/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2012-09-05 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Sep 05 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #css
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  10. # [00:26] <stearns> does it matter that CSS2.1 and CSS3 Images have conflicting definitions of <shape>?
  11. # [00:28] <stearns> TabAtkins_ , fantasai: ^
  12. # [00:30] <TabAtkins_> No, syntax productions are generally scoped to the spec, unless we explicitly call something out. We'll worry about conflicts if we ever produce combinations.
  13. # [00:31] <TabAtkins_> We're not great about this, of course - we probably refer to too many external things without explicitly saying that it's from X.
  14. # [00:31] <stearns> in http://dev.w3.org/csswg/cssom/#serializing-css-values , it shows how to serialize <shape>, which only does the 2.1 version
  15. # [00:33] <stearns> and of course, exclusions also has <shape>, which is either an extension of the 2.1 version or its own separate thing
  16. # [00:33] <TabAtkins_> The <shape> defined in radial-gradient is just a keyword, so it serializes as such.
  17. # [00:33] <TabAtkins_> I don't have a problem with doing some simple renaming to uniquify it, but it makes the grammar a bit harder to read by itself.
  18. # [00:36] <stearns> I'll post a question to www-style about my usage of <shape> and mention the images version as well
  19. # [00:36] <TabAtkins_> Cool.
  20. # [00:37] <TabAtkins_> I'd probably just rename them to <rg-shape> or something.
  21. # [00:37] <TabAtkins_> Still short, but no chance of conflict with general terms.
  22. # [00:37] <stearns> and if the prefix is unpronounceable I'd still read it as "shape"
  23. # [00:39] * Joins: miketaylr (miketaylr@70.112.101.224)
  24. # [00:40] <TabAtkins_> Yeah, exactly.
  25. # [00:40] <TabAtkins_> Or maybe just come up with a general prefix meaning "this is a convenience grammar production, and won't have meaning outside of this spec, or even outside of this feature".
  26. # [00:41] <TabAtkins_> Like <~shape> or something, I dunno.
  27. # [00:42] <stearns> oh god, I see bikeshedding on the syntax of grammar in the future
  28. # [00:43] <TabAtkins_> Haha, yeah.
  29. # [00:43] <TabAtkins_> Maybe just post it to w3c-style.
  30. # [00:43] <TabAtkins_> w3c-css-wg, that is.
  31. # [00:43] <TabAtkins_> It's not anything near a technical topic.
  32. # [00:44] <TabAtkins_> And that'll limit bikeshedding to just the WG.
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  35. # [01:31] <nimbu> fantasai: ahaha just now noticed bert's face is gone from the csswg website
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  102. # [17:29] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/05-css-irc
  103. # [17:29] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
  104. # [17:29] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 40 minutes
  105. # [17:29] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
  106. # [17:29] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
  107. # [17:37] * Joins: Molly (qw3birc@128.30.52.28)
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  115. # [18:04] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
  116. # [18:04] <Zakim> + +47.23.69.aaaa
  117. # [18:05] * Joins: bradk (bradk@71.198.253.84)
  118. # [18:05] <Zakim> + +1.604.312.aabb
  119. # [18:05] <Zakim> +plinss
  120. # [18:05] <rbetts> Zakim, aabb is me
  121. # [18:05] <Zakim> +rbetts; got it
  122. # [18:05] * Joins: lstorset (lastorset@91.203.96.240)
  123. # [18:06] <Zakim> +??P37
  124. # [18:06] <glazou> Zakim, ??P37 is me
  125. # [18:06] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
  126. # [18:06] <glazou> Zakim, who is noisy?
  127. # [18:06] <Zakim> glazou, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +47.23.69.aaaa (36%)
  128. # [18:06] <Zakim> +Lea
  129. # [18:07] <lstorset> Zakim, aaaa is me
  130. # [18:07] <Zakim> +lstorset; got it
  131. # [18:07] * glazou hates phone spammers on his landline right during csswg call
  132. # [18:08] * Joins: arron (arronei@131.107.192.108)
  133. # [18:08] <Zakim> +Molly_Holzschlag
  134. # [18:08] <Zakim> + +1.650.275.aacc
  135. # [18:09] <bradk> Zakim, aacc is me
  136. # [18:09] <Zakim> +bradk; got it
  137. # [18:09] <Zakim> +??P54
  138. # [18:09] <glazou> Zakim, who is noisy?
  139. # [18:09] <Zakim> + +1.206.390.aadd
  140. # [18:09] <Zakim> glazou, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 8 (9%), lstorset (5%), bradk (22%)
  141. # [18:10] <stearns> zakim, aadd is me
  142. # [18:10] <Zakim> +stearns; got it
  143. # [18:10] * Joins: smfr (smfr@173.228.90.242)
  144. # [18:11] <Zakim> + +1.408.636.aaee
  145. # [18:11] <smfr> Zakim, aaee is me
  146. # [18:11] <smfr> Zakim, you have the memory of a flea
  147. # [18:11] <Zakim> +smfr; got it
  148. # [18:11] <Zakim> I don't understand 'you have the memory of a flea', smfr
  149. # [18:13] <Zakim> +SteveZ
  150. # [18:14] <Zakim> +fantasai
  151. # [18:14] * Joins: koji (koji@222.158.227.129)
  152. # [18:15] <Zakim> + +1.415.766.aaff
  153. # [18:15] * dbaron Zakim, aaff is dbaron
  154. # [18:15] * Zakim +dbaron; got it
  155. # [18:16] * TabAtkins_ is coming.
  156. # [18:16] <plinss> zakim, who is here?
  157. # [18:16] <Zakim> On the phone I see lstorset, plinss, rbetts, glazou, Lea, Molly_Holzschlag, bradk, ??P54, stearns, smfr, SteveZ, fantasai, dbaron
  158. # [18:16] <Zakim> On IRC I see koji, smfr, arron, lstorset, bradk, rbetts, jet, dbaron, Molly, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou, leaverou, miketaylr, lgombos, drublic, macpherson__, Ms2ger, Liam, shepazu,
  159. # [18:16] <Zakim> ... decadance, isherman, arronei, logbot, ed, trackbot, Bert, dholbert, Hixie, hober, TabAtkins_, gsnedders, fantasai, jwir3, krijnh, alexmog, vhardy, sylvaing, shans,
  160. # [18:16] <Zakim> ... CSSWG_LogBot, heycam|away, paul_irish, stearns, plinss
  161. # [18:16] * Joins: SteveZ (chatzilla@99.137.192.144)
  162. # [18:16] <Zakim> + +1.650.253.aagg
  163. # [18:16] <Zakim> +??P85
  164. # [18:16] <TabAtkins_> zakim, aagg is me
  165. # [18:16] <Zakim> +TabAtkins_; got it
  166. # [18:16] <koji> zakim, ??p85 is me
  167. # [18:16] <Zakim> +koji; got it
  168. # [18:17] <smfr> scribenick: smfr
  169. # [18:17] * Molly finds it very hard to scribe over the phone
  170. # [18:17] * smfr changes topic to 'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Sep/0062.html'
  171. # [18:17] <smfr> Topic: CSS Masking
  172. # [18:18] <smfr> dirk won't be on the call; regrets
  173. # [18:18] <smfr> deferring the topic
  174. # [18:18] <smfr> Topic: flex box and non-visible overflow
  175. # [18:18] <smfr> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Aug/0403.html
  176. # [18:18] * Joins: nimbu (Adium@192.150.10.201)
  177. # [18:19] <smfr> TabAtkins_: inline blocks, when they have overflow other than visible, baseline is calc as lower margin edge
  178. # [18:19] <smfr> should flex boxes do something similar?
  179. # [18:19] <TabAtkins_> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-flexbox/#flex-baselines
  180. # [18:19] <Zakim> -Lea
  181. # [18:20] <smfr> TabAtkins_: for non-visible overflow, sythensize baseline from border box of the flexbox
  182. # [18:20] <smfr> TabAtkins_: want to make sure it's stable based on whether there's an item or not. think that border box is most stable
  183. # [18:20] <Zakim> +Lea
  184. # [18:21] <smfr> dbaron: mistake to change it at all based on whether there's overflow; authors are annoyed that overflow affects baselines
  185. # [18:21] <smfr> s/mistake/it was a mistake
  186. # [18:21] <smfr> TabAtkins_: i'm ok with that
  187. # [18:21] * leaverou my connection is having issues, so I'll probably disconnect and reconnect often, sorry
  188. # [18:21] <glazou> leaverou: np
  189. # [18:21] <glazou> TabAtkins_: you speak too fast
  190. # [18:22] <smfr> TabAtkins_: proposal: do baseline calculation like normal, but if it's scrollable, treat it like it has its initial scroll position
  191. # [18:22] * plinss tab clocked at .75timbls
  192. # [18:22] * Joins: florianr (yaaic@37.160.33.74)
  193. # [18:22] <glazou> LOL
  194. # [18:22] <smfr> plinss: do we propose to change this just for flex box, or also inline-block
  195. # [18:22] <smfr> dbaron: no, not a proposal to change inline-block
  196. # [18:23] <smfr> TabAtkins_: we can make a final decision next week
  197. # [18:23] <smfr> dbaron: fine with me
  198. # [18:23] <smfr> Topic: CSS4 Images FPWD
  199. # [18:23] <plinss> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Sep/0059.html
  200. # [18:24] <smfr> TabAtkins_: CSS4 images ready for FPWD; still lots of issues but we can discuss them
  201. # [18:24] <smfr> smfr: would this be the first PWD of a CSS4 spec?
  202. # [18:25] <smfr> dbaron: no, we did selectors 4
  203. # [18:25] <smfr> smfr: ok, so this doesn't trigger anything special
  204. # [18:25] * glazou Tab already said on his blog there is no such thing as CSS 4...
  205. # [18:25] <smfr> plinss: this will trigger a call for exclusions, as a FPWD
  206. # [18:25] * stearns two 'css4-*' URLs means that CSS4 now exists
  207. # [18:25] <smfr> no objections
  208. # [18:26] <smfr> RESOLVED: publish FPWD of CSS4 Images
  209. # [18:26] <smfr> Topic: at-risk counter styles
  210. # [18:26] * glazou stearns: in fact that's wrong ; it's a level4 of a spec...
  211. # [18:26] <smfr> wait for jdagget next week
  212. # [18:26] * leaverou stearns: Selectors 4 doesn't have a css4- prefix :)
  213. # [18:26] * Quits: bradk (bradk@71.198.253.84) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep)
  214. # [18:26] * stearns bah :)
  215. # [18:26] <smfr> Topic: QuerySelector() with namespaces
  216. # [18:26] * Joins: bradk (bradk@71.198.253.84)
  217. # [18:27] <smfr> glazou: needed to query selectors with the selectors API with namespaces, not possible right now
  218. # [18:27] <smfr> glazou: Anne's draft doesn't have anything
  219. # [18:27] <smfr> glazou: should we resume that document inside the CSS WG, and work on this
  220. # [18:27] * Quits: bradk (bradk@71.198.253.84) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep)
  221. # [18:27] <TabAtkins_> http://www.w3.org/TR/selectors-api2/ <-- current Selectors API draft
  222. # [18:27] <smfr> dbaron: there was a draft as part of the original querySelector draft. it had issues; mozilla had much of it implemented
  223. # [18:27] <smfr> dbaron: we should get a list of what those issues were
  224. # [18:27] * Joins: bradk (bradk@71.198.253.84)
  225. # [18:28] * Joins: krit (krit@192.150.10.200)
  226. # [18:28] <smfr> glazou: questions: do we want to resurrect this spec in the CSS WG, and if so, how should we proceed
  227. # [18:28] <smfr> TabAtkins_: do we need to or raise the issues with Lachlan?
  228. # [18:28] <smfr> TabAtkins_: it was last touched in late June, so is active
  229. # [18:28] <Zakim> + +1.415.832.aahh
  230. # [18:28] * Joins: oyvind (oyvinds@91.203.97.251)
  231. # [18:29] <krit> Zakim, aahh is me
  232. # [18:29] <Zakim> +krit; got it
  233. # [18:29] <Zakim> +[Apple]
  234. # [18:29] <hober> Zakim, Apple is me
  235. # [18:29] <Zakim> +hober; got it
  236. # [18:29] <smfr> glazou: is it something we want to do?
  237. # [18:29] * Quits: bradk (bradk@71.198.253.84) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep)
  238. # [18:29] <smfr> TabAtkins_: i would not object
  239. # [18:29] <dbaron> ... as long as they're not cumbersome
  240. # [18:30] <smfr> smfr: glazou, and you explain more?
  241. # [18:30] <smfr> glazou: need is in arbitrary XML documents, e.g. ePub
  242. # [18:30] * Joins: bradk (bradk@71.198.253.84)
  243. # [18:30] <smfr> glazou: it's a hole in that API, and hard to work around
  244. # [18:31] <smfr> glazou: really useful in XML
  245. # [18:31] <smfr> smfr: is there a risk of feature creep where a lot of different APIs would need to be namespace aware?
  246. # [18:31] <smfr> glazou: i don't think so, mainly the selectors API
  247. # [18:31] <dbaron> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-selectors-api-20071221/#nsresolver-interface was the last TR draft with NSResolver, but NSResolver had issues, if memory serves
  248. # [18:32] <smfr> glazou to raise the issue with Lachlan
  249. # [18:32] <smfr> Topic: CSS Masking
  250. # [18:32] <smfr> krit would like another editor for CSS Masking
  251. # [18:32] <smfr> TabAtkins_: I volunteer
  252. # [18:33] <smfr> left off last week with mask-clip
  253. # [18:33] * fantasai can we also do fpwd css3-sizing? seems to be missing from agenda https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2012JulSep/0257.html
  254. # [18:33] <smfr> defer discussing mask-clip
  255. # [18:33] * fantasai also WD css3-conditional https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2012JulSep/0255.html
  256. # [18:33] <smfr> Topic: FPWD of Intrinsic Sizing
  257. # [18:34] * dbaron Zakim, who is noisy?
  258. # [18:34] * Zakim dbaron, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: fantasai (73%), glazou (10%), bradk (5%)
  259. # [18:34] <smfr> fantasai: a couple of sections not written yet (tables, multi-col), but the draft should be coherent and we'd like to publish FPWD
  260. # [18:34] * glazou agrees
  261. # [18:35] * Joins: BradK_ (bradk@71.198.253.84)
  262. # [18:35] <smfr> RESOLVED: publish FPWD of Intrinsic Sizing level 3
  263. # [18:35] <smfr> Topic: CSS3 conditional
  264. # [18:35] * Quits: bradk (bradk@71.198.253.84) (Ping timeout)
  265. # [18:35] * BradK_ is now known as BradK
  266. # [18:35] <smfr> fantasai: CSS3 Conditional is ready to have another WD published
  267. # [18:35] <smfr> glazou: we have 2 different implementations?
  268. # [18:36] <smfr> fantasai: possibly 3 (prefixed one in IE)
  269. # [18:36] <smfr> plinss: how far from last call?
  270. # [18:36] <smfr> fantasai: WG needs to review this draft; next draft should be last call
  271. # [18:36] <smfr> plinss: any objections?
  272. # [18:36] <smfr> dbaron: no, but one comment. we had discussed having what's in CSS condition rule to be 2 separate interfaces
  273. # [18:37] <smfr> TabAtkins_: moving the grouping ?? up a level and having the condition rule inherit from that
  274. # [18:38] <smfr> fantasai: discussed at the F2F but didn't come up with final changes
  275. # [18:38] * glazou can't hear anyone any more
  276. # [18:38] * glazou missed 45sec
  277. # [18:38] <smfr> TabAtkins_: in the CSS OM part, talking about splitting the CSSConditionRule
  278. # [18:39] <smfr> so we have a rule about @rules that contain other rules, then other rules that inherit from that
  279. # [18:39] * smfr needs a link to the spec!
  280. # [18:39] <plinss> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-conditional/#the-cssconditionrule-interface
  281. # [18:40] * Quits: florianr (yaaic@37.160.33.74) (Ping timeout)
  282. # [18:40] <smfr> TabAtkins_: i support breaking this up
  283. # [18:40] <smfr> plinss: before we publish?
  284. # [18:40] <smfr> TabAtkins_: yes
  285. # [18:40] <smfr> TabAtkins_: gonna do it live!
  286. # [18:40] <smfr> plinss: any objections?
  287. # [18:40] <dbaron> I think CSSGroupRule would be the obvious name for the upper half
  288. # [18:41] <smfr> RESOLVED: TabAtkins_ to split CSSConditionRule
  289. # [18:41] <smfr> RESOLVED: publish WD of CSS3 conditional after TabAtkins_ makes the CSSConditionRule change
  290. # [18:41] <smfr> plinss: anyone working on a test suite for this?
  291. # [18:42] <Zakim> -Lea
  292. # [18:42] <smfr> dbaron: mozilla and opera have both contributed a bunch of tests for @supports
  293. # [18:42] <smfr> plinss: we have almost 100 testes
  294. # [18:42] <smfr> s/testes/tests
  295. # [18:43] <smfr> Topic: Working Group Priorities
  296. # [18:43] <smfr> glazou: 4 years ago in San Diego, we started with a deep prioritization of the activities of the WG
  297. # [18:43] <smfr> glazou: now that CSS 2.1 is over, and we have so many documents under work, it is time to do the same again,
  298. # [18:43] <smfr> so make the specs advance at the right paces
  299. # [18:43] <Zakim> +Lea
  300. # [18:44] <smfr> we have almost 30 documents; what are the right specs to work on Right Now?
  301. # [18:44] <smfr> glazou: it's the right time to discuss the priorities again
  302. # [18:44] <smfr> glazou: ideas: ping the browser vendors in the WG, in full confidentiality, and get info on their strategic focuses
  303. # [18:45] <smfr> plinss: also looking at interest in implementation
  304. # [18:45] <smfr> dbaron: i'd rather the discussion be public
  305. # [18:45] <smfr> glazou: i'd prefer that of course, but some members would like to keep it private
  306. # [18:46] <TabAtkins_> Edits to the Conditional spec done: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-conditional/#the-cssgroupingrule-interface
  307. # [18:46] <smfr> dbaron: would it be OK to ping everyone in private, including a question about whether it's OK to make the answers public
  308. # [18:46] <smfr> dbaron: that's fine
  309. # [18:46] <smfr> Molly: would also like to hear from the invited experts, as well as the vendors
  310. # [18:46] <smfr> glazou: yes, ping all the WG members, not just browser vendors
  311. # [18:47] <smfr> Molly: so there are 2 layers of prioritization; implementation by the vendors, and the rest of the WG
  312. # [18:48] <smfr> glazou: what really matters is the implementability of the specs
  313. # [18:48] <smfr> glazou: i will send email before next week; make sure those emails get to the right people
  314. # [18:48] * Joins: florianr (yaaic@37.160.33.74)
  315. # [18:48] <smfr> give vendors 2 weeks to reply
  316. # [18:49] <smfr> plinss: data will be confidential, but the aggregated data will be public
  317. # [18:49] * florianr 's class is lasting longer than planned. Might not make it today.
  318. # [18:49] <smfr> krit: how is implementation defined?
  319. # [18:50] <smfr> plinss: how we normally do for getting a spec out of CR
  320. # [18:50] <smfr> plinss: any other topics to discuss?
  321. # [18:51] <Zakim> -lstorset
  322. # [18:51] <smfr> glazou: speaking of selectors 4, mozilla implemented :dir. Is it prefixed?
  323. # [18:51] <smfr> dbaron: it is not prefixed
  324. # [18:51] <smfr> glazou: do you plan to prefix ti?
  325. # [18:51] <smfr> s/ti/it
  326. # [18:51] <smfr> dbaron: i can look into it
  327. # [18:52] <Zakim> +lstorset
  328. # [18:52] <smfr> glazou: selectors are a very visible part of CSS; if we have anything to change before CR that could cause problems
  329. # [18:52] <smfr> glazou: we have only light reviews by i18n people
  330. # [18:53] <smfr> fantasai: we could take only the UI stuff for level for, and leave the other stuff (e.g. column selectors) for level 5
  331. # [18:53] <smfr> glazou: we should give people time to review
  332. # [18:54] <smfr> plinss: other topics?
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  335. # [18:54] <TabAtkins_> http://www.xanthir.com/b4Ko0
  336. # [18:54] <smfr> glazou: TabAtkins_ published a "no such thing as CSS4 item on his blog". We should probably publish on the W3C blog under the WG's name
  337. # [18:55] <fantasai> http://www.xanthir.com/b4Ko0
  338. # [18:55] <smfr> glazou: TabAtkins_ can you rephrase to make it more official, and submit to the WG for review?
  339. # [18:55] <smfr> TabAtkins_: can try but want glazou to check it
  340. # [18:56] * Molly has it in her contract to annoy glazou ;)
  341. # [18:56] <smfr> leaverou: does everyone agree with the level naming here?
  342. # [18:57] <smfr> fantasai: maybe leaverou can suggest some language to TabAtkins_
  343. # [18:57] <smfr> dbaron: i think we're stuck because of the way we make short names of drafts (because that requires going to the director)
  344. # [18:58] <smfr> fantasai: we need to come up with a naming plan, and get batch approval
  345. # [18:58] <dbaron> I disagree with Tab's assertion that there is a CSS3.
  346. # [18:58] <leaverou> dbaron: That's exactly what I was saying
  347. # [18:59] <smfr> plinss: we should come up with a concrete list of short names changes
  348. # [18:59] <smfr> fantasai: i can set up a wiki page with proposals
  349. # [18:59] <dbaron> I'd think shortnames should be either css-selectors-4, css-text-3, etc., or css-selectors4, css-text3, etc.
  350. # [18:59] <smfr> plinss: we haven't published a snapshot since 2010; supposed to do one every year
  351. # [19:00] <leaverou> dbaron: +1
  352. # [19:00] <dbaron> dbaron: they were also supposed to be normative until the director changed them
  353. # [19:00] <glazou> dbaron: +1
  354. # [19:00] <fantasai> nothing's changed since 2012 wrt snapshots
  355. # [19:00] <fantasai> they'd need a new section on CR drafts not yet tested
  356. # [19:00] <fantasai> to require an update
  357. # [19:00] <smfr> discussion of the normative nature of the spec
  358. # [19:00] * BradK has to leave a little early. Bye, everyone.
  359. # [19:00] <smfr> plinss: let's get a 2012 snapshot published
  360. # [19:01] <glazou> bye BradK
  361. # [19:01] * Quits: BradK (bradk@71.198.253.84) (Quit: Buh bye)
  362. # [19:01] <smfr> TabAtkins_: we will do a 2012 snapshot near the end of the year
  363. # [19:01] <Zakim> -bradk
  364. # [19:01] * Ms2ger wonders if the 2012 snapshot will be published in 2014
  365. # [19:01] <smfr> SteveZ: can we list candidates for what will go into the 2012 snapshot
  366. # [19:01] <smfr> fantasai: we need a test suite for the snapshot
  367. # [19:02] <smfr> SteveZ: we need to drive some of those test suites
  368. # [19:02] <smfr> plinss: last time we talked about publishing multiple ones during the year; we don't necessarily have to wait
  369. # [19:02] <smfr> fantasai: there's nothing worth publishing at the moment
  370. # [19:02] <Zakim> -Lea
  371. # [19:03] <smfr> plinss: we'll add a section to the wiki about renaming
  372. # [19:03] <Zakim> -dbaron
  373. # [19:03] <smfr> Meeting closed
  374. # [19:03] <Molly> bye!!!!
  375. # [19:03] <Zakim> -TabAtkins_
  376. # [19:03] <Zakim> -hober
  377. # [19:03] <Zakim> -fantasai
  378. # [19:03] <Zakim> -glazou
  379. # [19:03] <Zakim> -SteveZ
  380. # [19:03] <Zakim> -krit
  381. # [19:03] <Zakim> -lstorset
  382. # [19:03] <Zakim> -smfr
  383. # [19:03] <Zakim> +Lea
  384. # [19:03] <Zakim> -Molly_Holzschlag
  385. # [19:03] <Zakim> -rbetts
  386. # [19:03] <Zakim> -plinss
  387. # [19:03] <Zakim> -stearns
  388. # [19:03] <Zakim> -koji
  389. # [19:03] <Zakim> -Lea
  390. # [19:03] <Zakim> -??P54
  391. # [19:03] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  392. # [19:03] <Zakim> Attendees were +47.23.69.aaaa, +1.604.312.aabb, plinss, rbetts, glazou, Lea, lstorset, Molly_Holzschlag, +1.650.275.aacc, bradk, +1.206.390.aadd, stearns, +1.408.636.aaee, smfr,
  393. # [19:03] <Zakim> ... SteveZ, fantasai, +1.415.766.aaff, dbaron, +1.650.253.aagg, TabAtkins_, koji, +1.415.832.aahh, krit, hober
  394. # [19:04] * Quits: rbetts (rbetts@24.84.208.90) (Quit: rbetts)
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  396. # [19:07] * leaverou used to start her CSS3 workshop saying the most important thing they need to know about CSS3 is that there is no such thing :)
  397. # [19:07] * Quits: florianr (yaaic@37.160.33.74) (Ping timeout)
  398. # [19:07] <TabAtkins_> Heh, that's fine.
  399. # [19:11] * Parts: lstorset (lastorset@91.203.96.240)
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  407. # [19:27] <oyvind> having "CSS3" not be a thing seems better than having CSS [whatever] Level 4 be part of CSS3, that's just confusing
  408. # [19:27] <nimbu> oyvind++++
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  411. # [19:29] * fantasai agrees with that!
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  431. # [20:45] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: you have the conditionalrules stuff all set to publish?
  432. # [20:45] <nimbu> fantasai: what should we do to make it no longer css3?
  433. # [20:45] <nimbu> i mean anything from w3c side?
  434. # [20:45] <nimbu> i am sure every browser vendor would be happy to write articles/posts/tweets to promote whatever change happens on w3c specs.
  435. # [20:47] <fantasai> we've done about as much as we can, aside from changing all the shortnames
  436. # [20:47] * Joins: drublic (drublic@93.132.225.24)
  437. # [20:47] <fantasai> nimbu: although improvements to the Snapshot wording are always welcome :)
  438. # [20:48] * fantasai should probably do another audit of our spec titles, some new ones are not right
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  442. # [20:55] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
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  451. # [22:21] <nimbu> fantasai: i think we should definitely change the shortnames no?
  452. # [22:21] <nimbu> i mean its the single biggest indication >_>
  453. # [22:21] <nimbu> like css3-content/
  454. # [22:22] <nimbu> and so on
  455. # [22:22] <nimbu> change it to css alone.
  456. # [22:22] <leaverou> or css-content-3
  457. # [22:22] <nimbu> o to indicate level?
  458. # [22:23] <leaverou> yeah
  459. # [22:23] <nimbu> idk i dont think it is critical.
  460. # [22:23] <leaverou> and have css-content redirect to the largest level available
  461. # [22:23] <nimbu> ya
  462. # [22:23] <nimbu> basically
  463. # [22:23] <nimbu> thats what we need.
  464. # [22:23] <nimbu> css-content on parent
  465. # [22:23] <nimbu> and levels maybe within?
  466. # [22:23] <leaverou> oh, even better!
  467. # [22:23] <nimbu> and parent redirects to highest level possible.
  468. # [22:23] <leaverou> if that's possible
  469. # [22:23] <nimbu> yaa
  470. # [22:23] <nimbu> plinss: ^^^
  471. # [22:23] <leaverou> not sure if nested hierarchies are possible
  472. # [22:23] <nimbu> no idea.
  473. # [22:23] <nimbu> MAKE IT HAPPEN PLINSS
  474. # [22:24] <nimbu> DO YOUR MAGICC
  475. # [22:24] <nimbu> or fantasai if fantasai has the sekrit keys to the dev.csswg.org
  476. # [22:24] <nimbu> i meann dev.w3.org
  477. # [22:24] <nimbu> i assumed it was peter. or maybe it is Bert
  478. # [22:25] <plinss> nimbu: it's not so much about what's on dev.w3.org, it's what's on w3.org/TR/ that matters...
  479. # [22:25] <leaverou> nimbu: in the call it was mentioned that changes to shortnames need to be approved by the director
  480. # [22:25] <leaverou> if I heard it correctly at least
  481. # [22:25] <plinss> leaverou: correct
  482. # [22:25] <nimbu> plinss: o how can we change that.
  483. # [22:25] <nimbu> leaverou: o okay who is the director :)
  484. # [22:25] <plinss> we'll still need to leave redirects at the old URLs at the least
  485. # [22:25] <leaverou> Tim Berners-Lee
  486. # [22:25] <nimbu> ya definitely need.
  487. # [22:25] <nimbu> ahaha
  488. # [22:25] <nimbu> HEY TIMBL
  489. # [22:26] <nimbu> ONE SMALL THING.
  490. # [22:26] <leaverou> :P
  491. # [22:26] <plinss> Ralph generally fills that role at publishing telcons
  492. # [22:26] <nimbu> plinss: o who is ralph?
  493. # [22:26] <nimbu> leaverou: can you talk to this ralph person :)))
  494. # [22:26] <leaverou> nimbu: Ralph Swick
  495. # [22:26] <nimbu> ah.
  496. # [22:26] <leaverou> plinss: I assume you mean Ralph Swick, right?
  497. # [22:26] <nimbu> lasted tweeted 9th Feb :(
  498. # [22:27] <plinss> yes, the plan is to have a discussion with Ralph (and/or Tim) once we have a concrete list of the exact changes we want to make
  499. # [22:27] <nimbu> ah thats awesome.
  500. # [22:27] <nimbu> plinss: who is making that list.
  501. # [22:27] <leaverou> nimbu: I didn't even know Ralph tweeted :P
  502. # [22:27] <nimbu> i just did a handy twitter search leaverou :))
  503. # [22:27] <plinss> fantasai is supposed to be setting up a wiki page
  504. # [22:27] <nimbu> ah k.
  505. # [22:28] <nimbu> fantasai: would it be members-only wiki page?
  506. # [22:28] <nimbu> or anybody can edit.
  507. # [22:29] <plinss> I'd presume member only on that page
  508. # [22:29] <nimbu> ah k.
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  510. # [22:29] <nimbu> http://www.w3.org/TR/#tr_CSS seems to have very few names as css3
  511. # [22:29] <nimbu> and all using css3 seem dead or inactive.
  512. # [22:29] <nimbu> except for ruby
  513. # [22:29] <plinss> you're welcome to edit it...
  514. # [22:29] <leaverou_> what did I miss?
  515. # [22:30] <leaverou_> my connection dropped
  516. # [22:30] <leaverou_> (again...)
  517. # [22:30] <nimbu> oh leaverou i was asking who can edit the wiki
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  519. # [22:30] * leaverou_ is now known as leaverou
  520. # [22:31] <plinss> leaverou: I have an IRC bouncer running on csswg.org, would you like an account?
  521. # [22:31] <leaverou> sure, but what's an IRC bouncer? (my ignorance on IRC stuff is showing)
  522. # [22:32] <plinss> it connectes to irc.w3.org as you, then you connect your irc client to it
  523. # [22:33] <leaverou> like a proxy?
  524. # [22:33] <plinss> the advantage is that if you drop off, it stays connected, when you re-connect it plays back what happened while you were gone
  525. # [22:33] <leaverou> oh that's awesome!
  526. # [22:33] <plinss> you can also connect multiple clients and irc.w3.org only sees one, but all your clients get all the messages
  527. # [22:33] <plinss> and it does push notifications to iPhones if your nick is mentioned
  528. # [22:33] <paul_irish> leaverou: i use http://znc.in/ .. it's fantastic.
  529. # [22:33] <leaverou> plinss: wow, that sounds great!
  530. # [22:34] <plinss> paul_irish: that's what's on irc.csswg.org
  531. # [22:34] <nimbu> plinss: it seems to be /TR/ doesnt actually show anything with css3 prefix that is active.
  532. # [22:34] <nimbu> plinss: otoh the shortnames are all very css3 tho.
  533. # [22:35] <paul_irish> plinss: that rocks. :)
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  536. # [23:01] <plinss> nimbu: pretty much everything listed on http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/current-work needs the short name changed...
  537. # [23:03] <nimbu> plinss: ya thats whatt not the names themselves.
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  539. # [23:03] <nimbu> i suppose this would mean it would also change on dev.w3.org then
  540. # [23:04] <plinss> yes
  541. # [23:04] <nimbu> so would fantasai be making a wiki page of all the short names that needs to be changed?
  542. # [23:04] <plinss> after /tr is changed
  543. # [23:04] <nimbu> nice.
  544. # [23:04] <nimbu> I WILL BUG YOU FANTASAI
  545. # [23:04] <plinss> I think she's just going to setup the page, it's up to everyone to fill it in
  546. # [23:05] <nimbu> o okay.
  547. # [23:05] <nimbu> i will be happy to add asap.
  548. # [23:26] * Quits: drublic (drublic@93.132.225.24) (Client exited)
  549. # [23:30] * fantasai waves
  550. # [23:34] <nimbu> hi fantasai!!!
  551. # [23:34] <fantasai> hi nimbu!
  552. # [23:37] <nimbu> fantasai: plinss was saying you were gonna create that page so we can kill css3 forever.
  553. # [23:37] <fantasai> umm, yeah
  554. # [23:37] <nimbu> with the benevolent approval of TimBL
  555. # [23:37] <nimbu> LETS DO IT
  556. # [23:37] <fantasai> working on it
  557. # [23:37] <fantasai> :)
  558. # [23:38] <nimbu> k can do.
  559. # [23:38] <nimbu> also i will be at TPACCC
  560. # [23:38] <nimbu> (mostly)
  561. # [23:39] <fantasai> okay :)
  562. # [23:41] * Joins: nimbu1 (Adium@192.150.10.201)
  563. # [23:41] * Quits: nimbu (Adium@192.150.10.201) (Connection reset by peer)
  564. # [23:41] * Quits: nimbu1 (Adium@192.150.10.201) (Quit: Leaving.)
  565. # [23:43] * Joins: nimbu (Adium@192.150.10.201)
  566. # [23:48] * Quits: nimbu (Adium@192.150.10.201) (Quit: Leaving.)
  567. # [23:49] * Quits: lgombos (Laszlo@24.147.191.33) (Ping timeout)
  568. # [23:54] * Joins: nimbu (Adium@192.150.10.201)
  569. # [23:56] * Quits: nimbu (Adium@192.150.10.201) (Quit: Leaving.)
  570. # Session Close: Thu Sep 06 00:00:01 2012

The end :)