/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2013-03-15 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Mar 15 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #css
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  26. # [00:17] <thegame> SHITTY SHITTY FAG FAG SHITTY SHITTY FAG FAG SHITTY SHITTY FAG FAG SHITTY SHITTY FAG FAG SHITTY SHITTY FAG FAG SHITTY SHITTY FAG FAG SHITTY SHITTY FAG FAG SHITTY SHITTY FAG FAG SHITTY SHITTY FAG FAG SHITTY SHITTY FAG FAG SHITTY SHITTY FAG FAG SHITTY SHITTY FAG FAG SHITTY SHITTY FAG FAG SHITTY SHITTY FAG FAG SHITTY SHITTY FAG FAG SHITTY SHITTY FAG FAG SHITTY...
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  34. # [00:33] * TabAtkins_ sets mode: +b *!*48b8fc16@public.cloak
  35. # [00:33] * thegame was kicked by TabAtkins_
  36. # [00:33] * TabAtkins_ sets mode: +o fantasai
  37. # [00:33] * fantasai sets mode: +ooooo Bert dbaron gsnedders hober krijnh
  38. # [00:33] * fantasai sets mode: +oooo leaverou shepazu stearns SteveZ
  39. # [00:35] <@fantasai> TabAtkins_: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Mar/0260.html
  40. # [00:36] <@fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Mar/0143.html
  41. # [00:38] * @fantasai thinks we should go back to not allowing port 6667
  42. # [00:39] * @fantasai doesn't recall this kind of problem previously
  43. # [00:43] * Quits: abucur (~abucur@public.cloak) ("Leaving")
  44. # [00:56] <@fantasai> alexmog: Thoughts on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Mar/0143.html ?
  45. # [01:02] <@fantasai> TabAtkins_: http://wiki.csswg.org/tools/www-style
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  60. # [03:00] * @fantasai waves to jdaggett
  61. # [03:01] * fantasai sets mode: +o sylvaing
  62. # [03:03] * jdaggett waves back, from the new office in nogizaka!!
  63. # [03:03] * jdaggett right next to this place -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:National_Art_Center_Tokyo_2008.jpg
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  65. # [03:05] <@fantasai> woah, that looks awesome
  66. # [03:05] <@fantasai> which subway stop?
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  68. # [03:17] <glenn> fantasai: ping?
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  135. # [18:19] <@leaverou> TabAtkins_: here?
  136. # [18:20] <TabAtkins_> leaverou: pong
  137. # [18:22] <@leaverou> TabAtkins_: do you think it might be worth it to write a proposal for CSS-based dragging (akin to resize) or has it already been discussed? (maybe I have asked you before, not sure, it's floating in my mind for a while)
  138. # [18:23] <TabAtkins_> It would be interesting. I've tried to think of something like it, but got bogged down in details of how to mesh it with declarative-ness.
  139. # [18:23] <TabAtkins_> Probably not so big a problem as I thought it was, though.
  140. # [18:23] <@leaverou> TabAtkins_: maybe you tried to cover too many use cases? I think it should be something simple, almost as much as resize, for basic stuff
  141. # [18:24] <TabAtkins_> Nah, it was basic, I think I was just caught up in the fact that it needs to affect the computed or used value of some other property.
  142. # [18:25] <@leaverou> TabAtkins_: isn't resize the same?
  143. # [18:26] <TabAtkins_> I dunno how resize actually works. But yes, it should be the same.
  144. # [18:27] <@leaverou> TabAtkins_: not sure about the spec, but in most browsers, if you observe it through the dev tools, it seems like they are actually changing the inline style of the element as it's being resized
  145. # [18:27] <@leaverou> which is kinda weird
  146. # [18:27] <TabAtkins_> Agreed.
  147. # [18:28] <TabAtkins_> It *should* just affect the computed values of the properties or something.
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  149. # [18:28] <TabAtkins_> Or used.
  150. # [18:30] <@leaverou> TabAtkins_: in any case, I think if resize is possible, drag should be too
  151. # [18:30] <TabAtkins_> Yup.
  152. # [18:30] <TabAtkins_> Though the effect has to be defined.
  153. # [18:30] <TabAtkins_> Does it have to be abspos before it can be dragged? Does dragging it *make* it abspos? Or is it more like relpos/transforms?
  154. # [18:30] <TabAtkins_> Or like margins?
  155. # [18:31] <TabAtkins_> The precise choice you make has important consequences.
  156. # [18:31] <@leaverou> TabAtkins_: I think even if it only applies to abspos, it would still be useful
  157. # [18:31] <TabAtkins_> Oh, definitely.
  158. # [18:31] <@leaverou> and I don't see why it couldn't apply to relpos as well
  159. # [18:31] <@leaverou> TabAtkins_: although abspos without defined offsets might be tricky
  160. # [18:32] <TabAtkins_> Sure. If you just define it on top of top/left, that works out fine.
  161. # [18:32] <TabAtkins_> Another possibility is to define it as a translate() transform.
  162. # [18:32] <@leaverou> that would certainly solve the issue I just describe
  163. # [18:32] <TabAtkins_> Done after all the other transforms, obviously.
  164. # [18:32] <@leaverou> *described
  165. # [18:32] <TabAtkins_> Yeah, transforms stack well.
  166. # [18:33] <@leaverou> you mean before the other transforms?
  167. # [18:33] <TabAtkins_> That also means you can use it on all elements.
  168. # [18:33] <TabAtkins_> No, you don't want to translate it before rotating.
  169. # [18:33] <@leaverou> that might make it tough to develop a polyfill for
  170. # [18:33] <TabAtkins_> ...why?
  171. # [18:34] <TabAtkins_> Putting it at the start or end of the transform stack is equally easy/difficult.
  172. # [18:35] <@leaverou> if you put it at the end, you'd have to calculate the effect of the other transforms too, which might be tougher for polyfill authors. Though not sure how much that's a concern
  173. # [18:35] <TabAtkins_> Why would you need to do that?
  174. # [18:35] <TabAtkins_> Just apply it last!
  175. # [18:35] <TabAtkins_> You don't have to care what else has happened.
  176. # [18:35] <@leaverou> but the previous transforms change the coordinate system
  177. # [18:36] <TabAtkins_> Wait, hm, let me experiment real quick. You may be right.
  178. # [18:36] <@leaverou> try rotate() translate() and then translate() rotate()
  179. # [18:39] <@leaverou> in any case, I'm thinking that left/top offsets are closer to what authors are currently doing with script, so it might be wiser to do it that way
  180. # [18:39] <TabAtkins_> I don't think that's a good idea.
  181. # [18:40] <@leaverou> why?
  182. # [18:40] <TabAtkins_> Particularly given the different ways that top/left are interpreted based on the positioning type.
  183. # [18:40] <@leaverou> could that be special cased or something?
  184. # [18:40] <TabAtkins_> It could, but I think it's way cleaner to just use something that doesn't need special-casing, like a transform.
  185. # [18:40] <TabAtkins_> And you were right - you need to apply the translate first.
  186. # [18:40] <@leaverou> ha :D
  187. # [18:40] <TabAtkins_> Transform math confuses me.
  188. # [18:41] <@leaverou> you're not the only one
  189. # [18:41] <@leaverou> but it's kinda comforting to see that it confuses even you :P
  190. # [18:41] <TabAtkins_> Yeah, so, speccing it out as simply applying a pre-transform translate to the element works on all elements in all contexts.
  191. # [18:42] <TabAtkins_> And requires no magic or weird complications.
  192. # [18:42] <@leaverou> except inline elements of course :)
  193. # [18:42] <TabAtkins_> And generalizes to 3d dragging. ^_^
  194. # [18:42] <TabAtkins_> Ah, yes, inlines.
  195. # [18:42] <TabAtkins_> Welp, fuck 'em.
  196. # [18:42] <TabAtkins_> Can't abspos an inline either.
  197. # [18:42] <@leaverou> yup
  198. # [18:43] <@leaverou> fwiw, I don't think it's wise that you can't transform an inline just because we couldn't decide what to do with multiple boxes.
  199. # [18:43] <@leaverou> if you can't pick between A and B, not doing anything is rarely the best idea, in my very humble opinion
  200. # [18:44] <@stearns> and the multiple box problem crops up anyway in fragmentation contexts
  201. # [18:45] <TabAtkins_> Yeah. :/
  202. # [18:46] <@stearns> (lurks in irc just looking for chances to use the word 'fragmentation')
  203. # [18:46] <TabAtkins_> hahaha
  204. # [18:46] <@leaverou> it's a nice word indeed :P
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  218. # [21:31] <TabAtkins_> fantasai: Do you remember the details of our discussion about how to handle <dialog> and fullscreen and everything properly?
  219. # [21:32] <TabAtkins_> If I recall, the idea was to have a position switch that means, when the element generates a box, you also immediately generate a containing block filling the viewport.
  220. # [21:32] <TabAtkins_> And then have a separate switch for top-level-ness.
  221. # [21:32] <TabAtkins_> (And probably two levels of top-level, only the lower of which is accessible to the author.)
  222. # [21:34] <TabAtkins_> I think there may have been one more switch we wanted, maybe to control whether you leave geometry behind like relpos or not?
  223. # [21:34] <TabAtkins_> I don't recall if that was supposed to be an important thing or not. It probably is, for fullscreen.
  224. # [21:34] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak) ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
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  226. # [21:39] * krijnh sets mode: -o krijnh
  227. # [21:39] <krijnh> (That's not my status and you know it!)
  228. # [21:39] <TabAtkins_> krijnh: The point is to just maintain enough ops in the channel that we can get an op quickly when a spammer comes through.
  229. # [21:40] <krijnh> CounterStrike:Source still active? :')
  230. # [22:20] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak) ("nn")
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  232. # [22:28] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak) ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
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  234. # [22:56] <TabAtkins_> krijnh: Ah, yeah, that might be the source of some of the problems.
  235. # [22:57] <TabAtkins_> krijnh: We think that the W3C making this room available on the normal port is also part of it - very few spammers check non-standard ports.
  236. # [23:54] * Quits: krit (~krit@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
  237. # Session Close: Sat Mar 16 00:00:00 2013

The end :)