/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2013-06-21 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Jun 21 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #css
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  20. # [01:25] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Not really sure how it's more complicated. :/
  21. # [01:25] <TabAtkins> You've got physical longhands, and you later want logical longhands. Seems the same as in padding-left/right versus padding-inline-start/end.
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  38. # [06:29] <curvedmark> i'm not a member css wg staff or a collaborator, but I have a question regarding the css2.1 spec. can i ask it here or I should use the mailing list instead (I'm pretty sure it's my misunderstanding of the spec, so not sure if it's appropriate to send everybody an email)?
  39. # [06:29] * Quits: cabanier (~cabanier@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  40. # [06:30] <liam> curvedmark, if it's a short question go for it
  41. # [06:30] <liam> don't know how many people are awake though :)
  42. # [06:33] <curvedmark> thanks. the question is, I can't find a rule in the spec that prevents me from vertically center #d2 this way, yet browsers seems to behave consistently on this one. I wonder what rules have I missed.
  43. # [06:33] <curvedmark> http://jsbin.com/ocadip/1/edit
  44. # [06:35] <curvedmark> the height of the containing block of #d2 is known, then why a percentage top of #d2 isn't calculated relatively to it?
  45. # [06:42] <liam> well, browsers today aren't really implemeting css 2.1
  46. # [06:43] <curvedmark> liam, by that can I assume you mean: 1. css2.1 does allow vertically centering a box this way. 2. all major browsers aren't css2.1 compliant?
  47. # [06:44] <liam> i mean 2, I don't know the answer to 1
  48. # [06:44] <curvedmark> liam, what, 2 is true?
  49. # [06:45] <liam> more precisely, they implement a mix of css 2 3 and 4, which in some cases changes css level 2 behaviour
  50. # [06:45] <liam> css 2.1 is pretty old really
  51. # [06:46] <curvedmark> so by that you mean css 3 and 4 aren't backward-compatible?
  52. # [06:46] <curvedmark> ok i might have digressed.
  53. # [06:46] <liam> well
  54. # [06:46] <liam> there were some bugs in older browsers
  55. # [06:47] <liam> older = , say, before IE9 and ff4
  56. # [06:48] <liam> (I find your jsbin slightly clearer if you add, border: 4px solid green; to #d1 by the way
  57. # [06:49] <liam> and if you add height and width of 100px to #d1 you'll get a result that might be closer to what you expect
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  59. # [06:52] <curvedmark> liam, the example assumes #d2 has a variable dimension, so I can't really set a dimension on #d1, otherwise it defeats the purpose. setting a borders shifts #d2, but I agree it can be clearer, let me try translucent backgrounds.
  60. # [06:52] <liam> curvedmark, maybe it wasn't clear to me what you were trying to show exactly, sorry
  61. # [06:53] <curvedmark> liam, my bad. i didn't describe it clearly enough. :)
  62. # [06:54] <liam> a lot of the open web platform / html 5 initiative is/was about documenting what browsers do, and getting them all to work the same way... css 2 was never really very precise
  63. # [06:54] <liam> we had a lot of problems with cases like this in XSL-Fo (which was based on css 2.0 originally)
  64. # [06:54] <curvedmark> liam, i found out that you can horizontally center a box with variable width this way, but shocked to find that it didn't work vertically.
  65. # [06:55] <curvedmark> so if I really want to dig deep in css, i shouldn't refer to the css spec?
  66. # [06:56] <liam> there are about 60 css specs :-)
  67. # [06:56] <curvedmark> i know :). i mean i shouldn't start with css2.1?
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  69. # [06:57] <liam> i'm afraid i don't have a good nswer to that one, i'm struggling with it too!
  70. # [06:58] <curvedmark> update version: http://jsbin.com/ocadip/1/edit
  71. # [06:58] <liam> i think css 2.1 is actually an ok start but understand that browsers have moved on, that there are bugs that were fixed, differences between the browsers etc
  72. # [06:58] <liam> caniuse.com is sometimes useful
  73. # [07:00] <curvedmark> but tbh, the rules involved in this example should be very fundamental (box model + relative position scheme), i doubt that later css spec ever changes that or browsers don't adhere to it.
  74. # [07:01] <liam> http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/css may also help, e.g. http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/css/properties/position
  75. # [07:01] <curvedmark> I highly suspect that this is a rule in css2.1 hidden somewhere that demands it.
  76. # [07:01] <liam> IE 6 didn't do the css box model exactly
  77. # [07:01] <curvedmark> *there is
  78. # [07:02] <liam> there could well be such a rule though
  79. # [07:02] <liam> sorry I can't answer for you - I suspect the people who can aren't around tonight (1am here)
  80. # [07:02] <liam> and I should be in bed :)
  81. # [07:03] <curvedmark> oh, thanks for you help, have a nice dream then. :)
  82. # [07:03] <liam> :)
  83. # [07:03] <curvedmark> you already helped a lot. :)
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  216. # [20:10] <leaverou> so shape-inside has been removed? I can't find it in shapes or any of the other specs. Has it been renamed?
  217. # [20:10] <leaverou> cc TabAtkins
  218. # [20:15] <SimonSapin> leaverou: it’s marked as "postponed" in css-shapes
  219. # [20:15] <leaverou> that's what I saw
  220. # [20:15] <leaverou> which is strange, cause there are implementations
  221. # [20:17] <stearns> I'm putting it in level 2
  222. # [20:17] <stearns> for a few reasons
  223. # [20:17] <stearns> 1. as currently defined, it depends on exclusions (which I think is the correct move)
  224. # [20:17] <stearns> 2. it has unsolved issues that shape-outside does not (overflow, sizing to content)
  225. # [20:18] <stearns> 3. I want level 1 to be done faster
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  248. # [22:56] * Joins: krit (~krit@public.cloak)
  249. # [22:56] * Joins: boblet (~uid1921@public.cloak)
  250. # [22:59] * Joins: darktears (~darktears@public.cloak)
  251. # [23:06] * Quits: krit (~krit@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  252. # [23:09] * Joins: krit (~krit@public.cloak)
  253. # [23:24] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak) ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
  254. # [23:25] * Quits: krit (~krit@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
  255. # [23:36] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak)
  256. # Session Close: Sat Jun 22 00:00:00 2013

The end :)