/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2013-06-24 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Jun 24 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #css
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  56. # [18:21] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Jun/0511.html Is "we" the Chrome team or CSS WG?
  57. # [18:31] <Ms2ger> Or just "we, TabAtkins"?
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  67. # [19:41] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin1: CSSWG
  68. # [19:42] * liam had read it as css wg because of mailing list reference
  69. # [19:42] <TabAtkins> liam: Precisely - it's kinda hard for the Chrome team to have discussed the issue previously on the CSSWG list. ^_^
  70. # [19:43] <liam> :)
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  91. # [23:00] <dbaron> TabAtkins, it took some thought for you to decide that elt.style.backgroundPosition="initial" should round-trip back to "initial" rather than to "0% 0%"?
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  93. # [23:00] * dbaron couldn't imagine it being any other way
  94. # [23:00] <TabAtkins> Yes?
  95. # [23:01] <TabAtkins> It seems potentially reasonable for "initial" to resolve away immediately, since it requires only language-level information to do so.
  96. # [23:01] <dbaron> despite some spec trying to change the definition of "specified value" to be a different form than the specified value
  97. # [23:01] <TabAtkins> Is that a dig at Cascade? Tell me how you really feel, please. ^_^
  98. # [23:01] <dbaron> probably, yes
  99. # [23:02] <dbaron> I think if "specified value" doesn't mean specified value anymore, we probably need another term for specified value
  100. # [23:02] <dbaron> though maybe I'm biased here because Gecko has implemented initial for 14 years or so, so how it works seems pretty solidified to me
  101. # [23:03] <TabAtkins> For the purposes it was used, it's never meant "the value you specified". Note that, at minimum, there's a tension between "the value you specified in a particular style rule" and "the value that results from the cascade, before you do any additional processing".
  102. # [23:03] <dbaron> I guess so
  103. # [23:03] <TabAtkins> The latter being a decent hack at "the specified value of a given property for a given element".
  104. # [23:03] <dbaron> in which case, referring to "specified value" in any API that's looking at the rule data structures is silly
  105. # [23:03] <dbaron> since what's in an individual rule is way before the "specified value" in terms of cascade
  106. # [23:04] <dbaron> so maybe the problem is just that we don't have a term for that
  107. # [23:04] <TabAtkins> Additionally, there's a tension between reflecting the fact that a given value wasn't explicitly specified, and giving the starting value for the computed-value stage.
  108. # [23:04] <TabAtkins> Yeah, agreed.
  109. # [23:04] <TabAtkins> Let's invent one!
  110. # [23:05] <TabAtkins> It looks like Cascade more or less uses "the value of a declaration".
  111. # [23:05] <TabAtkins> If I didn't already know you'd object to the terminology change, I'd say we should change the current "specified value" to something more informative and less confusing. ^_^
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  113. # [23:07] <dbaron> TabAtkins, I don't mind dropping the term
  114. # [23:07] <dbaron> TabAtkins, I mind reusing it for something else
  115. # [23:07] <TabAtkins> Hm, okay.
  116. # [23:07] <TabAtkins> Ah.
  117. # [23:07] <TabAtkins> Well, how about "declared value" for the value of a declaration (the value that you get at the CSSStyleDeclaration level).
  118. # [23:08] <TabAtkins> And then something else for specified value that better suggests it's the starting point of the real value computation stages, or perhaps that it's the processed cascaded value.
  119. # [23:10] <dbaron> do we need a "specified value" concept there or is "cascaded value" enough?
  120. # [23:11] <TabAtkins> Depends on how fiddly we want to be with the values of the global keywords.
  121. # [23:11] <TabAtkins> We could just say that they alter the cascaded value.
  122. # [23:11] <TabAtkins> That is, if the cascaded value would be one fo the global keywords, it's instead xxx.
  123. # [23:16] <TabAtkins> dbaron: Just sent mail to the list about this.
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The end :)