/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2012-05-02 / end

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  78. # [15:52] <stearns> Bert: ping
  79. # [15:52] <Bert> Hi Alan
  80. # [15:53] <stearns> how are regions and exclusions coming along?
  81. # [15:53] <Bert> They wil be published tomorrow.
  82. # [15:53] <stearns> great! thanks
  83. # [15:53] <stearns> there's a use-case for regions I posted to www-style that I'd like to get your feedback on
  84. # [15:53] <Bert> I wasn't sure if I would have time Monday and Tuesday (French holidays), so I asked the webmaster to do them on Thursday.
  85. # [15:54] <Bert> In hindsight, given th ebad weather, I would have had time enough on Monday, but...
  86. # [15:54] <Bert> I'll take a look at the use case.
  87. # [15:54] <stearns> no worries, tomorrow is fine. thanks for getting them through the pub rules checks
  88. # [15:55] <Bert> I'm preparing some use cases (scans from magazines) to discuss at the ftf as well.
  89. # [15:55] <stearns> I'm doing the same thing. it will be good to compare notes
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  102. # [17:53] * plinss_away is now known as plinss
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  105. # [17:54] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/05/02-css-irc
  106. # [17:54] <plinss> zakim, this will be style
  107. # [17:54] <Zakim> ok, plinss; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 14 minutes
  108. # [17:54] <plinss> rrsagent, make logs public
  109. # [17:54] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, plinss
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  111. # [18:05] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
  112. # [18:05] <Zakim> + +1.415.832.aaaa
  113. # [18:05] * Quits: vhardy_ (vhardy@206.80.17.29) (Quit: vhardy_)
  114. # [18:05] <nimbu> Zakim, aaaa is me
  115. # [18:05] <Zakim> +nimbu; got it
  116. # [18:06] * Joins: krit (krit@192.150.10.201)
  117. # [18:06] <Zakim> +stearns
  118. # [18:06] <glazou> Zakim, code?
  119. # [18:06] <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), glazou
  120. # [18:06] <Zakim> +??P45
  121. # [18:06] <glazou> Zakim, ??P45 is me
  122. # [18:06] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
  123. # [18:06] <glazou> Zakim, mute me
  124. # [18:06] * Joins: bradk (bradk@99.7.175.117)
  125. # [18:06] <Zakim> +plinss
  126. # [18:06] * Joins: smfr (smfr@173.228.90.44)
  127. # [18:06] <Zakim> glazou should now be muted
  128. # [18:07] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
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  130. # [18:07] * Joins: antonp (50a94e63@64.62.228.82)
  131. # [18:07] <fantasai> Zakim, [Microsoft] has arronei
  132. # [18:07] <Zakim> +arronei; got it
  133. # [18:07] <fantasai> Zakim, [Microsoft] has fantasai
  134. # [18:07] <Zakim> +fantasai; got it
  135. # [18:07] <Zakim> +bradk
  136. # [18:08] <glazou> Zakim, unmute me
  137. # [18:08] <Zakim> +antonp
  138. # [18:08] <Zakim> glazou should no longer be muted
  139. # [18:08] * Joins: JohnJansen (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  140. # [18:08] * Joins: Katie (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  141. # [18:09] <Zakim> +David_Baron
  142. # [18:09] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  143. # [18:09] <JohnJansen> Zakim, Microsoft has JohnJansen
  144. # [18:09] <dbaron> ok, I'm not sure if the mute button on this phone actually works
  145. # [18:09] <Zakim> + +1.604.312.aabb
  146. # [18:09] <Zakim> +JohnJansen; got it
  147. # [18:09] <JohnJansen> dbaron, you can test it now... I'll tell you if I can hear you.
  148. # [18:10] <dbaron> ah, I figured it out now
  149. # [18:10] <Zakim> +smfr
  150. # [18:10] <dbaron> it requires a long press of the mute button to mute
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  153. # [18:10] * dbaron Zakim, who is noisy?
  154. # [18:11] <Zakim> +Bert
  155. # [18:11] <Zakim> +??P30
  156. # [18:11] <kojiishi> zakim, ??p30 is me
  157. # [18:11] * Zakim dbaron, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Bert (41%)
  158. # [18:12] <arno1> Zakim, who is on the phone?
  159. # [18:12] * Bert to dbaron: do I need to redial?
  160. # [18:12] * Joins: dstorey (Adium@67.180.84.179)
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  162. # [18:12] * dbaron to Bert, no
  163. # [18:12] <Zakim> +kojiishi; got it
  164. # [18:13] <JohnJansen> can someone speak into the phone please? I think it's not working for me.
  165. # [18:13] <Zakim> + +1.415.832.aacc
  166. # [18:13] <glazou> JohnJansen: done
  167. # [18:13] <arno1> Zakim, who is on the phone?
  168. # [18:13] <JohnJansen> great. OK. calling back in...
  169. # [18:13] <Zakim> On the phone I see bradk, antonp, David_Baron, [Microsoft.a], +1.604.312.aabb, smfr, Bert, kojiishi, +1.415.832.aacc, nimbu, stearns, glazou, plinss, [Microsoft]
  170. # [18:13] * glazou is going to mute his phone, coughing too much
  171. # [18:13] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has JohnJansen
  172. # [18:13] <glazou> Zakim, mute me
  173. # [18:14] <arno1> Zakim, aacc is me
  174. # [18:14] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.aa]
  175. # [18:14] <Bert> Scribe: Bert
  176. # [18:14] * Joins: rbetts (rbetts@24.85.39.110)
  177. # [18:14] <Zakim> On the phone I see bradk, antonp, David_Baron, [Microsoft.a], +1.604.312.aabb, smfr, Bert, kojiishi, +1.415.832.aacc, [Microsoft.aa], nimbu, stearns, glazou, plinss, [Microsoft]
  178. # [18:14] <Katie> zakim, [microsoft.aa] is me
  179. # [18:14] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has JohnJansen
  180. # [18:14] <Bert> plinss: Any extra agenda?
  181. # [18:15] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
  182. # [18:15] <Bert> fantasai: Hackaton?
  183. # [18:15] * TabAtkins__ Hrm, Zakim hasn't seen me yet...
  184. # [18:15] <Zakim> +TabAtkins_
  185. # [18:15] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  186. # [18:15] <Zakim> glazou should now be muted
  187. # [18:15] <Zakim> +SteveZ
  188. # [18:15] * Joins: howcome (howcome@213.236.208.247)
  189. # [18:15] <Zakim> +arno1; got it
  190. # [18:15] * TabAtkins__ Make me a liar as soon as I say something, why don't you, Zakim.
  191. # [18:15] <JohnJansen> Zakim, microsoft has johnjansen
  192. # [18:15] <glazou> Zakim, unmute me
  193. # [18:15] <Katie> Zakim, [Microsoft.aa] is me
  194. # [18:15] <JohnJansen> glazou, thanks. I can hear now.
  195. # [18:15] <Bert> stearns: Still in planning stages.
  196. # [18:15] * Joins: SteveZ (chatzilla@98.228.56.197)
  197. # [18:15] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.aaa]
  198. # [18:16] <Zakim> +Katie; got it
  199. # [18:16] <Bert> vhardy_: What did you want to dicuss exactly?
  200. # [18:16] <Zakim> + +47.23.69.aadd
  201. # [18:16] <JohnJansen> Zakim, Microsoft has JohnJansen
  202. # [18:16] <Zakim> JohnJansen was already listed in [Microsoft], JohnJansen
  203. # [18:16] <Zakim> glazou should no longer be muted
  204. # [18:16] <Bert> ... Let me check, but should not be an issue. Could be FXTF event.
  205. # [18:16] <Zakim> +??P84
  206. # [18:16] <rbetts> +1.604.312.aabb is me
  207. # [18:16] <Zakim> sorry, Katie, I do not recognize a party named '[Microsoft.aa]'
  208. # [18:16] <Bert> plinss: Could be for the joint FXTF day.
  209. # [18:17] <JohnJansen> Zakim, Microsoft has Katie
  210. # [18:17] <dstorey> zakim, ??P84 is me
  211. # [18:17] <Zakim> JohnJansen was already listed in [Microsoft], JohnJansen
  212. # [18:17] <Bert> plinss: Please go through list of topics on wiki and prioritize. Send list to Daniel and me.
  213. # [18:17] <plinss> http://wiki.csswg.org/planning/hamburg-2012
  214. # [18:17] <Zakim> +??P91
  215. # [18:17] <Zakim> +Katie; got it
  216. # [18:17] <Bert> ... Top 5. Because we have too many topics.
  217. # [18:18] <Zakim> +dstorey; got it
  218. # [18:18] <Bert> Topic: Values & units
  219. # [18:18] <howcome> zakim, aadd is me
  220. # [18:18] <fantasai> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-values/issues-lc-2012
  221. # [18:18] <Zakim> +howcome; got it
  222. # [18:18] <Bert> fantasai: There's a 2.1 issue.
  223. # [18:18] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  224. # [18:18] <glazou> howcome: will you attend hamburg meeting ?
  225. # [18:19] * Quits: dstorey (Adium@67.180.84.179) (Quit: Leaving.)
  226. # [18:19] <Bert> Tab: [checking if spec is up to date...]
  227. # [18:19] <Bert> ... What was the 2.1 issue?
  228. # [18:19] * Joins: Rossen (Rossen@131.107.192.20)
  229. # [18:19] <dbaron> Issue 19?
  230. # [18:19] <howcome> yes, I will be in Hamburg
  231. # [18:19] <Zakim> +??P6
  232. # [18:19] <florianr> Zakim, I am ??P6
  233. # [18:19] <Zakim> +florianr; got it
  234. # [18:19] <Bert> Tab: issue 20
  235. # [18:19] <glazou> howcome: please add your flight/hotel data to http://wiki.csswg.org/planning/hamburg-2012
  236. # [18:19] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Apr/0639.html
  237. # [18:20] * Joins: dstorey (Adium@67.180.84.179)
  238. # [18:20] <Bert> ... 2.1 in font-family is less strict than we probably intended.
  239. # [18:20] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  240. # [18:20] <Bert> ... It potentially allows 'inherit' after comma in font-family.
  241. # [18:20] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Apr/0638.htmlhttp://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Apr/0638.html
  242. # [18:20] <Bert> ... We would like a modif to disallow inherit.
  243. # [18:20] <Rossen> Zakim, [Microsoft] has me
  244. # [18:21] <dbaron> sounds good to me
  245. # [18:21] <Zakim> +Rossen; got it
  246. # [18:21] <JohnJansen> errata only, for now, correct?
  247. # [18:21] <Bert> s/issue 20/issue 19/
  248. # [18:21] <dbaron> (to disallow inherit anywhere within a font-family value)
  249. # [18:21] <Bert> Tab: (Same thread as issue 20)
  250. # [18:22] <dbaron> inherit keyword, that is
  251. # [18:22] <Bert> RESOLVED: errata 2.1 to diasallow 'inherit' after comma in font-family
  252. # [18:22] <Bert> Tab: Issue 20
  253. # [18:23] <Bert> ... Grammar doesn't have a token for number with preceding " or -
  254. # [18:23] <Bert> ... Making a token for it should have no other effect than disallowing comments between + and the number.
  255. # [18:23] <glazou> q+
  256. # [18:23] * Zakim sees glazou on the speaker queue
  257. # [18:24] <Bert> ... Then we can in the future talk about number tokens without having to talk about +/- every time as well.
  258. # [18:24] <Bert> ... There are no test for this yet, I think.
  259. # [18:24] <glazou> Zakim, ack me
  260. # [18:24] <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
  261. # [18:24] <Bert> glazou: We use it in calc(). Is there no effect there?
  262. # [18:24] <Bert> ... and in nth-child()
  263. # [18:25] * Joins: vhardy__ (vhardy@192.150.10.200)
  264. # [18:25] <fantasai> Tab: No effect on calc() -- makes it more accurate anyway
  265. # [18:25] <Bert> Tab: We have to fix the grammar for nth-child anayway. No effect for calc().
  266. # [18:25] <dbaron> the change tab is talking about making is including the + or - sign in the number, percentage, and dimension tokens
  267. # [18:25] <Bert> plinss: Whitespace?
  268. # [18:25] <fantasai> Tab: :nth-child grammar has errors that need to be fixed anyway, so when we fix that we can make sure this is fixed
  269. # [18:25] <Bert> Tab: Yes, explicitly called out.
  270. # [18:26] <Bert> glazou: Comments everywhere is a pain.
  271. # [18:26] * Quits: SimonSapin (simon@82.232.219.95) (Ping timeout)
  272. # [18:26] <Bert> ... Someday we should fix that.
  273. # [18:26] <fantasai> (see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Apr/0805.html for nth-child grammar section)
  274. # [18:26] <Bert> plinss: I think it reasonable to include sign in the number token.
  275. # [18:26] <glazou> thanks fantasai
  276. # [18:26] <fantasai> plinss: should maybe only allow comments where whitespace is allowed
  277. # [18:26] <Bert> Tab: Yes, we thought it was when we wrote values.
  278. # [18:27] <Bert> plinss: Objections?
  279. # [18:27] <Bert> florianr: need test
  280. # [18:27] * Quits: vhardy_ (vhardy@206.80.17.29) (Ping timeout)
  281. # [18:27] <fantasai> anton: every errata item should have a testcase
  282. # [18:27] <Bert> RESOLVED: include sign in numberb token in 2.1
  283. # [18:27] <Bert> TAB: issue 10
  284. # [18:28] <Bert> ... calc() couls originally only return a length.
  285. # [18:28] <Bert> ... We'd like it to allow to return an integer as well.
  286. # [18:28] <fantasai> The proposed text is "If the type of the result, after resolving all subexpressions, is an integral <number>, the calc()'s resolved type is <integer>. "
  287. # [18:28] <Bert> dbaron: I seem to rememebr that would make asome things hgarder.
  288. # [18:29] <Bert> Tab: Our implementer says it is simple. Just tag it with the type.
  289. # [18:29] <Bert> ... Can only return an integer if there are only integers in the expression.
  290. # [18:29] <Bert> plinss: Careful with comparing floating points. After division 3.9999... is maybe 4.
  291. # [18:29] <fantasai> plinss: floating point math might result in rounding errors that fail that check
  292. # [18:30] <Bert> dbaron: Maybe different issue.
  293. # [18:30] <Bert> ... Could we do numbers [not integer]?
  294. # [18:30] <fantasai> dbaron: I had thought we couldn't do <number>s. Could we do <number>s before?
  295. # [18:30] <Bert> Tab: yeah
  296. # [18:30] <Bert> dbaron: So what are the rules when something is not an integer anymore?
  297. # [18:30] <fantasai> dbaron: is calc(2.3-1.3) an integer?
  298. # [18:30] <fantasai> dbaron: I would say that it's not an integer.
  299. # [18:31] <Bert> dbaron: I would say it is not an int.
  300. # [18:31] <fantasai> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-values/#calc-type-checking
  301. # [18:31] <Bert> ... Trying to remember how spec determined number. Trying to remember how I implemented it.
  302. # [18:31] <Bert> ... Constant part and value part.
  303. # [18:32] <fantasai> dbaron: Whenever you have a multiplication, it can be constant*value or value*constant
  304. # [18:32] <Bert> ... E.g. multiplication val * const or const * val
  305. # [18:32] <Bert> ... Are there different values allowed left and right?
  306. # [18:32] <Bert> ... That is the case for division. Anywhere else?
  307. # [18:33] <Bert> Tab: Type check on operations. Division bottom must be a number.
  308. # [18:33] <Bert> dbaron: So when exactly is it an int?
  309. # [18:33] <Bert> Tab: Eithe rmore rules about types. Or test for integer at the end, within margin.
  310. # [18:34] <fantasai> dbaron: z-index accepts 1 but not 1.0
  311. # [18:34] <Bert> dbaron: rule should be that all operands are int and there is no division.
  312. # [18:34] <bradk> why can't the top and bottom of division both by lengths that resolve to a integer?
  313. # [18:34] <Bert> florianr: Variables?
  314. # [18:34] <Bert> Tab: Resolved in the same way.
  315. # [18:35] <Bert> dbaron: Not sure what you say about division is correct.
  316. # [18:35] <Bert> Tab: If left divided by right is an int, then return is also int.
  317. # [18:36] <Bert> [discussion of when int divisions are needed]
  318. # [18:36] <Bert> Tab: I'm OK with restricting division.
  319. # [18:36] <Bert> ... Author can always simplify himself.
  320. # [18:36] <Bert> plinss: You don't want value to become invalid based on value of attr()
  321. # [18:36] <Bert> Tab: Exactly.
  322. # [18:37] <fantasai> fantasai: don't want z-index: calc(attr(...)/2) , because that would require computed-value-time validity check
  323. # [18:37] <Bert> plinss: Summary: result is int if all operands are int and there is no division.
  324. # [18:37] <Zakim> -SteveZ
  325. # [18:37] <Bert> REASOLVED: result is int if all operands are int and there is no division.
  326. # [18:37] <Bert> s/REASOLVED/RESOLVED/
  327. # [18:38] <Zakim> +SteveZ
  328. # [18:38] * Joins: vhardy_ (vhardy@192.150.10.200)
  329. # [18:38] * Quits: vhardy__ (vhardy@192.150.10.200) (Connection reset by peer)
  330. # [18:38] <fantasai> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-values/issues-lc-2012#issue-11
  331. # [18:38] <Bert> Tab: issue 11: attr() type at parse time.
  332. # [18:38] * Joins: tantek (tantek@205.248.100.252)
  333. # [18:39] <Bert> plinss: You are not proposing to allow attr() right now?
  334. # [18:39] <Bert> tab: If we defin number type, than we can allow attr() now.
  335. # [18:39] <fantasai> We should specify explicitly that attr() is allowed, rather than relying on <number> to imply it
  336. # [18:40] <Bert> ... cycle() could be another.
  337. # [18:40] <Bert> .. I think attr() is quite stable now.
  338. # [18:40] <Bert> dbaron: Any impls?
  339. # [18:40] <Bert> Tab: one or two. IE and prince, I think.
  340. # [18:40] <Bert> ... Only in 'content', but at leats the functionality is there.
  341. # [18:41] <Bert> plinss: I'm concerned with the implication so of attr() inside calc()
  342. # [18:41] <glazou> http://www.princexml.com/doc/6.0/properties/
  343. # [18:41] <Bert> fantasai: We can defer to level 4.
  344. # [18:41] <Bert> dbaron: I think we can allow it.
  345. # [18:41] <Bert> howcome: me too. We'll manage somehow.
  346. # [18:41] <Bert> Tab: How about cycle()?
  347. # [18:41] * Quits: vhardy_ (vhardy@192.150.10.200) (Ping timeout)
  348. # [18:41] <Bert> ... slightly more interesting issues.
  349. # [18:42] <Bert> ... One pb with attr() is that attr() can be 0 and so not detectable that division by 0.
  350. # [18:42] <Bert> ... Do we want to restrict that in some way?
  351. # [18:42] <Bert> fantasai: There are no dimensions allowed in denominator.
  352. # [18:42] * Joins: vhardy_ (vhardy@192.150.10.200)
  353. # [18:43] <Bert> Tab: We force the denomninator to a number.
  354. # [18:43] <fantasai> fantasai: could disallow attr() in denominator too
  355. # [18:43] <fantasai> plinss: grammar allows dimensions in denominator
  356. # [18:43] <Bert> plinss: Need to change the grammar. Percentage could be zero too.
  357. # [18:43] <fantasai> Tab: ... in type-checking section
  358. # [18:43] <Bert> ... Grammar says percentage is allowed.
  359. # [18:43] <Bert> Tab: Percentages turn into the type they are resolkved against.
  360. # [18:44] <Bert> plinss: What if percentage of zero?
  361. # [18:44] <Bert> dbaron: I don't like to resolve percentage type after.
  362. # [18:44] <Bert> Tab: It is still at computed value stage.
  363. # [18:44] * fantasai notes that dbaron wrote the typechecking section
  364. # [18:44] <Bert> dbaron: I think percentages should be treated same as dimension.
  365. # [18:44] <Bert> Tab: OK
  366. # [18:45] <Bert> .. So new prop:
  367. # [18:45] * Joins: shepazu (shepazu@128.30.52.169)
  368. # [18:45] <Bert> ... Change grammar so that it allow dimen type (not just dimen token) but still
  369. # [18:46] <dbaron> q+ to comment about cycle() and types
  370. # [18:46] * Zakim sees dbaron on the speaker queue
  371. # [18:46] <TabAtkins__> ...keep the NUMBER token in there so we can detect early division-by-zero
  372. # [18:46] <plinss> ack dbaron
  373. # [18:46] <Zakim> dbaron, you wanted to comment about cycle() and types
  374. # [18:46] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  375. # [18:46] <Bert> dbaron: About cycle(), it doesn't necessarily have a single type.
  376. # [18:47] <Bert> Tab: Right, but it must be valid for all types it can turn into.
  377. # [18:47] <Bert> dbaron: Maybe you can resolve the type beforehand.
  378. # [18:47] <Bert> Tab: All of its types must be valid in the given location.
  379. # [18:47] <Bert> ... In general all values must be of the same type.
  380. # [18:47] <Bert> fantasai: Don't see the need for cycle() in calc().
  381. # [18:48] <Bert> dbaron: Usually it's for keywords.
  382. # [18:48] <Bert> fantasai: We should make a whitelist of what is allowed.
  383. # [18:48] <Bert> Tab: Fine.
  384. # [18:49] <Bert> RESOLVED: allow attr() in calc() and disallow cycle()
  385. # [18:49] <Bert> plinss: attr() must be a dimension.
  386. # [18:49] <Bert> Tab: Yes
  387. # [18:50] <Bert> dbaron: About percentages: percentages never resolve to a number, I think.
  388. # [18:50] <Bert> [opacity... percentages? no]
  389. # [18:50] <Bert> antonp: line-height?
  390. # [18:50] <Bert> Tab: I believe lengths
  391. # [18:51] <fantasai> even numbers resolve against <length> there :)
  392. # [18:51] <Bert> Tab: issue 17 is pending some advise
  393. # [18:51] <Bert> .. Let's so 18
  394. # [18:51] <Bert> s/../.../
  395. # [18:51] <Bert> ... kenny suggested to use a specific URL for invalid URLs.
  396. # [18:52] <Bert> ... Spec currently says a UA-defined invalid value.
  397. # [18:52] * dbaron is looking for the URL Gecko uses
  398. # [18:52] <fantasai> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-values/#attr-notation
  399. # [18:52] <Bert> ... I don't now what that URL would be.
  400. # [18:52] <Bert> plinss: I like the idea of it being consistent.
  401. # [18:52] <dbaron> Gecko currently uses url(invalid-url:) in a few contexts
  402. # [18:52] <Bert> ... Will UA ever resolve it?
  403. # [18:53] <Bert> Tab: If it is defined to be invalid the UA can obviously skip it.
  404. # [18:53] <dbaron> though that was sort of an ugly hack
  405. # [18:53] <Bert> Tab: gecko uses just a scheme?
  406. # [18:53] <Bert> dbaron: We use it if someone askes for a computed style when our parser failed to parse the URL.
  407. # [18:53] <dbaron> s/parser/url parser/
  408. # [18:53] * Joins: glenn (gadams@205.248.100.252)
  409. # [18:54] <Bert> Tab: Adam Barth's URL spec I think never fails to parse. But would need to check.
  410. # [18:54] <Bert> dbaron: Maybe we can get advice from him.
  411. # [18:55] <Bert> Tab: I think I can ping him.
  412. # [18:55] <Bert> ... OK, lest' postpone that.
  413. # [18:55] <Bert> Tab: issue 21
  414. # [18:55] <fantasai> Tab: if you have several attr() or several cycle() in a property, you have combinatorial numbe rof things to check
  415. # [18:56] <Bert> ... If you have several attr() and cycle(), you have a combinatorial number of types to check.
  416. # [18:56] <fantasai> text-shadow: attr(offset px, inset) 0px 0px;
  417. # [18:56] <Bert> ... attr() fallback must match type.
  418. # [18:57] <Bert> ... Proposal: force cycle() to only ever be the sole value of a property.
  419. # [18:57] <fantasai> Tab: force cycle() to be sole value of property, and for attr() fallback must match type if it's not the sole value of a property
  420. # [18:57] <Bert> florianr: Can you explain attr()?
  421. # [18:57] <florianr> s/attr/cycle/
  422. # [18:57] <Bert> Tab: dbaron had ane xample where you inherit multiple cycle()s
  423. # [18:58] <Bert> dbaron: I think what is inherited in variables is syntactic, so cannot inherit cycle() that way.
  424. # [18:58] <Bert> Tab: Right... that would seem useful, though.
  425. # [18:59] <Bert> ... I was confused where the var would be used and where the cycle()
  426. # [19:00] * Joins: tantek_ (tantek@66.87.4.204)
  427. # [19:00] <dbaron> cycle(left top, right)
  428. # [19:00] <dbaron> was peter's example
  429. # [19:00] <Bert> plinss: Then cycle can give diff. # of keywrods. Is that a pb?
  430. # [19:00] <Bert> Tab: can change the meaning, but not problematic.
  431. # [19:01] <Bert> dbaron: I think cycle is top-level only.
  432. # [19:01] <Bert> plinss: OK, so cycle is the whole value always.
  433. # [19:01] <dbaron> Tab: proposal: cycle() is top-level only; when attr() is not at top level then the type of the fallback must match
  434. # [19:02] <Bert> ... we can loosen up later.
  435. # [19:02] <Bert> RESOLVED proposal: cycle() is top-level only; when attr() is not at top level then the type of the fallback must match
  436. # [19:02] <Bert> s/proposal://
  437. # [19:02] <fantasai> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-values/issues-lc-2012#issue-21
  438. # [19:02] <fantasai> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-values/issues-lc-2012#issue-22
  439. # [19:02] <Bert> Tab: issue 22
  440. # [19:02] <Bert> ... required ranges are rather random.
  441. # [19:02] * dbaron Zakim, who is noisyL
  442. # [19:02] * Zakim I don't understand 'who is noisyL', dbaron
  443. # [19:02] * dbaron Zakim, who is noisy?
  444. # [19:03] <bradk> so, cycle could be used for background-position property, but not for the background-position part of the background property then, right?
  445. # [19:03] * Zakim dbaron, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: florianr (19%), [Microsoft] (20%), glazou (9%)
  446. # [19:03] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Apr/0530.html
  447. # [19:03] <Bert> fantasai: we reduced # of repetition form 30 to 20.
  448. # [19:03] <fantasai> at Sylvain's request
  449. # [19:03] <Bert> plinss: any objecions?
  450. # [19:04] <fantasai> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-values/issues-lc-2012#issue-25
  451. # [19:04] <Bert> RESOLVED: dropping multipliers from 30 to 20.
  452. # [19:04] * Parts: howcome (howcome@213.236.208.247)
  453. # [19:05] <Bert> Tab: issue 25
  454. # [19:05] <Bert> ... currently 3 decimal digits (at least).
  455. # [19:05] <Bert> dbaron: Where does this apply?
  456. # [19:05] <Bert> Tab: nymbers dimen and percentage.
  457. # [19:06] <Bert> dbaron: So this precludes diff. repres for for dimens. This seems very small 0.001 mm
  458. # [19:06] <Bert> Tab: Spec says this applis to number and percentag. We actually don't have a req for dimen.
  459. # [19:07] <Bert> florianr: [...]
  460. # [19:07] <Bert> dbaron: If the stuff on the leftof decimal point is big, we may even lose before the decimal point.
  461. # [19:07] <Bert> ... floating point.
  462. # [19:08] <Bert> dbaron: And what does "support" mean?
  463. # [19:08] <Bert> tab: round-trip
  464. # [19:08] <Bert> dbaron: Are there iplems of thie right now?
  465. # [19:08] <Bert> [nobody knows]
  466. # [19:08] * Quits: smfr (smfr@173.228.90.44) (Quit: smfr)
  467. # [19:08] <Bert> florianr: We are likely to do fixed point, but haven't done so far.
  468. # [19:09] * Quits: rbetts (rbetts@24.85.39.110) (Quit: rbetts)
  469. # [19:09] <Zakim> - +1.604.312.aabb
  470. # [19:09] <dbaron> Peter: I think it's good to define required precision for numbers, but let's not make it incompatible with float.
  471. # [19:09] <Bert> tab: It doesn't require fixed point. Can use floating point.
  472. # [19:09] <Zakim> -Katie
  473. # [19:09] <Bert> ... we can reduce this or remove it entirely.
  474. # [19:09] * Quits: Katie (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Quit: Page closed)
  475. # [19:10] <Bert> plinss: A req on precision is good, but not as # of decimal digits.
  476. # [19:10] <Bert> florianr: Compatibel with single precision floats would prop. be compatibel with all current implems.
  477. # [19:10] <Bert> Tab: I think I can draw that up.
  478. # [19:10] <Bert> plinss: Sounds good.
  479. # [19:11] <Bert> ... Maybe we need at some point a required precision for lengths.
  480. # [19:11] <Bert> ... Minimum resolution.
  481. # [19:11] * Quits: drublic (drublic@93.132.230.144) (Client exited)
  482. # [19:11] <Bert> glazou: We discussed that in the past a bit already.
  483. # [19:11] <Zakim> -smfr
  484. # [19:11] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.aaa]
  485. # [19:11] <Zakim> -David_Baron
  486. # [19:11] <Zakim> -TabAtkins_
  487. # [19:11] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  488. # [19:11] <Zakim> -nimbu
  489. # [19:11] <Zakim> -glazou
  490. # [19:11] <Zakim> -antonp
  491. # [19:11] <Zakim> -SteveZ
  492. # [19:11] <Bert> plinss: see you in Hamburg!
  493. # [19:11] <Zakim> -kojiishi
  494. # [19:11] <Zakim> -howcome
  495. # [19:11] <Zakim> -florianr
  496. # [19:11] <Zakim> -dstorey
  497. # [19:11] <Zakim> -stearns
  498. # [19:11] <Zakim> -plinss
  499. # [19:11] <Zakim> -??P91
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  501. # [19:11] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
  502. # [19:11] <Zakim> -bradk
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  505. # [19:13] <Zakim> -arno1
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  508. # [19:18] <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, Bert, in Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
  509. # [19:18] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  510. # [19:18] <Zakim> Attendees were +1.415.832.aaaa, nimbu, stearns, glazou, plinss, arronei, fantasai, bradk, antonp, David_Baron, +1.604.312.aabb, JohnJansen, smfr, Bert, kojiishi, +1.415.832.aacc,
  511. # [19:18] <Zakim> ... TabAtkins_, SteveZ, arno1, Katie, +47.23.69.aadd, dstorey, howcome, florianr, Rossen
  512. # [19:18] <Bert> rrsagent, make minutes
  513. # [19:18] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/02-css-minutes.html Bert
  514. # [19:18] <Bert> rrsagent, make logs public
  515. # [19:18] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, Bert
  516. # [19:18] <Bert> rrsagent, make minutes
  517. # [19:18] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/02-css-minutes.html Bert
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  560. # [23:17] * Joins: vhardy_ (vhardy@206.80.17.29)
  561. # [23:17] * Joins: arronei (arronei@131.107.192.154)
  562. # [23:18] * Quits: arronei_ (arronei@131.107.192.154) (Ping timeout)
  563. # [23:20] * Quits: vhardy_ (vhardy@206.80.17.29) (Ping timeout)
  564. # [23:38] * Joins: vhardy_ (vhardy@206.80.17.29)
  565. # [23:39] * Quits: vhardy_ (vhardy@206.80.17.29) (Quit: vhardy_)
  566. # [23:40] * miketaylr is now known as miketaylrawaylol
  567. # [23:41] * Joins: vhardy_ (vhardy@206.80.17.29)
  568. # [23:47] * Joins: arno1 (arno@192.150.10.201)
  569. # [23:56] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@72.94.180.111) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  570. # [23:57] * Joins: jet (jet@159.63.23.38)
  571. # Session Close: Thu May 03 00:00:01 2012

The end :)