when this hurdle remains in the way
  259. # [18:21] <sylvaing> didn't we agree to address this as part of the template work in Paris?
  260. # [18:21] <fantasai> Vincent: We are working on page templates, syntax for generating regions
  261. # [18:21] <fantasai> Vincent: We're trying to address the big issues you and others have raised; auto-sizing was one of those issues
  262. # [18:21] <fantasai> Vincent: We're not ignoring the other issues
  263. # [18:21] <Katie> zakim, who's on the call?
  264. # [18:21] <Zakim> On the phone I see florianr, plinss, glazou, sylvaing, hober, smfr, stearns, [Microsoft], [Microsoft.a], antonp, krit, ??P62, bradk, vhardy_, +47.21.65.aadd, dstorey, ??P83,
  265. # [18:21] * tantek is on IRC only for this meeting.
  266. # [18:21] <Zakim> ... [Microsoft.aa], TabAtkins
  267. # [18:21] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has alexmog_
  268. # [18:21] <Zakim> +ChrisL
  269. # [18:22] <plinss> ack glazou
  270. # [18:22] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  271. # [18:22] <fantasai> glazou: I reviewed document with a fresh eye
  272. # [18:22] <fantasai> glazou: I did not find it hard to read or understand
  273. # [18:22] <fantasai> glazou: I found it pretty easy to read and understand
  274. # [18:22] <fantasai> glazou: The thing I originally missed, and discovered rereading it
  275. # [18:22] <fantasai> glazou: Is that generating boxes is completely independent of notion of regions
  276. # [18:22] <Katie> zakim, [Microsoft.a] is Katie
  277. # [18:22] <Zakim> +Katie; got it
  278. # [18:22] <fantasai> glazou: Explanation in Section 7 is needed to explain how regions work
  279. # [18:22] <fantasai> glazou: could be independent of generation of boxes
  280. # [18:23] <fantasai> glazou: We might need for other things in CSS
  281. # [18:23] <fantasai> glazou: Without that, document is not understandable as a whole
  282. # [18:23] <glazou> Zakim, ack me
  283. # [18:23] <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
  284. # [18:23] * Joins: arno (arno@192.150.10.200)
  285. # [18:23] <fantasai> antonp: I found it hard to get on the first read through. What could help is if someone maybe posts a summary of what's going on in Section 7, to orient the reader a bit?
  286. # [18:24] <Zakim> -bradk
  287. # [18:25] <Zakim> +bradk
  288. # [18:25] <fantasai> stearns: maybe I'll post an outline of the section to the list
  289. # [18:25] <fantasai> bradk: I thought Section 7 was easy to understand, esp with examples
  290. # [18:26] <fantasai> bradk: What was hard for me, doesn't have an exact definition of "fragment"
  291. # [18:26] <fantasai> bradk: There's no terminology section
  292. # [18:26] <fantasai> bradk: Afraid it might mean different things in different parts of the document
  293. # [18:26] <fantasai> Vincent: Referencing CSS3 Fragmentation Spec
  294. # [18:26] <fantasai> stearns: I think I have a task to go through the document and make sure we have all relevant spec links
  295. # [18:26] <fantasai> stearns: We should have more links to css3-break
  296. # [18:27] <fantasai> bradk: Fragmentation spec talks about portions that occur between breaking opportunities, right?
  297. # [18:27] <fantasai> bradk: Seemed like in some parts it meant something different, like portion of element that's within the region box or something like that
  298. # [18:27] <fantasai> bradk: Want to make sure it's consistent
  299. # [18:27] <fantasai> Vincent: If you have any places you notice, point us at them
  300. # [18:28] <sylvaing> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Apr/0239.html
  301. # [18:28] <glazou> sylvaing: and nothing related to animations and margin-collapsing ?-)
  302. # [18:28] <fantasai> Topic: Animaton-delay
  303. # [18:29] <Zakim> - +47.21.65.aadd
  304. # [18:29] <fantasai> sylvaing: Made a fix to clarify ...
  305. # [18:29] <fantasai> sylvaing: But case that's not covered -- negative animation delays
  306. # [18:29] <glazou> Zakim, mute me
  307. # [18:29] <Zakim> glazou should now be muted
  308. # [18:29] <fantasai> sylvaing: If you have a 2s animation and you have a -1s delay, your animation starts in the middle
  309. # [18:29] <glazou> Zakim, unmute me
  310. # [18:29] <Zakim> glazou should no longer be muted
  311. # [18:29] <fantasai> sylvaing: but if you have -5s animation, what does it mean?
  312. # [18:30] <fantasai> sylvaing: Implementations agree that if you have repetition of 1, and you have delay greater than duration, nothing happens
  313. # [18:30] <fantasai> sylvaing: However if you have more, and you ask for a delay, then you might skip repetitions
  314. # [18:30] * fantasai unsure if that was quite right
  315. # [18:31] <fantasai> Florian: Looks like you didn't test Opera. The behavior we have in Opera, we don't like it
  316. # [18:31] <fantasai> smfr: Need to define what happens if fill mode is greater than duration
  317. # [18:32] <fantasai> smfr: do you jump to last keyrame even though you didn't run the animation?
  318. # [18:32] <fantasai> smfr: For all cases where the animation either never runs or completes instantaneously, we need to decide what fill-mode does
  319. # [18:32] * Quits: vhardy_ (vhardy@206.80.17.29) (Connection reset by peer)
  320. # [18:32] * Joins: vhardy_ (vhardy@206.80.17.29)
  321. # [18:32] <fantasai> smfr: Also define whether event fires
  322. # [18:32] <oyvind> I assume that should say "if you have fill mode and delay is greater than duration"
  323. # [18:33] * Quits: howcome (howcome@88.89.78.85) (Ping timeout)
  324. # [18:33] * fantasai wonders what happened to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Apr/0110.html
  325. # [18:33] <oyvind> or rather "if you have fill mode and negative delay of greater magnitude than duration"
  326. # [18:33] * fantasai wonders if it ever got filed
  327. # [18:33] <fantasai> plinss: Any objections?
  328. # [18:34] <smfr> fantasai: i don't think it did
  329. # [18:34] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Accept Sylvain's proposal
  330. # [18:34] <fantasai> smfr, :/
  331. # [18:34] <fantasai> Topic: Values and Units
  332. # [18:34] <TabAtkins_> ScribeNick: tantek
  333. # [18:34] <fantasai> ScribeNick: fantasai
  334. # [18:34] <tantek> ?
  335. # [18:34] <glazou> URL ?
  336. # [18:34] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: Awhile back, resolved to find minimum required ranges
  337. # [18:35] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: we asked arron for those numbers, but he didn't get back to us for awhile, so we made some numbers up
  338. # [18:35] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: yesterday he suggested 2^27-1 for all numeric types
  339. # [18:35] <glazou> is there a URL for the current topic ?
  340. # [18:35] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: He said it doesn't actually match minimums in IE in all places, but thinks it's reasonable
  341. # [18:36] <fantasai> Florian: Opera used to have extremely random sizes
  342. # [18:36] <Ms2ger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Apr/0403.html
  343. # [18:36] <Ms2ger> glazou, ^
  344. # [18:36] <fantasai> Florian: We recently changed to use 32-bit, but considering moving to 24-bit representation
  345. # [18:36] <fantasai> Florian: So we might go back low
  346. # [18:36] <ChrisL> 2^24 -1 then?
  347. # [18:36] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: That still seems like a large limit
  348. # [18:36] <glazou> thanks Ms2ger
  349. # [18:37] <gsnedders> ChrisL: Yeah
  350. # [18:37] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: Should be more than needed for anything except z-index
  351. # [18:37] <fantasai> fantasai: The goal here is to be conservative, so low numbers should be fine
  352. # [18:37] <glazou> and we may need something expressing MAX_RANGE_VALUE
  353. # [18:37] * ChrisL z-index is an unrestrained binary coded decimal? z-index:-200000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
  354. # [18:38] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: Ok, we'll use 2^24-1; if anyone has another concern bring it up within the week
  355. # [18:38] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: Another issue is repetitions of component values.
  356. # [18:38] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: We picked 30
  357. # [18:38] <fantasai> Florian: We used to have a limit of 32, but now limited only by memory
  358. # [18:38] <fantasai> Florian: So we're fine either way
  359. # [18:38] <fantasai> sylvaing: ???
  360. # [18:38] <bradk> Wasn't there some talk about making z-index into a float?
  361. # [18:38] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: Any time the grammar has a repetition, e.g. + or *, how many are required
  362. # [18:39] <glazou> chained lists in memory are so hard to implement ? ;-)
  363. # [18:39] <fantasai> Florian: I believe IE was limited to 20 in some cases
  364. # [18:39] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: calc(), I think
  365. # [18:39] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: Also have a 30-term min on calc
  366. # [18:39] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: So, we'll put this in, and people can object if it's too high; we'll lower it if necessary
  367. # [18:39] <Zakim> -krit
  368. # [18:40] <glazou> glazou: good strategy
  369. # [18:40] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: We can even do that in CR, since it won't make anyone invalid that was valid before
  370. # [18:40] * Joins: krit (Adium@192.150.10.201)
  371. # [18:40] <fantasai> RESOLVED: 2^24-1 minimum for numeric types, 30-component minimum for repetitions, 30-component minimum for calc(), adjust lower if necessary later
  372. # [18:40] <fantasai> glazou: Should that be tested?
  373. # [18:41] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: Yes, the whole point is to allow testing
  374. # [18:41] * sylvaing arronei had not slept for years due to the lack of normative limits on these.....now he's going to party for a month.
  375. # [18:41] <fantasai> talk about testing this
  376. # [18:42] <smfr> q+
  377. # [18:42] * Zakim sees smfr on the speaker queue
  378. # [18:42] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: nother issue
  379. # [18:42] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: Kenny brought up the really fun situation...
  380. # [18:42] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: Right now, when we have attr(), we do early syntax checking if the type and the fallback are appropriate for the place
  381. # [18:42] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: I can give an example, where this is still confusing
  382. # [18:42] * glazou W3C just changed my affiliaten to "Organization 1" !!!
  383. # [18:42] <TabAtkins_> box-shadow: attr(size px, inset) 5px 10px blue;
  384. # [18:43] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: So, in this, whether you interpret the attr() as a pixel size or the 'inset' keyword, but you get completely different meanings out of the two
  385. # [18:43] * sylvaing glazou, i guess that's a disruptive innovation...
  386. # [18:43] * glazou sylvaing: thank you sylvaing :)
  387. # [18:43] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: If you have multiple attrs(), you have to do combinatorial checking of possible values
  388. # [18:43] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: We went and restricted it to say that if attr() is the sole value of the property, you can do whatever you want
  389. # [18:44] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: But if you use it as a component value, the fallback has to be the same type as the declared attr type
  390. # [18:44] <fantasai> fantasai: I'd like to have dbaron check on this before we close
  391. # [18:44] <plinss> ack smfr
  392. # [18:44] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  393. # [18:44] <fantasai> smfr: Going back to ... sometime ago I proposed some text about roundtripping
  394. # [18:45] <fantasai> smfr: If you supply value that's too large, it gets truncated, you write it back out it shoudl roundtrip
  395. # [18:45] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: Could add some specific requirements if that's needed
  396. # [18:45] <fantasai> smfr: ... z-index ...
  397. # [18:45] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: Requirement is that you clamp to the nearest supported value
  398. # [18:45] <fantasai> smfr: So it clamps and then roundtrips, ok that's fine
  399. # [18:46] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: I don't think we have anything else right now
  400. # [18:46] <fantasai> fantasai: Stay tuned, we'll have lots of issues to resolve next week!
  401. # [18:46] <fantasai> Topic: Baselines of Flexbox
  402. # [18:46] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  403. # [18:46] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: The issue was a) we didn't define the baseline of a flexbox
  404. # [18:46] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: The possibilities are either baselin of first-child, or somehow do what tables do (don't remember what they do)
  405. # [18:47] <fantasai> alexmog_: We came to a conclusion for our implementation
  406. # [18:47] * Joins: PhilCupp (pcupp@131.107.0.114)
  407. # [18:47] <fantasai> alexmog_: Baseline of first child is baseline of flexbox
  408. # [18:47] <fantasai> alexmog_: But we didn't have per-item alignment
  409. # [18:47] <fantasai> alexmog_: I think what we had then is still ok
  410. # [18:47] <fantasai> alexmog_: If there are items with baseline-alignment sharing baseline, reasonable for that to be baseline of flexbox. Otherwise take first one
  411. # [18:48] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Baseline of flexbox is baseline of baseline-aligned boxes if any, otherwise take first child
  412. # [18:48] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: Second part is, how do you determine baseline of the first child
  413. # [18:49] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: Proposal is use baseline of first child's display type
  414. # [18:49] * glazou has a 30-seconds extra agenda item
  415. # [18:49] <fantasai> Florian: We'd prefer not to do that, becasue if we consider things in terms of display-inside, display-outside, your display-outside would be something like flexbox-item, so you can't distinguish inline-block and block
  416. # [18:49] * fantasai agrees with Florian
  417. # [18:50] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: So in practice, we could use the 2.1 conversion table for this
  418. # [18:50] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: I don't care much either way, but several implementers said using display type makes sense to them
  419. # [18:51] <TabAtkins_> http://www.w3.org/mid/87pqbfkcex.fsf@aeneas.oslo.osa
  420. # [18:51] <fantasai> fantasai: It's implementable, beacuse we can always look up the computed style, but that doesn't necessarily mean it makes sense
  421. # [18:52] * sylvaing alternative: flexbox item with the highest z-index wins!
  422. # [18:52] <fantasai> alexmog_: I think flexbox child would have it's display type, and just have an internal display-outside of flexbox-item
  423. # [18:53] <fantasai> Florian: In that case, you shouldn't be using display-outside of inline/block to determine different alignments
  424. # [18:53] <fantasai> alexmog_: That's what I'm saying, inline-block and block should behave the same
  425. # [18:53] <fantasai> alexmog_: Related issue is that suppose you have flexbox with one item, and that's inline-block or block or table with table cell
  426. # [18:53] <fantasai> alexmog_: each with different definition of baseline
  427. # [18:54] <fantasai> alexmog_: no way to make us actually ignore that internal baseline entirely and say that I want the baseline of that box be the bottom of the box
  428. # [18:54] <fantasai> alexmog_: Or can i?
  429. # [18:54] <fantasai> fantasai: I think there were some proposals for that. Might be added to Line Layout module
  430. # [18:55] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: Think we can defer that to later
  431. # [18:56] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Use the table for converting display types to block-level types to determine baselines; effectively this is using display-inside
  432. # [18:57] <fantasai> glazou: Announce that Backgrounds and Borders / Image Values moved to CR
  433. # [18:57] <fantasai> glazou: missing announcements
  434. # [18:57] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: yeah, fantasai and I were working all day on css3-values
  435. # [18:57] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: will get to that
  436. # [18:57] <TabAtkins_> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?product=CSS&component=Flexbox&;resolution=---
  437. # [18:58] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: I think there are less than 6 weeks of work left on Flexbox, so propose to move to LC
  438. # [18:58] <fantasai> fantasai: no
  439. # [18:58] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: If there are other issues to bring up, appreciate that happening now
  440. # [18:58] <ChrisL> that is being ready in 6 weeks
  441. # [18:59] <ChrisL> and there should be no open issues, so its a stable document for reviewers
  442. # [18:59] <fantasai> fantasai: ...
  443. # [19:00] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: I don't think there are any major issues left.
  444. # [19:01] <fantasai> ChrisL: If you think you have only one week of work left, then come back in a week and ask for Last Call
  445. # [19:01] <fantasai> alexmog_: I think we're done, we don't have anything else
  446. # [19:01] <ChrisL> I agree with fantasai that if there are pending edits, do them first before going to last call
  447. # [19:01] <fantasai> fantasai: I disagree, and I would like to see the alignment issues addressed before LC
  448. # [19:01] <fantasai> plinss: I agree with fantasai [...]
  449. # [19:02] <fantasai> plinss: Major issues / minor issues, whatever.
  450. # [19:02] <fantasai> plinss: Want to present things for people to review.
  451. # [19:02] <ChrisL> so defer that issue as out of scope
  452. # [19:03] <sylvaing> can we just accept/postpone LC?
  453. # [19:04] <fantasai> ....
  454. # [19:04] * ChrisL wishes we wouldn't try to rewrite the process every time
  455. # [19:04] <fantasai> Florian: zero bugs is hard to get to
  456. # [19:04] <fantasai> Florian: But you shouldn't go to LC with bugs that you aren't willing to defer to next level
  457. # [19:05] * sylvaing ChrisL, but if we fix up the z-index it'll work!
  458. # [19:05] <fantasai> fantasai: If you are making significant changes between LC and CR, you need to do another LC. You're not gaining anything there.
  459. # [19:05] <glazou> let's collapse the margins of the flex box spec first
  460. # [19:05] <Zakim> -ChrisL
  461. # [19:05] <stearns> it's not LC, it's -w3c-LC
  462. # [19:05] <fantasai> Anton: If you've got a bunch of pending edits you haven't made, then it's not really a Last Call, it's another Working Draft
  463. # [19:06] * vhardy_ need to step out.
  464. # [19:07] <Zakim> -vhardy_
  465. # [19:07] <fantasai> glazou: Going to LC is decision of the WG. Decisions of the WG is made base don review of the members. Asking for review before transition request
  466. # [19:07] <fantasai> is fair
  467. # [19:07] <fantasai> sylvaing: maybe we should talk about actual issues?
  468. # [19:07] * glazou does not see a consensus about going to LC anyway
  469. # [19:08] <fantasai> florian: have a small question, fantasai has said several times that shouldn't go to LC until dbaron reviews.
  470. # [19:08] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: AFAIK dbaron is deferring to dholbert
  471. # [19:08] * Quits: SimonSapin (simon@82.232.219.95) (Ping timeout)
  472. # [19:09] <fantasai> plinss: We don't have consensus to go to LC. So work on the issues, and we'll ...
  473. # [19:09] <fantasai> come back to it later
  474. # [19:09] * glazou has to run, sorry people, bye
  475. # [19:09] * stearns also has to go
  476. # [19:10] <fantasai> sylvaing: There's some issues that require WG discussion, e.g. renaming everything and going to LC are incompatible
  477. # [19:10] <Zakim> -glazou
  478. # [19:10] <Zakim> -stearns
  479. # [19:10] <fantasai> antonp: What do I need to review here?
  480. # [19:10] * Quits: glazou (glazou@85.168.27.11) (Quit: glazou)
  481. # [19:10] <fantasai> antonp: Is bugzilla + current editor's draft what's needed to review this thing?
  482. # [19:10] <fantasai> plinss: Everyone please review
  483. # [19:10] <Zakim> -Katie
  484. # [19:10] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.aa]
  485. # [19:10] <fantasai> Meeting closed.
  486. # [19:10] <Zakim> -TabAtkins
  487. # [19:11] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
  488. # [19:11] <Zakim> -??P62
  489. # [19:11] * Quits: Katie (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Quit: Page closed)
  490. # [19:11] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  491. # [19:11] * Quits: JohnJansen (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Quit: Page closed)
  492. # [19:11] <Zakim> -sylvaing
  493. # [19:11] <Zakim> -plinss
  494. # [19:11] * Quits: PhilCupp (pcupp@131.107.0.114) (Quit: PhilCupp)
  495. # [19:11] <Zakim> -florianr
  496. # [19:11] <Zakim> -hober
  497. # [19:11] <Zakim> -dstorey
  498. # [19:11] <Zakim> -??P83
  499. # [19:11] * Quits: antonp (50a94e63@109.169.29.95) (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
  500. # [19:11] <Zakim> -bradk
  501. # [19:11] <Zakim> -smfr
  502. # [19:11] * Quits: bradk (bradk@99.7.175.117) (Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/ )
  503. # [19:14] * Quits: tantek (tantek@76.115.51.221) (Quit: tantek)
  504. # [19:15] * Quits: dstorey (Adium@67.180.84.179) (Quit: Leaving.)
  505. # [19:16] <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, antonp, in Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
  506. # [19:16] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  507. # [19:16] <Zakim> Attendees were florianr, plinss, glazou, sylvaing, hober, smfr, stearns, arronei, antonp, +1.415.308.aaaa, +1.650.275.aabb, bradk, JohnJansen, +1.415.832.aacc, vhardy_, krit,
  508. # [19:16] <Zakim> ... alexmog_, +47.21.65.aadd, dstorey, [Microsoft], TabAtkins, ChrisL, Katie
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  524. # [20:20] * Quits: nimbu (Adium@192.150.10.201) (Quit: Leaving.)
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  526. # [20:27] * Quits: alexmog_ (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Ping timeout)
  527. # [20:58] * Joins: leaverou (leaverou@207.239.114.206)
  528. # [20:58] * Joins: tantek (tantek@76.115.51.221)
  529. # [21:02] * Quits: nimbu (Adium@192.150.10.201) (Quit: Leaving.)
  530. # [21:08] * Quits: vhardy_ (vhardy@206.80.17.29) (Quit: vhardy_)
  531. # [21:22] * Quits: leaverou (leaverou@207.239.114.206) (Quit: leaverou)
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  533. # [21:27] * Quits: leaverou (leaverou@207.239.114.206) (Quit: ttyl laters everyone!)
  534. # [21:36] * sylvaing is now known as sylvaing_away
  535. # [21:43] * Quits: dstorey (Adium@144.189.101.1) (Quit: Leaving.)
  536. # [21:43] * Parts: ksweeney (ksweeney@63.119.10.10)
  537. # [22:10] * Joins: dstorey (Adium@144.189.101.1)
  538. # [22:42] * Joins: vhardy_ (vhardy@206.80.17.29)
  539. # [22:47] * Quits: vhardy_ (vhardy@206.80.17.29) (Client exited)
  540. # [22:47] * Joins: vhardy_ (vhardy@192.150.10.201)
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  543. # [23:22] * Quits: Ms2ger (Ms2ger@91.181.73.47) (Connection reset by peer)
  544. # [23:23] * Joins: Ms2ger (Ms2ger@91.181.73.47)
  545. # [23:27] * Quits: Ms2ger (Ms2ger@91.181.73.47) (Quit: nn)
  546. # [23:37] * Joins: vhardy__ (vhardy@206.80.17.29)
  547. # [23:37] * Quits: vhardy__ (vhardy@206.80.17.29) (Quit: vhardy__)
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  549. # [23:40] * Quits: vhardy_ (vhardy@192.150.10.201) (Ping timeout)
  550. # [23:44] * Quits: nimbu (Adium@192.150.10.201) (Quit: Leaving.)
  551. # [23:44] * Joins: nimbu (Adium@192.150.10.201)
  552. # [23:47] * Joins: vhardy_ (vhardy@206.80.17.29)
  553. # [23:47] * Quits: vhardy__ (vhardy@206.80.17.29) (Connection reset by peer)
  554. # [23:57] * Quits: jet (jet@203.63.65.169) (Quit: jet)
  555. # Session Close: Thu Apr 19 00:00:00 2012

The end :)