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- # Session Start: Wed May 22 00:00:00 2013
- # Session Ident: #css
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- # [06:07] <fantasai> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/?%3C!DOCTYPE%20html%3E%0A%3Cdiv%20style%3D%22width%3A%20400px%3B%20height%3A%20100px%3B%20border%3A%20double%2050px%3B%20overflow%3A%20scroll%3B%20background%3A%20bottom%20right%20url(http%3A%2F%2Fxanthir.com%2Fpony)%20no-repeat%20local%20border-box%3B%22%3E%0ASome%3Cbr%3E%0ASome%3Cbr%3E%0ASome%3Cbr%3E%0ASome%3Cbr%3E%0ASome%3Cbr%3E%0ASome%3Cbr%3E%0ASome%3Cbr%3E%0ASome%3Cbr%3E%0ASome%3Cbr%3E%0ASome%3Cbr%3E
- # [06:07] <liam> tinyurl r us? :-)
- # [06:08] <fantasai> heh
- # [06:10] <liam> apparently in google's hangout chat you can type /ponies and get... er... ponies
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- # [17:54] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/05/22-css-irc
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- # [17:55] <plinss> zakim, this will be style
- # [17:55] <Zakim> ok, plinss, I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM already started
- # [17:55] <Zakim> +krit
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- # [17:55] <Zakim> +plinss
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- # [17:57] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
- # [17:57] <JohnJansen> Zakim, Microsoft has JohnJansen
- # [17:57] <Zakim> +JohnJansen; got it
- # [17:57] * glazou changes topic to 'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013May/0507.html'
- # [17:57] <SimonSapin> We didn’t resolve on this, right? http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/issues/316
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- # [17:59] <Zakim> +??P1
- # [18:00] <Zakim> +Stearns
- # [18:00] <Zakim> + +1.619.846.aaaa
- # [18:00] <Zakim> +jdaggett
- # [18:01] <Zakim> +??P39
- # [18:01] <glazou> Zakim, ??P39 is me
- # [18:01] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
- # [18:01] <Zakim> +shezbaig_wk
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- # [18:02] <sgalineau> Zakim, what's with the @#$ turkish I
- # [18:02] <Zakim> I don't understand 'what's with the @#$ turkish I', sgalineau
- # [18:03] * leaverou what Turkish?
- # [18:03] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
- # [18:03] <antonp> Apologies; I'll be late on the call today; I'm in a meeting that's running late
- # [18:03] <fantasai> Zakim, [IPcaller] has fantasai
- # [18:03] <Zakim> +fantasai; got it
- # [18:03] <fantasai> Zakim, [IPcaller] has SimonSapin
- # [18:03] <Zakim> +SimonSapin; got it
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- # [18:04] <Zakim> +TabAtkins_
- # [18:04] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
- # [18:05] <Rossen> zakim, microsoft has me
- # [18:05] <Zakim> +Rossen; got it
- # [18:05] <Zakim> + +1.714.742.aabb
- # [18:05] <Zakim> -shezbaig_wk
- # [18:05] <jerenkrantz> Zakim, aabb is me
- # [18:05] <Zakim> +jerenkrantz; got it
- # [18:05] <TabAtkins> ScribeNick: TabAtkins
- # [18:05] <Zakim> +shezbaig_wk
- # [18:05] <jerenkrantz> Zakim, mute jerenkrantz
- # [18:05] <Zakim> jerenkrantz should now be muted
- # [18:05] <glazou> Zakim, who is here?
- # [18:05] <Zakim> On the phone I see krit, plinss, [Microsoft], ??P1, Stearns, +1.619.846.aaaa, jdaggett, glazou, SylvaIng, Lea, [IPcaller], TabAtkins_, [Microsoft.a], jerenkrantz (muted),
- # [18:06] <Zakim> ... shezbaig_wk
- # [18:06] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has Rossen
- # [18:06] <Zakim> [IPcaller] has SimonSapin
- # [18:06] <Zakim> On IRC I see Rossen, c_palmer, antonp, lmcliste_, JohnJansen, glazou, sgalineau, glenn, Zakim, RRSAgent, rhauck, SimonSapin, jerenkrantz, nvdbleek, krit, teoli, shepazu, plh,
- # [18:06] <Zakim> ... darktears, Ms2ger, Bert, logbot, abucur, liam, paul___irish, arronei
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- # [18:06] <Zakim> +Bert
- # [18:06] <TabAtkins> Topic: Publications
- # [18:07] <TabAtkins> plinss: You wanted last call on Counter Styles?
- # [18:07] <SimonSapin> Did we resolve on ID selector syntax? http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/issues/316
- # [18:07] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: Yes.
- # [18:07] <TabAtkins> plinss: Any objections?
- # [18:07] <Zakim> +??P73
- # [18:07] * plh is running late
- # [18:07] <TabAtkins> plh: Anyone need contacting about it?
- # [18:07] * Joins: israelh (~israelh@public.cloak)
- # [18:07] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: I'd to HTML, i18n, and a11y.
- # [18:08] <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: Publish Counter Styles as LC, 4-week period, contact HTML, i18n, a11y for feedback.
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- # [18:08] <Bert> s/plh:/plinss:/
- # [18:08] <TabAtkins> plinss: Next, exclusions and shapes.
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- # [18:08] <TabAtkins> stearns: I've split the specs, and want to publish WDs for them.
- # [18:08] <TabAtkins> plinss: For Shapes, is that FPWD?
- # [18:08] <ChrisL> yes it will be a fpwd
- # [18:08] <TabAtkins> stearns: I'm not sure what the process is about splitting.
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- # [18:09] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Process-wise it's a FPWD.
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- # [18:09] <TabAtkins> plinss: Objections?
- # [18:09] <fantasai> stearns, they key point is that a shortname has to be approved :)
- # [18:09] <glazou> who is ??P73 ?
- # [18:09] <glazou> and ??P1
- # [18:09] <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: Publish FPWD of Shapes, updated WD of Exclusions.
- # [18:10] <TabAtkins> krit: If we publish a new FPWD, we'll need a new IP review.
- # [18:10] <ChrisL> only for anything not already published, I believe
- # [18:10] <Bert> (New WD needs domain lead approval, that would be for Shapes. I can take care of that with PLH.)
- # [18:10] <glazou> Zakim, who is on the phone?
- # [18:10] <Zakim> On the phone I see krit, plinss, [Microsoft], ??P1, Stearns, +1.619.846.aaaa, jdaggett, glazou, SylvaIng, Lea, [IPcaller], TabAtkins_, [Microsoft.a], jerenkrantz (muted),
- # [18:10] <Zakim> ... shezbaig_wk, Bert, ??P73
- # [18:10] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has Rossen
- # [18:10] <Zakim> [IPcaller] has SimonSapin
- # [18:11] * Joins: MaRakow (~MaRakow@public.cloak)
- # [18:11] <TabAtkins> ChrisL: In the Status of the draft, it's customary to say that it was previously published as XXX and has been split out.
- # [18:11] <TabAtkins> ChrisL: So it would be pretty hard for people to exclude anything.
- # [18:11] <TabAtkins> plinss: But we still have to go throught he exclusion period?
- # [18:11] <TabAtkins> ChrisL: Unfortunately, yes.
- # [18:11] <ChrisL> yes
- # [18:11] <TabAtkins> plinss: Also, you want a new WD of Regions?
- # [18:11] <TabAtkins> stearns: Yes, just a heartbeat draft with latest updates.
- # [18:12] <TabAtkins> Rossen: I'm good for another publish.
- # [18:12] <glazou> plh: you're on the call?
- # [18:12] <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: Publish a new WD of Regions.
- # [18:12] * plh not yet
- # [18:12] <glazou> k
- # [18:12] <TabAtkins> Topic: TPAC extra day
- # [18:12] <nvdbleek> zakim, code?
- # [18:12] <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), nvdbleek
- # [18:12] <TabAtkins> plinss: Anyone want an extra day before/after TPAC, like we did last year?
- # [18:13] <TabAtkins> Rossen: Would that be Sunday? I'm in favor.
- # [18:13] <leaverou> +1 for extra TPAC day
- # [18:13] <TabAtkins> plinss: Likely, yes.
- # [18:13] <Zakim> -jdaggett
- # [18:13] <Zakim> +nvdbleek
- # [18:13] <TabAtkins> krit: Also, there's a TTWF on Saturday.
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- # [18:14] <TabAtkins> Bert: I may have additional requirements around TPAC. I probably wont' ahve time.
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- # [18:14] <TabAtkins> plinss: Okay, so let's do some research and see if we can get meeting space.
- # [18:15] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.aa]
- # [18:15] <MaRakow> zakim, [Microsoft.aa] is me
- # [18:15] <Zakim> +MaRakow; got it
- # [18:15] <TabAtkins> Topic: an+b grammar
- # [18:15] <fantasai> ScribeNick: fantasai
- # [18:15] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
- # [18:15] <fantasai> TabAtkins: an+b has always been defined handwavy, at best with completely different tokenizer than CSS
- # [18:16] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Had to retokenize or do some other magic
- # [18:16] <fantasai> TabAtkins: In Syntax, defined it based on CSs tokens
- # [18:16] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Change from Selectors 3 is that in case of "+n" or "-n", can have a space between sign and 'n'
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- # [18:16] <fantasai> TabAtkins: This is because [...]
- # [18:17] <fantasai> TabAtkins: This is unavoidable if we define in terms of [...]
- # [18:17] <fantasai> TabAtkins: It's a minor change
- # [18:17] * krit who cares about why :P
- # [18:17] <SimonSapin> s/"+n" or "-n"//
- # [18:17] <fantasai> TabAtkins: dbaron has an objection to it because can't just swap + and minus and be correct
- # [18:17] <SimonSapin> s/ or "-n"//
- # [18:17] <fantasai> TabAtkins: I think it's a very minor thing. There is no reason to ever write +n
- # [18:17] * Quits: antonp (~Thunderbird@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
- # [18:17] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Anyone have thoughts about this?
- # [18:17] <ChrisL> presumably calc does not affect this
- # [18:18] <fantasai> ChrisL: [...?]
- # [18:18] <fantasai> ChrisL: Nevermind
- # [18:18] <fantasai> dirk asks for a link to discussion
- # [18:18] <SimonSapin> www.w3.org/mid/0bgmqpl2196wrcmj2q786i4q.1368261406596@email.android.com
- # [18:19] <fantasai> glazou: The only bit I don't get is when you say that it used completely different tokenizer than CSS, because we carefully designed an+b long ago to use units and stuff like that, to be able to go through the tokenizer
- # [18:19] <fantasai> TabAtkins: If that was your intent, it got lost.
- # [18:19] * sgalineau no one wants a whitespace(an+b) parser directive? really?
- # [18:19] <fantasai> TabAkins: [ explained how various things get merged into single tokens]
- # [18:19] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Tokenizer as written is Selectors and in CSS2.1, not compatible with CSS tokenization rules
- # [18:19] <Zakim> +tantek
- # [18:20] * sgalineau thought he understood Syntax. Tab fixed that. Thoroughly.
- # [18:20] <Bert> (It *is* compatible. You just have to re-parse it afterwards.)
- # [18:20] * TabAtkins sgalineau You didn't undersatnd it, believe me. ^_^
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- # [18:21] <fantasai> fantasai: Tab is right, you can tokenize everything that's inside an+b, but you have to retokenize in order to parse it.
- # [18:21] <ChrisL> is a+/**/b already allowed?
- # [18:21] <fantasai> fantasai: I don't think we should be changing anything right now
- # [18:22] <SimonSapin> ChrisL: unclear per Selectors 3
- # [18:22] <fantasai> TabAtkins: It's a change that falls out of how it's defined.
- # [18:22] <TabAtkins> "+ n" and "- n"
- # [18:22] <SimonSapin> Syntax 3 tries to make it more well-defined
- # [18:22] <glazou> glazou: we originally wanted whitespaces allowed but did not go that way because of our parsing rules at that time
- # [18:22] <fantasai> s/it's defined/I'm defining it/
- # [18:23] <fantasai> plinss: your current change allows space after plus, but not after minus?
- # [18:24] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Yes, because can't tell the difference in tokenization between "+n" and "+ n" if you're ignoring space tokens
- # [18:24] <fantasai> glazou: I don't think it's good to have differences in + and -.
- # [18:24] * Rossen + 1
- # [18:24] * Zakim wonders where 1 is
- # [18:24] <fantasai> glazou: Should allow for both or disallow for both, otherwise it's confusing.
- # [18:24] <ChrisL> and that would address dbaron's ojection too
- # [18:24] <fantasai> krit: I agree with that.
- # [18:24] <ChrisL> s/oj/obj
- # [18:24] <SimonSapin> +1 for consistency
- # [18:24] * plh zakim, call plh-mobile
- # [18:24] * Zakim ok, plh; the call is being made
- # [18:24] <Zakim> +Plh
- # [18:24] * Bert lol at rossen
- # [18:25] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Ok, sounds good to me. we'll wait for dbaron now.
- # [18:25] <TabAtkins> ScribeNick: TabAtkins
- # [18:25] <TabAtkins> Topic: font-size-adjust
- # [18:25] * plh zakim, mute me
- # [18:25] * Zakim Plh should now be muted
- # [18:26] <TabAtkins> Zakim, who's here?
- # [18:26] <Zakim> On the phone I see krit, plinss, [Microsoft], ??P1, Stearns, +1.619.846.aaaa, glazou, SylvaIng, Lea, [IPcaller], TabAtkins_, [Microsoft.a], jerenkrantz (muted), shezbaig_wk, Bert,
- # [18:26] <Zakim> ... ??P73, nvdbleek, MaRakow, tantek, Plh (muted)
- # [18:26] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has Rossen
- # [18:26] <Zakim> [IPcaller] has SimonSapin
- # [18:26] <Zakim> On IRC I see cabanier, MaRakow, ChrisL, jerenkrantz, israelh, koji, Rossen, c_palmer, lmcliste_, JohnJansen, glazou, sgalineau, glenn, Zakim, RRSAgent, SimonSapin, nvdbleek, krit,
- # [18:26] <Zakim> ... teoli, shepazu, plh, darktears, Ms2ger, Bert, logbot, abucur, liam
- # [18:26] <SimonSapin> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013May/0384.html
- # [18:27] <TabAtkins> fantasai: The issue ist hat in CSS3 Fonts, we need to be clear about what the font-relative lengths are computed against.
- # [18:27] <fantasai> 'em', 'ex', and 'ch''
- # [18:27] <TabAtkins> fantasai: em, ex, ch
- # [18:27] <TabAtkins> fantasai: The computed font-size is a lenght, and that's known.
- # [18:27] <fantasai> * font-size-adjust
- # [18:27] <TabAtkins> fantasai: But there's various things taht can affect the resulting, actually used, font-size.
- # [18:27] <TabAtkins> Like font-size-adjust.
- # [18:27] <fantasai> * size substitution
- # [18:27] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Or size substitution.
- # [18:28] <TabAtkins> fantasai: (the spec lets the size be rounded tot he nearest pixel, or the nearest bitmap size)
- # [18:28] <TabAtkins> fantasai: So is an em the computed font size, or the font size after you do those adjustments?
- # [18:28] <TabAtkins> ChrisL: It seems like it shoudl be as early as possible.
- # [18:28] <Zakim> -Plh
- # [18:28] <TabAtkins> ChrisL: If you take what's specified and produce a used size, you're having to do the process twice.
- # [18:28] * plh zakim, call plh-mobile
- # [18:28] * Zakim ok, plh; the call is being made
- # [18:28] <Zakim> +Plh
- # [18:29] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: em size can't depend on nearest bitmap size, since that depends on url resolution, and computed values dont' depend on that.
- # [18:30] <TabAtkins> fantasai: But ex and ch depend on font values anyway.
- # [18:30] <fantasai> s/values/metrics/
- # [18:30] <TabAtkins> fantasai: We coudl say that em is a computed value, while ex/ch wait until the font data comes in.
- # [18:30] <SimonSapin> +1 for em = computed font-size, ex and ch based on the used font size
- # [18:30] <TabAtkins> ChrisL: I think that's consistent with what I said, where it resolves "as early as possible".
- # [18:31] <TabAtkins> Bert: Given the use-case for ex, that should be done after font-size-adjust.
- # [18:31] <TabAtkins> Rossen: What use-cases are we addressing?
- # [18:31] <TabAtkins> fantasai: An em unit is generally used for having margins/padding be some multiple of the font size.
- # [18:32] <TabAtkins> fantasai: For ch, if you ahve a monospace font, you want to size something to some fixed number of characters from that font.
- # [18:32] <TabAtkins> ChrisL: font-size-adjust tweaks font sizes so that if several fotns are used together, they all have the same "middle height".
- # [18:33] <TabAtkins> ChrisL: And it seems reasonable to size things relative to that.
- # [18:33] <TabAtkins> fantasai: So I feel pretty strongly that ch should be resolved after font data.
- # [18:33] <TabAtkins> fantasai: For em I feel less strongly, but there are questions. What's the line-height if you set it to 1em, and then the size of the font is tweaked?
- # [18:34] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Whatever the line-height ends up being, it would be useful to have em be that measurement.
- # [18:34] <TabAtkins> fantasai: But I think that relevant people aren't here. That's the overview of the issue.
- # [18:34] <Bert> (One use case for ex I found is to make a bar that looks like: xxxxxx Page 7 xxxxxxxxx where the x is actually a solid bar that matches the lowercase letters. I have a photo somewhere...)
- # [18:34] <TabAtkins> plinss: I think dbaron sent his regrets next week, so maybe push it to the f2f?
- # [18:35] * Quits: glenn (~gadams@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
- # [18:35] <TabAtkins> (Bert - another is to use images for non-text glyphs that are meant to be lowercase-letter sized.)
- # [18:35] <SimonSapin> http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/issues/316
- # [18:35] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: I'd like to talk about the id selector grammar issue.
- # [18:36] <TabAtkins> Topic: ID selectors and their grammar.
- # [18:36] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: We have a proposed change to relax the restriction, so id selectors can just be any hash token (no requirement for the value to be an ident).
- # [18:36] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: But there's another argument that we should keep the restriction, to be more consistent with class selectors.
- # [18:37] <TabAtkins> fantasai: The counter-argument makes sense to me.
- # [18:37] <TabAtkins> fantasai: And we have interop on that behavior, so I'm happy to keep that.
- # [18:37] * Joins: tantek (~tpod@public.cloak)
- # [18:38] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: Removing the restriction simplifies the spec (I don't have to keep around a flag on hash tokens), and it means we can remove the quirk that relaxes the restriction.
- # [18:39] <TabAtkins> Bert: Seems dangerous to make the change at this point, since it's so old.
- # [18:39] * fantasai waiting for the minutes to catch up
- # [18:39] * fantasai it's missing the point about quirk implementations
- # [18:39] * Quits: ChrisL (clilley@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
- # [18:39] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: It's only dangerous if there are rules that are currently invalid due to having a non-ident hash as an id selector, and which the page depends on being invalid.
- # [18:39] * Joins: glenn (~gadams@public.cloak)
- # [18:39] * Joins: ChrisL (clilley@public.cloak)
- # [18:39] * glazou agrees with change, cool for editors!
- # [18:40] <TabAtkins> [something about the quirk not existing in all browsers]
- # [18:40] <TabAtkins> plinss: The quirk is not present in FF, Safari/Chrome.
- # [18:41] <TabAtkins> ChrisL: HTML *does* allow non-ident IDs.
- # [18:41] <Zakim> -tantek
- # [18:41] * Quits: jerenkrantz (~jerenkrantz@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
- # [18:43] <SimonSapin> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Apr/0190.html "Not if we want to drop the quirk. This quirk is not present in Firefox/Safari/Chrome. That means we can drop it."
- # [18:43] <TabAtkins> fantasai: I just don't think that changing this right now is worthwhile, because change is painful for authors.
- # [18:43] * Joins: jerenkrantz (~jerenkrantz@public.cloak)
- # [18:43] <TabAtkins> glazou: Agreed - changing classes to/from ids is common, and if having to change the syntax, that's painful.
- # [18:43] <fantasai> fantasai: Given the argument for consistency with class selectors, that we have interop across all implementations right now, and that the quirk can be dropped because it's not implemented across all implementations anyway, I strongly think that we should not make this change.
- # [18:44] * ChrisL can see arguments both ways
- # [18:44] <glazou> ChrisL, yes
- # [18:44] <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: No change for id selector syntax.
- # [18:44] * Joins: tantek_ (~tpod@public.cloak)
- # [18:45] * glazou after jury duty, I could happily rest 15mins more...
- # [18:45] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Question about backgrounds.
- # [18:45] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013May/0516.html
- # [18:46] <TabAtkins> fantasai: There used to be background-attachment: scroll | fixed
- # [18:46] <TabAtkins> fantasai: scroll meant the background scrolled with the content. fixed meant the background didn't scroll with the content.
- # [18:46] <TabAtkins> CSS2 added 'overflow', which allowed any element to have a scrollbar.
- # [18:47] <TabAtkins> fantasai: The WG decided that 'scroll' should act like 'fixed' for those elements.
- # [18:47] * Quits: jerenkrantz (~jerenkrantz@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
- # [18:47] * Quits: tantek (~tpod@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
- # [18:47] * tantek_ is now known as tantek
- # [18:47] <TabAtkins> fantasai: We added the 'local' value to get back to scrolling.
- # [18:48] <TabAtkins> fantasai: So I want to clarify the spec to define the positioning area.
- # [18:48] <TabAtkins> fantasai: So it matches the way the canvas background works inside the viewport scroll area.
- # [18:48] * Joins: jerenkrantz (~jerenkrantz@public.cloak)
- # [18:49] <jerenkrantz> Swiss
- # [18:49] <glazou> warning, Swiss is sooo on time the plane can leave in advance ;-)
- # [18:49] <glazou> no kidding, happened to me
- # [18:50] <Zakim> - +1.619.846.aaaa
- # [18:50] <TabAtkins> plinss: No further topics, so adjourned.
- # [18:50] <sgalineau> howcome could never fly swiss then
- # [18:50] <Zakim> -jerenkrantz
- # [18:50] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
- # [18:50] <Zakim> -glazou
- # [18:50] <Zakim> -nvdbleek
- # [18:50] * Quits: JohnJansen (~JohnJansen@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
- # [18:50] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
- # [18:50] * Quits: jerenkrantz (~jerenkrantz@public.cloak) ("Leaving")
- # [18:50] <Zakim> -krit
- # [18:50] <Zakim> -SylvaIng
- # [18:50] <Zakim> -??P73
- # [18:50] <Zakim> -shezbaig_wk
- # [18:50] <Zakim> -Plh
- # [18:50] <Zakim> -plinss
- # [18:50] <Zakim> -Lea
- # [18:50] <Zakim> -MaRakow
- # [18:50] <Zakim> -TabAtkins_
- # [18:50] <Zakim> -Stearns
- # [18:50] * Quits: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak) (nvdbleek)
- # [18:50] <Zakim> -Bert
- # [18:50] * ChrisL howcome used to prefer swiss to go nice - zurich - boston
- # [18:50] * Quits: ChrisL (clilley@public.cloak) ("Client combusted")
- # [18:51] <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
- # [18:51] * sgalineau ChrisL and missed the plane every time due to DST?
- # [18:51] <TabAtkins> Oh darn, this isn't for the right dates. Our Paris f2f is still 9-11, right?
- # [18:51] <Zakim> -??P1
- # [18:51] <sgalineau> no it's 11-13
- # [18:51] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
- # [18:51] <Zakim> Attendees were krit, plinss, JohnJansen, Stearns, +1.619.846.aaaa, jdaggett, glazou, shezbaig_wk, SylvaIng, Lea, fantasai, SimonSapin, TabAtkins_, [Microsoft], Rossen,
- # [18:51] <Zakim> ... +1.714.742.aabb, jerenkrantz, Bert, nvdbleek, MaRakow, tantek, Plh
- # [18:51] <TabAtkins> sgalineau: Oh, yay! I need to update my calendar.
- # [18:51] <TabAtkins> Whew.
- # [18:52] <sgalineau> we moved it so it aligns with the publishing workshop on the 16-17
- # [18:52] <sgalineau> in paris
- # [18:52] * sgalineau is a sucker for business class.
- # [18:52] <TabAtkins> Yussssss
- # [18:53] <TabAtkins> I'm finagling cheap hotels so I can do business on my next three flights.
- # [18:53] <sgalineau> airbnb can be pretty cheap
- # [18:54] <TabAtkins> Actually, I'm gonna see if I can rent the house that I got last time we were in paris.
- # [18:54] <TabAtkins> Because it was *awesome*.
- # [18:54] <TabAtkins> And super-cheap when split 7 ways. ^_^
- # [18:54] <liam> speaking of which I need to et my act together and advertise the Paris workshop
- # [18:54] <fantasai> TabAtkins: you probably want to check where it is wrt the meeting place
- # [18:54] <sgalineau> funny i'm not huge on the sharing housing thing on those trips
- # [18:54] <fantasai> TabAtkins: It's also nice not to have a long commute ^_^
- # [18:54] <TabAtkins> fantasai: It's next to the train, so whatevs.
- # [18:55] <TabAtkins> And in a nice dinner area.
- # [18:55] <sgalineau> fantasai, the high-order bit is business class :)
- # [18:55] <TabAtkins> Also: yes.
- # [18:55] <Ms2ger> I thought that was the sign bit
- # [18:55] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Yeah, but it can take an hour to get across Paris if you're far apart
- # [18:55] <sgalineau> it's both.
- # [18:55] <TabAtkins> Ms2ger: It's always positive when you're in business class.
- # [18:55] <sgalineau> business class gives you an extra 32 bits for free
- # [18:56] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Does this work? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013May/0542.html
- # [18:56] <TabAtkins> "free"
- # [18:56] <sgalineau> you just spend 128 bits to get them
- # [18:56] * fantasai lol
- # [18:56] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Yes.
- # [18:57] <sgalineau> btw Tab, for the September meeting you may want to wait a little. might fall in the AF summer prices which will start soon
- # [18:57] <sgalineau> i.e. business class ~$3500 round-trip
- # [18:57] <TabAtkins> sgalineau: Oh man, I didn't realize that.
- # [18:57] <TabAtkins> I was getting excited over the fare dropping $200
- # [18:57] <TabAtkins> I should definitely wait for it to drop another $2k. ^_^
- # [18:57] <sgalineau> yeah, many airlines drop business like a brick in the summer and around xmas
- # [18:57] * Quits: israelh (~israelh@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
- # [18:57] <TabAtkins> Awesome.
- # [18:58] <sgalineau> last winter I got enough miles to get a free buiness ticket; we bought my wife's for $3200 and took the A380 from LAX. Was really nice.
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- # [18:59] <glazou> can't beat my travel cost from my place to Paris, guys :-)
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- # [18:59] <TabAtkins> glazou: But I can probably match your cost to Tokyo. ^_^
- # [18:59] <sgalineau> glazou, I don't know. If I were you I'd probably do Paris-Dubai-Paris on Emirates business.
- # [19:00] <glazou> TabAtkins, this is what I see every morning in front of me going to work http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ch%C3%A2teau_de_Saint-Germain-en-Laye01.jpg
- # [19:00] <sgalineau> anyway; can't recall how far into September AF's summer price goes but it's worth waiting.
- # [19:00] <TabAtkins> glazou: I've still got better weather. ^_^
- # [19:00] <glazou> we get better food :-D
- # [19:00] <TabAtkins> glazou: Okay, point.
- # [19:00] <glazou> eheh
- # [19:00] <Ms2ger> And wine
- # [19:01] * Quits: MaRakow (~MaRakow@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
- # [19:01] <glazou> Ms2ger, well there are _excellent_ wines in california
- # [19:01] <sgalineau> google's food is pretty good
- # [19:01] <glazou> hey Ms2ger you'll be in brussels for the summit right ?
- # [19:01] <TabAtkins> sgalineau: Can't beat free. ^_^
- # [19:01] <sgalineau> definitely better than the average french cafeteria!
- # [19:01] <Ms2ger> glazou, I think I have to take away your French citizenship for that ;)
- # [19:01] <Ms2ger> And yeah, probably
- # [19:01] <glazou> cool
- # [19:01] <glazou> sgalineau, netscape's cafeteria in paris was _remarkable_
- # [19:02] <sgalineau> *was* :)
- # [19:02] <glazou> foie gras, lobster, +++
- # [19:02] <sgalineau> ah…I was wondering why Netscape folded. Now we know...
- # [19:02] <Ms2ger> Mm, that must have been when I was in elementary school
- # [19:02] <glazou> Ms2ger, lol
- # [19:02] <glazou> 2002
- # [19:02] <Ms2ger> Then it was :)
- # [19:02] <glazou> ah those babies of the web
- # [19:02] <sgalineau> yes, foie gras was probably mandatory back then
- # [19:02] <SimonSapin> Bert: can I get access to our CVS repo?
- # [19:03] <glazou> were you born when I started marking up content Ms2ger ?
- # [19:03] <SimonSapin> (The source of the Fonts spec is there)
- # [19:03] <Ms2ger> '91
- # [19:03] <glazou> LOL
- # [19:03] <Ms2ger> SimonSapin, I suggest moving it into hg instead
- # [19:03] <TabAtkins> Wait wait wait, lolwut.
- # [19:03] <TabAtkins> Why is the Fonts source still in CVS?
- # [19:03] <glazou> time to prepare my tiramisu for the dinner
- # [19:04] <glazou> if I can find the mascarpone...
- # [19:04] <sgalineau> oh man; i was in the military in 91
- # [19:04] <glazou> I was working already
- # [19:04] <glazou> ended my studies in sep'91
- # [19:05] <Ms2ger> Feel old already? :)
- # [19:05] <glazou> well
- # [19:05] <glazou> I read a famous guy who once said productivity decreases with age
- # [19:05] <glazou> I write more and better code than ever per day so...
- # [19:05] <glazou> not really :-D
- # [19:06] <glazou> sgalineau, you tried Edge Reflow and its responsive editing bar ?
- # [19:06] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: because jdagget likes to run the preprocessor locally, apparently
- # [19:06] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: He should just switch to mine.
- # [19:06] <sgalineau> glazou, yes?
- # [19:07] <Ms2ger> SimonSapin, or mine
- # [19:07] <glazou> sgalineau, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db3FSZnaJjc done in six hours from scratch in BlueGriffon...
- # [19:07] <TabAtkins> Ms2ger: Mine's more specialized for the CSSWG. ^_^
- # [19:07] <SimonSapin> well, that’s not up to me
- # [19:07] * fantasai might have to give up on sleep now, awake + jetlag
- # [19:08] <sgalineau> glazou: pretty cool. seen the responsive experiment in brackets?
- # [19:08] <glazou> yes
- # [19:08] <glazou> very similar to Rf but it's more a preview thing
- # [19:09] <sgalineau> well the combo with a good source editor is very nice
- # [19:09] <glazou> and I found a few big issues in particular when there are MQ'd rules in over-the-wire sheets
- # [19:09] <glazou> yes
- # [19:09] <glazou> agreed
- # [19:09] <glazou> have a good evening, guys
- # [19:10] <sgalineau> you too!
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- # [21:58] * Ms2ger wonders if plh has approved the Great Shortname Renaming already
- # [21:59] * plh I wasn't asked yet as far as I can tell
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- # [22:10] <krit> fantasai: ping
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- # [22:17] <plinss> plh: we can talk about it in tokyo...
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- # [23:49] <krit> plinss: ping
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- # [23:56] <plinss> krit: pong
- # [23:57] <krit> plinss: Hi. Is it ok to upload SVG filtes as test files for specification testing instead of HTML files?
- # [23:57] <plinss> yes, just be sure to include the proper metadata
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- # [23:58] <krit> plinss: The SVG WG came up with encoding the same information as our HTML model, are these meta data included in shepherd?
- # [23:58] <krit> plinss: can shepherd get the information from SVG files, which does not have <link> element for instance?
- # [23:59] <plinss> yes, there are some small differences form the HTML metadata
- # [23:59] <krit> plinss: ok, as long as the model for SVG works, I am absolutely happy :)
- # [23:59] <plinss> (looking for the wiki page)
- # Session Close: Thu May 23 00:00:00 2013
The end :)