/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2012-06-13 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Jun 13 00:00:01 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #css
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  70. # [14:48] <plinss> fantasai: ping
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  86. # [17:30] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/06/13-css-irc
  87. # [17:31] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
  88. # [17:31] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 38 minutes
  89. # [17:31] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
  90. # [17:31] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
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  96. # [18:04] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
  97. # [18:04] <Zakim> +??P48
  98. # [18:04] <Zakim> + +1.206.324.aaaa
  99. # [18:04] <glenn> zakim, ??p48 is glenn
  100. # [18:04] <Zakim> +glenn; got it
  101. # [18:04] <sylvaing> Zakim, aaaa is sylvaing
  102. # [18:04] <Zakim> +sylvaing; got it
  103. # [18:05] <glenn> sylvaing: working on response to ur email... will send something in next few hours
  104. # [18:05] <Zakim> +??P6
  105. # [18:05] <florian> Zakim, I am ??P6
  106. # [18:05] <Zakim> +florian; got it
  107. # [18:05] * Joins: rbetts (rbetts@24.85.39.110)
  108. # [18:06] <Zakim> + +1.604.312.aabb
  109. # [18:06] <sylvaing> glenn, cool thx!
  110. # [18:06] <rbetts> aabb is me
  111. # [18:07] <glazou> Zakim, code?
  112. # [18:07] <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), glazou
  113. # [18:07] <glenn> zakim, aabb is rbetts
  114. # [18:07] <Zakim> +rbetts; got it
  115. # [18:07] <Zakim> +??P14
  116. # [18:07] <glazou> Zakim, why do I _always_ need to dial in twice before being able to log in?
  117. # [18:07] <Zakim> I don't understand your question, glazou.
  118. # [18:07] <glazou> Zakim, ??P14 is me
  119. # [18:07] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
  120. # [18:08] <Zakim> + +93550aacc
  121. # [18:08] <antonp> Zakim, aacc is me
  122. # [18:08] <Zakim> +antonp; got it
  123. # [18:08] * sylvaing "le facteur sonne toujours deux fois"
  124. # [18:09] <Zakim> + +1.415.766.aadd
  125. # [18:09] <dbaron> Zakim, aadd is dbaron
  126. # [18:09] <Zakim> +dbaron; got it
  127. # [18:09] <Zakim> + +1.206.390.aaee
  128. # [18:09] <stearns> zakim, aaee is me
  129. # [18:09] <Zakim> +stearns; got it
  130. # [18:09] <Zakim> +??P32
  131. # [18:09] <dbaron> I really don't understand why zakim remembers my phone number to name association on some weeks but not others
  132. # [18:10] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  133. # [18:10] <arronei> zakim, microsoft has me
  134. # [18:10] <Zakim> +arronei; got it
  135. # [18:10] <glazou> same thing here
  136. # [18:10] <Zakim> + +1.650.253.aaff
  137. # [18:10] <stearns> ditto
  138. # [18:10] <TabAtkins> zakim, aaff is me
  139. # [18:10] <Zakim> +TabAtkins; got it
  140. # [18:10] * sylvaing Zakim is on the 35-hour week
  141. # [18:10] * sylvaing it's on one of the 12 channels that ships every 10 seconds
  142. # [18:11] <TabAtkins> ScribeNick: TabAtkins
  143. # [18:11] * sylvaing if variables ships with prefixes I quit
  144. # [18:11] * Joins: vhardy_ (vhardy@192.150.10.201)
  145. # [18:11] <Zakim> +??P33
  146. # [18:11] <vhardy_> zakim, who is here?
  147. # [18:12] <Zakim> On the phone I see glenn (muted), sylvaing, florian, rbetts, glazou, antonp, dbaron, stearns, ??P32, [Microsoft], TabAtkins, ??P33
  148. # [18:12] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has arronei
  149. # [18:12] <Zakim> +??P66
  150. # [18:12] * Joins: JohnJansen (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  151. # [18:13] <Zakim> +??P67
  152. # [18:13] <JohnJansen> zakim, microsoft has johnjansen
  153. # [18:13] <Zakim> On IRC I see vhardy_, rbetts, florian, antonp, dbaron, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou, shepazu, koji, miketaylr, glenn, SimonSapin, drublic, Ms2ger, macpherson, kennyluck, isherman,
  154. # [18:13] <TabAtkins> glazou: Any other agenda items?
  155. # [18:13] * Joins: leaverou (leaverou@207.239.114.206)
  156. # [18:13] <Zakim> ... gsnedders, danielfilho, TabAtkins, hober, decadance, trackbot, heycam|away, fantasai, Bert, stearns, logbot, Hixie, Liam, CSSWG_LogBot, paul___irish, plinss, alexmog, shans,
  157. # [18:13] <Zakim> ... krijnh, vhardy, ed, arronei, sylvaing
  158. # [18:13] <TabAtkins> florian: I was wondering if there was something to actually do with Flexbox this week.
  159. # [18:13] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  160. # [18:13] <Zakim> +johnjansen; got it
  161. # [18:14] * Joins: alexmog_ (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  162. # [18:14] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: Nothing to discuss about flexbox this week.
  163. # [18:14] <vhardy_> Zakim, ??P33 is vhardy_
  164. # [18:14] <TabAtkins> glazou: Everyone noticed that our two drafts were published this week? Box Alignment and Flexbox.
  165. # [18:14] * Joins: oyvind (oyvinds@91.203.97.251)
  166. # [18:14] <TabAtkins> Topic: Device Adaptation
  167. # [18:14] <TabAtkins> glazou: Note that the Apple people aren't on the call today.
  168. # [18:14] <Zakim> +vhardy_; got it
  169. # [18:15] <glazou> http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/products/38
  170. # [18:15] <florian> http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/issues/264
  171. # [18:15] * sylvaing Apple has so many pixels they can't adapt to anything anymore
  172. # [18:15] * Zakim hears ??P67's hand up
  173. # [18:15] * Zakim sees ??P67 on the speaker queue
  174. # [18:15] <Zakim> -antonp
  175. # [18:15] <TabAtkins> florian: In MQ there is a piece of text in MQ that says you don't really have to evaluate MQ when the environment changes. Device Adapation copied that.
  176. # [18:15] <TabAtkins> florian: It's okay to say that, but we should probably tie the two together.
  177. # [18:16] <fantasai> Zakim ??P67 is fantasai
  178. # [18:16] <Zakim> +antonp
  179. # [18:16] <TabAtkins> florian: So there's a proposed wording for synchronizing them.
  180. # [18:16] <rbetts> The message in question: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Jun/0224.html
  181. # [18:16] * Joins: Katie (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  182. # [18:16] <TabAtkins> florian: [describes existing text, copied from MQ]
  183. # [18:16] <glazou> thanks rbetts
  184. # [18:17] <TabAtkins> florian: We'd like to add "however, UAs that also support MQ must reevaluate at any time that would cause them to reevalulate MQs.
  185. # [18:17] <TabAtkins> dbaron: Should the requirement be bidirectional?
  186. # [18:17] <glenn> what is the granularity for evaluating "change"? every second, every nanosecond?
  187. # [18:17] * TabAtkins glenn, it's UA-dependent.
  188. # [18:17] <TabAtkins> florian: I don't see any harm in making it MUST in both directions.
  189. # [18:18] <glenn> guidelines for interop would be useful
  190. # [18:18] * TabAtkins glenn: the proper definition isn't timer-based. It's based on when changes actually happen.
  191. # [18:18] <Zakim> + +1.206.427.aagg
  192. # [18:18] <TabAtkins> florian: So tweak the wording to make it bidirectional.
  193. # [18:19] <Katie> Zakim, +1.206.427.aagg has me
  194. # [18:19] <Zakim> +Katie; got it
  195. # [18:19] <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: Tie DA and MQ together so they resolve changes at the same time.
  196. # [18:19] <glenn> tabatkins: not good enough to just say UA dependent, need guidelines
  197. # [18:19] <florian> http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/issues/239
  198. # [18:20] * Joins: CesarAcebal (acebal@85.152.178.157)
  199. # [18:20] <TabAtkins> florian: The spec says nothing about fractional pixel lengths.
  200. # [18:20] <TabAtkins> florian: And the constraining procedure can result in 0px for width or height.
  201. # [18:20] * glazou if I am suddenly disconnected from phone and IRC, that's because my house is right in the middle of a thunderstorm...
  202. # [18:20] <Zakim> + +1.425.753.aahh
  203. # [18:21] <Zakim> + +34.60.940.aaii
  204. # [18:21] <TabAtkins> florian: So I recommend we add some text that says that fractional pixels are rounded to the nearest whole pixel, and if it would round to 0, it instead rounds to 1px.
  205. # [18:21] <CesarAcebal> zakim, aaii is me
  206. # [18:21] <Zakim> +CesarAcebal; got it
  207. # [18:21] * Quits: leaverou (leaverou@207.239.114.206) (Quit: leaverou)
  208. # [18:22] <TabAtkins> astearns: Can you distinguish between it being made 0 due to device adaptation and it being explicitly specified as 0?
  209. # [18:22] <Zakim> +??P15
  210. # [18:22] <koji> zakim, ??p15 is me
  211. # [18:22] <Zakim> +koji; got it
  212. # [18:22] <TabAtkins> florian: I don't think it's useful to make the viewport 0 width or height anyway.
  213. # [18:23] <TabAtkins> florian: Do we have a universal rounding mechanism?
  214. # [18:23] <TabAtkins> florian: Or should we specify the mechanism?
  215. # [18:23] <TabAtkins> glazou: If we're speaking of the viewport, a single pixel can be important.
  216. # [18:24] <TabAtkins> dbaron: It's not clear to me what these values are that you're talking about rounding.
  217. # [18:24] <TabAtkins> dbaron: Also, Acid3 does test the behavior of MQ in a zero-sized viewport.
  218. # [18:25] <rbetts> The referenced section: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-device-adapt/#constraining-procedure
  219. # [18:25] <TabAtkins> florian: The constraining algorithm sets a bunch of descriptors, then runs them together to set the initial value of the viewport.
  220. # [18:26] <TabAtkins> florian: If you end up specifying a viewport as .1px wide, or even 1.3 wide, you want to make it an integer number of pixels, and probably not 0.
  221. # [18:26] <TabAtkins> dbaron: I think we do have non-integer number of pixels. And in high-dpi devices, you might want it more.
  222. # [18:26] <TabAtkins> dbaron: That said, this is a weird context - it's the fake viewport you're using to zoom around in.
  223. # [18:27] * Joins: nimbu (Adium@192.150.10.200)
  224. # [18:27] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: I'm not so concerned about the 0 thing, but am somewhat concerned about rounding in high-DPI.
  225. # [18:27] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: I think we should specify rounding behavior, but I don't care that much about the super-small viewport.
  226. # [18:28] <Zakim> -??P66
  227. # [18:28] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.aa]
  228. # [18:28] * Joins: krit (krit@192.150.10.201)
  229. # [18:28] <TabAtkins> florian: If we force integer pixels, we need to define rounding. If we don't, we can either leave it up to UAs, or define a roundign scheme for subpixels.
  230. # [18:29] <TabAtkins> dbaron: I'd rather not try and solve rounding here first.
  231. # [18:29] <TabAtkins> dbaron: We have a lot of other places with rounding behavior and a lot of dependencies on that, so I'd prefer not to decide something here where it doesnt' matter much, and end up copying it to places where it does matter and might be incompatible.
  232. # [18:29] <TabAtkins> florian: Okay, so we can postpone this for now.
  233. # [18:30] <TabAtkins> florian: Next issue:
  234. # [18:30] <TabAtkins> florian: Issue 238
  235. # [18:30] <glazou> http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/issues/238
  236. # [18:30] * Joins: Rossen (Rossen@131.107.192.20)
  237. # [18:30] <TabAtkins> florian: It mentions the existence of the non-standard device-pixel-ratio MQ.
  238. # [18:30] <florian> http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/issues/238
  239. # [18:30] <TabAtkins> florian: It asks if we should define this or not, since it's redundant with resolution.
  240. # [18:30] * Quits: nimbu (Adium@192.150.10.200) (Quit: Leaving.)
  241. # [18:31] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: I'm somewhat for defining device-pixel-ratio, because of its pickup on the mobile web in webkit.
  242. # [18:31] * Joins: nimbu (Adium@192.150.10.200)
  243. # [18:31] <fantasai> zakim, unmute fantasai
  244. # [18:31] <Zakim> sorry, fantasai, I do not know which phone connection belongs to fantasai
  245. # [18:31] <fantasai> :/
  246. # [18:32] <TabAtkins> florian: I'd rather have it in MQ.
  247. # [18:32] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: Oh yes, sorry, I'd fine with dropping the issue here and raising it in MQ.
  248. # [18:33] <dbaron> I think we need to define device-pixel-ratio
  249. # [18:33] <dbaron> despite that I don't like it
  250. # [18:33] <sylvaing> people don't wait for the WG to do prefixes; they future-proof by writing the unprefixed version ahead of time
  251. # [18:33] <TabAtkins> fantasai: If the compat issue is just -webkit prefixed d-p-r, I don't think it's as much of an issue. But if there's compat with unprefixed d-p-r, then we can talk about it.
  252. # [18:33] <sylvaing> s/do/drop
  253. # [18:33] * Joins: jet (jet@63.245.220.240)
  254. # [18:33] <TabAtkins> florian: I'd like to talk about this within MQ.
  255. # [18:33] <florian> http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/issues/237
  256. # [18:33] <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: Drop the issue in DA about device-pixel-ratio.
  257. # [18:34] <TabAtkins> florian: This whole thing was drafted to both ahve a sensible behavior, and to have enough hooks so that existing implementations of meta-viewport could be mapped into this.
  258. # [18:34] <TabAtkins> florian: The Android browser has a target density property, which lets you set the size of a CSS pixel.
  259. # [18:34] <TabAtkins> florian: So we've introduced this concept.
  260. # [18:35] <TabAtkins> florian: I think that most of the time authors are best served by making it magic.
  261. # [18:35] <TabAtkins> florian: But in some cases, I think it might make sense to request 1 device pixel per CSS pixel.
  262. # [18:35] <TabAtkins> florian: But I think all other values are nonsense.
  263. # [18:35] <TabAtkins> florian: So I'd like drop the capability to set arbitrary values.
  264. # [18:35] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: Can you elaborate on use-cases for this?
  265. # [18:36] <TabAtkins> florian: It may be useful for performance reasons.
  266. # [18:37] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: I'm mildly for dropping it, unless we have good reasons for keeping it. But if it's easy and there are mildly good reasons for it, I'm okay with keeping it.
  267. # [18:38] * hober http://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2012-June/020914.html seems relevant
  268. # [18:38] <glazou> hober: don't you listen to your peers at WWDC ???
  269. # [18:38] <Zakim> - +1.425.753.aahh
  270. # [18:38] <TabAtkins> florian: I don't know if both Android Browser and Chrome for Android have it, but iphone doesn't.
  271. # [18:39] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: Hober's link seems to show mild support for Chrome dropping it.
  272. # [18:39] <TabAtkins> rbetts: The only way I've found target-densitydpi useful is when the default for the device is broken, like the original Galaxy Tab.
  273. # [18:40] <TabAtkins> florian: So it sounds like agreement that we can drop arbitrary resolutions, and we might not want it at all.
  274. # [18:40] <TabAtkins> florian: I'd really like to get rid of the first part, and we can take the more general question up later.
  275. # [18:40] <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: Drop arbitrary resolution capability from the target-dpi feature in Device Adaptation.
  276. # [18:43] <TabAtkins> glazou: Choice now - go to 2.1 issues, or deal with Hamburg issues.
  277. # [18:43] * sylvaing 25mn to unprefix all the things!
  278. # [18:44] <TabAtkins> Topic: Media Queries 4
  279. # [18:44] <TabAtkins> florian: MQ4 is starting now.
  280. # [18:44] <TabAtkins> florian: Several new things I'm wanting to do:
  281. # [18:44] <TabAtkins> florian: I'm interested in more media features.
  282. # [18:45] <TabAtkins> florian: For example, people want to design different websites on a tv and on a tablet, but going by media type (handheld vs tv) doesn't work because everyone reports themselves as screen.
  283. # [18:45] <TabAtkins> florian: So we should give up on media types and instead rely on media featuresd.
  284. # [18:45] <TabAtkins> florian: Real differences are:
  285. # [18:45] <TabAtkins> florian: differences in input mechanisms
  286. # [18:45] <TabAtkins> florian: One approach that was tried out in Moz was an explicit media query for touch.
  287. # [18:46] <TabAtkins> florian: I dont' think this is a good idea - it's not a media feature, it's a type.
  288. # [18:46] <TabAtkins> florian: For example, touch is special in two ways.
  289. # [18:46] <TabAtkins> florian: It can't do hovering well, so a "hover" media query would let you know if you should do :hover-based menus or not.
  290. # [18:46] <TabAtkins> florian: The other way it's different is that the pointer isn't very accurate.
  291. # [18:46] <TabAtkins> florian: So a MQ saying if you have an accurate pointer like a stylus or mouse versus an inaccurate one like a finger or a wiimote.
  292. # [18:47] <TabAtkins> florian: using these we can categorize and design against a whole range of devices.
  293. # [18:47] <hober> if you zoom in a finger can be accurate...
  294. # [18:50] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: Devices today match :hover when the user presses on something.
  295. # [18:50] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: So no one will ever report "no" on the hover pseudo.
  296. # [18:50] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: It's not a strict "do you support the :hover pseudo" or not. It's about whether you ahve a persistent pointer on the screen that can hover over things.
  297. # [18:50] <TabAtkins> florian: Another difference between tv and others is that you don't ahve a convenient way to scroll, so you want to put everything on the single viewport.
  298. # [18:50] <TabAtkins> florian: So hoverability, accuracy, and scrollability are the three MQ that I want to add for input.
  299. # [18:50] <TabAtkins> florian: There are more I want to address, such as one asking for whether you're paged or not, since that's no longer strictly tied to being "print" or not.
  300. # [18:50] * Quits: drublic (drublic@77.2.142.144) (Client exited)
  301. # [18:51] <TabAtkins> florian: So in general I want to extend media features to do everything that media types were originally supposed to do.
  302. # [18:51] <TabAtkins> florian: Because media types aren't useful in practice.
  303. # [18:51] <TabAtkins> florian: For example, the grid feature lets you detect if you're on a tt device, no need for a media type about it.
  304. # [18:51] <sylvaing> I note that laptops with touch screen and mice work fine with windows 8 and have both a persistent pointer and touch support....
  305. # [18:52] <TabAtkins> florian: The other thing I want to do is pull the OM into the MQ spec, rather than being in the CSSOM spec.
  306. # [18:52] * TabAtkins sylvaing: Similar stuff on our side - we're happy with the definitions as they exist, and will give feedback about how we deal with it.
  307. # [18:53] <TabAtkins> florian: There's also another MQ spec about whether you're fullscreen, widgeted, etc.
  308. # [18:53] <TabAtkins> florian: This spec is already CR. I think it's worth merging this into MQ so it's all defined in one place.
  309. # [18:53] <Ms2ger> http://www.w3.org/TR/view-mode/
  310. # [18:53] * sylvaing Tab, I'm not worried about the definition but the things that will be done with them. Specifically under the assumption that mouse and touch are mutually exclusive as they have been for some time now...
  311. # [18:53] * Quits: alexmog_ (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Ping timeout)
  312. # [18:53] * fantasai agrees with sylvaing, it seems like this all is going in a good direction, but needs more thought
  313. # [18:53] * TabAtkins Yeah, I'm saying that we're well aware taht they're not exclusive, and we find it still useful here.
  314. # [18:54] * sylvaing so use-cases for detecting this are the important bit; I'm not too worried about the detection itself
  315. # [18:54] <TabAtkins> glazou: Do you think pulling the view mode stuff in will create a long delay for PR?
  316. # [18:54] <TabAtkins> glazou: And OM stuff.
  317. # [18:55] <TabAtkins> fantasai: I think worrying about transitioning to PR is premature right now. We can always mark things as at-risk later. We don't even have a FPWD yet.
  318. # [18:55] * sylvaing in other words, I'm concerned that touch detection could turn into another resolution-like hot mess if we don't go carefully through the use-cases beforehand...
  319. # [18:55] <fantasai> sylvaing++
  320. # [18:55] * TabAtkins yup, agreed.
  321. # [18:55] <Katie> sylvaing+
  322. # [18:55] <TabAtkins> glazou: ok
  323. # [18:55] <TabAtkins> florian: There are fairly large editorial rewrite - I've shuffled bits around and such.
  324. # [18:56] * fantasai suggests breaking media features down into subsections
  325. # [18:56] <TabAtkins> florian: It's not standalone - right now the media types just point to CSS 2.1. I'd prefer to pull those in.
  326. # [18:57] <TabAtkins> florian: Final thing I want to do is deprecate some media types.
  327. # [18:57] <TabAtkins> florian: speech and print are used, and maybe speech.
  328. # [18:57] <TabAtkins> florian: But the other ones aren't actually in use.
  329. # [18:57] <TabAtkins> florian: It's misleading for authors to have a handheld type that never matches on any handheld device.
  330. # [18:58] <TabAtkins> florian: This is why I want to introduce the features that actually let you detect what sorts of devices you're on.
  331. # [18:58] <TabAtkins> florian: What else should we do in MQ4?
  332. # [18:58] <TabAtkins> glazou: Some people wanted to test for the presence of scripting or not.
  333. # [18:58] <TabAtkins> florian: Oh yes, I forgot about that. I already have a draft about thqat.
  334. # [18:59] * glazou detection of CSS enabled :-p
  335. # [18:59] <TabAtkins> fantasai: There were some requests from the a11y side to test for high-contrast.
  336. # [19:00] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: We discussed that casually in the f2f, and the question we had was whether "high-contrast mode" means the OS has forced you into high-contrast or if it's asking you to make yourself high-contrast.
  337. # [19:00] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Different OSes may have different conventions. We may need options there.
  338. # [19:00] <nimbu> florian: wait is this similar to @supports by dbaron? http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-conditional/
  339. # [19:00] <Zakim> -??P32
  340. # [19:01] <Katie> hides sprites
  341. # [19:01] <Katie> yes
  342. # [19:01] <fantasai> nimbu: what is?
  343. # [19:02] <TabAtkins> dbaron: I'm not sure that any OS actually changes the bits being sent over. Yes to color schemes and such.
  344. # [19:02] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: On windows it shuts down box shadows and changes default control rendering and such.
  345. # [19:02] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: There's a prefixed IE MQ about this.
  346. # [19:02] <nimbu> fantasai: (MQ4 discussion that glazou just mentioned about adding detection for scripting etc)
  347. # [19:02] <nimbu> sorry it was glazou not florian.
  348. # [19:02] <TabAtkins> dbaron: In gecko, I think if the user is in high-contrast mode we disable the ability of the page to set colors.
  349. # [19:03] * TabAtkins nimbu: Only insofar as @supports is kinda a Media Query.
  350. # [19:03] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: Is B&B still at a point where we can add a note?
  351. # [19:03] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Yes, editorial is fine.
  352. # [19:03] * Quits: jet (jet@63.245.220.240) (Quit: jet)
  353. # [19:03] <nimbu> *TabAtkins: that would be cool.*
  354. # [19:03] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: We had a fun issue about border-radius lowering the hit-area.
  355. # [19:04] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: The back button in the Windows Store, for example, was sized to the normal "minimum finger-touch area", then was reduced by border-radius, and we had usability problems with missed touches.
  356. # [19:04] <TabAtkins> sylvaing: So maybe a note that when designing for touch accessibility, design it so that the hit area fits within the border-radius-reduced shape.
  357. # [19:05] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Send a suggestion to the list, we'll add it.
  358. # [19:05] <fantasai> http://wiki.csswg.org/topics/overflow-formatting-context
  359. # [19:05] * sylvaing 3mn? PREFIXES!
  360. # [19:05] <Zakim> -dbaron
  361. # [19:05] <sylvaing> that's all we need to agree on the scientific notation...
  362. # [19:06] <antonp> http://wiki.csswg.org/topics/overflow-formatting-context
  363. # [19:06] * Joins: jet (jet@63.245.220.240)
  364. # [19:06] <TabAtkins> glazou: Action everyone to review the 2.1 issue at http://wiki.csswg.org/topics/overflow-formatting-context for next week's call.
  365. # [19:06] * Quits: JohnJansen (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Quit: Page closed)
  366. # [19:06] <Zakim> -glazou
  367. # [19:06] <Zakim> -CesarAcebal
  368. # [19:06] <Zakim> -TabAtkins
  369. # [19:06] <Zakim> -vhardy_
  370. # [19:06] <Zakim> -koji
  371. # [19:06] <Zakim> - +1.206.427.aagg
  372. # [19:06] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
  373. # [19:06] <Zakim> -antonp
  374. # [19:06] <Zakim> -sylvaing
  375. # [19:06] * Parts: antonp (50a94e63@207.192.75.252)
  376. # [19:06] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  377. # [19:06] * Parts: nimbu (Adium@192.150.10.200)
  378. # [19:06] * Quits: Katie (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Quit: Page closed)
  379. # [19:06] <Zakim> -??P67
  380. # [19:06] <Zakim> -stearns
  381. # [19:06] * Quits: glazou (glazou@82.247.96.19) (Quit: glazou)
  382. # [19:06] <Zakim> -rbetts
  383. # [19:06] * Quits: vhardy_ (vhardy@192.150.10.201) (Quit: vhardy_)
  384. # [19:06] * Quits: dbaron (dbaron@70.36.140.8) (Quit: 8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.)
  385. # [19:06] <Zakim> -florian
  386. # [19:06] * Quits: CesarAcebal (acebal@85.152.178.157) (Quit: CesarAcebal)
  387. # [19:06] * Quits: rbetts (rbetts@24.85.39.110) (Quit: rbetts)
  388. # [19:07] <TabAtkins> fantasai: I'll be in SF on Friday. Wanna meet up for a bit to review the flexbox sizing issue that Alex raised?
  389. # [19:07] <fantasai> TabAtkins: yes!
  390. # [19:08] <fantasai> TabAtkins: we should also pick a day and spend it doing editorial author-friendly edits for flexbox, like glazou requested
  391. # [19:08] <TabAtkins> Yeah.
  392. # [19:08] * florian nimbu: no, this is different from css3-conditional (which is really cool, by the way)
  393. # [19:09] * florian nimbu: conditionals allow you to detect if certain css property:value pairs are supported by the browsers. The MQ I am talking about let's you check if the browser supports javascript (and has it turned on)
  394. # [19:10] <Zakim> -glenn
  395. # [19:15] <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, [Microsoft.aa], in Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
  396. # [19:15] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  397. # [19:15] <Zakim> Attendees were +1.206.324.aaaa, glenn, sylvaing, florian, +1.604.312.aabb, rbetts, glazou, +93550aacc, antonp, +1.415.766.aadd, dbaron, +1.206.390.aaee, stearns, arronei,
  398. # [19:15] <Zakim> ... +1.650.253.aaff, TabAtkins, [Microsoft], johnjansen, vhardy_, Katie, +1.425.753.aahh, +34.60.940.aaii, CesarAcebal, koji
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The end :)