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- # Session Start: Wed Mar 20 00:00:00 2013
- # Session Ident: #css
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- # [16:29] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/03/20-css-irc
- # [16:29] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
- # [16:29] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 27 minutes
- # [16:29] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
- # [16:29] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
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- # [16:51] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
- # [16:52] <Zakim> + +1.858.354.aaaa
- # [16:52] <@plinss> zakim, aaaa is me
- # [16:52] <Zakim> +plinss; got it
- # [16:53] <Zakim> +??P10
- # [16:53] <glazou> Zakim, ??P10 is me
- # [16:53] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
- # [16:53] <Zakim> +rhauck
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- # [16:54] <krit> Zakim, who is on the phone
- # [16:54] <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', krit
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- # [16:54] <krit> Zakim, who is on the phone?
- # [16:54] <Zakim> On the phone I see plinss, glazou, rhauck
- # [16:54] <glazou> ah!
- # [16:54] <krit> Zakim, rhauck is me
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- # [16:54] <Zakim> +krit; got it
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- # [16:55] <Zakim> +djackson
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- # [16:56] <nvdbleek2> zakim, code?
- # [16:56] <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), nvdbleek2
- # [16:56] <Zakim> +antonp
- # [16:56] <Zakim> +smfr
- # [16:56] <@plinss> zakim, aabb is hober
- # [16:56] <Zakim> +hober; got it
- # [16:56] <Zakim> +fantasai
- # [16:56] <Zakim> +Stearns
- # [16:56] <Zakim> +nvdbleek
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- # [16:57] * leif has VoIP problems, will follow on IRC.
- # [16:57] <glazou> ok leif
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- # [16:58] <Zakim> +Bert
- # [16:58] <Zakim> +SimonSapin
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- # [16:58] * nvdbleek2 can somebody unblock my original irc handle (nvdbleek) I'm using a different irc client and hope/think it isn't leaving/rejoining constantly?
- # [16:59] * plh zakim, who is on the phone?
- # [16:59] * Zakim sees on the phone: plinss, glazou, krit, djackson, glenn, hober, antonp, smfr, fantasai, Stearns, nvdbleek, Bert, SimonSapin
- # [16:59] * plh zakim, call plh-mobile
- # [16:59] * Zakim ok, plh; the call is being made
- # [16:59] <Zakim> +Plh
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- # [16:59] <SimonSapin> oh, we can have Zakim call us?
- # [16:59] <@plinss> I think that's just for w3c staff
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- # [16:59] * nvdbleek2 only w3c staff
- # [16:59] * smfr changes topic to 'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Mar/0336.html'
- # [17:00] <Zakim> +??P35
- # [17:00] <nvdbleek2> zakim, mute me
- # [17:00] <Zakim> nvdbleek should now be muted
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- # [17:01] <arronei> regrets, only on IRC today
- # [17:01] <antonp> ScribeNick: antonp
- # [17:01] <antonp> TOPIC: additions to agenda
- # [17:02] <antonp> plinss: no additions
- # [17:02] <Zakim> + +1.832.797.aacc
- # [17:02] <antonp> TOPIC: Viewport units in paged media
- # [17:02] <antonp> SimonSapin: complicated, no solution yet
- # [17:02] * Joins: TabAtkins__ (~TabAtkins@public.cloak)
- # [17:03] <antonp> ... make undefined in values, noting that it's expected to be defined in css3-page
- # [17:03] <antonp> s/values/css3-values/
- # [17:03] <antonp> TabAtkins_: ok
- # [17:03] <Zakim> - +1.832.797.aacc
- # [17:03] <glazou> glazou, ok
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- # [17:04] <Zakim> + +1.832.797.aadd
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- # [17:04] <antonp> fantasai: are we making both ?? and ?? undefined?
- # [17:04] <antonp> SimonSapin: both
- # [17:04] <TabAtkins__> zakim, aadd is me
- # [17:04] <Zakim> +TabAtkins__; got it
- # [17:04] <Zakim> +Tantek
- # [17:04] <tantek> zakim, mute tantek
- # [17:04] <Zakim> Tantek should now be muted
- # [17:04] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
- # [17:04] <koji> zakim, [ipcaller] is me
- # [17:04] <Zakim> +koji; got it
- # [17:04] <Zakim> +[Apple]
- # [17:04] <Zakim> -hober
- # [17:04] <hober> Zakim, Apple is me
- # [17:04] <Zakim> +hober; got it
- # [17:05] <fantasai> s/?? and ??/viewport units used in the document and viewport units used on @page/
- # [17:05] * antonp thanks fantasai ;-)
- # [17:05] <antonp> fantasai: if we'll figure it out in the next couple of weeks, shouldn't we wait?
- # [17:06] <antonp> plinss: How about: instead of saying they're undefined in values, say explicitly that they /will/ be defined in css3-page
- # [17:06] * Quits: shanestephens (~shanestephens@public.cloak) (shanestephens)
- # [17:06] <antonp> fantasai: how about: it's defined one way if you support css21 page stuff, otherwise ??
- # [17:07] <antonp> SimonSapin: uncomfortable with values saying it's based on the first page; not sure that will be true
- # [17:07] <antonp> TabAtkins__: I agree
- # [17:07] <antonp> plinss: <wants to avoid confusion>
- # [17:08] * @leaverou Zakim, code?
- # [17:08] * Zakim saw 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org) given for the conference code, leaverou
- # [17:08] <antonp> ??: By undefined, remove definition or explicitly state it as undefined
- # [17:08] <antonp> TabAtkins__: both
- # [17:08] <@plinss> s/??/rossen/
- # [17:08] <Zakim> +Lea
- # [17:08] <antonp> SimonSapin: new values module will state that viewport units are based on ICB in continuous media, and undefined in css3-page
- # [17:09] <antonp> RESOLVED: <SimonSapin types it below>
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- # [17:10] * fantasai thinks it's still based on ICB or else we're failing something here, it's just a question of which ICB ;)
- # [17:10] * fantasai since Paged Media has several
- # [17:10] <SimonSapin> RESOLVED: css3-values to say: viewport units in continuous media are based on the ICB, in paged media undefined (expected to be defined in css3-page)
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- # [17:11] <antonp> TOPIC: Update form PLH on IETF liaison
- # [17:11] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
- # [17:11] <antonp> plh: no update yet
- # [17:11] <Zakim> -??P35
- # [17:11] <Rossen> zakim, microsoft has me
- # [17:11] <Zakim> +Rossen; got it
- # [17:11] <antonp> TOPIC: Renaming :matches()
- # [17:11] <tantek> sounds reasonable
- # [17:12] <smfr> url?
- # [17:12] <antonp> TabAtkins__: original name was 'any()'; we changed it for various reasons
- # [17:12] <smfr> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Mar/0275.html
- # [17:12] <antonp> Brian K pointed out that if we want to extend matches, the name doesn't fit in well with that
- # [17:12] <antonp> ...I agree with his argument, and I liked 'any'
- # [17:12] <fantasai> s/matches/matches and not to express logical combinators/
- # [17:13] <Zakim> +SteveZ
- # [17:13] * tantek likes :any
- # [17:13] * stearns prefers any-of
- # [17:13] <antonp> SimonSapin: I like 'any'
- # [17:13] <tantek> or any-of
- # [17:13] <antonp> ... but what were the reasons for changing
- # [17:13] <fantasai> It doesn't make much sense if there is only one argument.
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- # [17:13] <antonp> TabAtkins__: it'll take too long to elaborate!
- # [17:13] <@Bert> (I don't understand any(), it's whether an element has a certain descendamnt, isnt it? so matches() is fine, or has() )
- # [17:14] <Zakim> +BradK
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- # [17:14] <antonp> fantasai: originally the opposite of 'not' which only takes one argument
- # [17:14] <Zakim> + +1.905.607.aaee
- # [17:14] <jdovey> zakim, aaee is me
- # [17:14] <Zakim> +jdovey; got it
- # [17:14] <antonp> fantasai gives examples
- # [17:15] <antonp> fantasai: I think any doesn't make sense when there's only one argument inside it, whereas matches does.
- # [17:16] <antonp> TabAtkins__: I'm comfortable with that argument
- # [17:16] <antonp> SimonSapin: I agree with that argument too
- # [17:16] <antonp> TabAtkins__: common case will be multi-argument, so not sure of relevance tho
- # [17:16] <antonp> glazou: lots of docs on the web already describes 'matches'
- # [17:17] <antonp> ... I don't think 'any' is best choice, even though 'matches' isn't perfect
- # [17:17] <tantek> but aren't there more documents that actually use :any(-of) ?
- # [17:17] <tantek> documents trump documentation right?
- # [17:17] <antonp> TabAtkins__: doc exists for 'any' as well though
- # [17:17] * fantasai is ok with either name, as long as we've considered this and agree its better in all cases
- # [17:17] <tantek> seems like an easy opportunity to agree with web authors
- # [17:17] * fantasai or at least better on balance
- # [17:17] <antonp> glazou: matches with a group of selectors means you match against any of the selectors
- # [17:18] <tantek> if we can go either way (can live with), then why not go with what web developers are asking for?
- # [17:18] <tantek> (which seems to be :any)
- # [17:18] <antonp> ... so don't think that 'any' gains us something semantic that was missing
- # [17:18] <glazou> tantek, speak up!
- # [17:18] <tantek> zakim, unmute tantek
- # [17:18] <Zakim> Tantek should no longer be muted
- # [17:19] <antonp> tantek: people don't have strong opinions. Web Devs lean towards 'any' or 'any-of'(?). Let's listen to that feedback since we are on the fence
- # [17:19] <@Bert> So selector1:matches(selector2) is an element that matches both selector1 and selector2? Then it is maybe an :and()...
- # [17:20] <@leaverou> Bert: the most common case is when you have multiple arguments and it works as OR
- # [17:20] <antonp> fantasai: if we present it to the webdev community, we should use the single-argument case as an example
- # [17:20] <antonp> tantek: we should indicate the two leading options: any, and any-of
- # [17:21] <antonp> fantasai: I'll send an e-mail
- # [17:21] <@Bert> A:matches(B, C) = an element that matches (A and B) or (A and C). Hmm, that is not an easy logical primitive...
- # [17:21] <antonp> tantek: and we can reassess next week
- # [17:21] <tantek> zakim, mute tantek
- # [17:21] <Zakim> Tantek should now be muted
- # [17:21] <antonp> TOPIC: Reissue css3-values CR?
- # [17:21] <@leaverou> Bert: more like A && (B || C)
- # [17:22] * Quits: smfr (~smfr@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 60 seconds)
- # [17:22] <antonp> TabAtkins__: Editors are not aware of any new issues beyond the one that someone brought up today; let us know very soon if there are any!
- # [17:22] <fantasai> Bert: It's A:matches(S) where S is a selector
- # [17:22] <antonp> TOPIC: css-text-decorations to CR?
- # [17:22] <SimonSapin> Bert, the comma is OR, joining simple selectors without whitespace or separator is AND, :matches is just grouping
- # [17:22] <fantasai> Bert: Similarly a:not(S)
- # [17:22] <@Bert> A:matches(B, C) == A:matches(B), A:matches(C)
- # [17:23] <fantasai> Bert: The comma is part of the selector
- # [17:23] <fantasai> Bert: it means whatever it usually means
- # [17:23] * @Bert sorry, we should talk about th enext topic :-)
- # [17:23] <antonp> fantasai: i18n had things they wanted to discuss; wait to see if they're ok. They had no call last week
- # [17:24] <antonp> TabAtkins__: So wait for their approval?
- # [17:24] <antonp> fantasai: yeah, or else go to CR and tweak it based on their feedback - given that the call takes a month to schedule it seems ;-)
- # [17:24] <glazou> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-text-decor-3/issues-lc-2013
- # [17:24] <antonp> Bert: I couldn't find the document; link led to 404
- # [17:24] <antonp> <confusion about URLs>
- # [17:25] <antonp> fantasai: dbaron has an issue he wanted to talk about
- # [17:25] <antonp> glazou: Issue 6?
- # [17:25] <antonp> TabAtkins__: wait for i18n and dbaron
- # [17:25] <antonp> TOPIC: Shadow DOM
- # [17:25] <antonp> glazou: spec starts being used by lots of other specs in and out of our WG, as a way to specify widgets etc
- # [17:26] <glazou> @host + CSS bits
- # [17:26] <antonp> glazou: we need to evaluate that stuff
- # [17:26] <antonp> ..: TabAtkins__ what is ETA, implementation report, rec track etc
- # [17:27] <antonp> TabAtkins__: I'm directly involved but not necessarily the right person
- # [17:27] <antonp> ...: I e-mailed the WG last Nov about shadow dom
- # [17:27] <Zakim> -glenn
- # [17:27] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Mar/0283.html
- # [17:28] <antonp> ... first: the @host rule. Stylesheets inside a web component inside shadow dom are scoped to that shadow dom; can think about it as a separate context
- # [17:28] <antonp> Stylesheets inside and outside cannot cross the boundary
- # [17:28] <Zakim> +glenn
- # [17:28] <antonp> ... C1ommon to want
- # [17:28] * plinss sets mode: -b nvdbleek!*@*
- # [17:28] <antonp> .. to style the shadow dom differently in certain situation
- # [17:28] <antonp> @host allows to relax constraint
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- # [17:29] <glazou> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webcomponents/raw-file/tip/spec/shadow/index.html#host-at-rule
- # [17:29] <antonp> ... we were considering @global which takes a scoped stylesheet and relaxes it
- # [17:29] <antonp> ... shadow dom allows you take elements from the DOM and distribute them ??
- # [17:30] <antonp> < TabAtkins__ gives example >
- # [17:30] <antonp> ... we introduced a ::distributed pseudo-element ... distributed to a distribution point ...
- # [17:31] <SimonSapin> ACTION on me: ask about @host grammar: ruleset vs. declarations https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webcomponents/raw-file/tip/spec/shadow/index.html#host-at-rule
- # [17:31] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
- # [17:31] <trackbot> Error finding 'on'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/users>.
- # [17:31] <SimonSapin> ACTION me: ask about @host grammar: ruleset vs. declarations https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webcomponents/raw-file/tip/spec/shadow/index.html#host-at-rule
- # [17:31] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
- # [17:31] <trackbot> Error finding 'me'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/users>.
- # [17:31] * RRSAgent records action 1
- # [17:31] <SimonSapin> ACTION SimonSapin: ask about @host grammar: ruleset vs. declarations https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webcomponents/raw-file/tip/spec/shadow/index.html#host-at-rule
- # [17:31] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
- # [17:31] * RRSAgent records action 2
- # [17:31] <trackbot> Error finding 'SimonSapin'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/users>.
- # [17:31] <SimonSapin> oh well
- # [17:31] <antonp> ... we added ::shadow which works in the opposite way from ::distributed
- # [17:31] <fantasai> ACTION Sapin: ask about @host grammar: ruleset vs. declarations
- # [17:31] * RRSAgent records action 3
- # [17:31] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
- # [17:31] <trackbot> Created ACTION-550 - Ask about @host grammar: ruleset vs. declarations [on Simon Sapin - due 2013-03-27].
- # [17:32] <SimonSapin> thanks fantasai
- # [17:32] <antonp> glazou: your pseudo-element makes sense, similar to ?? in Mozilla
- # [17:32] <antonp> .. @host selects element in shadow host, but you cannot write a rule whose selectors are matching elements in the shadow host and shadow dom?
- # [17:32] <antonp> TabAtkins__: yes you can
- # [17:32] <antonp> glazou: ok, that's more powerful than the Mozilla pseudo
- # [17:33] <glazou> s/??/-moz-bound-element
- # [17:33] <antonp> glazou: the whole thing makes sense now! Much better
- # [17:33] <antonp> glazou: Should these bits remain in that doc, or should that shadow-dom be joint work between webapps and us?
- # [17:33] <antonp> TabAtkins__: it's unofficially joint already
- # [17:34] <antonp> ...: I don't mind either way
- # [17:34] <plh> q+
- # [17:34] * Zakim sees plh on the speaker queue
- # [17:34] * fantasai doesn't think TabAtkins working on something makes it joint with CSS, just makes it joint with Tab ;)
- # [17:34] <antonp> glazou: Members: is it ok to invest time in this in the group, if it's not in the charter?
- # [17:34] <@plinss> ack next
- # [17:34] * Zakim sees plh at the head of the speaker queue
- # [17:34] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
- # [17:35] <antonp> plh: The good thing about one single spec is that it's easier to assimilate
- # [17:35] <antonp> plh: will be a joint effort between webapps, us and HTML
- # [17:35] <antonp> TabAtkins__: doing it joint won't be a big effort
- # [17:36] <antonp> TabAtkins__: I'm not currently acting as an informal co-editor
- # [17:36] <glenn> glenn: maybe we could propose a co-editor from CSSWG to contribute (eyeballs, etc)
- # [17:36] <antonp> glazou: Would dimitri be prepared to join our WG for purposes of formally making the spec joint?
- # [17:37] <antonp> plh: Best to use TabAtkins__ ?
- # [17:37] <antonp> glazou: OK
- # [17:37] <antonp> glazou: @host with new pseudo relies on the fact that in the new grammar the pseudo doesn't need to be in last position
- # [17:37] <antonp> TabAtkins__: actually, no. Not relevant
- # [17:37] <antonp> ...: do you have an example?
- # [17:37] <plh> q+
- # [17:37] * Zakim sees plh on the speaker queue
- # [17:38] <antonp> ??: boundary of light and dark CSS; if the light css defines a ?? style, can the dark css refer to it?
- # [17:38] <antonp> TabAtkins__: yes
- # [17:38] * plh thinks that was Alan
- # [17:38] <glazou> s/??/stearns
- # [17:38] <antonp> SimonSapin: scope is only about selectors?
- # [17:38] <antonp> TabAtkins__: yes
- # [17:38] <glazou> ack plh
- # [17:38] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
- # [17:38] <glazou> q+
- # [17:38] * Zakim sees glazou on the speaker queue
- # [17:39] <glazou> q-
- # [17:39] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
- # [17:39] <stearns> s/?? style/counter style/
- # [17:39] <antonp> plh: link to that draft from css4-selectors draft? Should all selectors be listed in one doc?
- # [17:39] <antonp> TabAtkins__: I think it's reasonable to have a link. c.f. values and units
- # [17:39] * fantasai notes that Selectors 4 does not define pseudo elements.
- # [17:39] <antonp> TabAtkins__: plh, glazou : all agree
- # [17:40] * plh oh, so which spec defines pseudo elements?
- # [17:40] * plh if any
- # [17:40] <antonp> ACTION: TabAtkins__ to ping the WG whenever Dimitri finishes the edits related to CSS
- # [17:40] * RRSAgent records action 4
- # [17:40] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
- # [17:40] <trackbot> Error finding 'TabAtkins__'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/users>.
- # [17:40] <SimonSapin> so, should Selectors 4 also link to css4-pseudos, css3-ui, and anything that adds selectors?
- # [17:41] <antonp> ??: select a custom component based on a media query?
- # [17:41] <fantasai> SimonSapin, informatively, probably would be a good idea
- # [17:41] <fantasai> s/??/Alan
- # [17:41] <SimonSapin> fantasai, yes, informatively
- # [17:41] <antonp> TabAtkins__: we don't have anything for that. Can do it right now using JS version of the API. There's nothing declarative right now
- # [17:41] <glazou> fantasai, SimonSapin : agreed
- # [17:42] <antonp> Alan: in the compoonent itself, the dark css could have a mq ...
- # [17:42] <antonp> <Alan and TabAtkins__ discuss>
- # [17:42] <antonp> glazou: @host - contains only style rules right now. Why not nested @-rules?
- # [17:43] <antonp> TabAtkins__: spec currently has old version of @host. Only allows compound selectors
- # [17:43] <antonp> ...: grammar production will be similar to stuff defined in conditionals, will allow arbitrary nesting
- # [17:43] <antonp> TOPIC: Grid Layout
- # [17:44] <antonp> plinss: publish WD?
- # [17:44] <antonp> TabAtkins__: we've switched over grid positioning properties into line-based properties. We think it's complete enough to be a WD
- # [17:44] <stearns> +1 to publish
- # [17:44] <antonp> fantasai: to avoid confusion, let's go through a couple of the issues
- # [17:45] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Mar/0182.html
- # [17:45] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Mar/0184.html
- # [17:45] <antonp> <TabAtkins__ explains the issue - see pasted URL>
- # [17:46] <antonp> <TabAtkins__ describes potentially confusing syntax>
- # [17:46] <Zakim> -SimonSapin
- # [17:46] <antonp> glazou: I like the proposal
- # [17:46] <SteveZ> +1
- # [17:46] <antonp> TabAtkins__: matches programming languages such as Python
- # [17:47] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Mar/0266.html
- # [17:47] <antonp> plinss: -1 means last line?
- # [17:47] <antonp> TabAtkins__: correct.
- # [17:47] <Zakim> +SimonSapin
- # [17:47] <fantasai> (this is issues 1 / 2 in that list)
- # [17:47] <antonp> Bert: what happened to ??-area property?
- # [17:47] <antonp> TabAtkins__: it's still there
- # [17:47] <antonp> plinss: still some discrepancy about conflating line names and area names, but I see that's flagged as an issue
- # [17:48] <@Bert> s/??-area/grid-area/
- # [17:48] <antonp> fantasai: Can we deal with ordering issue?
- # [17:48] <Zakim> -krit
- # [17:48] <antonp> plinss: [...]
- # [17:49] <antonp> TabAtkins__: it may still affect z-index, but otherwise yes.
- # [17:49] <antonp> RESOLVED:
- # [17:49] <antonp> Have order affect auto-placement and z-index in grid, just as it does in flexbox]
- # [17:50] <antonp> RESOLVED:
- # [17:50] <TabAtkins__> RESOLVED: line numbers always count from the before/start edge, negative numbers count from the end/after edge.
- # [17:50] <antonp> TabAtkins__: I wanted to point people to the abspos section of the spec; it looked like it was easy to get abspos to be useful
- # [17:51] <antonp> ...: please review
- # [17:51] <antonp> plinss: what about left/right/top/bottom?
- # [17:51] <antonp> TabAtkins__: they respond to the containing block
- # [17:52] <antonp> rossen: Can we have a week to go through issues and give feedback?
- # [17:52] <antonp> TabAtkins__, plinss : that's fine
- # [17:53] <antonp> TOPIC: Flexbox Issues
- # [17:53] <glazou> FWIW, I have now a basic layout editor based on the most recent flexbox spec
- # [17:53] <antonp> TabAtkins__: Are Rossen et al happy with the changes we made to address Rossen's issue?
- # [17:53] <fantasai> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-flexbox/issues-cr-2012
- # [17:53] * Parts: leif (~leif@public.cloak) (leif)
- # [17:53] <glazou> http://lockerz.com/s/287452841
- # [17:53] <antonp> TabAtkins__: about stretching elements
- # [17:53] <fantasai> issue 8
- # [17:53] * trackbot doesn't understand that ISSUE command.
- # [17:53] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Oct/0781.html
- # [17:53] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Dec/0040.html
- # [17:54] <fantasai> nm
- # [17:54] <fantasai> 12
- # [17:54] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Dec/0251.html
- # [17:54] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Mar/0260.html
- # [17:55] <antonp> TabAtkins__: orthogonal flow issue: resolve it in a similar way to multicol, to get good behaviour. Current spec is terrible
- # [17:55] <antonp> fantasai: please review, everyone!
- # [17:56] <antonp> fantasai: Defining intrinsic sizing on flexbox made a lot of issues fall out correctly
- # [17:56] <fantasai> fantasai: we had missed defining intrinsic sizing of flex containers; now that that's defined, we think the spec works for these cases.
- # [17:56] <Zakim> -glenn
- # [17:57] <Zakim> -Plh
- # [17:57] <antonp> plinss: Bye everyone
- # [17:57] <Zakim> -Tantek
- # [17:57] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
- # [17:57] <Zakim> -Stearns
- # [17:57] <Zakim> -hober
- # [17:57] <Zakim> -smfr
- # [17:57] <Zakim> -nvdbleek
- # [17:57] <Zakim> -BradK
- # [17:57] <Zakim> -SteveZ
- # [17:57] <Zakim> -djackson
- # [17:57] <Zakim> -jdovey
- # [17:57] <Zakim> -plinss
- # [17:57] * Parts: dael (~djackson@public.cloak) (Leaving...)
- # [17:57] <Zakim> -SimonSapin
- # [17:57] <Zakim> -fantasai
- # [17:57] <Zakim> -glazou
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- # [17:57] <Zakim> -koji
- # [17:57] <Zakim> -antonp
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- # [17:57] <Zakim> -TabAtkins__
- # [17:57] <Zakim> -Bert
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- # [17:57] <Zakim> -Lea
- # [17:57] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
- # [17:57] <Zakim> Attendees were +1.858.354.aaaa, plinss, glazou, krit, djackson, glenn, +1.619.846.aabb, antonp, smfr, hober, fantasai, Stearns, nvdbleek, Bert, SimonSapin, Plh, +1.832.797.aacc,
- # [17:57] <Zakim> ... +1.832.797.aadd, TabAtkins__, Tantek, koji, Lea, Rossen, SteveZ, BradK, +1.905.607.aaee, jdovey
- # [17:57] * Parts: smfr (~smfr@public.cloak) (smfr)
- # [17:57] <glazou> thanks for shadow dom explanations, TabAtkins_
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- # [18:01] <glazou> florian, a bit late
- # [18:01] * @Bert fixed the cyclic link at http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-text-decor/. Still doesn't understand why it only failed today, when the directory seems to have been renamed in Mercurial 5 months ago already...
- # [18:02] <fantasai> RRSAgent: pointer
- # [18:02] <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2013/03/20-css-irc#T17-06-21
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- # [18:02] <fantasai> djackson: http://www.w3.org/2013/03/20-css-irc.txt
- # [18:03] * florian Zakim won't let me in
- # [18:03] <glazou> florian, conf call just *ended*
- # [18:03] <glazou> DST time in US...
- # [18:03] <@Bert> Zakim is in Boston, only knows the Boston clock :-)
- # [18:03] <glazou> poor Zakim
- # [18:03] <florian> Peter's mail said 6pm paris time
- # [18:04] <fantasai> djackson: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/0SVZi6YYsY
- # [18:04] <glazou> florian, argl
- # [18:04] <glazou> copy paste error
- # [18:04] <glazou> the real agenda in www-style says 5pm...
- # [18:04] <florian> grrrr
- # [18:04] <florian> Checked the wrong mail
- # [18:04] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Mar/0336.html
- # [18:04] <glazou> yep
- # [18:04] <fantasai> djackson: "\d\d:\d\d:\d\d " replace with nothing
- # [18:04] * Quits: SteveZ (~chatzilla@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 60 seconds)
- # [18:05] <florian> And I did check specifically, since I wondered if we were still in DST mismatch time
- # [18:05] <glazou> I think we make the move this coming week-end, not sure
- # [18:05] <florian> Oh well, more time for dinner then
- # [18:05] <glazou> eh
- # [18:06] <florian> Sorry for failling to show up
- # [18:06] <glazou> np
- # [18:07] <@Bert> Next week we're still one hour off. In April it's at 6 again.
- # [18:07] <SimonSapin> glazou, florian, next week is also at 17:00
- # [18:07] <fantasai> djackson:
- # [18:07] <fantasai> djackson: http://collabedit.com/mptt2
- # [18:07] <glazou> SimonSapin, sigh
- # [18:07] <glazou> ok
- # [18:07] <SimonSapin> lightning (calendar) gets this right
- # [18:07] <florian> Good to know, thanks
- # [18:07] <SimonSapin> (each event can have its own timezone)
- # [18:08] <florian> Which time zone should be the base for this one? PST?
- # [18:08] <SimonSapin> boston
- # [18:08] <SimonSapin> aka America/New York
- # [18:09] <SimonSapin> America/New_York in the tz database
- # [18:09] <liam> or Canada/Toronto if you prefer :-)
- # [18:11] <SimonSapin> dbaron would know the exact answer :)
- # [18:12] <glazou> lol
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- # [18:17] <fantasai> djackson: http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/
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- # [18:53] <fantasai> djackson: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/
- # [18:53] <fantasai> djackson: http://www.w3.org/blog/CSS/2013/03/15/resolutions-84/
- # [18:54] <fantasai> djackson: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Mar/0355.html
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- # [19:01] <fantasai> djackson: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Feb/0474.html
- # [19:01] <fantasai> djackson: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Feb/0472.html
- # [19:01] <fantasai> djackson: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Feb/0471.html
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- # [21:14] <pjrm> Are there any public implementations of css-print ?
- # [21:15] <pjrm> The recently updated CSS print profile requires behaviour that conflicts with css3-page in treatment of the 'pages' counter.
- # [21:16] <pjrm> I was wondering what the compatibility issues are and what a good solution would be.
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- # [21:31] <SimonSapin> pjrm: how is it conflicting?
- # [21:32] <SimonSapin> pjrm: AFAIK some printers are based on css-print
- # [21:32] <pjrm> css-print requires that a counter named 'pages' be modifiable, whereas css3-page requires that it not be modifiable.
- # [21:33] <pjrm> The css-print requirement was introduced before either 'page' or 'pages' had special meaning in css3-page.
- # [21:35] <SimonSapin> I don’t know how much of an issue this is
- # [21:35] <SimonSapin> fantasai?
- # [21:35] <pjrm> It just means that a css3-page implementation can't be used as a conforming css-print driver.
- # [21:36] <pjrm> Which seems unfortunate.
- # [21:37] <SimonSapin> I don’t know if anyone really cares about css-print nowadays
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- # [21:38] <pjrm> I was getting that impression from the way fantasai announced the updated css-print document, which was once a CR but now a note.
- # [21:39] <SimonSapin> is was updated recently to fix references and make it a note but I don’t think anyone wants to work on it, at least
- # [21:40] <SimonSapin> still, if fantasai doesn’t answer here feel free to bring it up on www-style
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- # [21:51] <pjrm> Re vw/vh units: one approach would be to delay to give glazou a chance to develop css-page-4, which he intends to be closer to what browsers would support, and see what definition makes sense in that context. The intent would be to avoid having the definition of vw/vh change between near-future css3-page and css-page-4, if that does work out.
- # [21:52] <pjrm> It depends how pressing the use cases for vw/vh in print are, or what needs to be done to meet those use cases.
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- # [22:06] <SimonSapin> I think glazou wants to focus and headers, footers, footnotes, etc. I don’t think css4-page will change much, if anything, regarding the page size or viewport units
- # [22:09] <SimonSapin> Honestly I don’t think that viewport units have great use cases in paged media, especially if @page size is not 'auto'. But both features separately do have use cases, so we need to define how they interact. It would be silly to just supporting vw when switching from screen to print in the same browser
- # [22:10] <SimonSapin> to just stop* supporting
- # [22:15] <pjrm> he may well use some different "container" for those headers & footers, e.g. using something from css3-regions or css3-page-template/, and there might be existing rules about what vw would mean in the context of one of those containers.
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- # [22:32] * Quits: SteveZ (~chatzilla@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 60 seconds)
- # [22:56] * Quits: krit (~krit@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
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- # [23:27] * Joins: macpherson (~macpherson@public.cloak)
- # [23:28] * Quits: plh (plehegar@public.cloak) ("Leaving")
- # [23:35] * Quits: shanestephens (~shanestephens@public.cloak) (shanestephens)
- # [23:41] * Quits: antonp (~Thunderbird@public.cloak) (antonp)
- # [23:42] * Joins: shanestephens (~shanestephens@public.cloak)
- # [23:45] * Quits: macpherson (~macpherson@public.cloak) ("This computer has gone to sleep")
- # Session Close: Thu Mar 21 00:00:00 2013
The end :)