/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2012-12-19 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Dec 19 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #css
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  68. # [17:33] <plinss> rrsagent, make logs public
  69. # [17:33] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, plinss
  70. # [17:33] <plinss> zakim, this wiil be style
  71. # [17:33] <Zakim> I don't understand 'this wiil be style', plinss
  72. # [17:34] <plinss> zakim, this will be style
  73. # [17:34] <Zakim> ok, plinss; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 29 minutes
  74. # [17:59] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
  75. # [17:59] <Zakim> +plinss
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  84. # [18:02] <rhauck1> Zakim, aaaa is me
  85. # [18:02] <Zakim> +rhauck1; got it
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  87. # [18:03] <Zakim> +hober
  88. # [18:03] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
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  90. # [18:04] <Zakim> +Stearns
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  92. # [18:04] <JohnJansen> Zakim, Microsoft has JohnJansen
  93. # [18:04] <Zakim> +JohnJansen; got it
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  100. # [18:05] <antonp> Zakim, aabb is me
  101. # [18:05] <Zakim> +antonp; got it
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  104. # [18:06] <Zakim> +Bert
  105. # [18:07] <Zakim> -Stearns
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  107. # [18:07] <Zakim> +Stearns
  108. # [18:08] <Zakim> -Stearns
  109. # [18:08] <stearns> bah
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  113. # [18:09] <plinss> zakim, who is on the phone?
  114. # [18:09] <Zakim> On the phone I see plinss, leif, SimonSapin, rhauck1, hober, [Microsoft], ??P29, SteveZ, smfr, antonp, Bert, Tab_Atkins, David_Baron, [Microsoft.a]
  115. # [18:09] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has JohnJansen
  116. # [18:09] <Zakim> +Stearns
  117. # [18:10] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.aa]
  118. # [18:10] <arronei_> Zakim, microsoft has me
  119. # [18:10] <Zakim> +arronei_; got it
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  122. # [18:10] * dbaron_ Zakim, who is on the phone?
  123. # [18:10] * Zakim sees on the phone: plinss, leif, SimonSapin, rhauck1, hober, [Microsoft], ??P29, SteveZ, smfr, antonp, Bert, Tab_Atkins, David_Baron, [Microsoft.a], Stearns, [Microsoft.aa]
  124. # [18:10] * Zakim [Microsoft] has arronei_
  125. # [18:10] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.aaa]
  126. # [18:11] * dbaron_ is struggling with finding a setup that has both phone and computer network working at once
  127. # [18:11] <Rossen> Zakim, microsoft has me
  128. # [18:11] <Zakim> +Rossen; got it
  129. # [18:11] <leif> ScribeNick: leif
  130. # [18:11] <leif> plinss: agenda dditions? Did get note from sylvaing_away
  131. # [18:11] * Joins: SteveZ_ (~chatzilla@public.cloak)
  132. # [18:11] <leif> dbaron_: Did you see my comments on animations?
  133. # [18:11] <leif> plinss: no
  134. # [18:12] <leif> dbaron_: I replied to the minutes
  135. # [18:12] <Zakim> +??P46
  136. # [18:12] <leif> plinss: If we have time, otherwise defer to next time
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  138. # [18:12] * dbaron_ is now known as dbaron
  139. # [18:12] <Ms2ger> www.w3.org/mid/20121218214248.GA2120@crum.dbaron.org
  140. # [18:12] <leif> … molly has been reminding people to sign up on wiki
  141. # [18:12] <darktears> Zakim, ??P46 is me
  142. # [18:12] <Zakim> +darktears; got it
  143. # [18:12] <dbaron> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Dec/0268.html
  144. # [18:12] <leif> … still probably people missing. Sign up now! Or risk not having hotel
  145. # [18:12] <leif> … She also sent a hotel booking number
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  147. # [18:13] * Quits: SteveZ (~chatzilla@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 60 seconds)
  148. # [18:13] <leif> … Microsoft asked for Rossen to take over editing from Alex and Phil
  149. # [18:13] * SteveZ_ is now known as SteveZ
  150. # [18:13] <leif> … for Grid and Flexbox
  151. # [18:13] <Zakim> -Stearns
  152. # [18:13] <leif> … no objections
  153. # [18:13] * Joins: tmpsantos (~tmpsantos@public.cloak)
  154. # [18:13] <leif> RESOLVED: Rossen new editor of Grid and Flexbox, taking over for Alex and Phil
  155. # [18:14] <leif> Topic: Flexbox
  156. # [18:14] <leif> … kicking a few issues down the curb
  157. # [18:14] <leif> TabAtkins: Still not ready to talk about them
  158. # [18:14] <leif> Rossen: the multiline issue?
  159. # [18:14] <leif> … basically two issues
  160. # [18:14] <leif> … reposted a couple of days ago
  161. # [18:14] <leif> … has to do with what do we consider orthogonal
  162. # [18:15] <leif> … Will vertical writing mode treat flexobx as vertical
  163. # [18:15] <dbaron> are we now discussing the issue that TabAtkins said he wasn't ready to discuss?
  164. # [18:15] <TabAtkins> Yes.
  165. # [18:16] <Zakim> +Stearns
  166. # [18:16] <leif> … I don't see why we shouldn't allow multicol with a horizontal writing mode behave like a vertical writing with flex-flow: row
  167. # [18:17] <leif> TabAtkins: This is very similar to something in multicol, we were able to come up with something that often gives ok results
  168. # [18:17] <leif> … willing to look into somethign similar here
  169. # [18:17] <leif> Rossen: Are you talking about the algorithm you gave to Elika to resolve auto-width columns
  170. # [18:18] <leif> TabAtkins: No, something recent a mozilla dev brought up to make multicol and flexbox work consistently
  171. # [18:18] <dbaron> (Daniel Holbert)
  172. # [18:18] <SimonSapin> leif: is your mike close to your keyboard?
  173. # [18:19] <leif> … We worked on the multicol sizing algorithm so would respond better to wrapping in a flexbox, could do something similar for flexbox in flexbox
  174. # [18:19] * leaverou is now known as leaverou_away
  175. # [18:19] <leif> … current naive solution doesn't always give good results
  176. # [18:19] <leif> … not ready to discuss just yet
  177. # [18:19] <leif> … Just need time and energy to think about this
  178. # [18:19] <Rossen> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?saved=2022
  179. # [18:19] <leif> Rossen: I can give the test case
  180. # [18:19] <leif> plinss: Defer then
  181. # [18:19] * leif SimonSapin fixed now :)
  182. # [18:20] <SimonSapin> leif: great :)
  183. # [18:20] <leif> Topic: Publish update to csc-cascade
  184. # [18:20] <leif> TabAtkins: See summary e-mail
  185. # [18:20] <TabAtkins> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2012OctDec/0315.html
  186. # [18:20] <leif> dbaron: Raised a bunch of issues yesterady
  187. # [18:20] <leif> … Might be worth getting it a little more stable
  188. # [18:20] <leif> TabAtkins: Can we not just address them quickly in LC?
  189. # [18:20] <leif> dbaron: We should be mostly lalright
  190. # [18:21] <leif> … In your reply you said that scoping for !important and scope goes backwards through the scopes rather than forward
  191. # [18:21] <leif> … that seems backwards to me, and I didn't see it in the spec
  192. # [18:21] <leif> TabAtkins: In the paragraph before we talk about style attr, to match the behavior of non-!important origins go ua-author rather than author-ua
  193. # [18:22] <leif> … Scoping is kind of like nested origin, so should probably do the same thing
  194. # [18:22] <leif> … Should override any contained scope
  195. # [18:22] <leif> dbaron: Not sure that the rationale for the backwards thing for ua-user-author still holds
  196. # [18:22] * sylvaing Rossen suggests y-all as a better name for the all property...
  197. # [18:23] <leif> TabAtkins: I am surprised by that position, but not saying it's wrong.
  198. # [18:23] <leif> plinss: But is there an objection to publishing?
  199. # [18:23] <leif> TabAtkins: Sorry, didn't mean LC
  200. # [18:24] <leif> dbaron: I'm ok with publsihing as long as we note the defaults thing as an issue
  201. # [18:24] <leif> … and maybe note the scope thing as an issue
  202. # [18:24] <leif> TabAtkins: Fine with that
  203. # [18:24] <leif> … just want to get a new WD out, last is 7 years old
  204. # [18:24] <leif> … people talk about TR version
  205. # [18:24] <dbaron> default issue: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Dec/0270.html
  206. # [18:24] <leif> RESOLVED: Publish Cascade WD with issues dbaron mentioned (scoping and defaults)
  207. # [18:25] <leif> Topic: Conditional syntax
  208. # [18:25] <plinss> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Dec/0100.html
  209. # [18:25] <dbaron> the scoping issue is the issue of whether !important should go in reverse for scopes
  210. # [18:25] <plinss> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Dec/0142.html
  211. # [18:25] <leif> dbaron: Before we get into it, we should discuss whether we want to make the change
  212. # [18:25] <leif> …that's more important
  213. # [18:26] <leif> TabAtkins: neutral. Understand the authoring hazards. But should make the change not just for @supports, but other boolean things, like MQ
  214. # [18:26] <leif> … a global change
  215. # [18:26] <leif> dbaron: I'm inclined to defer, because I haven't thought about the details
  216. # [18:26] <leif> SimonSapin: We should also fix MQ, but not sure about compat
  217. # [18:26] <leif> dbaron: Shouldn't be compat problem
  218. # [18:26] <leif> … unless there's broken content out there that doesn't work now
  219. # [18:27] <leif> … but pretty rare
  220. # [18:27] <leif> … Worry is it might be bigger than just those two, but probably not
  221. # [18:27] <leif> SimonSapin: I would prefer making this change everywhere
  222. # [18:27] <leif> … but another solution is to require spaces inthe grammar
  223. # [18:28] <leif> plinss: Any thoughts?
  224. # [18:28] <leif> TabAtkins [too fast]
  225. # [18:28] <leif> TabAtkins: Is SimonSapin's intent to avoid people typing spaces wrong from reading the spec?
  226. # [18:29] <leif> dbaron: When suggesting requiring spaces, I meant also requiring a space on both sides of "and' and 'or'
  227. # [18:29] <leif> SimonSapin: Consistency is good
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  229. # [18:29] <leif> TabAtkins: no problem with it
  230. # [18:30] <leif> dbaron: Preference is requiring spaces after 'not' and on both sides of 'and' and 'or'
  231. # [18:30] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
  232. # [18:30] <dbaron> that's a weak preference, though
  233. # [18:30] <leif> Bert: Agree with dbaron, but no strong opinion
  234. # [18:30] <leif> … yet
  235. # [18:30] * dbaron Zakim, who is noisy?
  236. # [18:30] * Zakim dbaron, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: plinss (8%), SimonSapin (83%), antonp (5%), Tab_Atkins (8%), Bert (7%)
  237. # [18:30] <leif> SimonSapin: Requring spaces is an easy solution, but a better solution is to fix the grammar
  238. # [18:31] <SimonSapin> spaces: easy solution; no spaces: better for authors
  239. # [18:31] <leif> plinss: Requiring spaces allows us to introduce a 'not' function later
  240. # [18:31] <leif> … doesn't require learning the difference between function tokens and other things
  241. # [18:31] <leif> dbaron: Don't want to introduce a not function
  242. # [18:31] <dbaron> ... later that's something different
  243. # [18:31] <leif> plinss: If we never introduce a not function then spacing is optional
  244. # [18:31] <leif> TabAtkins: Not willing to say never introduce not function
  245. # [18:32] * TabAtkins that is the most over-negated sentence I've written for a while.
  246. # [18:32] <leif> sylvaing: Form the calc experience, requiring spaces where people don't expect them is painful
  247. # [18:32] <leif> … they will learn, for sure
  248. # [18:32] <leif> dbaron: Words and symbols are differnt, though
  249. # [18:33] <leif> SimonSapin: Remember that if we require spaces, anything invalid evaluates to false, and can later be negated
  250. # [18:33] * Quits: SteveZ (~chatzilla@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 60 seconds)
  251. # [18:33] <leif> TabAtkins: Caught by the general invalid syntax
  252. # [18:33] <leif> plinss: Consensus?
  253. # [18:33] <leif> RESOLVED: Spaces not optional in @supports
  254. # [18:34] * sylvaing ...spaces required but tabs optional? <ducks>
  255. # [18:34] <leif> dbaron: I'll figure the wording out. It's an editorial question
  256. # [18:34] <leif> Topic: Text-decoration LC
  257. # [18:34] <SimonSapin> S* → S+ ?
  258. # [18:34] <dbaron> SimonSapin, yeah, mostly, but there might need to be prose too... I'll need to check
  259. # [18:34] <leif> plinss: fantasai will write into
  260. # [18:35] <Zakim> -SteveZ
  261. # [18:35] <leif> SteveZ: No objection, but strange to LC and document that's not done yet
  262. # [18:35] <leif> plinss: Just has to write intro, wants resolution early because of holidays
  263. # [18:35] <leif> SteveZ probably accidentally disconnected
  264. # [18:35] <Zakim> +SteveZ
  265. # [18:36] * Quits: tmpsantos (~tmpsantos@public.cloak) ("Leaving")
  266. # [18:36] <leif> SteveZ: I understand, but is it really not going to get published
  267. # [18:36] <leif> plinss: dunno, but Bert will be away
  268. # [18:36] <leif> Bert: Will be away until 8 Jan
  269. # [18:37] <leif> TabAtkins: fantasai will be back at the end of the week, bu tno meeting for 2 weeks
  270. # [18:37] <leif> RESOLVED: Publish css3-cascade LC with intro from fantasai
  271. # [18:37] <leif> Topic: EPUB liaison
  272. # [18:37] <stearns> s/cascade/text-decoration/
  273. # [18:38] <leif> plinss: glazou is willing to
  274. # [18:38] <leif> sylvaing: He seems to be in a good spot to do that
  275. # [18:38] <leif> RESOLVED: glazou liaison to EPUB
  276. # [18:38] <sylvaing> ..because he implements EPUB
  277. # [18:38] <leif> plinss: I'm trying to get HP to join
  278. # [18:38] <leif> Topic: CSS3 Color Errata
  279. # [18:39] <leif> dbaron: Just added a test, needs review
  280. # [18:39] <leif> … added errata in ED
  281. # [18:39] <leif> TabAtkins: Thanks, we've been waiting for that
  282. # [18:39] <Zakim> -darktears
  283. # [18:39] <leif> dbaron: Plan to raise an issue on the errata, but that's for later
  284. # [18:40] <leif> Topic: Background-clip and origin order on shorthand
  285. # [18:40] * Zakim leif, you typed too many words without commas; I suspect you forgot to start with 'to ...'
  286. # [18:40] <Zakim> +??P5
  287. # [18:40] <darktears> Zakim: ??P5 is me
  288. # [18:40] * TabAtkins leif, you can ignore Zakim. That's a spurious message.
  289. # [18:40] <leif> plinss: krit brought it up, but not here today
  290. # [18:40] <leif> … anyone else can talk on this?
  291. # [18:40] <darktears> Zakim, ??P5 is me
  292. # [18:40] <Zakim> +darktears; got it
  293. # [18:40] * leif TabAtkins thanks, I was worried
  294. # [18:40] <leif> plinss: Defer this one
  295. # [18:41] * dbaron Zakim, who is on the phone?
  296. # [18:41] * Zakim sees on the phone: plinss, leif, SimonSapin, rhauck1, hober, [Microsoft], ??P29, smfr, antonp, Bert, Tab_Atkins, David_Baron, [Microsoft.a], [Microsoft.aa], [Microsoft.aaa],
  297. # [18:41] * Zakim ... Stearns, SteveZ, darktears
  298. # [18:41] * Zakim [Microsoft] has Rossen
  299. # [18:41] * darktears muted myself
  300. # [18:41] <leif> Topic: Should deal with case-sensitivity, fantasai and dbaron and have comments
  301. # [18:41] <leif> oops
  302. # [18:42] <leif> topic: Case insensitivity
  303. # [18:42] <leif> TabAtkins: 3 specs waiting for that, and fantasai and dbaron have comments
  304. # [18:42] <dbaron> the most recent thread was http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Dec/thread.html#msg239
  305. # [18:43] <Zakim> -Stearns
  306. # [18:43] <leif> dbaron: Can you state the issue?
  307. # [18:43] <leif> TabAtkins: trying to, but can't right now
  308. # [18:43] <leif> …let's do animations
  309. # [18:43] <leif> Topic: Animations
  310. # [18:43] <plinss> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Dec/0268.html
  311. # [18:43] <Zakim> +Stearns
  312. # [18:43] <leif> dbaron: In some cases I had trouble understanding what the resolution was
  313. # [18:44] * Joins: florian (~florian@public.cloak)
  314. # [18:44] <Ms2ger> s/Publish css3-cascade LC with intro from fantasai/Publish css-text-decor-3 LC with intro from fantasai/
  315. # [18:44] <leif> … but also some other things should be decided
  316. # [18:44] <Zakim> -Stearns
  317. # [18:44] <Zakim> +??P9
  318. # [18:44] <leif> … Simplest thing is animation-play-state not being in the shorthand
  319. # [18:44] * Zakim leif, you typed too many words without commas; I suspect you forgot to start with 'to ...'
  320. # [18:44] <leif> … on purpose
  321. # [18:44] <florian> Zakim, I am ??P9
  322. # [18:44] <Zakim> +florian; got it
  323. # [18:44] <leif> … Does that mean not specifiable in the shorthand, but it doesn't reset it, or does the shorthand reset it?
  324. # [18:44] <leif> TabAtkins: I believe the former
  325. # [18:44] <dbaron> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/showbug.cgi?id=14787
  326. # [18:45] * florian is sorry for being late, scheduling with small children is hard.
  327. # [18:45] <leif> … not specifiable, BUT reset by shorthand
  328. # [18:45] * Zakim leif, you typed too many words without commas; I suspect you forgot to start with 'to ...'
  329. # [18:45] <leif> dbaron: sylvaing and SimonSapin agree?
  330. # [18:45] <dbaron> s/SimonSapin/smfr/
  331. # [18:46] <leif> smfr: I think the example of the shorthand, not including the property, could be surprising
  332. # [18:46] <leif> dbaron: There are examples of that
  333. # [18:46] <leif> … background does it
  334. # [18:46] <leif> … font
  335. # [18:46] <dbaron> border resets border-image
  336. # [18:46] <leif> TabAtkins: I think so, unless we made it more complicated
  337. # [18:47] <leif> plinss: Not an unreasonable behavior, there's precedent
  338. # [18:47] <Zakim> +Stearns
  339. # [18:47] <leif> … using a shorthand should reset everything in that type of property
  340. # [18:47] <leif> smfr: Since this is fairly complicated stuff [missed]
  341. # [18:47] <leif> … Since a new spec, we should go for least surprise
  342. # [18:47] <leif> … not including play-state inthe shorthand
  343. # [18:47] * Zakim leif, you typed too many words without commas; I suspect you forgot to start with 'to ...'
  344. # [18:48] <leif> dbaron: You're taking back last week's resolution
  345. # [18:48] <leif> smfr: yeah, we didn't consider the resettiong problem
  346. # [18:48] <leif> plinss: What was the problem of having it in the shorthand?
  347. # [18:48] <leif> TabAtkins: Ambiguaity with animation-name
  348. # [18:48] <leif> dbaron: like everything!
  349. # [18:48] <leif> TabAtkins: How are we not ambigiuos with the others?
  350. # [18:48] <leif> dbaron: Lots of fun, spec doens't get into it, requires a lot of caer with serialization and parsing
  351. # [18:48] <leif> … thread 6 months ago
  352. # [18:49] <leif> TabAtkins: I see, There's a note in here, probably inpromprerly worded
  353. # [18:49] <leif> … The first ident that appears is the animation-name
  354. # [18:49] <leif> dbaron: wait, that's the opposite of what i expect
  355. # [18:49] * leaverou_away is now known as leaverou
  356. # [18:49] <leif> TabAtkins: The first time value is duration, the second delay
  357. # [18:49] <leif> … [missed]
  358. # [18:50] <leif> dbaron: Would not be web-compatible, I suspect
  359. # [18:50] <leif> TabAtkins: in that case, spec is underdefined
  360. # [18:50] <leif> … issue 3 about this
  361. # [18:50] <leif> dbaron: Let's get back to earlier issue
  362. # [18:50] * leaverou is now known as leaverou_away
  363. # [18:50] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
  364. # [18:50] <leif> … smfr says we should scratch last week's resolution
  365. # [18:50] <Zakim> -SimonSapin
  366. # [18:50] <tantek> Zakim, IPcaller is tantek
  367. # [18:50] <Zakim> +tantek; got it
  368. # [18:51] <tantek> Zakim, mute tantek
  369. # [18:51] <Zakim> tantek should now be muted
  370. # [18:51] <leif> TabAtkins: agrees
  371. # [18:51] <leif> dbaron: I'm fine with that.
  372. # [18:51] <leif> … Given the 3 options, fine with 2 options where shorthand reset play-state
  373. # [18:51] <leif> sylvaing: I think it's the more consistent option
  374. # [18:51] <leif> … but trying to think of compat issues
  375. # [18:51] <leif> dbaron: Gecko always implemented it
  376. # [18:52] <leif> … have not heard of ocmpat issues
  377. # [18:52] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@public.cloak)
  378. # [18:52] <leif> sylvaing: But it's only working there
  379. # [18:52] * Quits: drublic_ (~drublic@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 60 seconds)
  380. # [18:52] <leif> … now if we chang ethe spec and other browsers support it…
  381. # [18:52] <leif> smfr: I don't thiink including play-stae in the shorthand would case WebKit problems, becuase prefixed
  382. # [18:53] <leif> florian: still large usage of unprefixed version
  383. # [18:53] * leif florian is very hard to hear
  384. # [18:53] <leif> dbaron: Take back comment about Gecko… i followed the spec
  385. # [18:53] * dbaron Zakim, who is noisy?
  386. # [18:53] * florian if it just got better, it was me
  387. # [18:53] * Zakim dbaron, listening for 13 seconds I heard sound from the following: plinss (11%), [Microsoft.aaa] (65%), antonp (3%), Tab_Atkins (4%)
  388. # [18:54] <leif> sylvaing: In retrospect that should have been the definition, but with unprefixing, awkward to change
  389. # [18:54] <leif> smfr: not play-ate used much in the wild
  390. # [18:54] <leif> sylvaing: Our browser sticks around a bit longer than the average
  391. # [18:54] <leif> … it will be invalid in IE 10, but not a huge risk at this stage
  392. # [18:54] <leif> s/not play-ate/play-state is not/
  393. # [18:55] <leif> … seems silly to not have it there
  394. # [18:55] <leif> sylvaing: Will open a bug and fix the spec
  395. # [18:55] <leif> RESOLVED: Put play-state back into the animation shorthand
  396. # [18:55] * Zakim leif, you typed too many words without commas; I suspect you forgot to start with 'to ...'
  397. # [18:55] * Quits: SimonSapin (~simon@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 60 seconds)
  398. # [18:56] <leif> dbaron: There was a reoslution about animation starting when not display: none
  399. # [18:56] <leif> … two problems:
  400. # [18:56] <leif> … Also applies to ancestor with dipslay: none
  401. # [18:56] <leif> TabAtkins: animation of child starts when ancetsor gets box
  402. # [18:56] <leif> sylvaing: I'll have to check what I put in there.
  403. # [18:56] * Joins: rhauck (~Adium@public.cloak)
  404. # [18:56] <leif> dbaron: I was just reading minutes, not the spec, so may be in there
  405. # [18:57] <leif> sylvaing reads from spec
  406. # [18:57] <leif> … should cover what dbaron said
  407. # [18:57] <leif> dbaron: Spec is righ5
  408. # [18:57] <leif> s/righ5/right
  409. # [18:57] <florian> s/.../florian/
  410. # [18:57] <leif> dbaron: Prose answered both of my issues
  411. # [18:57] <leif> … third issue is hardest
  412. # [18:58] <leif> … A resolution says animations only run with one at least one valid keyframe
  413. # [18:58] <leif> … It would make sense to solve a different issue first
  414. # [18:58] <leif> … and make this issue's solution match that one
  415. # [18:58] <leif> … And that is what happens when some values in keyframes cannot be interpolated
  416. # [18:58] <leif> TabAtkins: Doesn't exist anymore
  417. # [18:58] <leif> … all values are interpolatable
  418. # [18:58] <leif> dbaron: Also in level 3?
  419. # [18:59] <leif> TabAtkins: Dunno, thought to do it quickly
  420. # [18:59] <leif> dbaron: Even so, does a valid keyframe, mean something with a valid keyframe selector, or that and a property inside
  421. # [18:59] <leif> ?
  422. # [18:59] <leif> sylvaing: Could be empty
  423. # [18:59] <leif> dbaron: Reason I think it should have property is that keyframes get examine seapartatly for any property
  424. # [19:00] <leif> … 25% keyframe meniotned top, and 100% mentions left
  425. # [19:00] <leif> … you animate [missed]
  426. # [19:00] <leif> … you animate props, and those props may be present in keyframes
  427. # [19:00] <leif> … Depends on whether animation is animating any props.
  428. # [19:01] <TabAtkins> @keyframes { 50% {} }
  429. # [19:01] <leif> TabAtkins summarizes dbaron: keyframes rule iwth valid keyframes but no property in it
  430. # [19:01] <dbaron> sorry, my parents don't actually have any non-cordless phones in the house
  431. # [19:01] <leif> if you have that, would it be invalid
  432. # [19:02] <TabAtkins> @keyframes foo { 50% {} }
  433. # [19:02] <leif> sylvaing: If you mean does it fire animation if there's a duration on it
  434. # [19:02] <leif> … we don't ignore it, it's valid
  435. # [19:02] <leif> … even if nothing moves, i expect my events to fire
  436. # [19:02] <leif> … even if you have props in there
  437. # [19:03] <TabAtkins> @keyframes foo {}
  438. # [19:03] <leif> TabAtkins: How does that jive with…
  439. # [19:03] <leif> … not firing events
  440. # [19:03] <leif> ?
  441. # [19:03] <leif> … this and the prev one looks the same to me.
  442. # [19:03] <leif> sylvaing: good point
  443. # [19:03] <leif> … we can't just look at the keyframes
  444. # [19:03] * Quits: shepazu (schepers@public.cloak)
  445. # [19:03] <leif> TabAtkins: Are you objecting to what we agreed last week?
  446. # [19:03] <leif> sylvaing: yes
  447. # [19:03] <leif> … regardless of duration, if no props require animation, should we fire
  448. # [19:04] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  449. # [19:04] * Quits: JohnJansen (~JohnJansen@public.irc.w3.org) ("Page closed")
  450. # [19:04] <leif> … My question is more: does animation run if it has duration or has property in it
  451. # [19:04] <leif> TabAtkins: Last week we agreed "prop"
  452. # [19:04] <leif> sylvaing: we can do the same here
  453. # [19:04] <tantek> is there new information?
  454. # [19:04] <leif> TabAtkins: Yes, for the same reason as last week
  455. # [19:04] <leif> sylvaing: Not sure last week's was valid
  456. # [19:05] * Joins: shepazu (schepers@public.cloak)
  457. # [19:05] <leif> florian: So what does it mean for dbaron's issus?
  458. # [19:05] <leif> dbaron: This is the primary issue
  459. # [19:06] <leif> smfr: keyframe sets without properties inside, never seen that in the wild
  460. # [19:06] <leif> TabAtkins: Motivation seems to be filling with script
  461. # [19:06] <leif> florian: [can't hear]
  462. # [19:07] <leif> … a UC would be an online animation editor
  463. # [19:07] <leif> … starts an animation in a loop
  464. # [19:07] <Zakim> -rhauck1
  465. # [19:07] <leif> … wants it to run even if it doesn't do anything
  466. # [19:07] <leif> … before you start adding stuff in it, want events
  467. # [19:07] <leif> … So may be worth firing events
  468. # [19:08] <leif> … duration could be enough
  469. # [19:08] * dbaron thinks we're going to have to continue this another time (and is also surprised that the group managed to resolve on this last week given the divergent opinions)
  470. # [19:08] <leif> plinss: Not sure we have a solid answer
  471. # [19:08] <leif> … next year?
  472. # [19:08] <leif> dbaron: Probably best
  473. # [19:08] * sylvaing well we resolved on animation-play-state not being in the shorthand last week too :)
  474. # [19:08] <tantek> Zakim, unmute tantek
  475. # [19:08] <Zakim> tantek should no longer be muted
  476. # [19:08] <leif> plinss: Enjoy your time off
  477. # [19:08] <Zakim> -smfr
  478. # [19:08] <Zakim> -antonp
  479. # [19:08] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.aa]
  480. # [19:08] <Zakim> -David_Baron
  481. # [19:08] <Zakim> -hober
  482. # [19:08] <Zakim> -Tab_Atkins
  483. # [19:08] <Zakim> -Bert
  484. # [19:08] <Zakim> -darktears
  485. # [19:08] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
  486. # [19:08] * Quits: emalasky (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
  487. # [19:08] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.aaa]
  488. # [19:08] <Zakim> -florian
  489. # [19:09] <Zakim> -Stearns
  490. # [19:09] <Zakim> -plinss
  491. # [19:09] <Zakim> -??P29
  492. # [19:09] <Zakim> -tantek
  493. # [19:09] <leif> plinss, should I do something in particular now?
  494. # [19:09] <leif> as scribe, I mean
  495. # [19:09] * Parts: smfr (~smfr@public.cloak) (smfr)
  496. # [19:09] <Zakim> -leif
  497. # [19:09] <Zakim> -SteveZ
  498. # [19:09] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  499. # [19:09] <Zakim> Attendees were plinss, leif, SimonSapin, +1.415.615.aaaa, rhauck1, hober, Stearns, JohnJansen, SteveZ, smfr, +34.97.362.aabb, antonp, Bert, Tab_Atkins, David_Baron, [Microsoft],
  500. # [19:09] <Zakim> ... arronei_, Rossen, darktears, florian, tantek
  501. # [19:10] <Ms2ger> RRSAgent, generate minutes
  502. # [19:10] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/19-css-minutes.html Ms2ger
  503. # [19:11] <plinss> leif: Elika generally takes care of cleaning up and publishing the minutes, feel free to do some cleanup on the log if you want
  504. # [19:11] <plinss> and send it to her
  505. # [19:11] <leif> ok, thanks plinss and Ms2ger
  506. # [19:11] <leif> Happy holidays!
  507. # [19:11] <Ms2ger> Np
  508. # [19:11] <Ms2ger> And the same to you
  509. # [19:12] * Quits: Rossen (~Rossen@public.cloak) ("")
  510. # [19:13] * Quits: florian (~florian@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 60 seconds)
  511. # [19:13] <TabAtkins> leif: If you do so, the important things are just to pull the topics/summaries and resolutions to the front of the email. Elika does more extensive typo-fixing and reformatting, even rearranging lines in conversations to make them make more sense, but that's not strictly necessary.
  512. # [19:14] * Joins: SimonSapin (~simon@public.cloak)
  513. # [19:15] <leif> TabAtkins: thanks. We'll see what I get around to before leaving on holiday :)
  514. # [19:15] <TabAtkins> k, cool. ^_^
  515. # [19:15] <leif> TabAtkins: Happy holidays to you too!
  516. # [19:16] * Quits: leif (~leif@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
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  521. # [20:18] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
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  534. # [23:03] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  535. # [23:03] * Parts: Zakim (zakim@public.cloak) (Zakim)
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  539. # [23:47] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak) ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
  540. # Session Close: Thu Dec 20 00:00:00 2012

The end :)