/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2013-03-27 / end

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# Session Start: Wed Mar 27 00:00:00 2013
# Session Ident: #css
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# [00:55] <fantasai> TabAtkins_: Why do so many people put prefixed flexbox syntax in their style sheets?
# [00:56] <SimonSapin> fantasai: habit of prefixing new stuff? (I don’t actually know)
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# [16:24] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/03/27-css-irc
# [16:24] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
# [16:24] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 40 minutes
# [16:24] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
# [16:24] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
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# [16:29] <glazou> Regrets: hober, molly, TabAtkins_ , SimonPieters
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# [16:59] <glazou> Zakim, code?
# [16:59] <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), glazou
# [16:59] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
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# [17:00] <Zakim> +??P31
# [17:00] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
# [17:00] <glazou> Zakim, ??P31 is me
# [17:00] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
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# [17:01] <florian> Zakim, [IPcaller] has me
# [17:01] <Zakim> +florian; got it
# [17:01] <Zakim> +BradK
# [17:01] <plh> regrets for the call. overloaded :(
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# [17:01] <glazou> ok
# [17:01] <glazou> Regrets: +plh
# [17:01] <glazou> Regrets: hober, molly, TabAtkins_ , SimonPieters
# [17:02] * glazou wonders if plh does not handle too many difficult WGs
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# [17:02] <Zakim> +plinss
# [17:03] <Zakim> +krit
# [17:03] <Dael> zakim, IPcaller.a is me
# [17:03] <Zakim> +Dael; got it
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# [17:03] <Zakim> +glenn
# [17:03] <Zakim> -glazou
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# [17:03] <Zakim> +??P49
# [17:03] <Zakim> +??P9
# [17:03] <glazou> Zakim, ??P9 is me
# [17:03] <Zakim> + +93192aaaa
# [17:03] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
# [17:04] <{Darktears}> Zakim, ??P49 is me
# [17:04] <Zakim> +{Darktears}; got it
# [17:04] <antonp> Zakim, aaaa is me
# [17:04] <Zakim> +antonp; got it
# [17:04] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
# [17:04] <Zakim> +nvdbleek
# [17:04] <glazou> Zakim, who is noisy?
# [17:04] <Zakim> glazou, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: antonp (4%), [Microsoft] (50%)
# [17:05] <Zakim> -krit
# [17:05] <Zakim> + +1.206.675.aabb
# [17:05] <Zakim> +Bert
# [17:05] <Zakim> +dbaron
# [17:05] <glazou> Zakim, [Microsoft] has israel
# [17:05] <Zakim> +israel; got it
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# [17:05] <sgalineau> Zakim, aabb is me
# [17:05] <Zakim> +sgalineau; got it
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# [17:05] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
# [17:05] <Zakim> +fantasai
# [17:06] <Zakim> +Krit
# [17:06] <Zakim> +krit.a
# [17:06] <Rossen> zakim, microsoft has me
# [17:06] <Zakim> +Rossen; got it
# [17:06] <Zakim> +smfr
# [17:06] <Zakim> +Stearns
# [17:06] <rhauck> zakim, krit.a is me
# [17:06] <Zakim> +rhauck; got it
# [17:06] <krit> rhauck: sure?
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# [17:07] <glazou> Zakim, who is noisy?
# [17:07] <Zakim> -Krit
# [17:07] <Zakim> +Lea
# [17:07] <Zakim> glazou, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: sgalineau (27%)
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# [17:07] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.aa]
# [17:07] <glazou> Zakim, mute sgalineau
# [17:07] <Zakim> sgalineau should now be muted
# [17:07] * sgalineau sorry, just muted my phone
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# [17:07] <glazou> Zakim, unmute sgalineau
# [17:07] <Zakim> sgalineau should no longer be muted
# [17:07] <Zakim> +Krit
# [17:07] <JohnJansen> Zakim, Microsoft has JohnJansen
# [17:07] <Zakim> +JohnJansen; got it
# [17:08] <Zakim> +ChrisL
# [17:08] <glazou> Zakim, who is on the phone?
# [17:08] <Zakim> On the phone I see [IPcaller], BradK, SimonSapin, Dael, plinss, glenn, {Darktears}, glazou, antonp, [Microsoft], nvdbleek, sgalineau, Bert, dbaron, fantasai, [Microsoft.a], rhauck,
# [17:08] <Zakim> ... smfr, Stearns, Lea, [Microsoft.aa], Krit, ChrisL
# [17:08] <Zakim> [IPcaller] has florian
# [17:08] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has JohnJansen
# [17:08] <Zakim> +SteveZ
# [17:08] * JohnJansen slaps sgalineau around a bit with a large fishbot
# [17:08] <glazou> eheh
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# [17:08] <antonp> ScribeNick: antonp
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# [17:09] <Dael> yes
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# [17:09] <Dael> having some audio problem so can't talk
# [17:09] <Dael> Okay, thank you
# [17:09] <antonp> TOPIC: extra items for agenda
# [17:09] <antonp> glazou: no
# [17:09] <antonp> TOPIC: Publications
# [17:09] <dbaron> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Mar/0600.html
# [17:10] <antonp> glazou: Request from dbaron to publish FPWD of css3-overflow
# [17:10] <antonp> dbaron: I added Section 2
# [17:10] <antonp> ... Would be great if others could read that
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# [17:11] <antonp> florian: I like the draft but have issues with overflow-x/y and so I'd like to review that section to flag possible problems
# [17:11] <antonp> ?: has there been any implementation activity on this?
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# [17:11] <antonp> ??: Where does this sit in the group's priority list, charter etc?
# [17:12] <Zakim> +jdovey
# [17:12] <stearns> s/??/stearns/
# [17:12] <antonp> florian: I wonder how much interest in Opera there is
# [17:12] <antonp> glazou: Old charter expires in Sept, and this isn't currently charter
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# [17:12] <antonp> ...: We occassionally enforce the deliverables in the charter
# [17:13] <antonp> dbaron: This is mostly moving things from other docs into this one
# [17:13] <antonp> ...: which is not generally a charter problem
# [17:13] <antonp> ChrisL: That's correct
# [17:13] <antonp> dbaron: The new thing [fragment overflow?] is new but is an alternative to something that already exists in another doc
# [17:14] <antonp> glazou: Are you OK with a week for the WG to review?
# [17:14] <antonp> dbaron: yes
# [17:14] <antonp> glazou: What is the priority of this spec, to you?
# [17:14] <antonp> dbaron: I've heard implementers say that they are interested
# [17:14] <antonp> florian: I'd like this to make progress, though I'm not implementing anything
# [17:14] <stearns> whether overflow:fragments is an alternative is debatable - I consider it an addition
# [17:14] <antonp> Rossen: Is this targetting various layout models, not just block?
# [17:15] <antonp> ...: A lot of text is copied from css21 but it should be generalized
# [17:15] <antonp> dbaron: It applies to block and flex containers. It's intentional that it doesn't apply to eg inline
# [17:15] <antonp> Rossen: Grid is a valid target spec
# [17:15] <nvdbleek2> zakim, mute me
# [17:15] <Zakim> nvdbleek should now be muted
# [17:15] <antonp> <speaking at once>
# [17:16] <antonp> fantasai: Grid containers are defined in the grid spec right now
# [17:16] <antonp> dbaron: OK
# [17:16] <antonp> florian: You specified overflow-x/y but don't carry over the definition of overflow-style - yet there is overlap. Although I don't like overflow-style we should avoid overlap
# [17:16] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.aaa]
# [17:16] <arronei> zakim, microsoft has me
# [17:16] <Zakim> +arronei; got it
# [17:17] <antonp> dbaron: overflow-style is pretty much dead as far as I can tell
# [17:17] <antonp> florian: overflow-paged?
# [17:17] <antonp> dbaron: yes
# [17:17] <antonp> florian: <something about Opera>. Probably nobody
# [17:17] <antonp> Bert: overflow-style came from Marquee spec
# [17:17] <antonp> ChrisL: sounds fairly dead
# [17:18] * sgalineau iirc IE10 uses overflow-style to trigger auto-hide scrollbars
# [17:18] <antonp> Bert: We introduced it to allow various different ways of overflowing, not just Opera's but things like marquees and thumbnails
# [17:18] <antonp> glazou: I don't think this discussion is relevant to the current topic
# [17:18] <antonp> florian: (It's a good discussion)
# [17:18] <antonp> ...: we should have it at some point.
# [17:19] <Zakim> -Lea
# [17:19] <fantasai> I think fragments should not be an overflow-style, but paged vs. scroll should be
# [17:19] <antonp> glazou: 1 week for WG to review, then decision next week?
# [17:19] <antonp> dbaron: OK
# [17:19] <antonp> ACTION on everyone: review doc
# [17:19] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
# [17:19] <trackbot> Error finding 'on'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/users>.
# [17:19] <antonp> TOPIC: Grid Layout (followup from last week)
# [17:20] <antonp> glazou: Rossen wanted a week to review the doc
# [17:20] <antonp> Rossen: We're OK overall with going forward with a publishing a new WD
# [17:20] <antonp> ...: I have feedback, but can use mailing list for that
# [17:20] <antonp> ... No blockers for now
# [17:20] <antonp> glazou: Any objections to advancing the doc?
# [17:20] <Zakim> +Lea
# [17:20] <antonp> RESOLVED: Publish grid layout spec
# [17:21] <antonp> TOPIC: issue 6 for css3 text decoration
# [17:21] <antonp> dbaron: I have a better URL for Issue 6 other than the one in the Disposition of Comments from yesterday
# [17:21] <dbaron> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Mar/0529.html
# [17:21] <dbaron> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Mar/index.html#msg534
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# [17:21] <antonp> dbaron: I also sent a bunch of other messages <see second URL>
# [17:22] <antonp> dbaron: I don't quite know how to proceed, given the other issues
# [17:22] <antonp> dbaron: I'd rather discuss on the mailing list; I haven't seen responses to them. Don't know if fantasai agrees
# [17:22] <antonp> fantasai: I haven't seen all of these yet
# [17:23] <antonp> glazou: OK, let's move on
# [17:23] <antonp> TOPIC: vertical % margins and padding on flexbox
# [17:23] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Mar/0143.html
# [17:23] <antonp> dbaron: Not necessarily /from/ me, but I wanted to poke the issue
# [17:23] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Mar/0143.html
# [17:23] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Mar/thread.html#msg143
# [17:23] <antonp> ... people are shipping implementations of flexbox and this is a change proposal
# [17:23] <antonp> ... I'm curious about the status
# [17:24] <antonp> fantasai: When you have margins on a block el, the vert margin (block direction margins) resolve against the size of the container in the inline dimension
# [17:25] <antonp> flexbox doesn't say anything about this being different for flex items, whereas grid does specify that % margins are relative to the same dimension
# [17:25] <antonp> ... so there's an inconsistency
# [17:25] <antonp> ...: for blocks, height of containing block isn't defined, so % margins relative to that wouldn't be defined commonly
# [17:25] <antonp> ...: for flexbox that reasoning doesn't apply so much (nor for grid)
# [17:26] <antonp> s/isn't defined/isn't defined commonly/
# [17:26] <antonp> <fantasai describes flexbox behaviour>
# [17:26] <antonp> glazou: Implementors?
# [17:27] <antonp> dbaron: I'm fine with switching, but it seems odd for different display types to behave differently. I'd prefer to do it sooner rather than later though.
# [17:27] <antonp> Rossen: Matching flexbox behaviour to grid makes sense, will help app developers
# [17:27] <fantasai> fantasai: another issue is that the inconsistency in dimensions is particularly confusing for Flexbox: e.g. for row flexboxes percentage margins would work in the main axis, but for column flex boxes they wouldn't
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# [17:28] <antonp> ... The inconsistency will be overcome by authors soon enough.
# [17:28] <antonp> RESOLVED: We copy the behaviour of % margins/paddings from grid to flexbox
# [17:28] <antonp> TOPIC: media queries and data transfer
# [17:28] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Jan/0434.html
# [17:28] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Jan/0522.html
# [17:29] <antonp> dbaron: ?? raised this is an issue initially. I don't want to solve it today, but again I wanted to poke it.
# [17:29] <stearns> s/??/henri/
# [17:29] <glazou> s/henri/hsivonen
# [17:29] <antonp> dbaron: Lack of a CSS solution is pushing other groups to push HTTP solutions, which I and others don't think is ideal
# [17:30] <antonp> <dbaron explains the issue>
# [17:30] <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
# [17:30] <antonp> dbaron: The proposal is a proposal to add something to HTML, to the LINK element which links to the stylesheet, saying that the stylesheet shouldn't be retrieved [....]
# [17:30] * florian just dropped
# [17:31] <antonp> fantasai: can't we do that by default, that UI shouldn't fetch stylesheets if it thinks it's not used (matched)?
# [17:31] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
# [17:31] * florian is back
# [17:31] <antonp> .... and not loaded into object model unless explicitly requested
# [17:31] <antonp> dbaron: Implementations would be unhappy about doing it for print
# [17:32] <antonp> fantasai: the UI wouldn't download SSs that it knows it's not going to use, but if it thinks it might use the SS then it would load it, at lower priority, but not into the object model until it matched
# [17:32] <antonp> dbaron: device width/height can change when you rotate a mobile device
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# [17:33] <antonp> dbaron: Original design was to make it harder for authors to mess up accidentally
# [17:33] * sgalineau hadn't been confused by dbaron in weeks. All back to normal now.
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# [17:34] <antonp> dbaron: Consider the mail as authoritative
# [17:34] <antonp> ... about the summary/description of the topic
# [17:35] <antonp> dbaron: This is probably and HTML group topic
# [17:35] <antonp> .. but people here should be aware of it
# [17:35] <antonp> florian: Thought/Question: a stylesheet included from within a CSS conditional (supports) should also be deferred?
# [17:36] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [17:36] <fantasai> I'm worried we're going to get "async all the things!" from some authors and "what's an async? i don't know that feature, so my sites don't use it" from others
# [17:36] <fantasai> would be best if the default behavior was more optimal
# [17:36] <fantasai> then force loading or not loading if needed
# [17:36] * Rossen agrees with Elika
# [17:36] <antonp> florian: If we allow 'defer' or whatever on the style element so that it applies to inline style, I'd like it to be compatible for @import inside @supports
# [17:37] <Bert> (I wonder what this does to phishing and privacy. One reason to favor MQ over CC/PP was that MQ can hide the UA's characteristics and user preferences.)
# [17:37] <antonp> florian: Can we put suggestions to the HTML group
# [17:37] <antonp> dbaron: I'll ask Henri to
# [17:37] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Feb/thread.html#msg323
# [17:37] <antonp> TOPIC: CaretPosition.getClientRect() (new API)
# [17:37] <antonp> dbaron: I wanted to seek comments from non-Mozilla people
# [17:38] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Feb/0323.html
# [17:38] <antonp> dbaron: CaretPosition is interesting; it usually corresponds to a collapsed range, but allows to get caret position from inside input or text area
# [17:38] <antonp> glazou: makes sense
# [17:39] <antonp> smfr: Fine for me
# [17:39] <Zakim> -Lea
# [17:39] <antonp> Rossen: I'm still catching up on the topic, sorry
# [17:39] <antonp> Rossen: if this isn't urgent I'd like to involve someone else and get back to you
# [17:39] <antonp> dbaron: That's fine, but I wanted to poke it
# [17:40] <antonp> glazou: let's revisit later when we have Rossen's input
# [17:40] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Mar/0573.html
# [17:40] <Zakim> +Lea
# [17:40] <stearns> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Mar/0414.html
# [17:40] <antonp> TOPIC: click events and ::hover styling in styleable fragment containers
# [17:40] <antonp> stearns: I have a long message on the list, with only one response
# [17:41] <antonp> ... main issue: DOM tree, visual box tree; click events and :hover styling propagate only from DOM tree, which leaves out fragment containers
# [17:41] <antonp> ... would be good to apply these to fragment containers
# [17:41] <antonp> ... 4 options
# [17:41] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
# [17:41] <antonp> ... 1. Interleave frag container into event propagation somehow
# [17:41] <antonp> 2. Fork the propagation to have two different propagation chains
# [17:42] <antonp> 3. (Only works for events)
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# [17:42] <antonp> 4. Have a switch: either use the current DOM tree behaviour or with a switch allow you to move up the visual container hierarchy]
# [17:42] <antonp> glazou: I responded, saying I like the 4th solution, especially thinking about pointer events
# [17:43] <antonp> .... solves an old issue about hovering positioned elements too, which exists as a note in the selectors spec
# [17:43] <antonp> stearns: The solution that I put out would only deal with the frag containers, but I suppose it could be extended to this situation too
# [17:44] <antonp> glazou: it's a similar situation
# [17:44] <Zakim> -SimonSapin
# [17:44] <antonp> Rossen: Talking about containing block chain, instead of DOM structure, glazou?
# [17:44] <antonp> glazou: yes
# [17:44] <antonp> Rossen: I can see this potentially being extended to cover both
# [17:44] <antonp> glazou: yes, there's a possibility to extend it.
# [17:44] <Zakim> +SimonSapin
# [17:44] <antonp> ... overall, pointer events strategy seems good
# [17:45] <antonp> dbaron: I'm concerned about CSS properties being changed on event propagation
# [17:45] <antonp> BradK: I don't like switch
# [17:45] <dbaron> s/being changed/changing/
# [17:45] <dbaron> s/changing on/changing/
# [17:45] <sgalineau> baron, doesn't pointer-event do that to some extent already?
# [17:45] <antonp> <stearns refers to example in his mail, about pages>
# [17:46] <fantasai> sgalineau, not really. It changes the geometry of the target only, atm
# [17:46] <sgalineau> fantasai, you can use it to prevent an element from capturing events
# [17:46] <antonp> stearns: I'm happy to try out option 4, unless there's anyone who prefers any of the three previous options
# [17:46] <antonp> fantasai: I'm not DOM or events person but second one looks like it could be OK
# [17:47] <fantasai> I'm sympathetic to dbaron's concern about layering, but I'll also note that propagating through the region parenting is entirely controlled by CSS
# [17:47] <antonp> stearns: 2nd one is about duplicate event which goes up the visual hierarchy
# [17:47] <Zakim> -Lea
# [17:47] <Zakim> -Krit
# [17:47] <antonp> fantasai: concern with 4th one: pointer events changes the geometry with respect to pointer clicks, but doesn't change anything else
# [17:48] <fantasai> sgalineau, That's equivalent to making its geometry match the empty set of points
# [17:48] <antonp> sgalineau: You're changing which way it's routing
# [17:48] <antonp> fantasai: It's like making it hidden
# [17:48] <antonp> sgalineau: if a different node gets the event, you get a different route
# [17:48] <antonp> fantasai: no
# [17:48] <antonp> sgalineau: yes
# [17:48] <Zakim> +Lea
# [17:49] <fantasai> You're just changing what got hit, not what the routing is after the hit
# [17:49] <sgalineau> disagree; another node behind you gets the event and may not be your parent afaik.
# [17:49] * leaverou sorry about dropping off all the time
# [17:49] <antonp> glazou: there are use cases for web designers
# [17:49] <antonp> glazou: we need a solution.
# [17:50] <fantasai> sgalineau, right, but you didn't hit that because it wasn't "visible". You didn't change the routing of the event bubble chain, you changed its target
# [17:50] <antonp> glazou: Is it OK if stearns starts proposing a solution of some kind, eg based on 4th option?
# [17:50] * fantasai thinks that's fine
# [17:50] <antonp> stearns: I'll post to list saying we're going with option 4. Some of the discussion we've just had should be replicated on the list please
# [17:50] <sgalineau> if a CSS property causes a different element from capture/bubbling then we already are doing this
# [17:50] * BradK wonders if the switch is needed for DOM event propagation, but not for writing selectors
# [17:51] <antonp> RESOLVED: stears to post to list with a solution based on option 4
# [17:51] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Mar/0573.html
# [17:51] <antonp> TOPIC: Changes to offsetParent in styleable fragment containers
# [17:51] <antonp> stearns: Question for named flows and a bit for shadow DOM and its insertion points
# [17:51] <antonp> ...: What are the offset attributes for?
# [17:52] <antonp> Are they for getting some relative position to a box on the page, or is it meant to provide the offsets to the closest visual ancestor which has something to do with the box's position?
# [17:53] <antonp> stearns: DOM structure vs Visual box
# [17:53] <antonp> stearns: I wanted to poke this issue because I didn't get any response on the list
# [17:53] <antonp> smfr: Why do authors use the offset attrs?
# [17:54] <antonp> .. we've talked about adding API allowing point conversion between elements
# [17:54] <antonp> ... if we have that, we don't need offset-top stuff
# [17:54] <antonp> smfr: Maybe we should push for that API
# [17:54] <antonp> We'd have to do something sensible for offset-parent, but doesn't matter too much if implementations differ a bit
# [17:55] <antonp> stearns: I'm ok with the idea that if it's not interoperable anyway then let's not fix it
# [17:55] * antonp is not sure he captured stearns' opinion correctly
# [17:55] <antonp> TOPIC: Reissue css3-values CR?, followup from last week
# [17:55] <glenn> glenn: suggest discussing with roc and boris (zbasky)
# [17:56] <Zakim> -ChrisL
# [17:56] <glazou> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2013JanMar/0349.html
# [17:56] <Ms2ger`> Public link?
# [17:56] <fantasai> Tab and I think it's time to reissue CR on css3-values, since
# [17:56] <fantasai> we've made a few clarifications. They're listed here: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-values/#changes
# [17:56] <fantasai> Let us know if we missed any; I remember Alan mentioned something
# [17:56] <fantasai> and I can't remember if it was one of these or something else. :/
# [17:56] <Ms2ger`> Ta
# [17:56] <SimonSapin> http://www.w3.org/mid/514AD389.8060008@exyr.org
# [17:57] <Zakim> +ChrisL
# [17:57] <glenn> s/zbasky/zbarsky/
# [17:57] <antonp> fantasai: Any other issues to be handled before CR?
# [17:58] <antonp> dbaron: I wonder if viewport units should say that it counts the scrollbars when overflow is scroll, rather than the current cumbersome description
# [17:58] <fantasai> ACTION fantasai clarify interaction of viewport units and scroll
# [17:58] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
# [17:58] <trackbot> Created ACTION-551 - Clarify interaction of viewport units and scroll [on Elika Etemad - due 2013-04-03].
# [17:58] <stearns> I don't remember what my issue might have been
# [17:58] <fantasai> ACTION fantasai Edit in Simon's issue
# [17:58] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
# [17:58] <trackbot> Created ACTION-552 - Edit in Simon's issue [on Elika Etemad - due 2013-04-03].
# [17:58] <antonp> SimonSapin: I'm fine with resolving with last weeks resolution
# [17:58] <antonp> glazou: any objections?
# [17:59] <antonp> RESOLVED: publish new CR for css3-values
# [17:59] <antonp> fantasai: I'll prepare it for Tuesday (doing edits today) and I'll inform the mailing list
# [17:59] <antonp> ..: there'll be space to tweak it between now and next week
# [17:59] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Mar/0275.html
# [17:59] <antonp> TOPIC: Renaming :matches(), followup from last week
# [18:00] <Bert> (I'm offline Monday, but Elika probably doesn't need my help wth the publication anyway :-) )
# [18:00] <antonp> fantasai: SimonSapin_ sent the e-mail that we said someone would send last week
# [18:00] <antonp> glazou: so no resolution right now?
# [18:01] <antonp> SimonSapin: feedback: currently does not allow combinators inside matches, so matches with only one argument isn't very useful
# [18:01] <antonp> selectors4 is concerned with performance, but we can remove that restriction
# [18:01] <antonp> ^ fantasai said the above
# [18:02] <antonp> fantasai: Tab and I discussed the idea of different levels of selector support for this featur
# [18:02] <antonp> glazou: let's defer to mailing list
# [18:02] <antonp> TOPIC: extra stuff
# [18:03] <antonp> glazou: 72 hours e-mail: in case of a decision which has to be made technically on the mailing list, there's a tag in the summary indicating 72 hours for providing objections
# [18:03] * sgalineau expects 72-hour rename emails at Last Call
# [18:03] <antonp> ...: it's a clean way of making a decision to avoid topics dying off
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# [18:04] <antonp> fantasai: Pretty good idea, but don't pull it up with no warning
# [18:04] <antonp> ChrisL: if it's kicked off by a telecon, then we should be ok
# [18:04] <antonp> <general agreement>
# [18:04] <Zakim> -nvdbleek
# [18:05] <antonp> antonp: if we do this, please mention it in the summary of the minutes of the telecon so that it's easy to see that it's happened
# [18:05] <antonp> <general agreement from various speakers>
# [18:05] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.aa]
# [18:05] <Zakim> -sgalineau
# [18:05] <Zakim> -SteveZ
# [18:05] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.aaa]
# [18:05] <Zakim> -BradK
# [18:05] <Zakim> -dbaron
# [18:05] <Zakim> -Stearns
# [18:05] <Zakim> -glazou
# [18:05] <Zakim> -ChrisL
# [18:06] <Zakim> -jdovey
# [18:06] <Zakim> -glenn
# [18:06] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
# [18:06] <Zakim> -antonp
# [18:06] <Zakim> -Lea
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# [18:06] <Zakim> -rhauck
# [18:06] <Zakim> -plinss
# [18:06] <Zakim> -{Darktears}
# [18:06] <Zakim> -Bert
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# [18:06] <Zakim> -Dael
# [18:06] <Zakim> -smfr
# [18:06] <Zakim> -fantasai
# [18:06] <Zakim> -SimonSapin
# [18:06] <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
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# [18:06] <fantasai> ok, so publish grid-layout and css3-values...
# [18:08] * Quits: SteveZ (~chatzilla@public.cloak) ("ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]")
# [18:08] * Quits: Dael (~Dael@public.cloak) ("Bye")
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# [18:11] <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, [Microsoft], in Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
# [18:11] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
# [18:11] <Zakim> Attendees were glazou, florian, BradK, SimonSapin, [IPcaller], plinss, krit, Dael, glenn, +93192aaaa, {Darktears}, antonp, nvdbleek, +1.206.675.aabb, Bert, dbaron, israel,
# [18:11] <Zakim> ... sgalineau, [Microsoft], fantasai, Rossen, smfr, Stearns, rhauck, Lea, JohnJansen, ChrisL, SteveZ, jdovey, arronei
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# [18:44] <glazou> dbaron, will you attend the css3-conditional call?
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# [19:00] <dbaron> glazou, yes
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# [19:00] <glazou> ok thanks
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# [22:08] <TabAtkins__> Yo, fantasai, I think I've finished the first draft of Colors 4.
# [22:10] <stearns> TabAtkins_: fantasai: I'm confused by "A value of ‘auto’ for ‘align-self’ computes to the value of ‘align-items’ on the element's parent, or ‘stretch’ if the element has no parent." in flexbox - how can a flex item have no parent?
# [22:11] <TabAtkins__> If the element isn't part of a flexbox. Setting align-self: auto; on <html> needs to be defined.
# [22:13] <stearns> seems like it only comes up for <html> - if an element has a non-flexbox parent, there's still a value of align-items to refer to
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# [22:18] <TabAtkins__> stearns: Yes, that's correct. We just have to deal with the error case any time we talk about "the parent of an element".
# [22:21] <stearns> ok, thanks
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The end :)