/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2013-03-13 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Mar 13 00:00:00 2013
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  96. # [16:21] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/03/13-css-irc
  97. # [16:21] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
  98. # [16:21] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 42 minutes
  99. # [16:21] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
  100. # [16:21] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
  101. # [16:23] <SimonSapin> Hi glazou
  102. # [16:23] <glazou> salut SimonSapin
  103. # [16:23] <SimonSapin> does it get better in Paris?
  104. # [16:25] <glazou> yes, finally melting
  105. # [16:25] <glazou> but it's been really a pain
  106. # [16:25] <glazou> yesterday was awful
  107. # [16:25] <glazou> had to leave my car in some random street, driving was far too dangerous
  108. # [16:28] <SimonSapin> Do you know where this is maintained? https://www.w3.org/Style/Group/css3-src/status-ED-CSS.inc
  109. # [16:28] <SimonSapin> And if I can change it
  110. # [16:28] <glazou> no idea, sorry
  111. # [16:29] <glazou> see the hg log ?
  112. # [16:29] <glazou> who did the commits ?
  113. # [16:29] <SimonSapin> I don’t see css3-src at all in the hg repo
  114. # [16:29] <glazou> ah right
  115. # [16:29] <glazou> then Bert is probably the owner
  116. # [16:29] <SimonSapin> nor in http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/
  117. # [16:29] <SimonSapin> do we have other repositories?
  118. # [16:33] <glazou> the web site's
  119. # [16:33] <glazou> and it appears to be there I think
  120. # [16:33] <glazou> ask Bert :-D
  121. # [16:33] <SimonSapin> I will, thanks
  122. # [16:33] <glenn> glazou: is there alternative to align-content in order to get vertical alignment on block elements?
  123. # [16:34] <glazou> in flex you mean ?
  124. # [16:34] <glenn> i'm trying to figure out a reasonable mapping from XSL-FO's display-align property to CSS
  125. # [16:34] <glenn> glazou: align-content is presently defined in CSS3 Alignment Module
  126. # [16:34] <glazou> looking
  127. # [16:35] <glazou> glenn, and in http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-flexbox/#align-content-property
  128. # [16:36] <glazou> I think this is your best option, yes
  129. # [16:36] <glenn> the prob is that vertical-align (CSS2) only applies to inlines and table cells
  130. # [16:36] <glazou> and you can't use inline-blocks ?
  131. # [16:37] <glenn> haven't investigated that, but will do so; tnx
  132. # [16:37] <glenn> i imagine folks must have some hacks they've been using to get vertical alignment in div etc without yet having align-content available
  133. # [16:38] * Quits: rhauck1 (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
  134. # [16:38] <glazou> glenn, I suggest you ask bradk
  135. # [16:38] <glazou> web designers
  136. # [16:38] <glenn> k
  137. # [16:38] <glazou> they know hacks and browser specific stuff
  138. # [16:38] <glenn> i need something that isn't browser specific, but will chk further
  139. # [16:39] <glenn> i'm trying to define a new formatting model for TTML that uses only html/css features rather than xsl-fo
  140. # [16:39] <glenn> but we had used XSL-FO's display-align and writing-mode properties
  141. # [16:40] <glenn> so now have to find a reasonable "standardized" mapping
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  145. # [16:53] <glazou> Bert, not sure "blah blah" is a valid hg commit message….
  146. # [16:53] <glazou> at least not a very useful one
  147. # [16:54] <glazou> since it's visible in twitter account @CSScommits, can I suggest you find better messages ?-)
  148. # [16:54] * Quits: shepazu (schepers@public.cloak) ("is sleepy")
  149. # [16:55] <SimonSapin> Bert, also it would be nice to start commit messages with the spec short name, eg. [css3-page]
  150. # [16:56] <glazou> that too
  151. # [16:56] <glazou> it's not "nice", it's a WG resolution
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  154. # [16:58] * BradK_ is now known as BradK
  155. # [16:59] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
  156. # [16:59] <Zakim> +??P0
  157. # [16:59] * Quits: plh (plehegar@public.cloak) ("Leaving")
  158. # [16:59] <glazou> Zakim, ??P0 is me
  159. # [16:59] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
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  164. # [17:02] <Zakim> + +97362aaaa
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  166. # [17:02] <glazou> Zakim, aaaa is antonp
  167. # [17:02] <Zakim> +antonp; got it
  168. # [17:03] <Zakim> + +1.610.324.aabb
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  173. # [17:03] <Zakim> +Stearns
  174. # [17:03] <glazou> Zakim, aabb is djackson
  175. # [17:03] <Zakim> +djackson; got it
  176. # [17:03] * djackson is now known as dael
  177. # [17:03] <Zakim> +SimonSapin
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  180. # [17:05] <Zakim> +SteveZ
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  183. # [17:05] <Zakim> + +1.415.308.aacc
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  185. # [17:06] <Zakim> + +1.416.800.aadd
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  187. # [17:06] <krit> Zakim, aacc is me
  188. # [17:06] <Zakim> +krit; got it
  189. # [17:06] <Zakim> +??P12
  190. # [17:06] <Zakim> + +1.415.832.aaee
  191. # [17:06] <Zakim> + +1.253.307.aaff
  192. # [17:06] <jdovey> Zakim, aadd is me
  193. # [17:06] <Zakim> +jdovey; got it
  194. # [17:06] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
  195. # [17:06] <rhauck> Zakim, aaee is me
  196. # [17:06] <Zakim> +rhauck; got it
  197. # [17:06] <Zakim> +fantasai
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  199. # [17:06] <Zakim> + +1.650.766.aagg
  200. # [17:07] <florian> Zakim, [IPcaller] has me
  201. # [17:07] <Zakim> +florian; got it
  202. # [17:07] <glazou> http://lockerz.com/s/286935518
  203. # [17:07] <nvdbleek2> zakim, who is on the phone?
  204. # [17:07] <Zakim> On the phone I see glazou, antonp, djackson, Stearns, SimonSapin, SteveZ, krit, jdovey, ??P12, rhauck, +1.253.307.aaff, [IPcaller], fantasai, +1.650.766.aagg
  205. # [17:07] <Zakim> [IPcaller] has florian
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  208. # [17:07] <nvdbleek2> zakim, I am P12
  209. # [17:07] <Zakim> sorry, nvdbleek2, I do not see a party named 'P12'
  210. # [17:07] <Zakim> +Bert
  211. # [17:07] * Joins: smfr (~smfr@public.cloak)
  212. # [17:07] <nvdbleek2> zakim, I am ??P12
  213. # [17:07] <Zakim> +nvdbleek2; got it
  214. # [17:07] <Zakim> +smfr
  215. # [17:07] * nvdbleek2 wow
  216. # [17:08] * nvdbleek2 we only got 10cm in Belgium
  217. # [17:08] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  218. # [17:08] <JohnJansen> Zakim, Microsoft has JohnJansen
  219. # [17:08] <Zakim> +JohnJansen; got it
  220. # [17:08] <glazou> Zakim, who is on the phone ?
  221. # [17:08] <Zakim> On the phone I see glazou, antonp, djackson, Stearns, SimonSapin, SteveZ, krit, jdovey, nvdbleek2, rhauck, +1.253.307.aaff, [IPcaller], fantasai, +1.650.766.aagg, Bert, smfr,
  222. # [17:08] <Zakim> ... [Microsoft]
  223. # [17:08] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has JohnJansen
  224. # [17:08] <Zakim> [IPcaller] has florian
  225. # [17:08] <glazou> Zakim, aagg is BradK
  226. # [17:08] <Zakim> +BradK; got it
  227. # [17:08] * Joins: koji (~koji@public.cloak)
  228. # [17:09] <fantasai> Scribe: fantasai
  229. # [17:09] <Zakim> +dbaron
  230. # [17:10] <fantasai> glazou: Sorry for sending agenda really late. Blocked by snowstorm in Paris.
  231. # [17:10] <Zakim> +glenn
  232. # [17:10] <fantasai> glazou: So agenda is somewhat random.
  233. # [17:10] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@public.cloak)
  234. # [17:10] <Zakim> +??P31
  235. # [17:10] <fantasai> glazou: Please, if any other items, say so
  236. # [17:11] <glazou> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2013JanMar/0284.html
  237. # [17:11] <fantasai> glazou: First on agenda is wrt specs that are WDs moving along REC track
  238. # [17:11] <fantasai> glazou: "Outstanding Publications"
  239. # [17:11] <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
  240. # [17:11] <koji> zakim, [ipcaller.a] is me
  241. # [17:11] <Zakim> +koji; got it
  242. # [17:12] <fantasai> fantasai: [summarizes email]
  243. # [17:12] <fantasai> krit: Does the announcement need to be on a blog post?
  244. # [17:12] <fantasai> glazou: IIRC we resolved on that a year and a half ago
  245. # [17:13] <fantasai> glazou: One of the editors should write a blog post on the CSSWG blog
  246. # [17:13] <fantasai> glazou: and post on twitter wrt updated WD/etc.
  247. # [17:13] <fantasai> SimonSapin: How do you publish on the blog?
  248. # [17:13] <Zakim> +Tantek
  249. # [17:13] <fantasai> glazou: WordPress with W3C credentials
  250. # [17:13] <tantek> Zakim, mute Tantek
  251. # [17:13] <Zakim> Tantek should now be muted
  252. # [17:13] <fantasai> glazou: If you can't log in, ask Coralie Mercier
  253. # [17:13] <fantasai> http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/publish
  254. # [17:14] <Bert> (Or ask me, but in principle all WG members have write access to the blog automatically.)
  255. # [17:15] <fantasai> fantasai: The idea is to post to www-style/blog to let people know that there's an update, to say what's changed/what you'd like feedback on especially.
  256. # [17:15] <fantasai> glazou: Next item, adding Simon Pieters to CSSOM
  257. # [17:15] * fantasai sp on that name
  258. # [17:15] <fantasai> ?
  259. # [17:16] <glazou> fantasai, spelling correct
  260. # [17:16] <fantasai> glenn: Shane hasn't been able to contribute
  261. # [17:16] <fantasai> glenn: I suggest that Simon could take over primary editorship on CSSOM-View spec
  262. # [17:16] <fantasai> glenn: and could assist with CSSOM as well, depending how much energy he can put in, can make more progress
  263. # [17:16] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Add Simon Pieters as editor to CSSOM, CSSOM-View
  264. # [17:17] <fantasai> fantasai: On topic of publications, has telecon for css3-conditional CR been scheduled?
  265. # [17:17] <fantasai> Bert: Working on that today.
  266. # [17:17] <SimonSapin> Simon Pieters is sometimes zcorpan on IRC
  267. # [17:18] <fantasai> glazou: September F2F
  268. # [17:18] <fantasai> SteveZ: The website currently lists week of Sept 9-13
  269. # [17:18] <fantasai> SteveZ: Those are fine with me, but have a conflicting meeting the next week, was hoping to lock down dates for that week
  270. # [17:19] <fantasai> glazou: I have PM from Peter, he's ifne with 9-13 but would prefer beginning of the week
  271. # [17:19] <SimonSapin> http://wiki.csswg.org/planning/tokyo-2013 lists June 5~7 … is that obsolete
  272. # [17:19] <fantasai> SteveZ: Fine with me
  273. # [17:19] <SimonSapin> ?
  274. # [17:19] <SimonSapin> oh, sorry
  275. # [17:19] <fantasai> SteveZ: 2nd question is where. Talking about France
  276. # [17:19] <SimonSapin> not the same meeting
  277. # [17:19] <fantasai> SteveZ: Document conference in Florence 10-13
  278. # [17:19] <fantasai> SteveZ: Hard to do both in same week
  279. # [17:19] <fantasai> glazou: Unfortunately missing members in the room at this time
  280. # [17:20] <fantasai> SteveZ: Don't know who was planning to go to that conference.
  281. # [17:20] <fantasai> Bert: I added that to the calendar, in case ppl were interested in sharing.
  282. # [17:21] <fantasai> Bert: ACM Document Engineering: layout, process, etc.
  283. # [17:21] <fantasai> Bert: Very interesting
  284. # [17:21] <fantasai> [discussion on conference scheduling]
  285. # [17:22] <fantasai> Bert: Don't think there will be a lot of overlap, but might be interesting. Not important enough to reschedule our own meeting.
  286. # [17:22] <fantasai> glazou: So let's say for time being 9-10. Where?
  287. # [17:22] <fantasai> fantasai: Paris and Zurich
  288. # [17:23] <fantasai> were volunteered
  289. # [17:23] <fantasai> SteveZ: And Sophia
  290. # [17:23] <tantek> for Paris we were considering Mozilla hosting
  291. # [17:23] <fantasai> dbaron: New Mozilla office in Paris opens soon, but not open yet. Might be easier to assess once it's open
  292. # [17:23] <tantek> Paris Mozilla office should be open by start of next month
  293. # [17:23] <fantasai> glazou: Everyone ok with 9-11 Sept in France?
  294. # [17:24] <fantasai> RESOLVED: September F2F is 9-11 in France, either Sophia or Paris
  295. # [17:24] <florian> I won't know my availability then for quite a while, so I can't comment either way
  296. # [17:24] <tantek> glazou - I have a meeting in the 8th in the UK
  297. # [17:24] <tantek> would F2F 10-12 be ok?
  298. # [17:24] <dbaron> I think there was also an offer from Google to host in Zürich
  299. # [17:24] <tantek> ok
  300. # [17:24] <Zakim> -glenn
  301. # [17:24] <fantasai> glazou: (to tantek) Take the EuroStar. No problem.
  302. # [17:25] <fantasai> glazou: agenda item wrt Flexbox
  303. # [17:25] <glazou> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2013JanMar/0296.html
  304. # [17:25] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Feb/0364.html
  305. # [17:25] <Zakim> -BradK
  306. # [17:25] <fantasai> glazou: wrt reverting Flexbox to use zero as min-width
  307. # [17:25] <fantasai> glazou: Has anyone reviewed the proposal?
  308. # [17:25] <fantasai> dbaron: Fine with it
  309. # [17:25] <fantasai> Rossen: Yes, agreed
  310. # [17:26] <fantasai> glazou: Other opinions?
  311. # [17:26] <fantasai> Anton: Why did we add it in the first place
  312. # [17:26] <glazou> Regrets: plh
  313. # [17:26] <Zakim> +BradK
  314. # [17:26] <fantasai> dbaron: What we lose by changing it, we get back when we add min-content and other keywords for heights
  315. # [17:26] <glazou> Zakim, mute BradK
  316. # [17:26] <Zakim> BradK should now be muted
  317. # [17:26] <fantasai> dbaron: Temporary loss, ability to have flexbox that doesn't go down below its intrinsic size
  318. # [17:27] <dbaron> get it back with the min-content etc. keywords
  319. # [17:27] * Joins: glenn_ (~gadams@public.cloak)
  320. # [17:27] * Quits: glenn (~gadams@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 60 seconds)
  321. # [17:27] <glazou> Zakim, who is on the phone?
  322. # [17:27] <Zakim> On the phone I see glazou, antonp, djackson, Stearns, SimonSapin, SteveZ, krit, jdovey, nvdbleek2, rhauck, +1.253.307.aaff, [IPcaller], fantasai, Bert, smfr, [Microsoft], dbaron,
  323. # [17:27] <Zakim> ... ??P31, koji, Tantek (muted), BradK (muted)
  324. # [17:28] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has JohnJansen
  325. # [17:28] <Zakim> [IPcaller] has florian
  326. # [17:28] <fantasai> fantasai: We were triggering it by default because shrinking by default.
  327. # [17:28] <fantasai> fantasai: Thought it was good to have a minimum for some common cases like toolbars.
  328. # [17:28] <fantasai> Rossen: once we have min-content, then all other keywords, we get everything back.
  329. # [17:28] <Zakim> +glenn
  330. # [17:29] <fantasai> fantasai: The problem with having it by default is that nested flexboxes get complicated and hard to author.
  331. # [17:29] <fantasai> glazou: Any objections to the proposal?
  332. # [17:29] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Reset min-width/min-height to zero for Flex Items
  333. # [17:29] * Joins: Rossen (~Rossen@public.cloak)
  334. # [17:30] <fantasai> fantasai notes that MSFT's implementation does min-content by default, so app authors would have to be aware of that change.
  335. # [17:31] <glazou> plh: no progress on IETF liaison (re last week's conf call)
  336. # [17:31] <fantasai> Rossen: When evaluated internally, thought it was fine to explicitly request min-content.
  337. # [17:31] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Mar/0219.html
  338. # [17:31] <fantasai> I think I dreamed that I replied to that...
  339. # [17:31] <fantasai> SimonSapin explains his email
  340. # [17:31] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  341. # [17:31] <Zakim> -??P31
  342. # [17:32] <Rossen> zakim, microsoft has me
  343. # [17:32] <Zakim> +Rossen; got it
  344. # [17:32] <BradK> Zakim, unmute me
  345. # [17:32] <Zakim> BradK should no longer be muted
  346. # [17:32] <fantasai> fantasai: I think actually that we should keep "page box" as the name of the box into which the content is flowed
  347. # [17:33] <fantasai> SimonSapin: Do we change how MQ work?
  348. # [17:33] <fantasai> fantasai: There's an open issue on that anyway
  349. # [17:33] <fantasai> SimonSapin: They're based on outer width of page box
  350. # [17:33] <fantasai> fantasai: And just need a new term for size given by size property
  351. # [17:34] <BradK> I agree with Simon
  352. # [17:34] <fantasai> SimonSapin: Also might want page-margin boxes to be siblings of page box.
  353. # [17:34] <fantasai> SimonSapin: Would help explain stacking
  354. # [17:34] <fantasai> fantasai: Wouldn't explain inheritance though.
  355. # [17:34] <fantasai> fantasai: For the other size... maybe "initial page size"? like "initial containing block".
  356. # [17:35] <fantasai> fantasai: "page base size" or "page basis"
  357. # [17:35] <Zakim> - +1.253.307.aaff
  358. # [17:35] <Zakim> -SteveZ
  359. # [17:35] <fantasai> SimonSapin: But MQ refers to...
  360. # [17:35] <fantasai> fantasai: We can always update MQ to fix terminology. That's just editorial.
  361. # [17:37] <fantasai> SimonSapin: Is group ok with making page box sibling of margin boxes?
  362. # [17:37] <fantasai> fantasai: Don't think it matters how you explain it, as long as behavior doesn't change.
  363. # [17:37] <fantasai> ?: Think it makes sense.
  364. # [17:37] * Quits: krit (~krit@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
  365. # [17:37] <antonp> s/?/antonp/
  366. # [17:37] <BradK> I like it as sibling
  367. # [17:38] <BradK> Content-box
  368. # [17:38] <fantasai> "page container"
  369. # [17:38] <SimonSapin> page-content box
  370. # [17:38] <fantasai> no, that would be the content box of the page box
  371. # [17:39] * fantasai thinks this isn't important to resolve, it's just editorial
  372. # [17:39] * antonp agrees with fantasai
  373. # [17:39] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Call the page box's containing block a page container
  374. # [17:39] <fantasai> SimonSapin: If we have time, could discuss interaction of @page and MQ
  375. # [17:39] <fantasai> glazou: Might have time today
  376. # [17:40] <fantasai> glazou: Liam's not on the call, so yes we have time
  377. # [17:40] <fantasai> SimonSapin: we have an open issue a long time
  378. # [17:40] <fantasai> SimonSapin: How do viewport units interact with @page
  379. # [17:40] <fantasai> SimonSapin: ...
  380. # [17:40] <fantasai> SimonSapin: We discussed @viewport
  381. # [17:41] <fantasai> SimonSapin: Which changes the default page size, and then applies MQ
  382. # [17:41] <fantasai> SimonSapin: and affects viewport units
  383. # [17:41] <BradK> Can we remove the 'inactive' note next to css3 page, on the Current Work page?
  384. # [17:42] <fantasai> fantasai: I think for viewport units in these contexts, it makes sense to either make them invalid, or have them refer to the default page size, like fonts refer to default page size
  385. # [17:42] <Bert> (I agree with BradK: css3-page doesn't seem very inactive anymore.)
  386. # [17:42] <SimonSapin> :root { font-size: 1vw } @page { width: 50em }
  387. # [17:43] <fantasai> SimonSapin: @page inherits from root element now
  388. # [17:44] <fantasai> fantasai: This is so that if you set fonts on your document, your margin boxes get the same font.
  389. # [17:44] <fantasai> SimonSapin: So where do we break this cycle?
  390. # [17:45] <fantasai> SimonSapin: (without breaking some use case)
  391. # [17:45] <fantasai> SimonSapin: Maybe one way to do that is like @viewport, make a first pass applying @page rules
  392. # [17:45] <fantasai> SimonSapin: viewport units are base don some default
  393. # [17:45] <fantasai> SimonSapin: Then we have base page size, whatever the name,
  394. # [17:45] <fantasai> SimonSapin: which is used for MQ when we apply everything again
  395. # [17:45] <fantasai> SimonSapin: It works nicely with @viewport
  396. # [17:46] <fantasai> SimonSapin: But for @page rules it's more complicated because we generate pages
  397. # [17:46] <fantasai> SimonSapin: Could get weird cases which don't make sense.
  398. # [17:46] <fantasai> florian: In general support the idea, but don't know enough about page generation
  399. # [17:47] <fantasai> fantasai: [explains named pages and how, e.g. name of first page can depend on 'page' property of first heading in document]
  400. # [17:47] <fantasai> fantasai: I would be in favor of breaking this cycle earlier somehow
  401. # [17:48] * glazou +1
  402. # [17:48] <fantasai> Florian: Need a non-crazy behavior, don't need to go further than that.
  403. # [17:49] <fantasai> fantasai: Simon's example there shows two very common use cases
  404. # [17:49] <fantasai> fantasai: First one is commonly used for slides, or anything else you want font size to grow with size of page
  405. # [17:49] <florian> when all the pages are the same size, do the obvious, when not, do something non crazy.
  406. # [17:50] <fantasai> fantasai: Second case is used in Japanese documents, where you want the page size to be an exact multiple of the size of the main paragraph font.
  407. # [17:50] <Zakim> +SteveZ
  408. # [17:50] <SimonSapin> @page { size: A4; margin: 4em; /* width: auto */ }
  409. # [17:51] <fantasai> florian: Do you want the page size based on the character, or the character size based on the page?
  410. # [17:51] <fantasai> fantasai: The former. You pick a comfortable font size and lay out around that.
  411. # [17:51] <fantasai> koji: Yeah
  412. # [17:51] <fantasai> fantasai: So we want both of those to work, but don't want them to make a cycle.
  413. # [17:52] <fantasai> SimonSapin: One option is to have the @page context not inherit from the root
  414. # [17:52] <fantasai> SimonSapin: That does break some use cases, but easiest to work around.
  415. # [17:52] <fantasai> SimonSapin: Just means that you have to copy your font declarations into an @page rule.
  416. # [17:52] <fantasai> glazou: Maybe the only way we can compromise without adding too much overhead.
  417. # [17:52] * fantasai wonders what AH does
  418. # [17:53] <fantasai> SimonSapin: Also 'direction' and 'writing-mode' properties can be relevant
  419. # [17:53] <fantasai> SimonSapin: they determine which is the first page: left or right
  420. # [17:53] <fantasai> SimonSapin: Another reason it's nice to have inheritance from the root element
  421. # [17:55] <fantasai> florian: I'm wondering if the first page really matters. Whichever page it is, all going to be the same. If they're going to be different can't be perfect anyway
  422. # [17:55] * fantasai notes that Japanese documents commonly use multiple sizes in the same book
  423. # [17:55] * fantasai same margin box size, different page content areas
  424. # [17:56] <fantasai> SimonSapin: So, we don't need to decide anything today about this, but please think about it and discuss on mailing list.
  425. # [17:56] <fantasai> florian: do we have a few concrete options? Or just vague problem area where we need ideas.
  426. # [17:57] <fantasai> SimonSapin: So one proposal is to do like @viewport, do two passes.
  427. # [17:57] <fantasai> SimonSapin: Other option is to not inherit from the root element.
  428. # [17:57] <fantasai> fantasai: Whatever we do here should be consistent with @viewport
  429. # [17:58] <fantasai> fantasai: So my criteria are
  430. # [17:58] <fantasai> a) break the cycle
  431. # [17:58] <fantasai> b) don't break use cases, even if some are less convenient
  432. # [17:58] <Zakim> -SimonSapin
  433. # [17:58] <fantasai> c) keep @page and @viewport consistent
  434. # [17:58] <fantasai> SimonSapin, can you minute what you just said? >_<
  435. # [17:58] <SimonSapin> my call just dropped
  436. # [17:58] <fantasai> florian: Agree with fantasai's statement. Not sure I understand all the implications of that.
  437. # [17:59] <SimonSapin> if we go with not inherit from the root
  438. # [17:59] * Joins: jarek (~jarek@public.cloak)
  439. # [17:59] <fantasai> glazou: Not sure we're going to close this now
  440. # [17:59] <Zakim> +SimonSapin
  441. # [17:59] <fantasai> glazou: Maybe up to you to make a proposal based on discussion we had today
  442. # [17:59] <fantasai> http://wiki.csswg.org/topics
  443. # [18:00] <fantasai> SimonSapin: I will write up various options by email
  444. # [18:00] <fantasai> glazou: Anything else?
  445. # [18:01] <fantasai> florian: Several things on device-adapation spec. Would be nice to tackle, but would like to hear from rest of group.
  446. # [18:01] <fantasai> florian: Think MS has partial implementation. Others?
  447. # [18:01] <fantasai> florian: Agree with Håkon most of what was proposed
  448. # [18:01] <fantasai> glazou: Since you're not working for Opera... is Opera still working on this?
  449. # [18:01] <fantasai> florian: I have don't know what they're doing
  450. # [18:02] <fantasai> florian: I would guess they'll try to port this to WebKit
  451. # [18:02] <fantasai> florian: Rune has sent a bunch of mails about this after the announcement, so maybe still working on it. Pure speculation.
  452. # [18:02] <fantasai> glazou: We have 3 editors
  453. # [18:02] <fantasai> glazou: 3 issues in tracker.
  454. # [18:02] <fantasai> glazou: Let me ping the editors
  455. # [18:02] <Zakim> -krit
  456. # [18:02] <fantasai> florian: I think at some point I was supposed to co-edit this as well
  457. # [18:02] <fantasai> florian: Tracked issues are fewer than the mailing list
  458. # [18:02] <Zakim> +krit
  459. # [18:03] <fantasai> glazou: Ok, I will ping the editors
  460. # [18:03] <fantasai> and you
  461. # [18:03] <fantasai> glazou: anything else?
  462. # [18:03] <fantasai> Meeting closed.
  463. # [18:03] <Zakim> -SteveZ
  464. # [18:03] <BradK> Bye.
  465. # [18:03] <Zakim> -dbaron
  466. # [18:03] <Zakim> -krit
  467. # [18:03] <Zakim> -glazou
  468. # [18:03] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
  469. # [18:03] <Zakim> -antonp
  470. # [18:03] <Zakim> -Bert
  471. # [18:03] <Zakim> -rhauck
  472. # [18:03] <Zakim> -smfr
  473. # [18:03] <Zakim> -jdovey
  474. # [18:03] <Zakim> -koji
  475. # [18:03] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  476. # [18:03] <Zakim> -djackson
  477. # [18:03] <Zakim> -Tantek
  478. # [18:03] <Zakim> -BradK
  479. # [18:03] <Zakim> -glenn
  480. # [18:03] <Zakim> -fantasai
  481. # [18:03] * Quits: dael (~djackson@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  482. # [18:03] * Parts: jdovey (~jdovey@public.cloak) (jdovey)
  483. # [18:03] <Zakim> -SimonSapin
  484. # [18:03] <Zakim> -Stearns
  485. # [18:03] * Parts: smfr (~smfr@public.cloak) (smfr)
  486. # [18:03] * Parts: BradK (~bradk@public.cloak) (BradK)
  487. # [18:03] * Quits: koji (~koji@public.cloak) ("Leaving...")
  488. # [18:03] <SimonSapin> fantasai: what’s next for publishing css3-page?
  489. # [18:04] <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
  490. # [18:06] * Quits: glazou (~glazou@public.cloak) (glazou)
  491. # [18:07] * Quits: Rossen (~Rossen@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
  492. # [18:07] <fantasai> SimonSapin: I'll regenerate the draft for WD and send it out
  493. # [18:07] <fantasai> :0
  494. # [18:09] <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, nvdbleek2, in Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
  495. # [18:09] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  496. # [18:09] <Zakim> Attendees were glazou, +97362aaaa, antonp, +1.610.324.aabb, Stearns, djackson, SimonSapin, SteveZ, +1.415.308.aacc, +1.416.800.aadd, krit, +1.415.832.aaee, +1.253.307.aaff, jdovey,
  497. # [18:09] <Zakim> ... rhauck, fantasai, +1.650.766.aagg, florian, Bert, nvdbleek2, smfr, JohnJansen, BradK, dbaron, glenn, [IPcaller], koji, Tantek, [Microsoft], Rossen
  498. # [18:15] * Joins: darktears (~darktears@public.cloak)
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  501. # [18:31] <SimonSapin> fantasai: so, anything I need to do?
  502. # [18:31] <fantasai> Nope, I'm regenerating it as we speak
  503. # [18:31] <SimonSapin> great, thanks
  504. # [18:36] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 60 seconds)
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  519. # [19:09] <fantasai> SimonSapin: you forgot to add issues for the viewport unit cycle and for the @page rule OM...
  520. # [19:10] <SimonSapin> fantasai: you mean inline issue?
  521. # [19:10] <SimonSapin> viewport units kind of go together with page size vs. MQ
  522. # [19:11] * Quits: rhauck (~Adium@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 60 seconds)
  523. # [19:11] <SimonSapin> OM, yes indeed, but if the WG agrees on separated .cssRules and .style then it should be easy
  524. # [19:11] <fantasai> SimonSapin: Not really. They're both cycles, but they're different cycles :)
  525. # [19:12] <SimonSapin> they’re related in that doing two passes like @viewport can solve both
  526. # [19:13] <SimonSapin> but I’m not sure what to in an inline issue
  527. # [19:13] <SimonSapin> what to write*
  528. # [19:17] <SimonSapin> fantasai: is it still time to add something?
  529. # [19:17] <fantasai> I added something
  530. # [19:18] <SimonSapin> ok, thanks
  531. # [19:18] <fantasai> publishing stuff without the postprocessor is annoyng :/
  532. # [19:18] <fantasai> (css-print)
  533. # [19:19] <SimonSapin> fantasai: apparently the postprocessor is meant to be idempotent
  534. # [19:19] <SimonSapin> I think that’s the wrong idea and that both "source" and "generated" stuff should be kept around, but for css-print it could be useful
  535. # [19:21] * fantasai shrugs
  536. # [19:21] <fantasai> it's done
  537. # [19:21] <fantasai> Hopefully I never have to touch that file again :)
  538. # [19:21] * fantasai wouldn't bet on it, though. Somebody's bound to notice an error
  539. # [19:21] <fantasai> There's always errors *somewhere*
  540. # [19:22] <SimonSapin> hehe
  541. # [19:24] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak)
  542. # [19:25] * fantasai waves to Ms2ger
  543. # [19:26] * Ms2ger waves back
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  547. # [19:35] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
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  555. # [20:03] <SimonSapin> fantasai: you reworded the part comparing selector specificity, but I took it from selectors4 so you might want to change it there too
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  560. # [20:12] <fantasai> SimonSapin: kk!
  561. # [20:14] * Quits: darktears (~darktears@public.cloak) (darktears)
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  563. # [20:32] * Quits: isherman-book (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
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  574. # [22:23] * Quits: krit (~krit@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
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  583. # [23:42] * Quits: isherman-book (~Adium@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 60 seconds)
  584. # [23:42] * Quits: macpherson (~macpherson@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 60 seconds)
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  586. # [23:48] * Quits: isherman-book (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
  587. # Session Close: Thu Mar 14 00:00:00 2013

The end :)