/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2012-08-29 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Aug 29 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #css
  3. # [00:15] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: http://www.pushing-pixels.org/2011/11/04/about-those-vector-icons.html
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  9. # [00:47] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Nov/0210.html
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  54. # [09:33] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: We should cross-check css4-images against the minutes before publishing
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  57. # [09:44] <jdaggett> fantasai: oh you time traveler you...
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  91. # [17:36] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/29-css-irc
  92. # [17:36] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
  93. # [17:36] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 33 minutes
  94. # [17:37] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
  95. # [17:37] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
  96. # [17:42] * plinss_away is now known as plinss
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  101. # [18:04] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
  102. # [18:04] <Zakim> +??P6
  103. # [18:04] <glazou> Zakim, who is here?
  104. # [18:04] <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P6
  105. # [18:04] <glazou> Zakim, ??P6 is me
  106. # [18:04] <Zakim> On IRC I see dbaron, lstorset, logbot, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou, jet, krit, koji, miketaylr, myakura, drublic, Ms2ger, tantek, arronei, Liam, decadance, Bert, trackbot, dholbert,
  107. # [18:04] <Zakim> ... Hixie, hober, TabAtkins_, gsnedders, fantasai, jwir3, cabanier, shepazu, isherman, krijnh, alexmog, vhardy, sylvaing, shans, CSSWG_LogBot, heycam|away, paul_irish, stearns,
  108. # [18:04] <Zakim> ... plinss, macpherson
  109. # [18:04] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
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  111. # [18:06] * leaverou is now known as lea
  112. # [18:06] * Joins: antonp (Bombadil@80.169.78.99)
  113. # [18:07] <Zakim> +stearns
  114. # [18:07] <Zakim> +plinss
  115. # [18:08] <Zakim> +krit
  116. # [18:08] <Zakim> +hober
  117. # [18:09] <Zakim> +florian
  118. # [18:09] <lstorset> Zakim, florian is me
  119. # [18:09] <Zakim> +lstorset; got it
  120. # [18:09] <Zakim> +antonp
  121. # [18:09] <Zakim> +Bert
  122. # [18:10] <Zakim> +SteveZ
  123. # [18:10] * Joins: bradk (bradk@71.198.253.84)
  124. # [18:10] * Ms2ger didn't know lstorset was Florian
  125. # [18:10] <Zakim> + +1.415.615.aaaa
  126. # [18:11] * lstorset decided to merge with Florian after he quit :p
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  129. # [18:11] <glazou> Zakim:
  130. # [18:11] * lstorset (quit Opera, that is)
  131. # [18:11] <glazou> Zakim, aaaa is rhauck
  132. # [18:11] <Zakim> +rhauck; got it
  133. # [18:11] * Joins: oyvind (oyvinds@91.203.97.251)
  134. # [18:11] * Joins: smfr (smfr@173.228.90.242)
  135. # [18:12] <glazou> lea: joining the call?
  136. # [18:12] <Zakim> +dbaron
  137. # [18:12] <glazou> Regrets: jjansen, sylvaing
  138. # [18:12] <Zakim> +smfr
  139. # [18:12] * Joins: florianr (yaaic@194.221.86.101)
  140. # [18:12] <Zakim> +??P37
  141. # [18:13] * Quits: bradk (bradk@71.198.253.84) (Ping timeout)
  142. # [18:13] * smfr changes topic to 'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Aug/0858.html'
  143. # [18:13] <lea> glazou: yes
  144. # [18:13] * Quits: florianr (yaaic@194.221.86.101) (Connection reset by peer)
  145. # [18:13] <plinss> rhauck: http://www.w3.org/1998/12/bridge/info/name.php3
  146. # [18:13] <glazou> Zakim, mute ?P37
  147. # [18:13] <Zakim> sorry, glazou, I do not know which phone connection belongs to ?P37
  148. # [18:14] <Zakim> +lea
  149. # [18:14] * Bert sees that the WG now has exactly 80 members. I don't think we've ever been so big.
  150. # [18:14] <glazou> right Bert
  151. # [18:14] <glazou> and never had so many active members too
  152. # [18:14] * dbaron Zakim, who is noisy?
  153. # [18:15] * Joins: TabAtkins (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
  154. # [18:15] * Zakim dbaron, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: lstorset (16%), Bert (15%), lea (5%)
  155. # [18:15] <rhauck> thanks Peter
  156. # [18:15] <Zakim> + +1.281.305.aabb
  157. # [18:15] <TabAtkins> zakim, aabb is me
  158. # [18:15] <Zakim> +TabAtkins; got it
  159. # [18:15] * Bert zakim, mute me
  160. # [18:15] * Zakim Bert should now be muted
  161. # [18:15] <Zakim> -TabAtkins
  162. # [18:15] <SteveZ> scribenick SteveZ
  163. # [18:16] <SteveZ> TPAC
  164. # [18:16] * Bert zakim, unmute me
  165. # [18:16] * Zakim Bert should no longer be muted
  166. # [18:16] * dbaron Zakim, who is on the phone?
  167. # [18:16] * Zakim sees on the phone: glazou, stearns, plinss, krit, hober, lstorset, antonp, Bert, SteveZ, rhauck, dbaron, smfr, ??P37, lea
  168. # [18:16] * TabAtkins Ugh, closed my phone. >_<
  169. # [18:16] <Zakim> +??P14
  170. # [18:16] <SteveZ> Bert Do we need to reserve a polycom device
  171. # [18:16] * Joins: florianr (yaaic@194.221.86.101)
  172. # [18:16] <Zakim> +TabAtkins
  173. # [18:16] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
  174. # [18:16] <SteveZ> Daniel: Will a Skype device suffice"
  175. # [18:16] <koji> zakim, [ipcaller] is me
  176. # [18:16] <Zakim> +koji; got it
  177. # [18:17] <SteveZ> Bert: using Zakim is no problem, but we would need to rent a polycom
  178. # [18:17] <SteveZ> PeterL: just using Skype would be enough
  179. # [18:18] <Zakim> + +1.650.275.aacc
  180. # [18:18] <SteveZ> Daniel: John Daggett has provide the Skype device in the past; I will ping him to see if he is coming.
  181. # [18:18] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  182. # [18:18] <dbaron> Sylvain might also have one of those devices...
  183. # [18:18] <SteveZ> Daniel" where are we re the Sunday meeting
  184. # [18:18] * Joins: bradk (bradk@71.198.253.84)
  185. # [18:18] <arronei> zakim, microsoft has me
  186. # [18:18] <Zakim> +arronei; got it
  187. # [18:18] * Quits: florianr (yaaic@194.221.86.101) (Connection reset by peer)
  188. # [18:19] <SteveZ> Bert: the people that offered to pay will get an invoice for their contribution from Alexandra who is working on the details
  189. # [18:20] <SteveZ> Daniel: make sure to notify the contributers who gets the invoice
  190. # [18:20] <bradk> zakim, who is here?
  191. # [18:20] <Zakim> On the phone I see glazou, stearns, plinss, krit, hober, lstorset, antonp, Bert, SteveZ, rhauck, dbaron, smfr, ??P37, lea, ??P14, TabAtkins, koji, +1.650.275.aacc, [Microsoft]
  192. # [18:20] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has arronei
  193. # [18:20] <Zakim> On IRC I see bradk, TabAtkins, smfr, oyvind, SteveZ, rhauck, antonp, lea, dbaron, lstorset, logbot, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou, jet, krit, koji, miketaylr, myakura, drublic, Ms2ger,
  194. # [18:20] <Zakim> ... tantek, arronei, Liam, decadance, Bert, trackbot, dholbert, Hixie, hober, TabAtkins_, gsnedders, fantasai, jwir3, cabanier, shepazu, isherman, krijnh, alexmog, vhardy,
  195. # [18:20] <Zakim> ... sylvaing, shans, CSSWG_LogBot, heycam|away, paul_irish, stearns, plinss, macpherson
  196. # [18:20] <bradk> zakim, aacc is me
  197. # [18:20] <Zakim> +bradk; got it
  198. # [18:21] <SteveZ> SteveZ, Tab, Aaron: we will check if an invoice to INRIA in euros is OK
  199. # [18:21] * Bert zakim, mute me
  200. # [18:21] * Zakim Bert should now be muted
  201. # [18:21] <Bert> s/INRIA/ERCIM/
  202. # [18:21] <SteveZ> Daniel: Can we invite Florian Rivoval as an invited expert
  203. # [18:21] <SteveZ> no objections
  204. # [18:21] <SteveZ> Resolved: Florian is invited
  205. # [18:22] <SteveZ> Daniel: Can we invite Simon Sapin as an Invited Expert
  206. # [18:22] <SteveZ> no objection
  207. # [18:22] * Bert zakim, unmute me
  208. # [18:22] * Zakim Bert should no longer be muted
  209. # [18:22] <SteveZ> Resolved: Invite Simon Sapin
  210. # [18:23] * Bert zakim, mute me
  211. # [18:23] * Zakim Bert should now be muted
  212. # [18:23] <stearns> http://testthewebforward.org/paris-2012.html
  213. # [18:23] <SteveZ> Bert: Florian has already sent his form so I only need to tell Philippe LeHegaret to continue processing
  214. # [18:23] * glazou will be
  215. # [18:23] <SteveZ> Topic: Test the Web Forward
  216. # [18:23] <Zakim> +fantasai
  217. # [18:23] * glazou waves at fantasai
  218. # [18:23] * Joins: florianr (yaaic@194.221.86.101)
  219. # [18:24] <SteveZ> Stearns: The 3rd instance will be Friday and Saturday before TPAC
  220. # [18:24] <stearns> please send a message to testthewebforward@gmail.com if you will be able to attend
  221. # [18:24] <SteveZ> Please send ability to attend to
  222. # [18:25] <SteveZ> Daniel: I will be there
  223. # [18:25] <SteveZ> Venue is TBD
  224. # [18:25] <glazou> http://wiki.csswg.org/topics/css-masking
  225. # [18:25] <SteveZ> Topic: CSS Masking
  226. # [18:25] <krit> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/FXTF/raw-file/tip/masking/index.html#the-mask-image
  227. # [18:26] * dbaron Zakim, who is noisy?
  228. # [18:26] * Zakim dbaron, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: glazou (9%), SteveZ (9%), TabAtkins (43%)
  229. # [18:26] <glazou> krit: speak slower for minute taking plase
  230. # [18:26] <glazou> please even
  231. # [18:27] <SteveZ> krit: Some people at F2F this was discussed and members requested more time to view spec.
  232. # [18:28] <SteveZ> krit: via mailing list some properties were removed
  233. # [18:29] <SteveZ> krit: can we remove some of the background properties: mask-attachment (not implemented by Webkit), mask-origin and mask-origin
  234. # [18:30] * Quits: myakura (myakura@49.129.49.171) (Client exited)
  235. # [18:30] <SteveZ> smfr: we should keep mask-origin be
  236. # [18:30] <TabAtkins> ScribeNick: TabAtkins
  237. # [18:30] <glazou> Zakim, who is noisy?
  238. # [18:30] <Zakim> glazou, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: glazou (14%), krit (4%), TabAtkins (58%)
  239. # [18:30] <smfr> smfr: mask-attachment could be used for interesting design issues
  240. # [18:31] <TabAtkins> krit: There's anothe rreason with keeping mask-origin.
  241. # [18:31] <glazou> glazou: mask-attachment could be use for keyhole views effects
  242. # [18:31] <TabAtkins> krit: CSS and SVG differ in how they apply.
  243. # [18:31] <fantasai> smfr^: But it has the same problems wrt transforms as background-attachment
  244. # [18:31] <TabAtkins> krit: SVG masks, all descendants of an element are grouped together and masked together.
  245. # [18:31] <TabAtkins> krit: This is especially relevant for percentage values.
  246. # [18:32] <TabAtkins> krit: 100% width is the boundingclientrect, etc.
  247. # [18:32] * Joins: Rossen (Rossen@131.107.192.20)
  248. # [18:32] <TabAtkins> smfr: In webkit, when you apply a mask to html, they create stackign contexts, just like opacity. So how is SVG different?
  249. # [18:32] <TabAtkins> krit: The diff is that if you have border-box, padding-box, etc, you clip to these boxes.
  250. # [18:32] <TabAtkins> krit: Every mask applied to these elements is clipped to the *-box of the element.
  251. # [18:33] <TabAtkins> smfr: Ah, this is why dhyatt was reluctant to propose these. They always hide overflow.
  252. # [18:33] <Zakim> -??P14
  253. # [18:33] <TabAtkins> krit: Right. SVG masking on firefox, though, allows overflowing content to be shown.
  254. # [18:33] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  255. # [18:33] <Rossen> Zakim, [Microsoft.a] is me
  256. # [18:33] <Zakim> +Rossen; got it
  257. # [18:33] <glazou> hi Rossen
  258. # [18:34] <TabAtkins> krit: So this is what I mean. When you mask to a group element, it gets applied to the group's bounding box (which by definition includes the entire contents, no overflowing).
  259. # [18:34] <TabAtkins> krit: I can post an example for it.
  260. # [18:34] <Rossen> Hi Daniel, I was on my car phone til now a.k.a. ??P14 :-)
  261. # [18:34] <TabAtkins> glazou: Speaking of the three properties you want to drop, would it be enough to mark them as at-risk?
  262. # [18:34] <TabAtkins> krit: Yeah.
  263. # [18:34] <TabAtkins> dbaron: at-risk is for when we think they're a good idea, but we're not sure we're going to get them. But this discussion is about whether they're a good idea or not.
  264. # [18:35] <TabAtkins> dbaron: If they're not a good idea, they should just be dropped.
  265. # [18:35] <TabAtkins> krit: There's already an issue that they might be dropped.
  266. # [18:35] <TabAtkins> krit: Another issue is, do we keep clip-path?
  267. # [18:35] <TabAtkins> krit: SVG already combines masking and clipping to one section.
  268. # [18:36] <TabAtkins> glazou: I'd like to resolve on the first three properties.
  269. # [18:36] <TabAtkins> smfr: I'd like to keep mask-origin.
  270. # [18:36] <TabAtkins> glazou: krit, are you okay with keeping mask-origin, and dropping the others?
  271. # [18:36] <TabAtkins> krit: Provisionally yes. It might depend on how we handle clipping of masks (to border-box or bounding box).
  272. # [18:36] <TabAtkins> zakim, who is noisy?
  273. # [18:36] <Zakim> TabAtkins, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Rossen (62%)
  274. # [18:37] <TabAtkins> krit: So I can provide some examples to help us to decide to keep, drop, or redefine.
  275. # [18:37] <glazou> Zakim, mute rossen
  276. # [18:37] <Zakim> Rossen should now be muted
  277. # [18:37] <krit> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/fx/wiki/Filter_Effects:_background_and_border_filter
  278. # [18:37] * Rossen sorry!
  279. # [18:38] <TabAtkins> krit: Here's an example from filter-effects to illustrate the problem.
  280. # [18:39] <TabAtkins> krit: Two nested elements, the child overflows its parent.
  281. # [18:39] <TabAtkins> krit: With SVG masking, percentages in the mask are referenced relative to the bounding box.
  282. # [18:39] <TabAtkins> krit: For webkit-mask, it would just be the border-box of the parent. Everything else would be masked away, and you can't do anything about it.
  283. # [18:39] * Quits: tantek (tantek@70.36.139.86) (Quit: tantek)
  284. # [18:39] <dbaron> I didn't hear well enough to understand the problem.
  285. # [18:40] * fantasai neither
  286. # [18:40] <TabAtkins> smfr: There's a real attraction to reuse the background properties for simplicity.
  287. # [18:40] <TabAtkins> smfr: [restates the problem]
  288. # [18:41] <TabAtkins> fantasai: I think, if you're going to use the same things in filter effects, it makes sense to have it apply to overflowing content too.
  289. # [18:41] <TabAtkins> dbaron: However, I don't think we want to take measurements based on an overflow rectangle.
  290. # [18:41] <TabAtkins> dbaron: It's not well defined, and even if it were, it would likely be confusing.
  291. # [18:42] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Similar issue - apply a mask to an inline with Zapfino, which overflows its em box. You don't want it to clip.
  292. # [18:42] <fantasai> or a filter
  293. # [18:42] <TabAtkins> szilles: What did you mean "overflow is not well defined"?
  294. # [18:43] <dbaron> krit: For ..., we just use the bounding client rect, which is just a union of border boxes, not overflow.
  295. # [18:43] <krit> http://www.w3.org/TR/cssom-view/#dom-element-getboundingclientrect
  296. # [18:44] * Quits: florianr (yaaic@194.221.86.101) (Quit: florianr)
  297. # [18:45] <TabAtkins> dbaron: There's not a good definition for what overflwo means.
  298. # [18:45] <TabAtkins> krit: You'd just use the concept of bounding rect, from CSSOM View.
  299. # [18:45] * Rossen agrees with Elika and Steve
  300. # [18:46] <smfr> q+
  301. # [18:46] * Zakim sees smfr on the speaker queue
  302. # [18:46] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: No, that's not what you want. CSS's notion of this pays no attention to the children of an element, only the boxes of the element itself. SVG has no elements which both have children and boxes, so it takes the collection of children and finds their bounding box. This is why CSS "ignores overflow".
  303. # [18:46] <glazou> Zakim, ack smfr
  304. # [18:46] <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
  305. # [18:47] <TabAtkins> smfr: There's a possible solution here.
  306. # [18:47] <SteveZ> Steve: if you have a line of text that overflows and you are puting a shadow on that text it is weird if the shadow disappears at the border boundary
  307. # [18:47] <TabAtkins> smfr: Say that masking is not always clipping to the border box - you allow the mask image to project outside the border box, but the sizing is still specified in the same way that background is sized.
  308. # [18:48] <TabAtkins> smfr: So it could cover the decorations of zapfino, but you'd keep the normal background sizing behavior.
  309. # [18:48] <TabAtkins> fantasai: I agree.
  310. # [18:48] <fantasai> TabAtkins: fantasai and I have been discussing allowing backgrounds to be drawn outside the border box, so agree with that
  311. # [18:48] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: fantasai and I have been exploring a similar issue with backgrounds themselves, so I think this is a good direction to go in.
  312. # [18:49] <TabAtkins> krit: What about percentages in sizing an SVG mask?
  313. # [18:49] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: Since SVG has no such thing as a padding box or border box, it can define what it wants (and use the bounding box of its descendants).
  314. # [18:50] <krit> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/FXTF/raw-file/tip/masking/index.html#clipping-paths
  315. # [18:50] <TabAtkins> krit: Okay, so next, should we keep clip-path in the spec? It's already used in Firefox.
  316. # [18:50] <Rossen> zakim, unmute me
  317. # [18:50] <Zakim> Rossen should no longer be muted
  318. # [18:50] <TabAtkins> krit: clip-path originally just referenced a <clipPath> from SVG, but I just extended it to also use the shape functions from exclusions.
  319. # [18:51] <TabAtkins> smfr: I don't feel strongly. It seems to overlap with 'clip'.
  320. # [18:51] <TabAtkins> krit: Yeah, but 'clip' only does rect(), and requires abspos.
  321. # [18:52] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: I'm interested in us merging clip and clip-path.
  322. # [18:53] <TabAtkins> dbaron: We'd probably have webcompat problems with that.
  323. # [18:53] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: There's a way around that - say that rect() only applies to abspos elements, but the other functions (including rectangle()) all work on all elements.
  324. # [18:53] <smfr> i support this
  325. # [18:53] <Rossen> Note that this discussion applies to CSS Shapes not CSS Exclusions, though they are in one spec at the moment we can split them at any time
  326. # [18:54] <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: Keep clipping in the Masking spec.
  327. # [18:54] <bradk> i would rather have a new "crop" property instead of "clip", with measurements from 4 edges
  328. # [18:54] <fantasai> that is really vague resolution
  329. # [18:54] <glazou> http://wiki.csswg.org/topics/interpolation-rotate3d
  330. # [18:54] <TabAtkins> Make a better one.
  331. # [18:54] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Keep clip-path in the Masking spec, mark integration with 'clip' as na issue
  332. # [18:54] <TabAtkins> krit: We discussed rotate3d() and numerical interpolation at the f2f.
  333. # [18:54] <TabAtkins> krit: Current behavior is that we always use matrix decomposition to interpolate.
  334. # [18:55] <krit> http://wiki.csswg.org/topics/interpolation-rotate3d
  335. # [18:55] <TabAtkins> krit: The group would like numerical interpolation.
  336. # [18:55] * fantasai wants to know what the resolutions were for the previous parts of the discussion
  337. # [18:55] <TabAtkins> krit: There are proposals near th eend of the wiki.
  338. # [18:55] * TabAtkins We only got the one.
  339. # [18:56] <glazou> fantasai: keep all with notes about potential drop
  340. # [18:56] <TabAtkins> krit: If you have two vectors that describe the same axis but point in different directions...
  341. # [18:56] * fantasai can we get that resolved? also, what else remains for fpwd?
  342. # [18:56] <TabAtkins> krit: Right now we define rotation around the axis according to the direction of the vector.
  343. # [18:56] <TabAtkins> krit: If they point in opposite direction, we need to decide how to interpolate the numbers.
  344. # [18:57] <glazou> RESOLVED: keep mask-* with note about possibility to drop in the future
  345. # [18:57] <fantasai> glazou, that seems very general... seems to say we should drop everything!
  346. # [18:57] <glazou> why note :-)
  347. # [18:57] <glazou> not
  348. # [18:57] <TabAtkins> krit: If we interpolate the vectors, it gets smaller first, becomes a point, then points in the opposite direction.
  349. # [18:57] <TabAtkins> krit: This means the rotation direction suddenly changes from CW to CCW.
  350. # [18:58] <fantasai> glazou, I thought we were only talking about a few specific properties, -attachment, etc.
  351. # [18:58] <glazou> yes
  352. # [18:58] <fantasai> then I don't think your resolution is warranted by the discussion
  353. # [18:58] <glazou> s/mask-*/mask-attachment mask-origin mask-clip
  354. # [18:58] <dbaron> did we agree to keep all of them?
  355. # [18:58] <fantasai> also, wasn't there agreement on having mask-clip somehow allow drawing outside the box?
  356. # [18:58] <fantasai> or dropping it and doing that?
  357. # [18:58] <dbaron> I thought there was discussion about mask-origin being useful
  358. # [18:59] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: I think it's uncontroversial to interpolate the angle when the vector is the same (after normalization). Interpolating the vector is harder.
  359. # [18:59] <dbaron> I don't remember support for the others.
  360. # [18:59] * fantasai neither
  361. # [18:59] <glazou> wait, let's finish rotate3d
  362. # [18:59] <TabAtkins> krit: Yes. And right now everyone supports it via decomposition, so it'll take time to change.
  363. # [19:00] <TabAtkins> smfr: What I care about is that if the normalized vectors match, do angle interpolation. I think it's fine to fall back to matrix interpolation otherwise.
  364. # [19:00] <TabAtkins> smfr: One thing I think isn't clear is whether you interpolate from rotateX() to rotate3d(1,0,0,...), that'll give you angle rotation or matrix interpolation.
  365. # [19:00] <TabAtkins> krit: Currently you do matrix.
  366. # [19:00] <TabAtkins> smfr: That's unfortunate.
  367. # [19:01] <TabAtkins> smfr: The spec currently defines a 2d set and a 3d set, and it's not clear whether they're equivalent.
  368. # [19:02] <TabAtkins> krit: That seems easy. I thought the resolution was for me to come up with a proposal to do vector interp.
  369. # [19:02] <TabAtkins> krit: Which I've done (interpolate x,y,z numerically).
  370. # [19:03] <TabAtkins> smfr: I don't think that's good. The "snapping" effect when going from 1,0,0 to -1,0,0 is no good.
  371. # [19:03] <TabAtkins> dbaron: Yeah, I'd rather fall back to matrix when the vectors don't match.
  372. # [19:03] * Quits: drublic (drublic@77.2.144.50) (Client exited)
  373. # [19:03] <TabAtkins> krit: Yeah, that would be the easiest way.
  374. # [19:03] * Joins: drublic (drublic@77.2.144.50)
  375. # [19:03] <TabAtkins> [no objections]
  376. # [19:04] <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: rotate3d() is interpolated by its angle when the two (normalized) vectors match, by matrix interpolation otherwise.
  377. # [19:04] <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: rotateX/Y() interpolate with rotate3d() in the obvious way.
  378. # [19:04] <dbaron> and rotateZ() ??
  379. # [19:05] <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: rotateX/Y/Z() interpolate with rotate3d() in the obvious way.
  380. # [19:05] <TabAtkins> glazou: returning to the mask discussion...
  381. # [19:05] <TabAtkins> fantasai: I heard we have concerns about attachment, people want origin, so what's hard?
  382. # [19:05] <dbaron> does anybody actually want mask-clip ?
  383. # [19:05] <TabAtkins> krit: Give me an action to come back with detailed proposals for these properties.
  384. # [19:07] <TabAtkins> fantasai: My proposal. We drop -attachment unless someone asks for it. We keep -origin. We drop -clip, and say that masks don't clip. (If you want to clip, use the box one.)
  385. # [19:07] <TabAtkins> krit: Okay, so any objections to removing -attachment?
  386. # [19:07] * Quits: drublic (drublic@77.2.144.50) (Ping timeout)
  387. # [19:07] <TabAtkins> dbaron: I'm fine with that.
  388. # [19:07] <TabAtkins> RESOLUTION: Remove mask-attachment from the Masking spec.
  389. # [19:07] <TabAtkins> RESOLUTION: Keep mask-origin in the Masking spec.
  390. # [19:07] <TabAtkins> glazou: What about mask-clip?
  391. # [19:07] <TabAtkins> smfr: I think we want to keep it. If we they extend out of the box, you may want to clip it.
  392. # [19:08] <TabAtkins> fantasai: I think it should extend by default, but give us an ability to clip it.
  393. # [19:08] <TabAtkins> dbaron: Do any of the options in mask-clip correspond to the behavior you're asking for?
  394. # [19:08] <TabAtkins> smfr: No, we'll need a new value.
  395. # [19:09] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Tab and I were thinking of no-clip when discussing this for background-*.
  396. # [19:09] <TabAtkins> fantasai: I think we have agreement that we need the ability to have the image not clipped by the box.
  397. # [19:09] <TabAtkins> fantasai: So either that becomes a new value of mask-clip, or it becomes the initial value of mask-clip, or we drop mask-clip and just make it how things always work.
  398. # [19:10] <smfr> yes
  399. # [19:10] <TabAtkins> glazou: No consensus, so defer to next call.
  400. # [19:10] * Parts: smfr (smfr@173.228.90.242)
  401. # [19:10] <Zakim> -dbaron
  402. # [19:10] <Zakim> -antonp
  403. # [19:10] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  404. # [19:10] <Zakim> -SteveZ
  405. # [19:10] <Zakim> -smfr
  406. # [19:10] <Zakim> -glazou
  407. # [19:10] <Zakim> -lea
  408. # [19:10] <Zakim> -bradk
  409. # [19:10] <Zakim> -Rossen
  410. # [19:10] <Zakim> -??P37
  411. # [19:10] <Zakim> -krit
  412. # [19:10] <Zakim> -koji
  413. # [19:10] <Zakim> -hober
  414. # [19:10] <Zakim> -lstorset
  415. # [19:10] <Zakim> -plinss
  416. # [19:10] <Zakim> -fantasai
  417. # [19:10] <Zakim> -stearns
  418. # [19:10] <Zakim> -TabAtkins
  419. # [19:10] <Zakim> -rhauck
  420. # [19:10] * Quits: glazou (glazou@85.168.27.11) (Quit: glazou)
  421. # [19:10] <Zakim> -Bert
  422. # [19:10] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  423. # [19:10] * Quits: bradk (bradk@71.198.253.84) (Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/ )
  424. # [19:10] <Zakim> Attendees were glazou, stearns, plinss, krit, hober, lstorset, antonp, Bert, SteveZ, +1.415.615.aaaa, rhauck, dbaron, smfr, lea, +1.281.305.aabb, TabAtkins, koji, +1.650.275.aacc,
  425. # [19:11] <Zakim> ... arronei, bradk, fantasai, [Microsoft], Rossen
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The end :)