/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2012-06-20 / end

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  107. # [17:26] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/06/20-css-irc
  108. # [17:26] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
  109. # [17:26] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 43 minutes
  110. # [17:26] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
  111. # [17:26] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
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  119. # [18:04] <glazou> koji: see my last tweet cc:ed to you
  120. # [18:04] <glazou> koji: https://twitter.com/glazou/status/215467984704126977
  121. # [18:05] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
  122. # [18:05] * Joins: oyvind (oyvinds@91.203.97.251)
  123. # [18:05] <Zakim> +plinss
  124. # [18:06] <glazou> Zakim, code?
  125. # [18:06] <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), glazou
  126. # [18:06] <Zakim> +??P42
  127. # [18:06] <glazou> Zakim, ??P42 is me
  128. # [18:06] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
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  132. # [18:09] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  133. # [18:09] <arronei> zakim, microsoft has me
  134. # [18:09] <Zakim> +arronei; got it
  135. # [18:09] <Zakim> +??P46
  136. # [18:09] <florian> Zakim, I am ??P46
  137. # [18:09] <Zakim> +florian; got it
  138. # [18:10] <Zakim> + +93550aaaa
  139. # [18:10] <antonp> Zakim, aaaa is me
  140. # [18:10] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  141. # [18:10] <Zakim> +antonp; got it
  142. # [18:10] <koji> glazou:thx
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  147. # [18:10] <Zakim> +??P50
  148. # [18:10] <Zakim> + +1.206.324.aabb
  149. # [18:11] <sylvaing> Zakim, aabb is sylvaing
  150. # [18:11] <Zakim> +sylvaing; got it
  151. # [18:11] <Zakim> + +1.408.636.aacc
  152. # [18:11] * Joins: nimbu (Adium@192.150.10.200)
  153. # [18:11] <smfr> Zakim: aacc is me
  154. # [18:11] <smfr> i guess Zakim forgot everyone again
  155. # [18:11] <Zakim> + +1.650.275.aadd
  156. # [18:11] <smfr> Zakim, aacc is me
  157. # [18:11] <Zakim> +smfr; got it
  158. # [18:11] <smfr> Zakim: why you hate colons?
  159. # [18:12] <Zakim> +fantasai
  160. # [18:12] * nimbu suspects zakim is a grammar nazi
  161. # [18:12] <bradk> zakim, aadd is me
  162. # [18:12] <Zakim> +bradk; got it
  163. # [18:12] <bradk> I think
  164. # [18:13] <Zakim> + +1.415.832.aaee
  165. # [18:13] <krit> zakim, aaee is me
  166. # [18:13] <Zakim> +krit; got it
  167. # [18:13] <JohnJansen> Zakim, Microsoft has JohnJansen
  168. # [18:13] <Zakim> +JohnJansen; got it
  169. # [18:13] <JohnJansen> is the phone working for anyone?
  170. # [18:14] <smfr> JohnJansen: say something
  171. # [18:14] <nimbu> how do I tell zakim i am in same conferencing phone systam as krit
  172. # [18:14] <JohnJansen> so, I guess you didn't hear me :-)
  173. # [18:14] <Zakim> +??P18
  174. # [18:15] <antonp> I'm not really hearing anyone, just tiny bursts of phone activity
  175. # [18:15] <fantasai> zakim, krit has nimub
  176. # [18:15] <Zakim> +nimub; got it
  177. # [18:15] <krit> hober: what does w3c meme say?
  178. # [18:15] <fantasai> zakim, nimub is nimbu
  179. # [18:15] <Zakim> sorry, fantasai, I do not recognize a party named 'nimub'
  180. # [18:15] <fantasai> :/
  181. # [18:16] <fantasai> ScribeNick: fantasai
  182. # [18:16] <fantasai> plinss: additions to agenda?
  183. # [18:16] <fantasai> smfr: transforms and fixed backgrounds
  184. # [18:16] <fantasai> florian: at bottom of agenda, leftovers from f2f, some have been addressed and should be removed
  185. # [18:17] <fantasai> fantasai: an issue on counter style case-sensitivity
  186. # [18:17] <fantasai> Topic: CSS2.1
  187. # [18:17] <fantasai> http://wiki.csswg.org/topics/overflow-formatting-context
  188. # [18:17] <fantasai> plinss: everyone had an action item to review this
  189. # [18:18] * sylvaing if snoring can be heard on my line I *swear* it's my dog...
  190. # [18:18] <glazou> ROFL
  191. # [18:18] <fantasai> antonp: So, this is an issue about introducing a new term "formatting context" which will cover things like BFC but also be used to cover things like "flexbox FC" and "table FC"
  192. # [18:18] <glazou> #antonp { speech-rate: slower; }
  193. # [18:18] <fantasai> antonp: It came up in the Flexbox spec, because its children are not formatted as blocks
  194. # [18:18] <fantasai> antonp: Realized it would be useful to have a term simply "formatting context"
  195. # [18:19] * sylvaing once again, antonp makes me question whether digital really is faster than analog
  196. # [18:19] <fantasai> antonp: would solve problem in specs currently, e.g. for overflow it should apply to a wider class of items than just block formatting contexts
  197. # [18:19] <fantasai> antonp: similar issue with containing block
  198. # [18:19] <fantasai> antonp: answer here is an element that establishes a formatting context, not just a block formatting context
  199. # [18:19] <fantasai> antonp: this also speaks to some bugs we have on 2.1
  200. # [18:20] <fantasai> antonp: related to the fact that currently we have problems with definitions of overflow and containing block because they do forget to handle tables
  201. # [18:20] <fantasai> antonp: These edits would fix those bugs and give us a nice editorial hook for future specs
  202. # [18:20] <fantasai> florian: after reading what was written and listening to what was said, I think the logic makes sense
  203. # [18:20] <fantasai> florian: I don't feel comfortable enought that I know enough details to be sure this all works
  204. # [18:21] <fantasai> florian: I therefore hesitate to vote for it
  205. # [18:21] <fantasai> fantasai: I think these edits are correct (I wrote some of them). Would like to hear from dbaron too though
  206. # [18:22] <fantasai> arronei: I think these changes are fine, but wondering why we're editing 2.1 here
  207. # [18:23] <fantasai> arronei: 2.1 isn't completely clear here, but it's not obviously wrong
  208. # [18:23] <fantasai> arronei: why not just start a CSS3 spec
  209. # [18:23] <fantasai> fantasai: Our current specs depend on 2.1 right now, not on non-existent or early-draft specs
  210. # [18:24] <fantasai> plinss: I'm also concerned about editing 2.1, but also see the problem with not having equivalent text in level 3
  211. # [18:24] * Joins: Rossen (Rossen@131.107.192.20)
  212. # [18:25] <fantasai> proposal - resolve pending dbaron's approval
  213. # [18:28] <fantasai> Rossen: Is this going to have any changes to the behavior of tables? Or is it just editorial?
  214. # [18:28] <fantasai> antonp: When there was a lot of rewriting of blocks and boxes and things, there were some thing that were broken as part of that
  215. # [18:28] <fantasai> antonp: e.g. overflow used to a pply to tables, but doesn't as a result of that
  216. # [18:28] <fantasai> antonp: basically the edit there is taking the spec back to what it was supposed to be saying
  217. # [18:28] <fantasai> antonp: we can fix those two bugs by being very explicit, and just say exactly which boxes are affected
  218. # [18:29] <fantasai> antonp: but the primary motivation for using this term is that CSS3 specs need to use it
  219. # [18:29] * sylvaing thought there were options. wasn't this issue. my bad.
  220. # [18:29] <fantasai> antonp: since it's useful to 2.1 and 3, better to make these edits
  221. # [18:29] <fantasai> Rossen: just concerned about introducing any implementation changes to 2.1
  222. # [18:30] <fantasai> sylvaing: the question is, do we need to change testcases. If yes, then we need to take a closer look at this
  223. # [18:30] <fantasai> sylvaing: If there are testcases, should be part of the proposal
  224. # [18:30] <fantasai> antonp: I believe there are testcases, part of the reason these bugs were filed was because they didn't match the testcases
  225. # [18:31] <sylvaing> bringing the spec in line with the test suite is fine imo
  226. # [18:31] <fantasai> http://test.csswg.org/shepherd/testcase/overflow-applies-to-013/name/overflow/title/table/
  227. # [18:32] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Proposal accepted pending dbaron's review and acceptance
  228. # [18:32] <Zakim> -??P18
  229. # [18:32] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.aa]
  230. # [18:32] <fantasai> Topic: Flexbox
  231. # [18:32] <Rossen> Zakim, [Microsoft.aa] is me
  232. # [18:32] <Zakim> +Rossen; got it
  233. # [18:33] * Quits: jet (jet@67.169.43.128) (Quit: jet)
  234. # [18:33] <fantasai> fantasai: First issue is, does the order property have an effect on the z-order/ painting order
  235. # [18:34] <fantasai> fantasai: do you follow document order when painting, or do you follow the order-modified order
  236. # [18:34] <fantasai> alexmog: also tab-order
  237. # [18:34] <fantasai> fantasai: that's a separate question
  238. # [18:35] <fantasai> fantasai sez stuff
  239. # [18:35] <fantasai> smfr: From implementation perspective, would prefer if flex order didn't affect painting order
  240. # [18:35] <fantasai> alexmog: I think these are related, if we make tab-order change, then z-order should also change
  241. # [18:36] <fantasai> alexmog: from accessibility pov, whole point of changing order is that you don't change your tree, you only change little bit in cells, it looks like the order is different
  242. # [18:36] * Joins: jet (jet@67.169.43.128)
  243. # [18:36] <fantasai> alexmog: tab dialogs, one item's bring to front
  244. # [18:36] * Ms2ger congratulates sylvaing on his influence about Mozilla
  245. # [18:36] <fantasai> alexmog: you still read stuff in original source order
  246. # [18:36] <fantasai> smfr: if you have flex order affect painting order, the author puts in z-index, what happens?
  247. # [18:37] <fantasai> smfr: what stacking context are you using to paint the flex items
  248. # [18:37] <fantasai> smfr: can items interleave with flex items
  249. # [18:37] <fantasai> fantasai: z-index still works as usual
  250. # [18:37] * sylvaing Ms2ger that'll look great on my review...
  251. # [18:38] <fantasai> fantasai: but if z-index has same number or auto, you use document order
  252. # [18:38] * sylvaing does not believe non-dbaron entities can remember discussions from two years ago.
  253. # [18:38] <fantasai> fantasai: question is, does 'order' affect the document order fallback for painting, or do you just you striaght-up document order
  254. # [18:38] * Joins: alexmog_ (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  255. # [18:39] * Ms2ger nimbu, "Best test" for a test whose pass condition is questioned by dbaron? :)
  256. # [18:39] * Joins: dbaron (dbaron@70.36.140.99)
  257. # [18:39] <glazou> who flushed the toilets?
  258. # [18:39] <fantasai> alexmog: the last time we discussed this, a couple years ago, we concluded at that point that reordering is a major enough change that everything looks as if it really was in a different order, and it makes sense to actually render in this new order
  259. # [18:39] <Zakim> + +1.415.766.aaff
  260. # [18:39] * dbaron Zakim, aaff is dbaron
  261. # [18:39] * Zakim +dbaron; got it
  262. # [18:39] * sylvaing Ms2ger I think the fact that it failed in different ways across browsers is what made it most interesting....
  263. # [18:40] <fantasai> alexmog: nobody could come up with use cases where it's important to preserve source order for painting
  264. # [18:40] <fantasai> alexmog: if there is any overlap of items, if it is ever intentional, painting order that matches order in flexbox would make sense
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  267. # [18:41] <fantasai> alexmog: IE reorders by order, and it does simplify implementation
  268. # [18:41] <fantasai> fantasai^: IIRC, webkit prefers painting order to be affected; for Mozilla, we can go either way, but I think simplifies our implementation somewhat
  269. # [18:41] <fantasai> smfr: if webkit impl is ok with it, then fine with me
  270. # [18:41] <fantasai> antonp: [...]
  271. # [18:42] <fantasai> antonp: if you make 3-column layout, you probably want each column to be stacking context anyway, would use z-index anyway
  272. # [18:42] <fantasai> florian: I think I'm hearing most people wanting painting order following order
  273. # [18:42] <fantasai> plinss: Yes, though I'm hearing some concerns about tab-order
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  276. # [18:43] <fantasai> fantasai would like to tackle that as a separate issue, since it affects other things
  277. # [18:43] <fantasai> Rossen: do we have a similar thing for grid?
  278. # [18:43] <fantasai> alexmog: Discussed in grid, in grid there is no order, everything is explicitly placed into its slot
  279. # [18:43] <fantasai> alexmog: no sequence in grid, so not applicable there
  280. # [18:44] <fantasai> alexmog: if at some point order is universally applicable, then it should be treated same way wherever it's applicable
  281. # [18:44] <fantasai> plinss: proposal is for order to affect painting order. Any objections?
  282. # [18:44] <fantasai> RESOLVED: order affects painting order
  283. # [18:44] <fantasai> http://wiki.csswg.org/topics/css3-flexbox-flexbox-replaced-children
  284. # [18:45] <fantasai> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-css3-flexbox-20120612/#flex-items
  285. # [18:45] <fantasai> Current spec text goes with Proposal A
  286. # [18:45] <fantasai> fantasai: proposal A can be recast in terms of proposal B at a later point
  287. # [18:46] <fantasai> alexmog: I would prefer to revert to the old wording
  288. # [18:46] <fantasai> alexmog: Someone said it's a problem with replaced elements vs. non-replaced elements having different styling during loading
  289. # [18:46] <fantasai> alexmog: whatever browser does this cannot pass Acid2
  290. # [18:46] <fantasai> ...
  291. # [18:47] <fantasai> florian: for me that's not the motivation
  292. # [18:47] <fantasai> florian: we're doing this because these elements have the wrong display type
  293. # [18:47] <fantasai> florian: for other things the user can change the display type to whatever they want
  294. # [18:47] <fantasai> florian: Proposal B lets you opt out
  295. # [18:48] <fantasai> fantasai clarifies that Alex is asking for previous WD's behavior
  296. # [18:49] <fantasai> dbaron: what happens if an element is replaced due to CSS3 'content' property?
  297. # [18:49] <fantasai> florian: I like proposal B best
  298. # [18:49] <fantasai> florian: I would not like to be stuck with Proposal A forever
  299. # [18:49] <fantasai> florian: what Alex is saying sounds suboptimal to me but is acceptable
  300. # [18:49] <fantasai> alexmog: I can live with any of those, just seems inconsistent that replaced inline elements have special behavior that's already defined an known
  301. # [18:50] <fantasai> alexmog: and object fallback depends on those
  302. # [18:50] <dbaron> alex (in response to dbaron): the same (follow the rules for whether 'width' and 'height' apply)
  303. # [18:51] <fantasai> fantasai: One complication here is that Mozilla falls back to inline when <img> elements don't load, but some other browsers treat them as inline-block
  304. # [18:51] <fantasai> fantasai: whereas I believe some other impls don't
  305. # [18:51] <fantasai> fantasai: so you'll get different results
  306. # [18:52] <fantasai> antonp: I think it make sense for these elements to have special behavior
  307. # [18:52] <dbaron> I don't see anything in html5 saying img should be anything other than display:inline when there's no resource
  308. # [18:52] <fantasai> plinss: have 3 proposals on table, not hearing consensus
  309. # [18:53] <fantasai> florian: To me Proposal A is only acceptable because we can later switch to B
  310. # [18:53] <dbaron> same for canvas
  311. # [18:53] <fantasai> florian: To me it doesn't make sense to have A in the list because what I want is B
  312. # [18:54] <fantasai> fantasai: I think I'd like to summarize the situation and resolve when Tab's back
  313. # [18:54] <fantasai> florian: Does anyone disagree that B is better than A
  314. # [18:54] <fantasai> antonp: I think A should be followed by B, but not sure it should be instantly
  315. # [18:55] <fantasai> florian: concerned that we might be stuck with A if it takes too long to do B
  316. # [18:55] <fantasai> fantasai: ...
  317. # [18:55] <fantasai> alexmog: if A or B, would rather do B
  318. # [18:55] <fantasai> alexmog: yet another thing to do would be to treat any element that is a direct child of flexbox as a flex items
  319. # [18:56] <fantasai> alexmog: from all usecase we have, plaintext in flexbox is not a use case
  320. # [18:56] <fantasai> alexmog: just do something to not lose content when it's there
  321. # [18:56] <fantasai> alexmog: could just have any element, e.g. <b> or <i>, be a flex item
  322. # [18:56] <fantasai> alexmog: you'd get weird results if you have formatted text in a flexbox, but that's not a use case
  323. # [18:57] <fantasai> ACTION: fantasai summarize discussion
  324. # [18:57] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  325. # [18:57] <trackbot> Created ACTION-476 - Summarize discussion [on Elika Etemad - due 2012-06-27].
  326. # [18:57] * RRSAgent records action 1
  327. # [18:57] <bradk> * { display: flex; }
  328. # [18:57] <fantasai> fantasai^: don't think we'll get stuck with A, B just has A implemented as ua.css rules
  329. # [18:57] <fantasai> fantasai^: Have a bigger problem that might get stuck with flex items returning 'display: block'
  330. # [18:58] <fantasai> fantasai^: and can't change to returning 'display: flex-item'
  331. # [18:58] <fantasai> Topic: Background Attachment and Transforms
  332. # [18:58] <plinss> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17521
  333. # [18:58] <smfr> http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-transforms/
  334. # [18:58] <fantasai> smfr: In CSS transforms spec there's a sentence that says
  335. # [18:58] <fantasai> smfr: [quotes spec]
  336. # [18:58] * fantasai someone please paste
  337. # [18:58] <fantasai> smfr: and there's a note that this behaves like a porthole -- you see the background through the porthole
  338. # [18:59] <fantasai> smfr: this kindof makes sense for 2D transforms, butfor 3D it's extremely hard to implement
  339. # [18:59] <fantasai> smfr: Making that element behave like a porthole where you see an untransformed background
  340. # [18:59] <smfr> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17521
  341. # [18:59] <fantasai> smfr: one possible amendment to the spec owuld be to say that bg-attach: fixed affected by trasnform treated like scroll
  342. # [19:00] * antonp has to drop off the call early, sorry
  343. # [19:00] <Zakim> -antonp
  344. # [19:00] * Parts: antonp (50a94e63@207.192.75.252)
  345. # [19:00] <fantasai> fantasai: Would it make sense to have the fixed background be transformed with the rest of the element? Rather than just ignoring fixedness
  346. # [19:00] <fantasai> florian: would make sense, why would you do that as an author?
  347. # [19:01] <fantasai> smfr: Your suggestion is tricky because how you render that background before applying that transformed
  348. # [19:01] <fantasai> smfr: so, you render the element as if screen-aligned, then transform
  349. # [19:01] <fantasai> smfr: not sure what left/top offset you'd use
  350. # [19:01] <fantasai> smfr: when you scroll page you'll have this shifting of that background
  351. # [19:02] <fantasai> krit: background should transform with the element
  352. # [19:02] <fantasai> smfr: dbaron gave us some history, that bg-attach fixed was only intended for root element.
  353. # [19:02] <fantasai> smfr: sortof crept into applying to other elements
  354. # [19:02] <fantasai> smfr: any other implementers with feedback? IE?
  355. # [19:03] <dbaron> I'm sure Gecko does something, but I don't know what, and it's hard to work out what's hard off the top of my head.
  356. # [19:03] <fantasai> arronei: Not sure, have to look that up and check
  357. # [19:03] <fantasai> florian: I don't know for Opera
  358. # [19:03] <fantasai> smfr: maybe get action items from other vendors to investigate
  359. # [19:04] <fantasai> florian: from our POV, probably too early to tell
  360. # [19:04] <fantasai> sylvaing: pretty sure we don't do porthole thing, but I'll check what we do
  361. # [19:04] <fantasai> krit: are there test files?
  362. # [19:04] <fantasai> ACTION: smfr make a testcase
  363. # [19:04] * RRSAgent records action 2
  364. # [19:04] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  365. # [19:04] <trackbot> Created ACTION-477 - Make a testcase [on Simon Fraser - due 2012-06-27].
  366. # [19:04] <fantasai> ACTION: florian ask Opera
  367. # [19:04] * RRSAgent records action 3
  368. # [19:04] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  369. # [19:04] <trackbot> Created ACTION-478 - Ask Opera [on Florian Rivoal - due 2012-06-27].
  370. # [19:04] <fantasai> ACTION: dbaron check Gecko wrt bg-attach and transforms
  371. # [19:04] * RRSAgent records action 4
  372. # [19:04] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  373. # [19:04] <trackbot> Created ACTION-479 - Check Gecko wrt bg-attach and transforms [on David Baron - due 2012-06-27].
  374. # [19:05] <fantasai> ACTION: sylvaing check bg-attach with transforms
  375. # [19:05] * RRSAgent records action 5
  376. # [19:05] * trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
  377. # [19:05] <trackbot> Created ACTION-480 - Check bg-attach with transforms [on Sylvain Galineau - due 2012-06-27].
  378. # [19:05] <fantasai> plinss: should also give some thought to what the right thing to do is
  379. # [19:05] <fantasai> bradk: Sounds like if the bg was large enough, and coordinates ok, could have something look good
  380. # [19:05] <fantasai> s/something/portal
  381. # [19:05] <fantasai> deferred to next week
  382. # [19:05] <fantasai> Topic: page-break: recto/verso
  383. # [19:07] <fantasai> fantasai summarizes
  384. # [19:07] <fantasai> glazou: These will be easy to understand in Europe
  385. # [19:07] <fantasai> plinss: these are industry standard terms going back ages
  386. # [19:07] <fantasai> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recto_and_verso
  387. # [19:08] <fantasai> florian: sounds good to me
  388. # [19:08] <fantasai> RESOLVED: add recto/verso values to page-break-before/page-break-after in css3-break
  389. # [19:08] <Zakim> -krit
  390. # [19:08] <Zakim> -glazou
  391. # [19:08] <Zakim> -Rossen
  392. # [19:08] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  393. # [19:08] * Quits: bradk (bradk@99.7.175.117) (Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/ )
  394. # [19:08] <Zakim> -dbaron
  395. # [19:08] <Zakim> -fantasai
  396. # [19:08] <Zakim> -sylvaing
  397. # [19:08] <Zakim> -smfr
  398. # [19:08] * Quits: JohnJansen (qw3birc@128.30.52.28) (Quit: Page closed)
  399. # [19:08] <Zakim> -plinss
  400. # [19:08] * Quits: glazou (glazou@82.247.96.19) (Quit: glazou)
  401. # [19:08] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
  402. # [19:08] <Zakim> -bradk
  403. # [19:09] <Zakim> -??P50
  404. # [19:09] <Zakim> -florian
  405. # [19:09] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  406. # [19:09] <Zakim> Attendees were plinss, glazou, arronei, florian, +93550aaaa, [Microsoft], antonp, +1.206.324.aabb, sylvaing, +1.408.636.aacc, +1.650.275.aadd, smfr, fantasai, bradk,
  407. # [19:09] <Zakim> ... +1.415.832.aaee, JohnJansen, nimub, Rossen, +1.415.766.aaff, dbaron
  408. # [19:09] * Parts: florian (florianr@91.203.96.240)
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  415. # [19:55] <fantasai> sylvaing: didn't you have a note you wanted to add to css3-background?
  416. # [19:55] <sylvaing> yes, it's on www-style
  417. # [19:56] <sylvaing> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Jun/0445.html
  418. # [19:56] <sylvaing> rewordings welcome, I didn't spend much time on it but hopefully the goal is clear
  419. # [19:57] <fantasai> cool, thanks :)
  420. # [19:57] * fantasai will try to get that in
  421. # [19:57] * fantasai wonders if there's anything else we should fold in editorially, or if we should just push an update to /TR now
  422. # [19:58] <sylvaing> I can't think of other things myself
  423. # [19:58] <sylvaing> I do want to spend more time reviewing css3-background testcases though
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  464. # Session Close: Thu Jun 21 00:00:01 2012

The end :)