/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2013-02-22 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Feb 22 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #css
  3. # [00:01] * fantasai not sure, but Anton would know
  4. # [00:01] <SimonSapin> fantasai: what does abspos do with pages?
  5. # [00:01] <fantasai> Breaks across them
  6. # [00:01] <fantasai> It's effectively another layout mode that sits on top of the normal flow
  7. # [00:01] <SimonSapin> each fragment has its own containing block of potentially different size?
  8. # [00:01] <fantasai> Imagine placing a grid element inside a zero-height block at the top of the document
  9. # [00:01] <fantasai> Should be roughly the same idea
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  11. # [00:02] <fantasai> SimonSapin: Dont' see why not
  12. # [00:02] <fantasai> abspos is kindof putting things into an implied formatting context that overlaps each abspos containing block...
  13. # [00:03] <SimonSapin> so `top: 5cm` when the containing block element is multi-page is from the top of the first fragment, or that of the current page?
  14. # [00:04] <fantasai> from the top of the first fragment
  15. # [00:04] <SimonSapin> is any of that specified?
  16. # [00:06] <fantasai> I feel like this is the obvious thing to do
  17. # [00:06] <fantasai> but anyway http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-break/#transforms
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  20. # [00:18] <tantek> so… touch-action
  21. # [00:18] <tantek> just being discussed at #w3conf
  22. # [00:18] <tantek> as in, on stage
  23. # [00:19] <tantek> someone want to point me to a summary of the CSSWG position on this?
  24. # [00:20] * tantek is trying to sift through various email deltas to see what's the current status
  25. # [00:21] <tantek> TabAtkins_ looks like touch-action is IE only currently. Is this an urgent property that is being actively implemented (thus do another LCWD of CSS3-UI) or is CSS4-UI ok?
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  27. # [00:22] <fantasai> we had a discussion on it recently
  28. # [00:23] * fantasai looks for the minutes
  29. # [00:23] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Jan/0220.html
  30. # [00:23] <fantasai> tantek: ^
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  35. # [00:42] <SimonSapin> fantasai: what I was getting at is, we don’t need a third variant of ICB
  36. # [00:42] <fantasai> I don't think so
  37. # [00:42] <fantasai> Maybe the concepts are,
  38. # [00:42] <fantasai> "initial containing block" and "initial containing fragment"?
  39. # [00:43] <fantasai> no that's not right...
  40. # [00:45] <SimonSapin> how about: css3-page "The ICB is the content edge of the content edge of the current page. Its size can be different is pages of the same document."
  41. # [00:45] <SimonSapin> css3-values: "The viewport-percentage lengths are relative to the ICB. In paged media only the ICB of the first page is considered, even on subsequent pages."
  42. # [00:46] <SimonSapin> in* pages of the same document
  43. # [00:46] <fantasai> seems ok at first glance
  44. # [00:47] <SimonSapin> this is technically a change in css3-page, which is why I wanted to know about other things depending on "ICB"
  45. # [00:48] <SimonSapin> we already have a resolution for the part in css3-values. Do we need one for css3-page?
  46. # [00:48] <fantasai> Don't think so
  47. # [00:48] <fantasai> It's just clarifying edits..
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  51. # [00:52] <SimonSapin> well, page has "The edges of the page area on the first page establish the rectangle that is the initial containing block of the document." s/first page/current page/ is a change
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  59. # [01:36] <tantek> fantasai - ah, I remember that telcon! Now I understand better what we were discussing :)
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  61. # [01:42] <tantek> ok, given the thrash on "touch-action" I'm thinking it's more of a CSS4-UI feature than CSS3-UI shoe-in.
  62. # [01:42] <hober> tantek: yes
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  69. # [01:52] <tantek> hober, fantasai, TabAtkins_: documented state of "touch-action" http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css4-ui#touch-action
  70. # [01:57] <tantek> fantasai - re: "path down is /WWW/Style/Group" - I got "Bad root /WWW/Style/Group" when trying that.
  71. # [01:57] <tantek> e.g. when trying cvs -d :ext:Tantekelik@cvs.w3.org:/WWW/Style/Group co Style-Group
  72. # [01:58] <tantek> also got "Bad root" when trying cvs -d :ext:Tantekelik@cvs.w3.org:/w3ccvs/WWW/Style/Group co Style-Group
  73. # [01:58] <tantek> do you know the cvs -d command to actually get that repository?
  74. # [01:58] <tantek> fantasai ^
  75. # [01:59] <tantek> (will be back in a bit and check the archives)
  76. # [01:59] <fantasai> I think maybe you want cvs -d username@cvs.w3.org/:/w3ccvs co /WWW/Style/Group
  77. # [01:59] <fantasai> er
  78. # [01:59] <fantasai> without the extra slash before :
  79. # [01:59] <fantasai> -d is the contents of $CVSROOT
  80. # [02:00] <fantasai> so either you set $CVSROOT or you provide -d
  81. # [02:00] <fantasai> not both
  82. # [02:00] <fantasai> and they would be the same things.
  83. # [02:00] <fantasai> the co command takes the directory to checkout, which is /WWW/Style/Group
  84. # [02:01] <tantek> ah
  85. # [02:03] <tantek> ok, tried cvs -d Tantekelik@cvs.w3.org:/w3ccvs co /WWW/Style/Group
  86. # [02:03] <tantek> and got
  87. # [02:03] <tantek> cvs [server aborted]: Absolute module reference invalid: `/WWW/Style/Group'
  88. # [02:03] <tantek> I don't have a $CVSROOT set
  89. # [02:04] <fantasai> cvs -d fantasai@cvs.w3.org:/w3ccvs co WWW/Style/Group
  90. # [02:04] <fantasai> That works for me
  91. # [02:04] <tantek> ah, one less /
  92. # [02:04] <fantasai> sorry, Tantek
  93. # [02:04] <fantasai> it's been awhile :)
  94. # [02:04] <tantek> wow look at athat
  95. # [02:04] <tantek> *that
  96. # [02:05] * tantek wonders how many megabytes I'm checking out over the #w3conf network ;)
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  98. # [02:07] <fantasai> Not too many. The CSS2.1 test suite is not loaded under that directory. ;)
  99. # [02:07] <tantek> and it's now stuck on cvs checkout: Updating WWW/Style/Group/2002
  100. # [02:07] <fantasai> CVS gets stuck a lot...
  101. # [02:07] <fantasai> and that repository is very old
  102. # [02:08] * tantek hopes he didn't break anything.
  103. # [02:08] * tantek wonders if he should ctrl-c and retry with a cvs up -d
  104. # [02:09] <tantek> oh wait - there it goes again
  105. # [02:09] <fantasai> heh
  106. # [02:09] <fantasai> yeah, just wait. If it times out and dies, you can try again.
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  109. # [02:21] <tantek> looks like it finished
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  111. # [02:28] <tantek> fantasai - where is the Overview.src.html for css-print? All I see is Overview.html in WWW/Style/Group/css-print ?
  112. # [02:28] <fantasai> there isn't one
  113. # [02:28] <fantasai> and I didn't think it worth my time to make one
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  115. # [02:35] <tantek> ah right, so just edit Overview.html manually then - wow, ok.
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  118. # [02:46] <tantek> and done.
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  120. # [03:11] * fantasai ponders ruby box models
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  315. # [15:18] <glazou> alexmog, ping
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  331. # [18:33] <hober> is there a way to size an element to the clipped area of its parent?
  332. # [18:33] <hober> i imagine there is but it's just not coming to mind
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  362. # [21:54] <dbaron> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Feb/0385.html
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  364. # [21:55] <dbaron> sylvaing_away, we're gathered to talk about animations now
  365. # [21:55] <smfr> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=15242
  366. # [21:55] <dbaron> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Feb/0385.html
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  368. # [21:59] <hober> dbaron writes CSS on the whiteboard in cursive
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  373. # [22:12] <hober> Pseudo-ScribeNick: hober
  374. # [22:12] <hober> dino: is the animation still running in the background but just not applying
  375. # [22:12] <hober> dbaron smfr: yes
  376. # [22:12] * hober oh fuck me scribing this will be impossible
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  379. # [22:22] * sylvaing dbaron's shirt pattern plays major havoc with live video...
  380. # [22:26] <dbaron> I think we mostly agree that unanimated -> animated shouldn't have a transition mess with the animated state afterwards
  381. # [22:26] <dbaron> and from that I also think that animated -> unanimated shouldn't transition (symmetry)
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  384. # [22:31] * sylvaing we had phone and skype on same device; can dean unmute skype? sound was better there...
  385. # [22:32] <dbaron> sylvaing, we've unmuted skype, but can't hear you
  386. # [22:32] <sylvaing> we can hear you great
  387. # [22:32] <smfr> we can't hear yoiu
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  389. # [22:34] <hober> dbaron: We want transitions to trigger only when the from and to val[dean gives up typing]
  390. # [22:34] <dbaron> we seem to like the model that we don't do transitions if either the to-value or the from-value is from an animation (CSS or SMIL)
  391. # [22:35] <dbaron> this might get messy when inheritance gets into the mix
  392. # [22:37] <hober> parent transitions on font-size, child width is set in ems and has a transition as well
  393. # [22:37] <hober> behavior fell out of the impls, is different
  394. # [22:38] <hober> grandparent has color, child and grandchild both have transitions on volor
  395. # [22:38] <hober> *color
  396. # [22:39] <dbaron> given a > b > c (in tree), a { color: red} a:hover { color: blue } b { transition: color 2s } c { transition: color 10s }
  397. # [22:39] <dbaron> (or reverse the times)
  398. # [22:41] <dbaron> we're ok if some of these things are crazy, they'd just need to be interoperably crazy
  399. # [22:45] <dbaron> http://dbaron.org/css/test/2009/transitions/transitions-and-inheritance
  400. # [22:47] <smfr> mytestcase: http://smfr.org/misc/inheritedcolor.html
  401. # [22:49] <smfr> dbaron discusses gecko imll with inheritance
  402. # [22:50] <smfr> font-size: 16px -> 12px, and width: 5em to 10em
  403. # [22:51] <smfr> (on child)
  404. # [22:51] <smfr> what width do you transition from?
  405. # [22:51] <smfr> maybe if parent and child both have a transition on the same property, we kick off both transitions
  406. # [22:53] <smfr> dbaron draws: parent { font-size: 16pt; transition: font-size 10s }
  407. # [22:53] <smfr> child { transition: font-size: 2s; }
  408. # [22:53] <smfr> parent:hover { font-size: 20px; }
  409. # [22:53] <smfr> child inherits the font-size change
  410. # [22:53] <smfr> do you want to suppress the transition on the child?
  411. # [22:53] <smfr> is it 10s or 2s?
  412. # [22:54] <smfr> or a weird combined transition
  413. # [22:54] <hober> i think this is http://edward.oconnor.cx/tests/css/tta/1.html
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  416. # [23:04] <dbaron> dean raises issue of what happens when 'inherit' is in a keyframe
  417. # [23:04] <hober> from { color:red } to { color:inherit }
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  419. # [23:10] <dbaron> the 16px -> 20px over 0s-2s and then 16.8px -> 20px from 2s->10s has the advantage that it's explainable/understandable
  420. # [23:11] <dbaron> though it might be nice if the longer transition won
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  422. # [23:14] <smfr> in this case:
  423. # [23:14] <smfr> parent { font-size: 16px -> 12px; }
  424. # [23:14] <smfr> child { width: 15em -> 10em }
  425. # [23:15] <smfr> parent has f-s transition, child has transition on width
  426. # [23:15] <smfr> so child transitions 240px -> 120px wide
  427. # [23:16] <smfr> so pretend the style change happened instantaneously
  428. # [23:16] <smfr> compute all the final states, then transition each
  429. # [23:17] <smfr> ^ over the entire tree
  430. # [23:18] <smfr> problem: if we want to avoid transitions from animating things, how do we do this?
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  438. # [23:50] <dbaron> sylvaing, still there?
  439. # [23:55] <smfr> dbaron: want to do one of the following 2 things
  440. # [23:56] <dbaron> (1) don't start transitions when either the from value or the to value come from animations (which gets hard once we throw in inheritance, 'em' units, etc.)
  441. # [23:57] <dbaron> (2) start the transitions based on the values without animations and just have them overriden (still fire events)
  442. # [23:57] <dbaron> prefer (1) over (2) but not sure how to do it
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  444. # [23:59] <dbaron> we could do some variant of (1) that's mostly like (1) but gets some weird cases wrong but is cheaper/easier to implement... if we can specify exactly which weird cases it gets wrong
  445. # Session Close: Sat Feb 23 00:00:00 2013

The end :)