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- # Session Start: Wed Aug 21 00:00:00 2013
- # Session Ident: #css
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- # [17:51] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/08/21-css-irc
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- # [17:51] <plinss> zakim, this will be style
- # [17:51] <Zakim> ok, plinss; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
- # [17:51] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
- # [17:52] <Zakim> +plinss
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- # [17:55] <Zakim> +??P11
- # [17:55] <glenn> zakim, ??p11 is me
- # [17:55] <Zakim> +glenn; got it
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- # [17:56] <krit> Did we change passcode?
- # [17:56] * nvdbleek zakim, code?
- # [17:56] * Zakim saw 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org) given for the conference code, nvdbleek
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- # [17:56] <Zakim> +??P5
- # [17:56] <florian> Zakim, I am ??P5
- # [17:56] <Zakim> +florian; got it
- # [17:57] <Zakim> +??P24
- # [17:57] <Zakim> +dael
- # [17:57] <Zakim> +??P22
- # [17:57] <krit> hm, this pass code is not valid for me
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- # [17:57] <Zakim> +nvdbleek
- # [17:57] <plinss> zakim, who is noisy?
- # [17:57] <Zakim> plinss, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: florian (43%), ??P22 (4%)
- # [17:58] * Zakim hears ??P22's hand up
- # [17:58] * Zakim sees ??P22 on the speaker queue
- # [17:58] <leif> Zakim, ??P22 is me
- # [17:58] <Zakim> +leif; got it
- # [17:58] <florian> weird, I was supposed to me on mute from this side
- # [17:58] <Zakim> +c_palmer
- # [17:58] <jerenkrantz> Zakim, c_palmer has jerenkrantz
- # [17:58] <Zakim> +jerenkrantz; got it
- # [17:58] <Zakim> +antonp
- # [17:58] <Zakim> +dbaron
- # [17:58] * nvdbleek zakim, mut me
- # [17:58] * Zakim I don't understand 'mut me', nvdbleek
- # [17:58] * nvdbleek zakim, mute me
- # [17:58] * Zakim nvdbleek should now be muted
- # [17:59] <Zakim> +fantasai
- # [17:59] <Zakim> +TabAtkins
- # [17:59] <Zakim> +rhauck
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- # [17:59] * krit can not call in. 78953: this passcode is not valid
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- # [17:59] <Zakim> +??P29
- # [17:59] * TabAtkins just keep doing it
- # [18:00] * dbaron krit, are you muting before dialing the passcode?
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- # [18:00] * dbaron krit, only mute after dialing it; it tends to not pick up the first digit if there's no other sound on the line
- # [18:00] <leif> q-
- # [18:00] * Zakim sees ??P22 on the speaker queue
- # [18:00] <Zakim> +smfr
- # [18:00] <leif> q- ??P22
- # [18:00] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
- # [18:00] <Zakim> +Bert
- # [18:01] * leif learning about Zakim
- # [18:01] * tantek is on irc only for this telcon.
- # [18:01] <Zakim> +hober
- # [18:01] * TabAtkins changes topic to 'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Aug/0388.html'
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- # [18:01] <Zakim> +??P3
- # [18:01] <antonp> ScribeNick: antonp
- # [18:01] <Zakim> +krit
- # [18:02] * krit dbaron hm, muting and unmuting solved it :P thanks
- # [18:02] <SimonSapin> Zakim, ??P3 is me
- # [18:02] <Zakim> +SimonSapin; got it
- # [18:02] <Zakim> -??P29
- # [18:02] <Zakim> +??P1
- # [18:03] <antonp> TOPIC: extra items for agenda
- # [18:03] * plh zakim, call plh-work
- # [18:03] * Zakim ok, plh; the call is being made
- # [18:03] <Zakim> +Plh
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- # [18:03] <antonp> TabAtkins: Counter Styles to CR: lots of issues have come up, so let's not discuss this yet.
- # [18:03] <Zakim> +SylvaIng
- # [18:03] <antonp> TabAtkins: Loop back next week
- # [18:04] <antonp> plinss: Fonts CR transition will wait for John next week
- # [18:04] <antonp> TOPIC: Other spec transitions
- # [18:04] <dbaron> dbaron: Transitions and Animations are waiting on me to do a bunch of edits that I haven't had time to do.
- # [18:05] <antonp> smfr: I haven't had time to look through test cases, next step will be to put together issues based on behaviour in those tests
- # [18:05] <antonp> krit: I'm still working on tests
- # [18:05] <antonp> plinss: Will they be ready for F2F?
- # [18:05] <antonp> krit: unlikely.
- # [18:06] <antonp> dbaron: 50/50 chance of getting my edits done for f2f
- # [18:06] <antonp> plinss: Let's try to get this spec advancing
- # [18:06] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
- # [18:06] <antonp> TOPIC: Selectors 4
- # [18:06] <TabAtkins> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Aug/0076.html
- # [18:06] <MaRakow> Zakim, [Microsoft] is me
- # [18:06] <Zakim> +MaRakow; got it
- # [18:06] <antonp> 2.a. Drag and Drop
- # [18:06] <krit> TabAtkins++
- # [18:06] <antonp> TabAtkins: Great response to the survey; let's do this kind of thing again!
- # [18:07] <antonp> s/2.a./a./
- # [18:07] * leif results: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Aug/0265.html
- # [18:07] <plinss> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmRB4Bq4bNRBdEw4TlU5cGNTNGQ1VHF4ZFFORTFoTkE&usp=sharing
- # [18:08] <antonp> [...] One of the consistent themes: People like the repeated part of the name come first.
- # [18:08] <antonp> florian: The functional notation is interesting if you plan to extend. Do you?
- # [18:09] <antonp> TabAtkins: Useful part: combine multiple keywords inside of the functional notation, gains readability
- # [18:09] <antonp> florian: All the suggestions [in leif's link] look reasonable, err towards third
- # [18:10] <antonp> Bert: I prefer to avoid parenthesis, which makes things look like a formula / maths
- # [18:10] <sgalineau> Bert: url() looks like math?
- # [18:10] <antonp> fantasai: we also have the option of doing pseudo-classes with parts reversed, which gets repeated part of the name to come first
- # [18:11] * Bert yes, we even called it a "functional notation."
- # [18:11] <antonp> TabAtkins: if you put 'drop' first, it looks like a verb rather than an element. This makes it awkward to put it first if you just dash-separate the words
- # [18:11] <antonp> fantasai: fair enough
- # [18:11] <Bert> s/Bert:/Bert,/
- # [18:11] <TabAtkins> s/element/noun/
- # [18:11] <antonp> plinss: Any strong opinions, or we go to straw poll?
- # [18:12] * sgalineau bike-shed: avoid;
- # [18:12] <Zakim> -rhauck
- # [18:13] <antonp> [Discussion of valid and invalid]
- # [18:13] <fantasai> plinss: Need to define :drop() by itself, no arguments
- # [18:13] <plinss> zakim, who is on the phone?
- # [18:13] <Zakim> On the phone I see plinss, glenn, florian, ??P24, dael, leif, nvdbleek (muted), c_palmer, antonp, dbaron, fantasai, TabAtkins, smfr, Bert, hober, SimonSapin, krit, ??P1, Plh,
- # [18:13] <fantasai> fantasai: Yeah, would mean all possible drops
- # [18:13] <Zakim> ... SylvaIng, MaRakow
- # [18:13] <Zakim> c_palmer has jerenkrantz
- # [18:13] <fantasai> plinss: Do you wnat invalid + valid?
- # [18:13] <florian> everything acceptable, 3rd prefered
- # [18:13] <fantasai> fantasai: Most people won't care wrt valid/invalid, so simple case would be using active-drop and drop
- # [18:13] <antonp> Poll: using the numbering in the e-mail
- # [18:13] <TabAtkins> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Aug/0265.html
- # [18:13] * Quits: tantek (~tpod@public.cloak) ("Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi")
- # [18:13] <sgalineau> 1. :current-drop / :valid-drop / :invalid-drop
- # [18:14] <sgalineau> 2. :active-drop / :valid-drop / :invalid-drop
- # [18:14] <antonp> 3. :drop(active) / :drop(valid) / :drop(invalid)#
- # [18:14] <sgalineau> 3. :drop(active) / :drop(valid) / :drop(invalid)
- # [18:14] <antonp> [above is a list of the options]
- # [18:14] <TabAtkins> 3
- # [18:14] <sgalineau> 3
- # [18:14] <fantasai> 2 or 3
- # [18:14] <smfr> 2
- # [18:14] <florian> 3,(no objection to the rest)
- # [18:14] <plinss> 3
- # [18:15] <Bert> 1 or 2
- # [18:15] <SimonSapin> 2 or 3
- # [18:15] <leif> 3 or 2
- # [18:15] <antonp> antonp: 2
- # [18:15] <plh> 2
- # [18:15] <jerenkrantz> 3
- # [18:15] <hober> 2, 1
- # [18:15] <dbaron> 2 (or maybe just abstain)
- # [18:15] * Joins: Rossen (~Rossen@public.cloak)
- # [18:15] <Zakim> -nvdbleek
- # [18:16] <TabAtkins> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Aug/0265.html
- # [18:16] <dbaron> though we should also note that (1) won the poll
- # [18:16] * sgalineau what part of the question implied an OR?
- # [18:16] <plinss> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Aug/0265.html
- # [18:16] * sgalineau come on people. Pick one. YOU CAN DO IT.
- # [18:16] * plh 4? :)
- # [18:16] <florian> to dbaron, yes but 2 wasn't in the poll, and is more similar to 1 than to any other option actually in the poll
- # [18:17] * leif oops! I meant to vote for the poll winner as second choice, so my preference would be 3, with 1 as backup
- # [18:17] <SimonSapin> if picking one, s/2 or 3/3/
- # [18:17] * Rossen sylvaing you mean pick 1 or one? :)
- # [18:17] <TabAtkins> #1 = 2 votes, #2 = 8 votes, #3 = 8 votes
- # [18:17] <antonp> plinss: Is there anyone who can't live with 2 or 3?
- # [18:18] <Zakim> +nvdbleek
- # [18:18] <Rossen> 3
- # [18:18] <nvdbleek> zakim, mute me
- # [18:18] <Zakim> nvdbleek should now be muted
- # [18:18] <antonp> plinss: Let's call it 3 then, and move one
- # [18:18] <antonp> s/one/on/
- # [18:19] <antonp> Subtopic: b. Comma separated attribute value selectors
- # [18:19] <antonp> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Aug/0331.html
- # [18:19] <SimonSapin> do it
- # [18:19] <antonp> TabAtkins: It's about adding comma-separated values
- # [18:19] <antonp> to the attribute selectors, as syntactic sugar
- # [18:19] <antonp> ... to Selectors 4
- # [18:19] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
- # [18:20] <antonp> florian: Is there an issue with the comma?
- # [18:20] <antonp> TabAtkins: comma is not part of an ident, if you want it you can use a string
- # [18:20] * Joins: cabanier (~cabanier@public.cloak)
- # [18:20] <TabAtkins> [foo=a,b,c] === :matches([foo=a], [foo=b], [foo=c])
- # [18:20] <antonp> dbaron: I'm concerned about readability
- # [18:20] <TabAtkins> === [foo=a], [foo=b], [foo=c]
- # [18:21] <antonp> Bert: Is it an AND or an OR?
- # [18:21] * Joins: tantek (~tpod@public.cloak)
- # [18:21] <antonp> plinss: It's an OR. Couldn't possibly be an AND.
- # [18:21] * Joins: Rossen_ (~Rossen@public.cloak)
- # [18:21] <Zakim> -MaRakow
- # [18:21] * Quits: Rossen (~Rossen@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
- # [18:21] <antonp> Bert: I think it adds complexity without adding fucntionality
- # [18:21] * Quits: Rossen_ (~Rossen@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
- # [18:21] <antonp> .. Use a preprocessor
- # [18:21] * sgalineau what I heard was 'if it's just usability we shouldn't do it'
- # [18:21] * Joins: Rossen (~Rossen@public.cloak)
- # [18:22] <antonp> TabAtkins: Just because you can use a preprocessor, it doesn't mean that we should. Puts a lot of overhead on
- # [18:22] <tantek> Happy to give into consensus here on bike shedding those UI pseudos.
- # [18:22] <antonp> Bert: eg Perl is easy to write, but hard to read. It's about readability.
- # [18:22] <TabAtkins> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/csswg/file/bb3efb2a3181/default.css#l171
- # [18:22] <Zakim> -??P1
- # [18:23] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
- # [18:23] <antonp> TabAtkins: In the link is an example
- # [18:23] <Rossen> zakim, microsoft has me
- # [18:23] <Zakim> +Rossen; got it
- # [18:23] * sgalineau notes Perl is always used as an example *because* it's such a readability outlier
- # [18:23] * sgalineau half of what my cat types on a keyboard is probably valid Perl
- # [18:23] <antonp> Bert: commas are small, and are easy to miss
- # [18:23] <TabAtkins> [data-link-type=property, propdesc, descriptor, value, fucntion, at-rule, selector, maybe]::before { ... }
- # [18:24] <antonp> Bert: I already have a problem with commas so I put clauses on separate lines
- # [18:24] <antonp> TabAtkins: That's good practice anyway.
- # [18:25] <antonp> Bert: The next thing you'll want to add is regular expressions! Bad direction
- # [18:25] <antonp> TabAtkins: I don't like slippery slope arguments. I'm not planning to add those.
- # [18:26] * sgalineau as my cat sleeps with my dog I am generally immune to slippery slope arguments.
- # [18:26] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
- # [18:26] <antonp> SimonSapin: Implementation-wise, it doesn't add much complexity if we already have 'matches'
- # [18:26] <antonp> TabAtkins: It can sort of be the inverse of matches if you need to internally
- # [18:26] <antonp> plinss: How will it serialize?
- # [18:26] * Quits: rhauck (~rhauck@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
- # [18:26] <sgalineau> straw poll?
- # [18:27] <antonp> TabAtkins: <replies>
- # [18:27] <fantasai> +!
- # [18:27] * Zakim wonders where ! is
- # [18:27] <fantasai> +1
- # [18:27] <florian> +1
- # [18:27] <Bert> -1
- # [18:27] <SimonSapin> +1
- # [18:27] <TabAtkins> +1
- # [18:27] <smfr> +1
- # [18:27] <jerenkrantz> (+1 is for commas? -1 is against?)
- # [18:27] <sgalineau> +1
- # [18:27] <fantasai> (jerenkrantz, yes)
- # [18:28] <jerenkrantz> +1
- # [18:28] <dbaron> -1
- # [18:28] <hober> +0.75
- # [18:28] * sgalineau HOW DARE YOU SPEAK TO USERS WHO AGREE WITH YOU
- # [18:28] <antonp> antonp: abstain
- # [18:29] <dbaron> p[class, id]
- # [18:29] <sgalineau> dbaron, do you mean [foo=1,bar=2]?
- # [18:29] <antonp> dbaron: why does comma have lower precedence than equals sign? Attribute selectors can take 'attribute' or can take 'attribute = value'.
- # [18:29] <dbaron> p[class=foo, id]
- # [18:29] <dbaron> p[class=foo, class=id]
- # [18:29] <antonp> dbaron: the second example I typed is conceptually the same as the third
- # [18:30] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
- # [18:30] <antonp> fantasai: I don't see this as being a problem. Commas are lower precedence than = in HTML (eg class="foo,bar" - the value of class becomes "foo,bar")
- # [18:30] <antonp> fantasai: Having the same pattern in CSS makes sense to me
- # [18:30] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
- # [18:31] <TabAtkins> "class=foo,bar"
- # [18:31] <antonp> plinss: I do see dbaron's point. SHouldn't we do this for all the other types of selectors not just = ?
- # [18:31] <antonp> TabAtkins: YEah, it's not just for =
- # [18:31] <antonp> plinss: p[class, id] is invalid?
- # [18:31] <antonp> TabAtkins: yes
- # [18:32] * antonp likes this even less now, in the light of dbaron's comment
- # [18:32] * smfr likes this less now too
- # [18:32] * Quits: tantek (~tpod@public.cloak) ("Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi")
- # [18:32] <SimonSapin> I see the precedence argument as well
- # [18:32] <antonp> TabAtkins: We could take this back and think about it some more
- # [18:33] <sgalineau> in favor of thinking about it more
- # [18:33] <antonp> TabAtkins: Let's do that.
- # [18:33] <TabAtkins> s/it/syntax/
- # [18:33] <antonp> plinss: OK, so not accepted for now, but you can raise it again later if you want.
- # [18:33] <antonp> fantasai: Nothing else to discuss today, will bring more stuff later.
- # [18:34] <plinss> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Aug/0224.html
- # [18:34] <antonp> TOPIC: Scroll Snapping
- # [18:34] <dbaron> I think I gave a list of things in selectors4 I'm still iffy on at the end (?) of last week's telecon.
- # [18:34] <antonp> plinss: interesting comment from roc
- # [18:34] <antonp> plinss: anyone interested?
- # [18:34] <antonp> TabAtkins: I'm in favour and could be an editor on this
- # [18:34] <antonp> smfr: I like it and would like to see it advanced
- # [18:34] <antonp> Rossen: We're also interested I think
- # [18:35] <antonp> plinss: OK, hearing strong support
- # [18:35] <antonp> TabAtkins: Separate spec I'd prefer
- # [18:35] <antonp> fantasai: It might fit in to UI
- # [18:35] <antonp> .. but let's start it as a separate spec
- # [18:35] <dbaron> Rossen^: have Matt Rakow with me, who's a member of the WG and our lead (?) on this
- # [18:35] <antonp> TabAtkins: I think it's likely that this spec could grow
- # [18:36] <antonp> plinss: sticky positioning?
- # [18:36] <antonp> fantasai: No, that's positioning, not scrolling
- # [18:36] <antonp> Bert: It's related to overflow isn't it?
- # [18:36] <antonp> TabAtkins: This is about scrolling behaviour, not about all the other stuff surrounding overflow, so it makes sense to me to keep it separate
- # [18:37] <antonp> Bert: It doesn't relate to marquee but all other modes are affected
- # [18:37] <antonp> TabAtkins: Paged overflow isn't affected
- # [18:37] <antonp> Bert: sure it is, in paged media
- # [18:37] <antonp> TabAtkins: No, I don't think so
- # [18:37] * smfr florian sounds like he's using a tin can
- # [18:37] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
- # [18:37] * sgalineau smfr, sounds like?
- # [18:38] <antonp> plinss: OK, let's start as a separate doc and fold it in to something else later
- # [18:38] <antonp> RESOLVED: accept work on these properties
- # [18:38] <antonp> TOPIC: CSS Color 4
- # [18:38] <SimonSapin> https://rawgithub.com/tabatkins/specs/master/css-color/Overview.html
- # [18:38] <antonp> TabAtkins: It's "which of these proposed things do we want to pursue"
- # [18:39] <TabAtkins> http://tabatkins.github.io/specs/css-color/Overview.html#changes-from-3
- # [18:39] <antonp> Adding 4- and 8-digit hex colours has been a long-standing author request
- # [18:39] <Bert> s/in paged media/in interactive paged media/
- # [18:40] <antonp> #1 is something we should fix because it's a common authoring error
- # [18:40] <antonp> Problem when doing something in JavaScript, have to round, floor etc
- # [18:40] <antonp> #4 is also for author convenience
- # [18:40] <antonp> #2 and #3 are less so, but are nice
- # [18:41] <antonp> This spec pulls in dbaron's color correction proposal
- # [18:41] <antonp> TabAtkins: I'm fine with taking over editing that
- # [18:41] <antonp> ... There are also some other nice things
- # [18:41] * florian I've tried 3 different headsets over skype and 2 different ones and without a headset on the phone using SIP, and no matter what I do, I always have terrible voice sound. it is getting annoying...
- # [18:41] <antonp> [plinss and TabAtkins discuss #1]
- # [18:42] <dbaron> florian, it sounded maybe like your software switching compression algorithms dynamically
- # [18:42] * sgalineau florian, it's probably you...:)
- # [18:42] <fantasai> plinss: Concern about interpreting number as 0-1
- # [18:43] <fantasai> TabAtkins: No, use % for that. Number would be 0-255
- # [18:43] <antonp> dbaron: I'm not crazy about adding syntactic sugar in general, because it adds more compatibility hurdles
- # [18:43] <sgalineau> +1 to dbaron. your sound quality varies; which tends to happen given enough latency
- # [18:43] <antonp> dbaron: It might be worth doing for color stuff, given the demand, but I'm not sure it's high priority
- # [18:43] <antonp> TabAtkins: surde
- # [18:43] <antonp> s/surde/sure/
- # [18:43] <sgalineau> may not be high priority, but is it expensive?
- # [18:44] <antonp> glenn: [...]
- # [18:44] <smfr> i like them
- # [18:44] <glenn> glenn: TTML specifies use of a #rrggbbaa syntax since 2010
- # [18:44] <antonp> TabAtkins: The compat issue applies reasonably to #2 and #3.
- # [18:44] <antonp> .. but #1 and #4 are fixing stuff
- # [18:45] <antonp> plinss: How many people use HWB notation?
- # [18:45] <krit> some SVG authoring tools use #rrggbbaa internally as well like inkscape
- # [18:45] <antonp> TabAtkins: Used in SASS, tint and shade is used quite a lot
- # [18:45] <antonp> SimonSapin: what is HWB?
- # [18:45] <antonp> TabAtkins: Hue, Whiteness, Blackness. Transform easily from eg RGB
- # [18:46] <antonp> .. It's just an alternative that's intuitive
- # [18:46] <antonp> plinss: opinions?
- # [18:46] <antonp> plinss: ok, let's move forward
- # [18:46] <antonp> TabAtkins: I'm fine with pushing features out if we don't like them yet
- # [18:47] <antonp> TOPIC: Outline Properties (left over from f2f)
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- # [18:47] <dbaron> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013May/0668.html
- # [18:47] <antonp> dbaron: I sent a message about a bunch of cases in which there's no interop on outlines, and I'd like to hear what people think we should be doing
- # [18:48] <antonp> .. I guess there are 2 common differences: I think the spec is clear that an inline broken across multiple lines then you want the outline to surround the whole thing and not around the individual lines
- # [18:49] <antonp> .. Other thing was drawing the outline around the overflow, useful when eg image inside link. Gecko is probably only browser which does this)
- # [18:49] <antonp> smfr: webkit does that if outline thing is an inline, but doesn't if it's a block, IIRC
- # [18:49] <antonp> florian: interop problem if you apply a rotation, IIRC
- # [18:50] <antonp> TabAtkins: smfr, no we don't do anything special in the inline case
- # [18:50] <antonp> dbaron: One question that's fundamental is that "we should optimize for focus outlines"
- # [18:51] <antonp> .. But authors like to use outlines for other things, like "border which doesn't affect layout". Hence they demand better interop... but we should ask how much we care about that and similar use cases.
- # [18:51] <antonp> dbaron: With Gecko, it's becoming harder to maintain in the presence of 3d transforms
- # [18:52] <antonp> .. I've been inclined to just drop the beaviour of overflow
- # [18:52] <Zakim> -c_palmer
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- # [18:52] <antonp> ... despite the entire demand coming from authors using it for non-focus use cases
- # [18:52] <antonp> Rossen: How are authors using this reliably if you guys are the only ones doing this
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- # [18:52] <antonp> dbaron: They was interop and are complainig to us
- # [18:53] <antonp> krit: [...]
- # [18:53] <antonp> plinss: OK, two issues: Does the outline contain overflow content? What's it's behaviour on wrapped inline elements?
- # [18:53] <antonp> dbaron: The overflow one is the main one I think
- # [18:53] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
- # [18:53] <antonp> plinss: on the overflow topic, what do people think?
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- # [18:54] <krit> s/[…]/There is strange behavior on outline in WebKit,Blink on things that create a stacking context from time to time/
- # [18:54] <antonp> dbaron: I have mixed feelings about supporting this case
- # [18:54] <antonp> plinss: maybe we should introduce a property to control this behaviour?
- # [18:54] <antonp> dbaron: Seems like overkill to me...
- # [18:55] <antonp> krit: Regarding outline on svg, most browsers don't even support it. So the spec is a bit week
- # [18:55] <antonp> smfr: In webkit we use different behaviour for focus ring(?) than with outlines
- # [18:55] <antonp> .. if outline style is auto, we fall into focus ring behaviour which does go around overflow content
- # [18:56] <antonp> plinss: suggestions for path forward on these issues? We have test cases, but do we need more discussion etc?
- # [18:56] <antonp> dbaron: I may want to look into webkit behaviour some more, given what smfr said
- # [18:56] <Zakim> -hober
- # [18:57] <Zakim> -smfr
- # [18:57] <antonp> plinss: bye everyone
- # [18:57] <Zakim> -leif
- # [18:57] <Zakim> -Plh
- # [18:57] <Zakim> -SylvaIng
- # [18:57] <Zakim> -dbaron
- # [18:57] <Zakim> -glenn
- # [18:57] <Zakim> -fantasai
- # [18:57] <Zakim> -florian
- # [18:57] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
- # [18:57] <Zakim> -dael
- # [18:57] * Parts: leif (~lstorset@public.cloak) (leif)
- # [18:57] <Zakim> -Bert
- # [18:57] <Zakim> -antonp
- # [18:57] <Zakim> -TabAtkins
- # [18:57] <Zakim> -plinss
- # [18:57] <Zakim> -nvdbleek
- # [18:57] * Quits: dael (~dael@public.cloak) (dael)
- # [18:57] <Zakim> -SimonSapin
- # [18:57] * Quits: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak) (nvdbleek)
- # [18:57] <Zakim> -krit
- # [18:57] * Quits: antonp (~Thunderbird@public.cloak) (antonp)
- # [18:57] <Zakim> -??P24
- # [18:57] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
- # [18:57] <Zakim> Attendees were plinss, glenn, florian, dael, nvdbleek, leif, jerenkrantz, antonp, dbaron, fantasai, TabAtkins, rhauck, smfr, Bert, hober, krit, SimonSapin, Plh, SylvaIng, MaRakow,
- # [18:57] <Zakim> ... Rossen
- # [19:00] <florian> dbaron: the outline on this TC behaves differently between gecko/webkit vs presto
- # [19:00] <florian> http://files.florian.rivoal.net/outline.html
- # [19:00] <florian> I don't have IE here to test what it does
- # [19:01] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
- # [19:03] <Bert> I like Opera's outline best.
- # [19:05] <florian> I think the problem with firefox's and webkit's approach is when you start to have 3d transforms. I don't think transforming the outline in 3d is a good idea.
- # [19:05] <florian> it works ok when people use it as a second border, but not when it is supposed to related to focusing
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- # [19:07] <Bert> Yes, imagine tabbing through a document, e.g., with the remote of your TV. When the outline changes too much from one element to another, you'll have a hard time finding where it went.
- # [19:10] <florian> Let's move this conversation to the mailing list, I have to go
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The end :)