/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2013-10-10 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Oct 10 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #css
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  26. # [04:38] <heycam> for those of you who already applied for a visa to China, which category did you choose? "F" for "Exchanges, visits, study tours and other activities", or one of the others?
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  28. # [05:35] <cabanier> heycam: it didn't seem to matter. I picked visit but the choices for the us are probably different.
  29. # [05:35] <cabanier> heycam: you have an invitation, right?
  30. # [05:35] <heycam> cabanier, I do
  31. # [05:35] <cabanier> heycam: I think that's the most important part
  32. # [05:35] <heycam> cabanier, ok :)
  33. # [05:35] <heycam> we'll see I guess
  34. # [05:36] <cabanier> heycam: are you going to take the ferry?
  35. # [05:36] <cabanier> heycam: alan and I come in really late so we have to take a train.
  36. # [05:36] <heycam> cabanier, not sure yet whether the ferry or the MTR will be quicker/easier
  37. # [05:36] <heycam> I'll arrive in KHG at 17:25
  38. # [05:36] <heycam> *HKG
  39. # [05:37] <cabanier> heycam: with the ferry you don't have to go through immigration in hong kong
  40. # [05:37] <cabanier> heycam: that will save a lot of time
  41. # [05:37] <heycam> cabanier, ok that's an advantage
  42. # [05:37] <heycam> oh I'm arriving on Saturday night btw
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  44. # [05:38] <cabanier> we'll get there on thursday so we can attend ttwf on saturday
  45. # [05:39] <cabanier> land at 23:30 :-(
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  140. # [21:22] <TabAtkins> krit1: What spec is causing the problem you're running into?
  141. # [21:23] <krit1> Masking
  142. # [21:23] <krit1> TabAtkins: --^
  143. # [21:23] <TabAtkins> Is the src that causes issues already committed?
  144. # [21:23] <TabAtkins> Oh, that's in the FXTF, right?
  145. # [21:23] <krit1> argh
  146. # [21:24] <krit1> TabAtkins: it is a problem in combination with <script defer=defer src="https://test.csswg.org/harness/annotate.js#CSS-MASKING_DEV" type="text/javascript"></script>
  147. # [21:24] <krit1> TabAtkins: If I remove the script reference it works fine
  148. # [21:25] <TabAtkins> Ah, I see the issue.
  149. # [21:26] <TabAtkins> The Markdown converter doesn't handle <script> and </script> on the same line. One sec.
  150. # [21:29] <krit1> TabAtkins: a newline on script fixes it indeed
  151. # [21:29] <TabAtkins> Hm, I definitely see the issue in the code, but I'm having trouble reproducing it in another spec.
  152. # [21:30] <krit1> TabAtkins: not sure what else could be different :/
  153. # [21:31] <TabAtkins> Oh, no, I see it. Look like it gets closed by something further in my document. If I look early enough, I see the merged paragraphs.
  154. # [21:31] <TabAtkins> Okay, fix incoming.
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  156. # [21:33] <TabAtkins> Okay, done.
  157. # [21:35] <krit1> TabAtkins: worked! thanks a lot
  158. # [21:43] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: time to bikeshed css-page… maybe
  159. # [21:44] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: You mean, convert it over?
  160. # [21:44] <TabAtkins> Okay.
  161. # [21:44] <SimonSapin> yes
  162. # [21:44] <TabAtkins> You doing it, or are you asking me to?
  163. # [21:44] <SimonSapin> I’ll start with the docs and ping you if I get stuck
  164. # [21:44] <TabAtkins> kk
  165. # [21:44] <TabAtkins> btw, is there any good way to stop work on one branch and switch to another, if you're not yet to a reasonable spot to commit in the first branch?
  166. # [21:45] <TabAtkins> Right now I just commit anyway, which leaves a junky commit there in the history.
  167. # [21:45] <TabAtkins> I could probably do --amend later when it's done, but then I have to remember to do so.
  168. # [21:45] <SimonSapin> git stash
  169. # [21:45] <TabAtkins> Is stash per-branch?
  170. # [21:45] <SimonSapin> no
  171. # [21:45] <SimonSapin> it’s a per-repo stack
  172. # [21:45] <TabAtkins> Oh, then that's not helpful. :/
  173. # [21:45] <TabAtkins> I stash all the time for lots of things.
  174. # [21:46] <SimonSapin> it’s ok for a quick fix on another branch, but not so much beyond a few hours IMO
  175. # [21:46] <SimonSapin> I tend to do commits with a message starting with WIP
  176. # [21:46] <SimonSapin> or just "WIP"
  177. # [21:46] <TabAtkins> Yeah, I guess that works.
  178. # [21:46] <SimonSapin> then amend
  179. # [21:47] <TabAtkins> And then if I remember later I can amend, yeah.
  180. # [21:47] <SimonSapin> and I tend to look at the commit graph all the time
  181. # [21:47] <TabAtkins> Ah, I don't.
  182. # [21:47] <SimonSapin> [alias] g = log --oneline --graph --all --decorate
  183. # [21:48] <SimonSapin> this too: [alias] o = ! git g --simplify-by-decoration
  184. # [21:48] <SimonSapin> (graph/overview)
  185. # [21:50] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: so, Bikeshed docs have a quick start, but new documents
  186. # [21:50] <SimonSapin> your blog has translating an old spec
  187. # [21:50] <TabAtkins> Yeah, and it's not very good as an actual guide.
  188. # [21:50] <SimonSapin> copy the latter into /docs?
  189. # [21:51] <TabAtkins> Well, probably want to fully rewrite it.
  190. # [21:51] <TabAtkins> To actually be a doc.
  191. # [21:55] <SimonSapin> do you use versioned URLs for the ED link in metadata?
  192. # [21:56] <TabAtkins> Use whatever you want. I don't.
  193. # [22:01] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: no comma in company name for editors, is that fixable?
  194. # [22:03] * Quits: antonp (~Thunderbird@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  195. # [22:04] <TabAtkins> Use an entity ref.
  196. # [22:04] <TabAtkins> Commas seemed to be the thing least likely to collide with names, though it does sometimes collide with company names.
  197. # [22:05] <SimonSapin> "Mozilla, formerly Kozea"
  198. # [22:05] <SimonSapin> since I did most of the work there
  199. # [22:05] <TabAtkins> "Mozilla&#44; formerly Kozea"
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  201. # [22:07] <stearns> mozilla-expletive
  202. # [22:08] <TabAtkins> Hehe
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  205. # [22:17] <SimonSapin> I wonder how much of these styles are really spec-specific https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/csswg/file/07124102230d/css-page/Overview.src.html#l10
  206. # [22:20] <TabAtkins> Well, there's no .editorial elements.
  207. # [22:20] <TabAtkins> And there shouldn't be any rfd2119 elements - those shouldn't be marked up at all.
  208. # [22:21] <TabAtkins> Any anyway, the styling for those is in default.css
  209. # [22:23] <SimonSapin> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-page/#conformance explicitly talks about RFC2119
  210. # [22:24] <SimonSapin> oh you mean no markup
  211. # [22:24] <TabAtkins> You can kill the #margin-values styling. The .data styling is sufficient for that table.
  212. # [22:25] <TabAtkins> If all the instances are down there in conformance, then whatever.
  213. # [22:25] <TabAtkins> And you can kill all the styles above #margin-values.
  214. # [22:25] <SimonSapin> no, normative text uses this markup as well
  215. # [22:26] <TabAtkins> They're either duplicating styles already present in default.css, or just don't match anything.
  216. # [22:26] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: Okay, removing that would be good.
  217. # [22:26] <TabAtkins> It's not our style to do so.
  218. # [22:26] <TabAtkins> Everything else in the styles is fine.
  219. # [22:27] <SimonSapin> Bikeshed’s boilerplate still has " However, for readability, these words do not appear in all uppercase letters in this specification. ", but not the corresponding text-transform style
  220. # [22:28] <TabAtkins> I don't understand what you mean.
  221. # [22:28] <SimonSapin> See for example http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-syntax/#conformance
  222. # [22:28] <SimonSapin> it has the quoted text
  223. # [22:29] <SimonSapin> but the keywords are upper case in the same paragraph
  224. # [22:30] <TabAtkins> Yes?
  225. # [22:31] <SimonSapin> it says "these words do not", but they do
  226. # [22:32] <TabAtkins> They don't *in the specification". They do in that paragraph, which is why that sentence exists.
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  229. # [22:32] <SimonSapin> hum, ok
  230. # [22:32] <SimonSapin> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-css3-page-20130314/#conformance looks different
  231. # [22:33] <SimonSapin> I guess that’s fine
  232. # [22:33] <TabAtkins> Yeah, it's using some different version of the boilerplate.
  233. # [22:33] <TabAtkins> Once you bikeshed it, it'll look like the other specs.
  234. # [22:33] <SimonSapin> the boilerplate is the same, but there is a text-transform: lowercase
  235. # [22:33] <TabAtkins> (Because you'll have deleted the boilerplate and let Bikeshed fill it in.)
  236. # [22:34] <TabAtkins> No, it's not the same - in bikeshed's version, there's no markup around those words at all.
  237. # [22:34] <SimonSapin> ok
  238. # [22:35] <SimonSapin> FATAL ERROR: 'value' definitions need to specify what they're for.
  239. # [22:35] <SimonSapin> Add a 'for' attribute to <dfn data-dfn-type="value"><span data-link-type="maybe" class="css">:left</span></dfn>, or add 'dfn-for' to an ancestor.
  240. # [22:36] <SimonSapin> could <dfn>'':left''</dfn> in the source trigger that?
  241. # [22:38] <TabAtkins> Yes, that looks like a value ref to bikeshed.
  242. # [22:38] <TabAtkins> It uses a pretty simplistic rule about use of '' inside of <dfn>.
  243. # [22:38] <TabAtkins> Just remove the quotes.
  244. # [22:38] <TabAtkins> I should probably make that smarter.
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  247. # [22:40] <SimonSapin> what definition type for @page selector pseudo-classes? They’re not "real" selectors
  248. # [22:41] <TabAtkins> Eh, still, mark them up that way.
  249. # [22:42] <TabAtkins> I need to make Bikeshed handle things are *might* use for=''.
  250. # [22:42] <TabAtkins> Right now it'll get angry at you, I think.
  251. # [22:42] <SimonSapin> maybe "value for @page" ?
  252. # [22:42] <TabAtkins> Still trying to figure out the best way to mark up things like a <type> defined only as a value of some property.
  253. # [22:48] <TabAtkins> stearns: What do you think of this treatment of value nesting in the index? http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-flexbox/#index
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  255. # [22:49] <stearns> TabAtkins: looks good to me - particularly for things like 'flex' that are both properties and values
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  257. # [22:50] <TabAtkins> stearns: Ah, I was referring specifically to the "Property Values" thing.
  258. # [22:50] <TabAtkins> But yeah, the other one was done yesterday or the day before.
  259. # [22:50] <TabAtkins> And I'm very happy with it.
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  261. # [22:51] <stearns> what do you mean by the "property values" thing?
  262. # [22:51] <TabAtkins> You may need to refresh again to see it.
  263. # [22:51] <stearns> dang, yes - I was looking at a cached copy
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  265. # [22:52] <stearns> yep, that looks good too
  266. # [22:52] <TabAtkins> I can't figure out how to denote property values on things that are ambiguous, like 'flex', without being either ugly or confusing.
  267. # [22:53] <stearns> would shorthand properties get this treatment anyway?
  268. # [22:53] <TabAtkins> Yeah.
  269. # [22:54] <stearns> I don't see it for flex-flow
  270. # [22:54] <TabAtkins> It's currently limited to properties, but any property with some values that point to it via for='' will show up.
  271. # [22:54] <stearns> ah, that one doesn't have links to its values
  272. # [22:54] <TabAtkins> Yup yup.
  273. # [22:54] * Quits: antonp (~Thunderbird@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  274. # [22:54] <stearns> I say ship it
  275. # [22:54] <TabAtkins> Sure.
  276. # [22:55] <stearns> (not sure if I'm the only one who ever actually looks at the indices) :)
  277. # [22:55] <TabAtkins> Hehe.
  278. # [22:55] <TabAtkins> All right, pushed.
  279. # [22:55] <stearns> thanks!
  280. # [22:55] <SimonSapin> does bikeshed autolinks to definitions from css3-background?
  281. # [22:56] <SimonSapin> "FATAL ERROR: No 'dfn' refs found for 'background painting area' that are marked for export."
  282. # [22:56] <SimonSapin> is css3-background missing an export marking?
  283. # [22:56] <TabAtkins> Well, the error seems pretty self-explanatory.
  284. # [22:56] <TabAtkins> Yup.
  285. # [22:56] <TabAtkins> You can override that by specifying spec='' on the link.
  286. # [22:56] <TabAtkins> Not sure if that's documented.
  287. # [23:02] <TabAtkins> Okay, documented now.
  288. # [23:03] * Joins: jet (~junglecode@public.cloak)
  289. # [23:04] * Joins: rhauck1 (~Adium@public.cloak)
  290. # [23:05] * Joins: antonp (~Thunderbird@public.cloak)
  291. # [23:05] * Quits: rhauck (~Adium@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  292. # [23:07] <TabAtkins> I wonder if there's *any* use for foo!!bar syntax anymore.
  293. # [23:07] <TabAtkins> I should go find all the instances of it in the anchor data and see how it's used.
  294. # [23:09] <SimonSapin> Bikeshed doesn’t like fantasai’s trick of having empty <a> elements for old anchors
  295. # [23:09] <SimonSapin> to keep links working
  296. # [23:10] * Quits: antonp (~Thunderbird@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  297. # [23:10] <SimonSapin> <span id="foo"></span> should work, and Bikeshed doesn’t complain
  298. # [23:12] * Joins: antonp (~Thunderbird@public.cloak)
  299. # [23:15] <TabAtkins> No, don't do that. Yeah, an empty <span id> works.
  300. # [23:15] * Joins: sgalineau (~sgalineau@public.cloak)
  301. # [23:15] <TabAtkins> I suppose I can make Bikeshed skip over <a name>.
  302. # [23:15] <TabAtkins> Or does she use <a id>?
  303. # [23:15] <TabAtkins> Well, both are reasoanble I guess.
  304. # [23:16] <SimonSapin> it was <a id>, but I switched to <span id>
  305. # [23:19] <stearns> TabAtkins: ah, I have the comma-in-metadata problem as well (Adobe Systems, Inc.) - the solution is expletivizing the comma?
  306. # [23:19] <TabAtkins> Yup.
  307. # [23:20] <stearns> ok
  308. # [23:20] <hober> expletivizing? ooof.
  309. # [23:20] <hober> where's horse_css when you need it
  310. # [23:20] <stearns> it's standard English word construction, so it's a word (to paraphrase someone-or-other)
  311. # [23:21] <SimonSapin> wow, look at how many definitions we have of min/max-content
  312. # [23:21] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: SO MANY
  313. # [23:24] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: Wait, I only see one definition, actually - in Box.
  314. # [23:25] <TabAtkins> (I thought there were more.)
  315. # [23:26] <SimonSapin> well, I want Sizing
  316. # [23:26] <SimonSapin> not sure what the \u2018max-content\u2019 business is about
  317. # [23:26] <TabAtkins> Oh jeez.
  318. # [23:26] <SimonSapin> (I’m grepping spec-data)
  319. # [23:26] <TabAtkins> Let me go fix Sizing.
  320. # [23:27] <TabAtkins> Argh, sizing is still on old processor.
  321. # [23:27] <TabAtkins> LET ME GO BIKESHED IT THEN
  322. # [23:31] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak) ("nn")
  323. # [23:37] <TabAtkins> Oh good lord, so many fatal errors.
  324. # [23:37] <TabAtkins> Two of which will require me to fix an old enhancement request to get rid of. :/
  325. # [23:43] <SimonSapin> How do I mark up properties that do not exist anymore? "The 'fit' and 'fit-position' properties are renamed to 'object-fit' and 'object-position'"
  326. # [23:44] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: ^
  327. # [23:44] <TabAtkins> Just mark them up as normal, and put them into the Ignored Terms metadata to silence warnings.
  328. # [23:44] <SimonSapin> well, it’s a fatal error
  329. # [23:45] * Quits: plh (plehegar@public.cloak) ("Leaving")
  330. # [23:45] <SimonSapin> \o/ First pass without fatal errors
  331. # [23:46] <TabAtkins> Yeah, Ignored Terms just prevents linking failures from doing anything.
  332. # [23:50] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: should I link to the Display spec yet for 'display'?
  333. # [23:50] <TabAtkins> Yeah, go for it.
  334. # [23:50] <SimonSapin> well, I probably don’t want Page Media to depend on it
  335. # [23:50] <SimonSapin> Bikeshed doesn’t have a 2.1 link
  336. # [23:51] <SimonSapin> apparently
  337. # [23:51] <TabAtkins> Interesting. It *should*, as it has other 2.1 links.
  338. # [23:51] <TabAtkins> Or, no! Bikeshed is seeing the Display module link, and auto-killing the 2.1 link for you.
  339. # [23:51] <TabAtkins> So you don't accidentally link there.
  340. # [23:51] <SimonSapin> hum
  341. # [23:51] <TabAtkins> Several specs are automatically suppressed if anything else defines terms from them.
  342. # [23:52] <TabAtkins> Just like Foo 3's definitions are suppressed by Foo 4.
  343. # [23:52] <SimonSapin> I not convinced an ED without FPWD should qualify
  344. # [23:52] <SimonSapin> does that change when generating a WD?
  345. # [23:52] <TabAtkins> Heh, then add it to Ignored Specs in autolink-config
  346. # Session Close: Fri Oct 11 00:00:00 2013

The end :)