/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2013-05-01 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed May 01 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #css
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  19. # [02:39] <dbaron> hmmm, I'm pretty sure there were some edits I wrote for the float placement rules in CSS 2.1 that aren't in the spec
  20. # [02:40] <dbaron> to address http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Jan/0445.html
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  83. # [17:17] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
  84. # [17:17] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 42 minutes
  85. # [17:17] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
  86. # [17:17] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
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  96. # [17:54] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
  97. # [17:55] <Zakim> +??P3
  98. # [17:55] <glazou> Zakim, ??P3 is me
  99. # [17:55] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
  100. # [17:55] * glazou changes topic to '#css http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013May/0001.html'
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  104. # [17:56] <Zakim> +??P6
  105. # [17:56] <Zakim> +plinss
  106. # [17:56] <leif> Zakim, ??P6 is me
  107. # [17:56] <Zakim> +leif; got it
  108. # [17:56] <glazou> Zakim, mute leif
  109. # [17:56] <Zakim> leif should now be muted
  110. # [17:57] <glazou> Zakim, unmute leif
  111. # [17:57] <Zakim> leif should no longer be muted
  112. # [17:57] <Zakim> +rhauck
  113. # [17:57] <dbaron> could we add September meeting dates/location to the agenda?
  114. # [17:57] <glazou> sure dbaron
  115. # [17:57] <glazou> Zakim, mute leif
  116. # [17:57] <Zakim> leif should now be muted
  117. # [17:57] <Zakim> +??P31
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  120. # [17:58] <leif> zakim, unmute me
  121. # [17:58] <Zakim> leif should no longer be muted
  122. # [17:58] <krit> zakim, rhauck is me
  123. # [17:58] <Zakim> +krit; got it
  124. # [17:58] <Zakim> + +33.4.26.01.aaaa
  125. # [17:58] <Zakim> +antonp
  126. # [17:58] <Zakim> +Stearns
  127. # [17:58] <leif> zakim, mute me
  128. # [17:58] <Zakim> leif should now be muted
  129. # [17:59] <SimonSapin> Zakim, aaaa is me
  130. # [17:59] <Zakim> +SimonSapin; got it
  131. # [17:59] * plh zakim, call plh-work
  132. # [17:59] * Zakim ok, plh; the call is being made
  133. # [17:59] <SimonSapin> Zakim, mute me
  134. # [17:59] <Zakim> +dael
  135. # [17:59] <Zakim> SimonSapin should now be muted
  136. # [17:59] <Zakim> +Plh
  137. # [17:59] <Zakim> + +1.415.615.aabb
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  140. # [17:59] <glazou> Zakim, aabb is rhauck
  141. # [17:59] <Zakim> +rhauck; got it
  142. # [18:00] * plh regrets for the next 2 weeks from me. on the road unfortunately.
  143. # [18:00] <glazou> plh, noted, thanks
  144. # [18:00] <Zakim> + +1.206.675.aacc
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  149. # [18:01] <Zakim> + +1.416.800.aadd
  150. # [18:01] <Zakim> +glenn
  151. # [18:01] <Zakim> +Lea
  152. # [18:01] <jdovey> Zakim, aadd is me
  153. # [18:01] <Zakim> +jdovey; got it
  154. # [18:01] <leaverou> Zakim, who is noisy?
  155. # [18:01] * hober regrets, covering the dnt call today
  156. # [18:02] <Zakim> leaverou, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 15 (30%)
  157. # [18:02] * sgalineau hover, is regrets really the word here?
  158. # [18:02] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  159. # [18:02] * sgalineau s/hover/hober
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  161. # [18:03] <Zakim> +dbaron
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  163. # [18:03] <rhauck1> Zakim, who is on the phone?
  164. # [18:03] <Zakim> On the phone I see glazou, leif (muted), plinss, krit, ??P31, SimonSapin (muted), antonp, Stearns, dael, Plh, rhauck, +1.206.675.aacc, jdovey, glenn, Lea, [Microsoft], dbaron
  165. # [18:03] <Zakim> +Tantek
  166. # [18:03] <tantek> Zakim, mute tantek
  167. # [18:03] <Zakim> Tantek should now be muted
  168. # [18:03] <Zakim> +fantasai
  169. # [18:04] * Joins: MaRakow (~MaRakow@public.cloak)
  170. # [18:04] <antonp> ScribeNick antonp
  171. # [18:04] <antonp> TOPIC: additions to agenda
  172. # [18:05] * Ms2ger RRSAgent: make minutes
  173. # [18:05] <antonp> glazou: f2f Sept place/date
  174. # [18:05] <antonp> TOPIC: follow-ups to requests to publish docs
  175. # [18:05] <Zakim> +TabAtkins_
  176. # [18:05] <antonp> glazou: grid template layout
  177. # [18:05] <Zakim> +SteveZ
  178. # [18:05] * Joins: Rossen (~Rossen@public.cloak)
  179. # [18:05] * hober sgalineau: :)
  180. # [18:05] <antonp> glazou: Has anyone reviewed the doc/
  181. # [18:06] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  182. # [18:06] <antonp> TabAtkins_: : My objection is already noted in the e-mails. This is the same functionality as grid; we shouldn't have two specs doing the same thing.
  183. # [18:06] <Rossen> zakim, mircosoft has me
  184. # [18:06] <Zakim> sorry, Rossen, I do not recognize a party named 'mircosoft'
  185. # [18:07] <antonp> glazou: I made the same comment last week. And I don't see any implementor commitment
  186. # [18:07] <antonp> glazou: I'd like to reach a consensus here. Should we publish?
  187. # [18:07] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.aa]
  188. # [18:07] <leaverou> for future questions, it's this one: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-template/
  189. # [18:07] <antonp> Rossen: I think we don't need it
  190. # [18:07] <SimonSapin> agreed on not duplicating functionality, fwiw
  191. # [18:08] <MaRakow> Zakim, [Microsoft.aa] is me
  192. # [18:08] <Zakim> +MaRakow; got it
  193. # [18:08] <antonp> ... spirit is captured in the other grid spec.
  194. # [18:08] * sgalineau we could always move it to GCPM *cough*
  195. # [18:08] <antonp> glazou: opinions from Apple?
  196. # [18:08] <antonp> glazou: I don't hear a consensus. I suggest we defer, and in the future consider dropping it
  197. # [18:08] <antonp> ... right now, the WG seems unlikely to pursue it
  198. # [18:09] <antonp> TabAtkins_: some of the stuff in that doc could be relevant to level 2 of the other grid spec
  199. # [18:09] * Joins: SteveZ (~chatzilla@public.cloak)
  200. # [18:09] <antonp> ... I'm happy keeping the spec as an ED
  201. # [18:09] <antonp> glazou: that's fine by me
  202. # [18:09] <antonp> ??: We should be clear about the status, not give it an ambiguous status
  203. # [18:10] <antonp> s/??/sgalineau
  204. # [18:10] <antonp> fantasai: It does make sense to update the WD, cos the one that's live is old. But we should add a note saying that grid functionality is in the other spec and that the ideas in this spec are exploratory
  205. # [18:11] <antonp> TabAtkins_: We have some specs with a not-ready-for-implementation notice on them; we could do something similar
  206. # [18:11] <sgalineau> +1 to elite's suggestion to make sure any new WD no longer includes things that are defined in grid layout
  207. # [18:11] <sgalineau> s/elite/elika (thanks OSX autocorrect!)
  208. # [18:12] <antonp> fantasai: We should update the TR page one way or the other
  209. # [18:12] <antonp> glazou: Updating and adding a warning (Defer to grid spec) gives two different signals
  210. # [18:12] <antonp> glazou: I don't think we should publish.
  211. # [18:13] <antonp> glazou: Add a note to 20-11 doc saying that it's obsolete. Link to the ED (if needed). And link to the grid spec
  212. # [18:13] * Quits: sgalineau (~sgalineau@public.cloak) ("Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com")
  213. # [18:13] <antonp> glenn(?): I don't have any objection to adding a note
  214. # [18:13] * Joins: sgalineau (~sgalineau@public.cloak)
  215. # [18:13] <glenn> s/glenn(?)/glenn/
  216. # [18:13] <SimonSapin> Zakim, unmute me
  217. # [18:13] <Zakim> SimonSapin should no longer be muted
  218. # [18:13] <tantek> zakim, unmute tantek
  219. # [18:13] <Zakim> Tantek should no longer be muted
  220. # [18:14] <glenn> s/adding a note/publishing as a note/
  221. # [18:14] <antonp> fantasai: Bert's the editor and I'd prefer if he were on the call where we decide on it
  222. # [18:14] <antonp> ??: I agree with what Tab was saying
  223. # [18:15] <tantek> antonp - that was me
  224. # [18:15] <antonp> SimonSapin: Does short URL stay the same if it's published as a Note?
  225. # [18:15] <tantek> I asked that it still be kept as an active editor's draft
  226. # [18:15] <fantasai> tantek: Want to clarify that even if we publish as a note, the editor's draft continues
  227. # [18:15] <leaverou> s/??:/tantek/
  228. # [18:15] <antonp> RESOLUTION: Move existing doc on TR to Note, and keep the ED
  229. # [18:15] <glazou> Zakim, who is here?
  230. # [18:15] <Zakim> On the phone I see glazou, leif (muted), plinss, krit, ??P31, SimonSapin, antonp, Stearns, dael, Plh, rhauck, +1.206.675.aacc, jdovey, glenn, Lea, [Microsoft], dbaron, Tantek,
  231. # [18:15] <Zakim> ... fantasai, TabAtkins_, SteveZ, [Microsoft.a], MaRakow
  232. # [18:15] <Zakim> On IRC I see sgalineau, SteveZ, Rossen, MaRakow, israelh, rhauck1, jdovey, JohnJansen, tantek, dael, teoli, leif, dbaron, krit, glenn, lmclister, Zakim, glazou, antonp, Ms2ger,
  233. # [18:15] <Zakim> ... shepazu, SimonSapin, plh, liam, logbot, shans, sylvaing, csswg, leaverou
  234. # [18:15] <antonp> fantasai: Still uncomfortable resolving without BErt
  235. # [18:15] <antonp> ??: So am I
  236. # [18:16] <dbaron> s/??/LeaVerou/
  237. # [18:16] <leaverou> s/??:/Lea:/
  238. # [18:16] * leaverou thx dbaron
  239. # [18:16] <antonp> tx both ;-)
  240. # [18:16] <antonp> glazou: Bert was aware that we were going to review the doc
  241. # [18:16] <antonp> TOPIC: Box alignment
  242. # [18:17] * dbaron Zakim, who is noisy?
  243. # [18:17] <antonp> fantasai: LAst week, people wanted time to review
  244. # [18:17] * Zakim dbaron, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.206.675.aacc (23%)
  245. # [18:17] <antonp> fantasai: We can either publish or wait longer
  246. # [18:17] <SimonSapin> Zakim, mute me
  247. # [18:17] <Zakim> SimonSapin should now be muted
  248. # [18:17] <antonp> fantasai: Not high priority to publish
  249. # [18:17] <SteveZ> I still need to review baseline
  250. # [18:17] <antonp> Rossen: I'd like another week to review
  251. # [18:17] <antonp> glazou: OK, another week to review
  252. # [18:17] <antonp> TOPIC: Tokyo F2F details
  253. # [18:18] <antonp> plinss: John Daggett asked for this
  254. # [18:18] * plh yoohoo! same location as TTWF!
  255. # [18:18] <rhauck1> testtwf is also being held there
  256. # [18:18] <antonp> TabAtkins_: Google can host at their office; it's within walking distance of the prior location (Mozilla office)
  257. # [18:19] <antonp> TabAtkins_: Your travel and accomm plans don't need to change.
  258. # [18:19] <antonp> various: close to other meetings too.
  259. # [18:19] <antonp> plh: I query that!
  260. # [18:19] <antonp> dbaron: One could walk, even if the locals don't!
  261. # [18:20] <antonp> glazou: Please update wiki with your travel info etc
  262. # [18:20] <antonp> glazou: Please also add regrets
  263. # [18:20] <antonp> TOPIC: Testing ownership
  264. # [18:20] <glazou> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2013AprJun/0121.html
  265. # [18:20] <dbaron> more like a 30 minute walk, I think
  266. # [18:21] <glazou> antonp, rhauck
  267. # [18:21] <antonp> Rebecca: Any objections to me taking over that role?
  268. # [18:21] <antonp> <no objections>
  269. # [18:21] <antonp> Rebecca: I was going to send a notification to the public list
  270. # [18:21] <glazou> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2013AprJun/0120.html
  271. # [18:21] <antonp> TOPIC: TPAC
  272. # [18:22] <antonp> glazou: How many people will attend, etc?
  273. # [18:22] <SteveZ> I plan to attend would like to have our usual Monday Tuesday days
  274. # [18:22] <antonp> TabAtkins_: Rather than an e-mail round-robin, can we use eg wiki
  275. # [18:22] <sgalineau> +1 to SteveZ
  276. # [18:23] <SteveZ> do not conflict with AB
  277. # [18:23] <antonp> fantasai: For scheduling, can we look at which groups not to conflict with. WE can discuss that now.
  278. # [18:23] <antonp> glazou: We always do Mon and Tue, and the other WGs we're interested in usually do Thur Fri
  279. # [18:23] <antonp> ... Hopefully it will all be the same again this time
  280. # [18:23] <SteveZ> correct!
  281. # [18:23] <antonp> glazou: Anyone know any different?
  282. # [18:23] <antonp> glazou: Apart from John and myself, who is not going to make it?
  283. # [18:24] <tantek> I'm not going to make it
  284. # [18:24] <antonp> glazou: dbaron wanted to discuss location and dates of Sept meeting
  285. # [18:24] <antonp> dbaron: We said 9-11 Sept tentatively, others wanted later.
  286. # [18:24] <antonp> .. We hadn't chosen a location
  287. # [18:25] <sgalineau> on my side the request for 11-13 was due to the w3c workshop right after it
  288. # [18:25] <antonp> .. Looks like Mozilla can host in Paris, but would rather get concrete dates first
  289. # [18:25] <antonp> .. If possible, dates sooner rather than later please
  290. # [18:25] <tantek> my preference is 11,12 ,13
  291. # [18:25] <leaverou> I can't make 11-13
  292. # [18:25] <leaverou> I have a conference
  293. # [18:26] <antonp> ??: 11-12-13 to coincide with W3C Publishing workshop the following Mon and Tues
  294. # [18:26] <antonp> szilles: I'm neutral on the dates
  295. # [18:26] <Rossen> 11-13 is preferred
  296. # [18:26] <stearns> s/??/sgalineau/
  297. # [18:26] <antonp> leaverou: I have a Brazil conf on 14, so might only make the first day
  298. # [18:26] <antonp> .. with those suggested dates.
  299. # [18:27] <antonp> glazou: OK, so it's Paris, 11,12,13 Sept
  300. # [18:27] <antonp> dbaron: I can deal with that before next week
  301. # [18:27] * leaverou was hoping to be able to attend the September f2f, since I will miss the June one due to another conf :(
  302. # [18:27] <SimonSapin> Zakim, unmut me
  303. # [18:27] <Zakim> I don't understand 'unmut me', SimonSapin
  304. # [18:27] <SimonSapin> Zakim, unmute me
  305. # [18:27] <Zakim> SimonSapin should no longer be muted
  306. # [18:27] <antonp> TOPIC: @font-face / @font-feature-values rule grammar
  307. # [18:28] <antonp> plinss: It was jdaggett's issue
  308. # [18:28] <antonp> SimonSapin: jdaggett updated the draft with a new grammar; I think it's fixed.
  309. # [18:28] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Apr/0553.html
  310. # [18:28] <antonp> TOPIC: Unicode caseless matching
  311. # [18:28] <antonp> glazou: We need to reply to Addisson
  312. # [18:28] <antonp> s/Addisson/Addison/
  313. # [18:28] <antonp> glazou: Any thoughts?
  314. # [18:28] <tantek> zakim, mute tantek
  315. # [18:28] <tantek> Zakim, mute tantek
  316. # [18:29] <Zakim> Tantek should now be muted
  317. # [18:29] * sgalineau likes that OSX autocorrect makes it Unicode causeless matching
  318. # [18:29] <Zakim> Tantek should now be muted
  319. # [18:29] * dbaron suspects jdaggett would have an opinion here
  320. # [18:29] <antonp> TabAtkins_: I'm happy enough, and now that it coincides with jdaggett's opinion I'm OK with it.
  321. # [18:29] <antonp> TabAtkins_: The thing we discussed at the last F2F is what Addison is OK with
  322. # [18:30] <antonp> ACTION on glazou to ping jdaggett to request his formal opinion, then reply to Addison
  323. # [18:30] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
  324. # [18:30] <trackbot> Error finding 'on'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/users>.
  325. # [18:30] * fantasai still doesn't understand why we are not normalizing
  326. # [18:30] <antonp> ACTION glazou to ping jdaggett to request his formal opinion, then reply to Addison
  327. # [18:30] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
  328. # [18:30] <trackbot> Created ACTION-560 - Ping jdaggett to request his formal opinion, then reply to Addison [on Daniel Glazman - due 2013-05-08].
  329. # [18:30] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Apr/0639.html
  330. # [18:30] <antonp> TOPIC: Multicol overflowing floats
  331. # [18:30] * fantasai proposes adding SimonSapin as editor of multicol
  332. # [18:30] <antonp> SimonSapin: multicol spec says that contents in the flow should be clipped when it overflows the column
  333. # [18:30] <antonp> .. but what about out-of-flow content eg floats and abspos?
  334. # [18:31] <antonp> SimonSapin: The spec should say something, but what?
  335. # [18:31] <antonp> .. and should we do different things for floats and abspos?
  336. # [18:31] <antonp> glazou: Should we defer to Hakon?
  337. # [18:32] <antonp> Rossen: Way back when, I think we discussed something similar (eg a year ago) where we made it clear that columns establish their own formatting context and hence floats shouldnt' be affecting the flow in other columns.
  338. # [18:32] <antonp> .. Or are you talking about fragmentation?
  339. # [18:33] <antonp> SimonSapin: There are 2 separate itssues in what Francois reported. Fragmentation in the block direction: the frag spec says that two possible behaviours are acceptable.
  340. # [18:33] <antonp> .. OTher issue is in the inline direction, overflowing into the next column. If we don't clip, does it affect the line boxes in the next col?
  341. # [18:33] <antonp> Rossen: We discussed that. There's a missing paragraph about columns needing to establish a BFC
  342. # [18:34] <antonp> Rossen: I don't think that floats that are overflowing from one col to another should affect anything in the inline flow
  343. # [18:34] <antonp> .. Equiv of having 2 table cells next to each others
  344. # [18:34] <antonp> .. PErhaps there's an action on me to add such a paragraph something
  345. # [18:35] * sgalineau recalls discussion about a multicol being a BFC; can't recall whether column boxes were...
  346. # [18:35] <dbaron> presumably this means floats overflowing horizontally into another column, rather than being fragmented into the next column?
  347. # [18:35] <antonp> antonp: I also had a bunch of issues that Hakon was discussing, and I don't think the edits have made it into the spec yet
  348. # [18:36] <SimonSapin> dbaron, François talked about both, but right now we’re discussing the former
  349. # [18:36] <SimonSapin> oh, no, the latter now
  350. # [18:36] <antonp> Rossen: Image in multicol would be monolithic, and I don't think it should be fragmented. Chrome and Firefox are fragmenting
  351. # [18:36] <glazou> right SimonSapin
  352. # [18:36] <antonp> .. I don't think it's an issue in the multicol spec per se; perhaps we need to clarify the frag spec.
  353. # [18:37] <antonp> glazou: But what about hte issue that Francois reported?
  354. # [18:37] <antonp> SimonSapin: He reported both at once
  355. # [18:37] * Quits: JohnJansen (~JohnJansen@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
  356. # [18:37] <antonp> Rossen: I think we've addressed both questions
  357. # [18:37] * Joins: JohnJansen (~JohnJansen@public.cloak)
  358. # [18:38] <antonp> For frag, we're describing what is multicol or not. [..] If something's not clear, action me to clarify it
  359. # [18:38] <antonp> s/multicol/monolithic/
  360. # [18:38] <antonp> SimonSapin: Frag spec accepts 2 behaviours but should only accept one
  361. # [18:39] <antonp> .. IMO.
  362. # [18:39] <SimonSapin> "The UA is not required to fragment the contents of monolithic elements, and may instead either slice the element's graphical representation as necessary to fragment it or treat its box as unbreakable and overflow the fragmentainer. In both cases it must treat the element as having ‘break-inside: avoid’, i.e. only slice or overflow at the fragmentainer edge if there are no possible break points on the fragmentainer."
  363. # [18:39] <antonp> Rossen: I need to refresh my memory of this
  364. # [18:39] <SimonSapin> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-break/#possible-breaks
  365. # [18:39] <antonp> SimonSapin: "The UA may either do this or do that"
  366. # [18:40] <antonp> Rossen: When we discussed with fantasai I remember go over this in length, trying to figure out when to cut an image and when to leave it. The idea was that the different frag contexts such as multicol vs pagination would make their own choice
  367. # [18:40] <antonp> .. eg in visual media, multicol + monolithic overflowing box might be ok, but in pagination a break would make more sense
  368. # [18:41] <antonp> .. however, there's little interop, and at the time it was hard to make a call about which should happen when. Multicol is apparently a victim of that.
  369. # [18:41] <antonp> .. We can specify multicol explicitly?
  370. # [18:41] <antonp> SimonSapin: I don't have an opinion on what to do, but don't like that UAs have a choice
  371. # [18:42] <antonp> Rossen I can figure out what to do in the frag spec, though no change to multicol spec
  372. # [18:42] <antonp> s/Rossen/Rossen:/
  373. # [18:42] <antonp> szilles: Distinction between interactive situation and non-interactive situation, eg scrollbar
  374. # [18:43] <antonp> fantasai: I don't think that's right; it's about whether overflow can be visible
  375. # [18:43] <antonp> Rossen: interactive is just one aspect of that
  376. # [18:43] <antonp> fantasai: whether overflow is visible eg depends on the size of the multicol vs the size of the page
  377. # [18:44] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@public.cloak)
  378. # [18:45] <antonp> Rossen: The multicol situation is part of a bigger problem which we won't solve immediately, but perhaps we can deal with multicol earlier.
  379. # [18:45] <antonp> ACTION: Rossen to figure out what to do in the frag spec, though no change to multicol spec
  380. # [18:45] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
  381. # [18:45] * RRSAgent records action 4
  382. # [18:45] <trackbot> Created ACTION-561 - Figure out what to do in the frag spec, though no change to multicol spec [on Rossen Atanassov - due 2013-05-08].
  383. # [18:46] * fantasai wonders if we have open issues on Selectors or Grid to discuss
  384. # [18:46] <antonp> Rossen: Last week there was a discussion about named flows and flowing into content only. If I read the minutes correctly, was I being asked to supply use cases??
  385. # [18:47] <antonp> astearns: BErt was asking for use cases
  386. # [18:47] <antonp> glazou: we said we'd move that discussion to the mailing list
  387. # [18:47] <antonp> fantasai: grid layout: Rossen, Tab and I discussed
  388. # [18:47] * sgalineau is allergic to magic
  389. # [18:47] <SimonSapin> oh please no magic
  390. # [18:48] <antonp> .. Question: Percentages do magic things like in tables, or behave like block (be auto when can't resolve)?
  391. # [18:48] <antonp> dbaron: I don't think tables are magic; they're just different
  392. # [18:48] <plinss> http://w3cmemes.tumblr.com/post/34634329920/csswg-resolves-to-use-less-magic
  393. # [18:48] <antonp> TabAtkins_: I disagree that it's not magic
  394. # [18:48] <antonp> TabAtkins_: [...]
  395. # [18:49] <antonp> fantasai: Should we investigate (for grid) making percentages behave as per tables?
  396. # [18:49] <antonp> dbaron: I'm neutral
  397. # [18:49] * sgalineau dbaron is neutral on magic. uh.
  398. # [18:49] <antonp> Rossen: Sounds like nobody wants magic, apart from dbaron who's neutral
  399. # [18:50] <SimonSapin> "no magic" from me is as an implementer, no idea what’s better for authors
  400. # [18:50] <antonp> ... Proposed solution is that percentages work like block and not like table
  401. # [18:50] <antonp> RESOLVED: In grid, percentages work as per block layout, not as per table layout
  402. # [18:51] * sgalineau made that meme 6 months ago. some jokes have a long fuse...
  403. # [18:51] <antonp> Rossen: Issue 24 about alignment and how auto margins play, and whether they win over alignment
  404. # [18:51] <antonp> fantasai: We decided to make them consisten with flexbox
  405. # [18:51] <antonp> Rossen: I have an item which eg is align-self:right and margin:auto
  406. # [18:51] <antonp> .. How do we decide if the align property behaviour wins over the legacy auto margin behaviour?
  407. # [18:52] <antonp> .. Tab pointed out that the align spec already says that the legacy auto margin wins
  408. # [18:52] <antonp> .. Consensus is that we'll also take this into grid spec
  409. # [18:53] <antonp> .. Personally I'd prefer it the other way around, but if everyone else is happy with legacy auto margin winning then I can live with that
  410. # [18:53] * dbaron didn't follow the issue
  411. # [18:53] * Quits: JohnJansen (~JohnJansen@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 60 seconds)
  412. # [18:53] <antonp> TabAtkins_: Alignment only applies if the margins are non-auto
  413. # [18:54] <antonp> TabAtkins_: I don't actually really think it's legacy, but anyhow I just want to maintain it.
  414. # [18:55] <antonp> Proposal: auto margins specified on grid items override the align-self property values, like they do in other layout modules such as flexbox (and also block)
  415. # [18:56] <antonp> s/Proposal/Rossen: Proposal/
  416. # [18:56] <antonp> RESOLVED: auto margins specified on grid items override the align-self property values, like they do in other layout modules such as flexbox (and also block)
  417. # [18:56] * fantasai dbaron, it's whether alignment with auto margins or alignment with alignment properties wins when both are specified
  418. # [18:56] <Zakim> -dbaron
  419. # [18:56] <Zakim> -glenn
  420. # [18:56] <Zakim> - +1.206.675.aacc
  421. # [18:56] <Zakim> -krit
  422. # [18:56] <Zakim> -fantasai
  423. # [18:56] <Zakim> -SteveZ
  424. # [18:57] <Zakim> -jdovey
  425. # [18:57] <Zakim> -rhauck
  426. # [18:57] <Zakim> -glazou
  427. # [18:57] <Zakim> -Stearns
  428. # [18:57] <Zakim> -antonp
  429. # [18:57] <Zakim> -Plh
  430. # [18:57] <Zakim> -dael
  431. # [18:57] <Zakim> -Lea
  432. # [18:57] <Zakim> -leif
  433. # [18:57] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  434. # [18:57] <Zakim> -TabAtkins_
  435. # [18:57] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
  436. # [18:57] <Zakim> -Tantek
  437. # [18:57] <Zakim> -plinss
  438. # [18:57] * Quits: dael (~dael@public.cloak) (dael)
  439. # [18:57] * Parts: jdovey (~jdovey@public.cloak) (jdovey)
  440. # [18:57] <dbaron> When we're done with the agenda, could we close the meeting rather than try to stretch it out to fill the whole hour?
  441. # [18:57] <Zakim> -SimonSapin
  442. # [18:57] * Parts: leif (~lastorset@public.cloak) (leif)
  443. # [18:57] <TabAtkins_> dbaron: I think this is more a revisting of the "additional agenda topics?" question.
  444. # [18:57] <Zakim> -MaRakow
  445. # [18:57] <stearns> I thought it was useful to resolve the two additional things
  446. # [18:57] * Parts: MaRakow (~MaRakow@public.cloak)
  447. # [18:59] <glazou> yep
  448. # [18:59] <dbaron> things take a lot less time if people are prepared to discuss them
  449. # [18:59] <dbaron> I also didn't follow most of what was discussed there, though the resolution sounded fine
  450. # [18:59] <dbaron> there was about 10 minutes of explanation leading to it that I didn't follow
  451. # [18:59] * Quits: Rossen (~Rossen@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
  452. # [19:00] <dbaron> I also don't think useful decisions are made after 5 minutes of thought.
  453. # [19:00] <dbaron> It's better to either defer to the editors entirely, or give people a chance to think about the issue.
  454. # [19:00] <glazou> dbaron, then you should say it when I ask for comments?
  455. # [19:00] <stearns> fair enough - I think both of those could have been editor's calls
  456. # [19:01] <dbaron> The "filling time" at the end tends to be much less efficient than the rest of the telecon.
  457. # [19:03] <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, ??P31, in Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
  458. # [19:03] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  459. # [19:03] <Zakim> Attendees were glazou, plinss, leif, krit, +33.4.26.01.aaaa, antonp, Stearns, SimonSapin, dael, Plh, +1.415.615.aabb, rhauck, +1.206.675.aacc, +1.416.800.aadd, glenn, Lea, jdovey,
  460. # [19:03] <Zakim> ... [Microsoft], dbaron, Tantek, fantasai, TabAtkins_, SteveZ, MaRakow
  461. # [19:04] * Quits: glazou (~glazou@public.cloak) (glazou)
  462. # [19:05] <dbaron> ok, I'll say so next time
  463. # [19:08] <tantek> I too am ok with ending the call early unless someone brings up an *urgent* agenda item.
  464. # [19:08] <tantek> "any other agenda items" can probably be left to just discuss on email instead, and if they require telcon time, they can get time next week.
  465. # [19:15] * Quits: rhauck1 (~Adium@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
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  478. # [20:49] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  479. # [20:49] * Parts: Zakim (zakim@public.cloak) (Zakim)
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  494. # [22:31] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Apr/0133.html
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  501. # [22:49] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Mar/0297.html
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  511. # [23:36] <fantasai> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=15392
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  513. # Session Close: Thu May 02 00:00:00 2013

The end :)