/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2013-10-16 / end

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  75. # [14:53] <zcorpan_> hmm. http://dev.w3.org/csswg/mediaqueries4/#resolution doesn't talk about zoom
  76. # [15:07] <SimonSapin> zcorpan_: should it?
  77. # [15:08] <zcorpan_> yes
  78. # [15:09] <zcorpan_> see this thread <http://www.w3.org/mid/CAOp6jLacX6jEYsvL-k-XHTRKdeyO7xOvqW1rhoEYkRjH3D4+0g@mail.gmail.com>
  79. # [15:13] <SimonSapin> the current spec text (CSS px per device pixels) seems clear enough to me to answer, but maybe we want to change that answer
  80. # [15:16] <zcorpan_> CSS px per device pixel at what zoom level? does it change for page zoom (which affects ICB size), does it change for pinch zoom (which doesn't) ?
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  82. # [15:26] <SimonSapin> both types of zoom change the size of CSS px as measured by a physical ruler stuck on a screen, so strictly reading the current spec both affect 'resolution'
  83. # [15:26] <SimonSapin> which may not be what we want, in which case we’ll need to change the spec
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  88. # [16:21] <zcorpan_> right, the thread seems to conclude that page zoom should affect it but pinch zoom not
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  105. # [17:26] <TabAtkins> Yes, I need to figure out where to define the difference between viewport zoom and layout zoom.
  106. # [17:26] <TabAtkins> And figure out what names to use for those two concepts, because I think dbaron doesn't like them.
  107. # [17:27] <TabAtkins> Any ideas would be appreciated.
  108. # [17:28] <SimonSapin> "bikeshed zoom", to be renamed at LC? :)
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  142. # [17:53] * glazou and plinss are already on another call
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  152. # [17:54] <plinss> zakim, this will be style
  153. # [17:54] <Zakim> ok, plinss; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
  154. # [17:55] * glazou changes topic to 'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Oct/0436.html'
  155. # [17:55] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
  156. # [17:55] <Zakim> +dauwhe
  157. # [17:55] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
  158. # [17:55] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
  159. # [17:56] <Zakim> +plinss
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  164. # [17:56] <Zakim> +dael
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  172. # [17:57] <TabAtkins> Augh, I need to miss yet another meeting today. In Canada, doing conflicting things.
  173. # [17:57] <Zakim> +[Bloomberg]
  174. # [17:57] <jerenkrantz> Zakim, Bloomberg has me
  175. # [17:57] <Zakim> +jerenkrantz; got it
  176. # [17:57] <TabAtkins> And next week is the same, except I'll be in Denver.
  177. # [17:58] <Zakim> +Stearns
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  180. # [17:58] <Zakim> +??P27
  181. # [17:58] <glazou> TabAtkins, sigh
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  183. # [17:58] <Zakim> +SGalineau
  184. # [17:58] <glazou> TabAtkins, counter styles on agenda, do you have input for us?
  185. # [17:59] <TabAtkins> My topic doesn't need to be addressed - as I said in the email, I just haven't made the time for the edits yet.
  186. # [17:59] <glazou> Zakim, ??P27 is me
  187. # [17:59] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
  188. # [17:59] <glazou> ok
  189. # [17:59] <TabAtkins> I'll request CR advancement when I do.
  190. # [17:59] * glazou this is going to be a VERY short call apparently :-)
  191. # [17:59] * sgalineau 'doing conflicting things in canada' sounds pretty awesome
  192. # [17:59] <jerenkrantz> yay?
  193. # [17:59] <Zakim> +hober
  194. # [17:59] * sgalineau thinks glazou underestimates how long we can argue about GCPM
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  197. # [18:00] <Zakim> +Lea
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  199. # [18:00] <glazou> sgalineau, he's starting another us-canadian war
  200. # [18:00] <glazou> Zakim, who is on the phone?
  201. # [18:00] <Zakim> On the phone I see dauwhe, plinss, dael, [Bloomberg], Stearns, glazou, SGalineau, hober, Lea
  202. # [18:00] <Zakim> [Bloomberg] has jerenkrantz
  203. # [18:00] <Zakim> + +47.21.65.aaaa
  204. # [18:00] <stearns> glazou: the shapes item on the agenda hinges on whether fantasai agrees with the plan, so that might be short too
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  207. # [18:00] <Zakim> +[Adobe]
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  212. # [18:01] <Zakim> +antonp
  213. # [18:01] <Zakim> +??P62
  214. # [18:01] <leif> Zakim, I am ??P62
  215. # [18:01] <Zakim> +leif; got it
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  219. # [18:01] <plh3> zakim, passcode?
  220. # [18:01] <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), plh3
  221. # [18:01] <Zakim> +ChrisL
  222. # [18:01] <glazou> Zakim, who is on the phone ?
  223. # [18:01] <Zakim> On the phone I see dauwhe, plinss, dael, [Bloomberg], Stearns, glazou, SGalineau, hober, Lea, +47.21.65.aaaa, [Adobe], antonp, leif, ChrisL
  224. # [18:01] <Zakim> [Bloomberg] has jerenkrantz
  225. # [18:02] <Zakim> +plh
  226. # [18:02] * glazou hates making a phone call from a US hotel room given how noisy are the hotel room fridges
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  229. # [18:02] * plh3 zakim, mute me
  230. # [18:02] * Zakim plh should now be muted
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  232. # [18:02] <glazou> Zakim, aaaa is howcome
  233. # [18:02] <Zakim> +howcome; got it
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  236. # [18:03] <Zakim> +glenn
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  239. # [18:03] <dael> glazou: Let's start
  240. # [18:03] <Zakim> +Bert
  241. # [18:03] <Zakim> +??P68
  242. # [18:03] <dael> glazou: As usual, extra items?
  243. # [18:03] <Zakim> +fantasai
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  245. # [18:03] <dael> ???; ! about regions and overflow
  246. # [18:03] <dael> glazou: Anything else?
  247. # [18:03] <stearns> s/???/stearns/
  248. # [18:04] <dael> glazou: So we have a lot of regrets today, inc. Tab and he's not ready for CSS Counter Styles
  249. # [18:04] * Quits: antonp (~Thunderbird@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  250. # [18:04] <dael> Tpoic: GCPM
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  252. # [18:04] <dael> howcome: I can repeat in my e-mail but I think maybe...I have been in discussions with plh after my announcement
  253. # [18:05] * plh3 zakim, unmute me
  254. # [18:05] * Zakim plh should no longer be muted
  255. # [18:05] <dael> howcome: How a solution to con't in WHATWG and keep in W3C
  256. # [18:05] <dael> plh: I hope you can hear me
  257. # [18:05] <dael> plh: We want to avoid fragmentations and we have some ideas that allow us in WG
  258. # [18:05] <Zakim> +smfr
  259. # [18:05] <dael> plh: It would be better if can work together, but we haven't makde headway
  260. # [18:06] <dael> plh: We've been working on using community group so howcome can stay on own page and bring results to WG
  261. # [18:06] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
  262. # [18:06] <stearns> s/page/pace/
  263. # [18:06] * plh3 zakim, mute me
  264. # [18:06] * Zakim plh should now be muted
  265. # [18:06] <ChrisL> plh please repeat last sentence
  266. # [18:06] <plh3> .zum
  267. # [18:06] <florian> Zakim, [IPcaller] has me
  268. # [18:06] <Zakim> +florian; got it
  269. # [18:06] <ChrisL> or type it
  270. # [18:06] * plh3 zakim, unmute me
  271. # [18:06] * Zakim plh should no longer be muted
  272. # [18:06] <dael> howcome: I think i got the jist
  273. # [18:06] * Joins: abucur (~Adium@public.cloak)
  274. # [18:06] <Zakim> +SteveZ
  275. # [18:06] <Zakim> +??P83
  276. # [18:06] * Quits: plh (plehegar@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  277. # [18:07] <dael> plh: I think we need a task for howcome to do what he wants to do but contiubute ideas to WG
  278. # [18:07] <SimonSapin> Zakim, ??P83 is me
  279. # [18:07] <Zakim> +SimonSapin; got it
  280. # [18:07] <dael> florian: The question is howcome do you want to stay in WG?
  281. # [18:07] * plh3 zakim, unmute me
  282. # [18:07] * Zakim plh was not muted, plh3
  283. # [18:07] <dael> howcome: I think we need other names. I want to stay in WG and names books and figures are good
  284. # [18:07] <dael> howcome: I've studied that and want to stretch futher but not too far and hope for rapid devel
  285. # [18:08] <ChrisL> s/in WH/in WHATWG/
  286. # [18:08] <ChrisL> s/in WG/in WHATWG/
  287. # [18:08] <dael> howcome: I want to stay in WHATWG
  288. # [18:08] <dael> howcome: I think there's good thinking on both side and want this to be one work moving forward
  289. # [18:08] <dael> howcome: If we can move back into W3C and that's a good thing
  290. # [18:08] <glazou> q+
  291. # [18:08] * Zakim sees glazou on the speaker queue
  292. # [18:08] <dael> howcome: There's a bunch of spec. in WHATWG that go back into W3C
  293. # [18:09] <dael> howcome: What I haven't found examples of is SSP, is that right?
  294. # [18:09] * plh3 zakim, unmute me
  295. # [18:09] * Zakim plh was not muted, plh3
  296. # [18:09] <dael> plh3: Actually, I'm not sure if it was done.
  297. # [18:09] <dael> plh3: We're looking to do that for SSP as well
  298. # [18:09] <dael> s/SSP/SSA
  299. # [18:09] * Joins: SteveZ (~SteveZ@public.cloak)
  300. # [18:10] <dael> glazou: I hear what everyone says and we'll be glad if WHAT goes back into W3C
  301. # [18:10] <dael> glazou: the rec for Page FLoats is in the process, so I don't see what it changes between you in WG vs you in WHAT
  302. # [18:10] <dael> howcome: I think W3C is better to answer that. It won't be page flows it'll be books
  303. # [18:10] <ChrisL> q+
  304. # [18:10] * Joins: c_palmer (~c_palmer@public.cloak)
  305. # [18:10] * Zakim sees glazou, ChrisL on the speaker queue
  306. # [18:10] <dael> howcome: I think a lot of people want to bring it back into W3C
  307. # [18:11] <dael> howcome: If that requires time, so be it
  308. # [18:11] <sgalineau> q+
  309. # [18:11] * Zakim sees glazou, ChrisL, sgalineau on the speaker queue
  310. # [18:11] <dael> ???: Do you prefer model where changes from WHAT for back into WG, or where guar. names of GCPM are held
  311. # [18:11] <Zakim> +[Bloomberg.a]
  312. # [18:11] <stearns> s/???/krit/
  313. # [18:11] <dael> howcome: HTML is biggest inside WHAT and there's a nightly copy for that.
  314. # [18:11] <c_palmer> Zakim, [Bloomberg.a] is me
  315. # [18:11] <Zakim> +c_palmer; got it
  316. # [18:11] <dael> howcome: And then there's things with URL at slower pace
  317. # [18:12] <dael> glazou: It's not something to resolve today, I suspect some members will require more information
  318. # [18:12] <dael> glazou: How contirubutions go back and forth and that's normal
  319. # [18:12] <dael> howcome: I agree
  320. # [18:12] <dael> ???: I haev a question
  321. # [18:12] * Joins: darktears (~darktears@public.cloak)
  322. # [18:12] <ChrisL> s/???/sylvain
  323. # [18:12] <dael> ???: F2F feedback and later, the issue with GCPM is it wasn't specified enough
  324. # [18:13] <dael> sylvaing: Or where there were specifications there were issues
  325. # [18:13] <dael> sylvaing: How does moving WG change how the spec will be implemented?
  326. # [18:13] <ChrisL> q-
  327. # [18:13] * Zakim sees glazou, sgalineau on the speaker queue
  328. # [18:13] <glazou> q-
  329. # [18:13] * Zakim sees sgalineau on the speaker queue
  330. # [18:13] <dael> sylvaing: That's been the issue with GCPM for a long time
  331. # [18:13] <glazou> ack sgalineau
  332. # [18:13] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  333. # [18:13] <dael> sylvaing: How do the logistic make it move forward?
  334. # [18:13] <dael> howcome: Inside WHAT gives atmospehere to work more easily
  335. # [18:13] <dael> howcome: Tech issues you point out are realy but managable
  336. # [18:14] <dael> howcome: There are two implementations and they need to be tested and filled in but that hasn't stopped impl
  337. # [18:14] <Zakim> +??P6
  338. # [18:14] <ChrisL> 'fairly interoperable' with what tests?
  339. # [18:14] <dael> howcome: The issue at hand is managble and I can make fast progress
  340. # [18:14] * Quits: ChrisL (clilley@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  341. # [18:14] * leif Zakim, I am ??P6
  342. # [18:14] * Joins: ChrisL (clilley@public.cloak)
  343. # [18:14] * Zakim +leif; got it
  344. # [18:14] <dael> sylvaing: So there are things you could have done last year, so what's diffrent now
  345. # [18:14] <dael> howcome: Impl hasn't been mature at least, I don't remember when first CSS support released
  346. # [18:15] <dael> howcome: Impl is what's driving, and now there are mature ones
  347. # [18:15] <dael> howcome: I have time impl and want to do it
  348. # [18:15] <dael> glenn: I move we approve this work
  349. # [18:15] <dael> glazou: I don't think we have choice. howcome didn't ask permission
  350. # [18:15] <dael> glazou: This isn't decession my concencious
  351. # [18:15] <dael> plh3: I don't think it needs to be approved
  352. # [18:16] <ChrisL> s/my/by
  353. # [18:16] <glazou> s/decession my concencious/decision by consensus
  354. # [18:16] <dael> howcome: I think glenn approved WG is interested in hork and wants to take it back in again
  355. # [18:16] <dael> sylvaing: Or is Glenn saying that the WG agrees to not work on it anymore
  356. # [18:16] <ChrisL> s/hork/work/
  357. # [18:16] <dael> glenn: I withdraw, I just wanted to express support
  358. # [18:16] <dael> glazou: Fo what?
  359. # [18:16] <dael> glenn: For howcome to do this and bring back into WG in future
  360. # [18:17] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
  361. # [18:17] <dael> glazou: So howcome you said willing to cont/ outside of group and you're OK if group cont/ publish along normal track
  362. # [18:17] <dael> howcome: That's not what I'm prop. not yet. It's that you want to con't with GCPM and Page Floats
  363. # [18:17] <dael> glazou: Community groups don't do drafts
  364. # [18:17] <SimonSapin> s/drafts/specs/
  365. # [18:17] <dael> glazou: Community groups don't do specs, that needs to be done inside WG
  366. # [18:18] * plh3 zakim, unmute me
  367. # [18:18] * Zakim plh was not muted, plh3
  368. # [18:18] <dael> glazou: That means we need editors inside WG
  369. # [18:18] * sgalineau thinks CGs write specs, they're just not standards
  370. # [18:18] <ChrisL> s/specs/standards/
  371. # [18:18] <dael> plh3: I'm not sure I understand community groups.
  372. # [18:18] <dael> plh3: It's not W3C standards in community
  373. # [18:18] <dael> glazou: howcome does CG edits and we need to adapt them to make them pass rec track
  374. # [18:18] <dauwhe> q+
  375. # [18:19] <dael> glazou: That's editing work and who wants to do it
  376. # [18:19] * Zakim sees dauwhe on the speaker queue
  377. # [18:19] <dael> howcome: I think at some point if things are right I can bring it back again
  378. # [18:19] <dael> howcome: I can make sure specs are written to be easy to bring back
  379. # [18:19] * Quits: ChrisL (clilley@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  380. # [18:19] * Joins: ChrisL (clilley@public.cloak)
  381. # [18:19] <dael> howcome: I'm more hesistant to write test quite alone
  382. # [18:19] <plh3> s/understand community groups./understand what you mean with it's not a spec. it won't be a standard, but it is still a draft or a spec if you want/
  383. # [18:19] <glazou> ack dauwhe
  384. # [18:19] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  385. # [18:19] <SteveZ> q+ to ask if Hakon wants the WG to drop GCPM and Page-floats
  386. # [18:19] * Zakim sees SteveZ on the speaker queue
  387. # [18:19] <dael> dauwhe: Was one poss. that howcome was working on these things and we would try and maintain a parrallel?
  388. # [18:20] <dael> dauwhe: Or do we wait for howcome to be done and do new spec?
  389. # [18:20] <dael> glazou: I'm unable to answer. I don't know ETA on spec according to howcome
  390. # [18:20] <dael> glenn: However howcome says there's interop and it just needs test so that says time is now to bring to W3C
  391. # [18:20] <dael> howcome: and that's what I'm trying to do
  392. # [18:21] <glenn> s/glenn/chris/
  393. # [18:21] * sgalineau heard from publishers there were many interop issues, fwiw
  394. # [18:21] <dael> glazou: You said it wasn't perfect and intop was dificult in F2F
  395. # [18:21] <dael> glazou: You said before it was hard and now it's not
  396. # [18:21] <dael> howcome: You're trying to make it seem like I said two different things and I comm. this is e-mail
  397. # [18:22] <dael> howcome: there are 2 impl and they're close, I need to sift differences and I want to do that work
  398. # [18:22] <dael> howcome: ETA I think I can commit to 2013
  399. # [18:22] <dael> glenn: You mean 2 months
  400. # [18:22] <dael> howcome: For books. Page floats has more issues
  401. # [18:22] <glazou> s/glenn/ChrisL
  402. # [18:22] <dael> ChrisL: Thank you for clarifying. We're not trying to trip you up, we're trying to clarify
  403. # [18:22] <dael> ChrisL: You're saying there's some corner cases
  404. # [18:23] <dael> howcome: Yes, there's a small number. This isn't about designing new, this is tracking good features and writing them
  405. # [18:23] * Joins: MaRakow (~MaRakow@public.cloak)
  406. # [18:23] <dael> howcome: What I cannot commit is to writing the test suite
  407. # [18:23] <dael> glazou: I'd like to point out nothing says editor needs to write test alone
  408. # [18:23] <dael> howcome: I agree
  409. # [18:23] <plh3> q?
  410. # [18:23] * Zakim sees SteveZ on the speaker queue
  411. # [18:24] <dauwhe> q+
  412. # [18:24] * Zakim sees SteveZ, dauwhe on the speaker queue
  413. # [18:24] <dael> glazou: Given strength a month ago no one was willing to contrinute. Allt he effort in Paris was a good comprimise and was done in spitir to allow contr.
  414. # [18:24] <glazou> ack SteveZ
  415. # [18:24] <Zakim> SteveZ, you wanted to ask if Hakon wants the WG to drop GCPM and Page-floats
  416. # [18:24] * Zakim sees dauwhe on the speaker queue
  417. # [18:24] <dael> SteveZ: I'm going to switch topic, so if more to say you can con't
  418. # [18:24] <dael> SteveZ: What I wasn't to ask is do you want WG to officially drp GCPM and PAge and therefor release patents
  419. # [18:24] <dael> SteveZ: So you can persue indepentant and resubmit
  420. # [18:25] <dael> howcome: I'm not sure. Maybe there's a case to keep pat. in place
  421. # [18:25] <dael> howcome: I don't htink it's a good idea for someone else to take them over because the'll diverge.
  422. # [18:25] <dael> howcome: What we can do in spirit of working together is for me to set off, write spec write test and come back in Jan
  423. # [18:25] <SimonSapin> q+
  424. # [18:25] * Zakim sees dauwhe, SimonSapin on the speaker queue
  425. # [18:25] <dael> howcome: See what we have and make a choice
  426. # [18:25] <dael> ???: Had some case in Jan.
  427. # [18:25] <glazou> ack dauwhe
  428. # [18:25] * Zakim sees SimonSapin on the speaker queue
  429. # [18:26] <sgalineau> s/???/krit
  430. # [18:26] <sgalineau> s/case/f2f
  431. # [18:26] <ChrisL> q+
  432. # [18:26] * Zakim sees SimonSapin, ChrisL on the speaker queue
  433. # [18:26] <antonp1> s/Had some case in Jan/We have a F2F in Jan so there's a timeframe in place/
  434. # [18:26] <dael> dauwhe: Of course I joined late, but as a heavy user of GCPM I'm int. in it moving forward and willing to do whatever to prgress
  435. # [18:26] <stearns> s/???: Had some case/krit: we have a ftf/
  436. # [18:26] <dael> howcome: That's great to hear
  437. # [18:26] <dael> howcome: Having power users like you is good. WWWStyle will con't to have discussion no matter where pub.
  438. # [18:26] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  439. # [18:26] <glazou> ack ChrisL
  440. # [18:26] * Zakim sees SimonSapin on the speaker queue
  441. # [18:27] <florian> q+
  442. # [18:27] * Zakim sees SimonSapin, florian on the speaker queue
  443. # [18:27] <dael> SimonSapin: I think it's good that you're moving forward
  444. # [18:27] <florian> q-
  445. # [18:27] * Zakim sees SimonSapin on the speaker queue
  446. # [18:27] <dael> SimonSapin: How is it diff from ED?
  447. # [18:27] <dael> howcome: No constraints. It's a different type of stantard
  448. # [18:27] <sgalineau> +1 I don't understand how WHATWG makes all those goals more/less achievable.
  449. # [18:27] <dael> howcome: This is basicaly an ED but in a diff place
  450. # [18:27] <dael> glazou: I don't understand what you get doing that. It's a personal comment
  451. # [18:28] <SteveZ> Q+ If it is just an editors draft, why do I have to join another group to follow this work?
  452. # [18:28] * Zakim SteveZ, you typed too many words without commas; I suspect you forgot to start with 'to ...'
  453. # [18:28] <dael> glazou: howcome you have to understand like of WG won't change. WG is bound by process and rules
  454. # [18:28] <dael> howcome: I understand you don't like it but we're going to do what consor. tells us to do
  455. # [18:28] <dael> s howcome / glazou
  456. # [18:28] <dael> glazou: I want GCPM to work.
  457. # [18:28] <fantasai> I propose we publish Page Floats FPWD and sort out the process stuff later, this is silly
  458. # [18:28] <antonp1> s/work/be a REC/
  459. # [18:28] <dael> glazou: I think you miss understood me on the point.
  460. # [18:29] <SimonSapin> ack SteveZ
  461. # [18:29] * Zakim sees SimonSapin on the speaker queue
  462. # [18:29] <leaverou> agreed with fantasai.
  463. # [18:29] <dael> ChrisL: I don't understand howcome comment about putting spec in stasis
  464. # [18:29] <SteveZ> Q+ to ask, If it is just an editors draft, why do I have to join another group to follow this work?
  465. # [18:29] * Zakim sees SimonSapin, SteveZ on the speaker queue
  466. # [18:29] <glazou> fantasai, this is not silly
  467. # [18:29] <dael> ChrisL: Given that it's only corner cases for interop and there's a user willing to help with test, I think it should be full speed ahead
  468. # [18:29] <SimonSapin> ack SimonSapin
  469. # [18:29] * Zakim sees SteveZ on the speaker queue
  470. # [18:29] <stearns> +1 to books
  471. # [18:29] <dael> ChrisL: I like books better than GCPM anyway
  472. # [18:29] * dauwhe +1 on books
  473. # [18:29] <SimonSapin> ack SteveZ
  474. # [18:29] <Zakim> SteveZ, you wanted to ask, If it is just an editors draft, why do I have to join another group to follow this work?
  475. # [18:30] <dael> ChrisL: Moving ahead it's interesting and we want to se it impl more
  476. # [18:30] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  477. # [18:30] * leaverou agreed GCPM is confusing, but not sure books is a better name. It's not just about books, non?
  478. # [18:30] <antonp1> s/I like books/I like the name "Books"/
  479. # [18:30] <dael> ChrisL: To have it used more it's clear to someone that's...when someone's written everything it's clear in their head but not otside
  480. # [18:30] <dael> ChrisL: I don't understand the comment about putting it on hold
  481. # [18:30] <dael> howcome: The comment is b/c new editor is new direction
  482. # [18:30] <dael> ChrisL: But it's for things that don't work. What's wrong with new editor making work
  483. # [18:30] <SimonSapin> oh, sorry SteveZ
  484. # [18:30] <ChrisL> q?
  485. # [18:30] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
  486. # [18:31] <dael> glazou: That's the point of the process
  487. # [18:31] <dael> howcome: You have that right, but it'll lead to frag.
  488. # [18:31] <dael> glazou: You started the frag.
  489. # [18:31] <dael> howcome: I think that disc. is not productive
  490. # [18:31] <dael> glazou: We want you to remain edit inside, but you want to stay outside
  491. # [18:31] <dael> howcome: I'm hoping to bring it back once I've progressed
  492. # [18:31] <florian> q+
  493. # [18:31] * Zakim sees florian on the speaker queue
  494. # [18:31] <plh3> q+
  495. # [18:31] * Zakim sees florian, plh on the speaker queue
  496. # [18:32] <dael> ChrisL: So you're saying we shouldn't progress, if dauwhe what to write tests he shouldn't?
  497. # [18:32] <dael> howcome: Tests aren't the porblem.
  498. # [18:32] <dael> ChrisL: So you write tests and find disagreement in which case the spec it the problem
  499. # [18:32] <dael> ChrisL: Tests create edits
  500. # [18:32] * sgalineau 'this is going to be a short telcon' - 25mn ago
  501. # [18:32] <dael> howcome: Clarifications, not new sections
  502. # [18:32] * Joins: jacobg (~jacobg@public.cloak)
  503. # [18:32] <dael> SteveZ: I have an issue not related, I have to go
  504. # [18:32] * plh3 zakim, unmute me
  505. # [18:32] * Zakim plh was not muted, plh3
  506. # [18:33] <dael> SteveZ: I think we're on a productive path
  507. # [18:33] <sgalineau> s/SteveZ/howcome
  508. # [18:33] <ChrisL> zakim, mute plh
  509. # [18:33] <Zakim> plh should now be muted
  510. # [18:33] * Joins: achicu (~uid13301@public.cloak)
  511. # [18:33] <dael> SteveZ: Largly what I've heard is splitting makes more problems than solves
  512. # [18:33] <dael> SteveZ: I have to join two groups to function and where clarifications are done is confusing
  513. # [18:33] <dael> howcome: Discussions still on WWWStyle
  514. # [18:33] <dael> SteveZ: I don't understand what you're getting
  515. # [18:34] <dael> howcome: We can talk in private
  516. # [18:34] <Zakim> -howcome
  517. # [18:34] <dael> glazou: Let's stop and let howcome go
  518. # [18:34] <Bert> s/WWWStyle/www-style/
  519. # [18:34] <dael> glazou: We'll come back to this later. disc. was impt.
  520. # [18:34] * Joins: mvujovic (~uid13458@public.cloak)
  521. # [18:34] <dael> glazou: We'll have to discuss as a group about WHATWG and GCPM
  522. # [18:34] <dael> Topic: Writing modes
  523. # [18:34] <dael> glazou: got and e-mail from John, not discuss now.
  524. # [18:35] <dael> topic: Shapes
  525. # [18:35] <dael> stearns: Needs feedback from fantasai
  526. # [18:35] <dael> stearns: Should we do what on ML or TabAtkins and I keep working?
  527. # [18:35] <Zakim> +dbaron
  528. # [18:35] <dael> fantasai: We have two ways, so we should use the same syntax and SVG and we want future rectangle to work
  529. # [18:36] <dael> fantasai: I would like for use to figure out a way to have both psoitioning work
  530. # [18:36] <dael> fantasai: I don't think we should have an SVG circle and a CSS circl
  531. # [18:36] <dael> stearns: I disagree so we should go back to ML
  532. # [18:36] <dael> stearns: If you'd respond on the ML with your thoughts, I don't think it's useful in call
  533. # [18:36] <dael> fantasai: OK
  534. # [18:37] <dael> Topic: Extra item
  535. # [18:37] <dael> ???; It's short. I've start to write how regions and overflow work together
  536. # [18:37] <glazou> s/???/stearns
  537. # [18:37] <dael> ...They're short so I expect questions on what im asserting.
  538. # [18:37] <dael> stearns: Especially using regions and targeting elements
  539. # [18:37] <dael> stearns: Please read so and give me feedback
  540. # [18:37] <dael> glazou: Questions?
  541. # [18:38] <dael> glazou: Okay...We still have time. It can be a short call
  542. # [18:38] <stearns> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Oct/0384.html
  543. # [18:38] <stearns> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Oct/0250.html
  544. # [18:38] <dael> fantasai: On the topic of writing modes, glazou you asked what was holdng it up
  545. # [18:38] <dael> fantasai: It's a minor details so we can make it undefined
  546. # [18:38] <stearns> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Oct/0266.html
  547. # [18:38] <stearns> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Oct/0239.html
  548. # [18:38] <dael> fantasai: The spec has it underfined and the arguement is making it not undef.
  549. # [18:39] <dael> glazou: There's a disagreement on what to do and if everyone agrees on leaving it undef. for now we can move to LC
  550. # [18:39] <dael> glazou: If they don't and it takes another month for a solution, we can'
  551. # [18:39] <dael> glazou: So my Q was can we leave undef.
  552. # [18:39] <dael> fantasai: I think we can leave undef.
  553. # [18:39] <dael> glazou: Not everyone is on the call so we can't decide.
  554. # [18:40] <dael> ChrisL: I think we need feedback from UTC to see if the spec breaks their rules
  555. # [18:40] * sgalineau thought talking about it at TPAC with i18n/UTC feedback was a good plan, fwiw
  556. # [18:40] * Quits: abucur (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
  557. # [18:40] <dael> ChrisL: We need them to comment offifically on list
  558. # [18:40] <dael> fantasai: I'd pref. to leave this particular detail undef.
  559. # [18:40] <dael> fantasai: I think this decission will take to TPAC
  560. # [18:40] <dael> fantasai: But holding up this whole spec means we can't address other comments
  561. # [18:40] <dael> fantasai: I think it would be good to do that.
  562. # [18:40] <stearns> if there is spare time at the end of the call, fantasai and I could try to hash out shape syntax, but I fear we'd bore everyone else
  563. # [18:41] <dael> fantasai: I'm happy to leave this open to LC period
  564. # [18:41] <sgalineau> we're talking about holding up for 3-4 more weeks. is that a problem?
  565. # [18:41] <dael> fantasai: It's elsewise tightly speced and this one section is the only issue
  566. # [18:41] <dael> fantasai: That's the only decision that's holding this up
  567. # [18:41] <dael> glazou: Anything else?
  568. # [18:41] <dael> fantasai: If people are okay I'd publish the LC
  569. # [18:41] <dael> glazou: without jdagget or koji I don't want to
  570. # [18:42] <hober> Zakim, who is making noise?
  571. # [18:42] <dael> ???: Maybe put it here and see if koji or jdaggett will accept it
  572. # [18:42] * dbaron Zakim, who is noisy?
  573. # [18:42] <Zakim> hober, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: glazou (4%), fantasai (87%)
  574. # [18:42] <stearns> s/???/stevez/
  575. # [18:42] * plh3 has to drop
  576. # [18:42] <dael> fantasai: I don't htink we should do that for a large contentious issue, but this is minor
  577. # [18:42] <Zakim> -plh
  578. # [18:42] * Zakim dbaron, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: antonp (31%), ChrisL (61%)
  579. # [18:42] <dael> ChrisL: typically we don't go to LC with issues, but we can say this is to be handled in future
  580. # [18:42] <dael> ???; That's what I said in my e-mail last night
  581. # [18:43] <dael> glazou: Is there concensious from WG?
  582. # [18:43] <dael> ???: We'll spend another month, it's more like discussion freezes to TPAC
  583. # [18:43] <glazou> s/???/sgalineau
  584. # [18:43] <dael> ...: TPAC is close enough that I don't know why we care about waiting
  585. # [18:43] <dael> SteveZ: one reason we might care is we'll have more to discuss at TPAC if we LC now
  586. # [18:44] * Quits: howcome (~howcome@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  587. # [18:44] <dael> SteveZ: Or we extend LC period so people don't feel rushed
  588. # [18:44] <Zakim> -dbaron
  589. # [18:44] <dael> fantasai: I think this spec is likely to have 2 LC periods
  590. # [18:44] <dael> fantasai: I'm happy to take extentions if people need more time
  591. # [18:44] <dael> fantasai: I want to collect comments b/c there's nothing I can do to move spec forward and once we LC there will be
  592. # [18:45] <dael> many: That's fair
  593. # [18:45] <fantasai> s/we/we reach/
  594. # [18:45] <dael> glazou: Let's be clear, what do you want to do
  595. # [18:45] <dael> fantasai: I'd like to leave this behaviour undefined for impl to do both, mark as an issues that's being discussed with these options
  596. # [18:46] <dael> fantasai: and ask for comments on that and ask for LC so we can have LC period ending around TPAC so we can get work at TPAC
  597. # [18:46] <dael> glazou: Thoughts?
  598. # [18:46] * sgalineau kind of wishes the Tr issue moved to WHATWG *cough*
  599. # [18:46] <dael> ...: I think so
  600. # [18:46] * fantasai :)
  601. # [18:46] <dael> glazou: Let's decide now
  602. # [18:46] * Bert either way is fine with me
  603. # [18:46] <dael> SteveZ: My understanding of jdagget is he wouldn't agree
  604. # [18:46] <dael> glazou: But I'm asking for your op.
  605. # [18:46] <fantasai> s/SteveZ/florian/
  606. # [18:47] <dael> florian: I'm not sure I have enough info to decide, but I see conflict
  607. # [18:47] <dael> florian: I'm not convinced John is wrong
  608. # [18:47] <dael> florian: going against him feels wrong
  609. # [18:47] <dael> fantasai: But we're not
  610. # [18:47] <dael> florian: But we'd do last call with text he disapproves of
  611. # [18:47] * sgalineau is concerned undefining the whole thing is something Koji will object to
  612. # [18:47] <dael> fantasai: The current text is undefined and he disapproves of that
  613. # [18:47] * fantasai thinks koji would be ok with undefined, because it allows what he wants
  614. # [18:47] <dael> glazou: I'm not hearing concensious
  615. # [18:48] <dael> SteveZ: Can we ask participants for something to let us do LC while they keep talking
  616. # [18:48] * Quits: plh3 (plehegar@public.cloak) ("Leaving")
  617. # [18:48] <leaverou> s/concensious/consensus/
  618. # [18:48] <dael> SteveZ: Since we need Koji and John to agree to a stop-ga, can we ask for them to agree to that?
  619. # [18:48] * Joins: teoli (~teoli@public.cloak)
  620. # [18:48] <dael> glazou: Who is going to do that given complexity of issues
  621. # [18:49] <dael> fantasai: I can try, I have an e-mail from John where he says we should LC with an outsanding contentious issue
  622. # [18:49] <dael> action glazou Ask koji and jdaggett to come to a stop-gap measure
  623. # [18:49] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
  624. # [18:49] <trackbot> Created ACTION-587 - Ask koji and jdaggett to come to a stop-gap measure [on Daniel Glazman - due 2013-10-23].
  625. # [18:49] <Zakim> -[Bloomberg]
  626. # [18:49] * krit Did we already discussed GCPM today?
  627. # [18:49] * fantasai yes
  628. # [18:49] <ChrisL> since we have time q+ to remind about CSS Style Attribute proposed rec
  629. # [18:49] <dael> SteveZ: There's still information to be gathered, do WG have concessious that we need to get LC out since we need comments recognizing no decision on this issue
  630. # [18:50] <sgalineau> also, LC will encourage i18n and others to review this issue soon anyway
  631. # [18:50] * krit fantasai ;)
  632. # [18:50] <dael> fantasai: If we don't pub tomorrow, we can't have a period that ends before or during TPAC
  633. # [18:50] <dael> SteveZ: They don't wait to end to comment
  634. # [18:50] <dael> ChrisL: Yes they do.
  635. # [18:50] <dael> SteveZ: So we're already too late :)
  636. # [18:50] <dael> fantasai: I think we did an issue with fonts where we left it open for LC
  637. # [18:51] <dael> fantasai: This is a similar level of detail
  638. # [18:51] <fantasai> vertical synthesized italics
  639. # [18:51] <sgalineau> also, everyone is really looking forward to renaming things.
  640. # [18:51] <dael> glazou: I don't know what to do. No concensious
  641. # [18:51] <dael> fantasai: John doesn't think it's okay
  642. # [18:51] <dael> fantasai: Ask if He's okay with publishing if there's issues
  643. # [18:52] <dael> fantasai: ???
  644. # [18:52] <dael> glazou: I already accepted action to email and ask them
  645. # [18:52] <dael> florian: I think we need to go into LC super soon
  646. # [18:52] <florian> s/florian/sylvaing/
  647. # [18:52] <dael> glazou: I'm going to e-mail in the next hour, but it's night for John
  648. # [18:52] <dael> sylvaing: If we can do in next week, we need to
  649. # [18:52] <dael> glazou: To conclude, I'll ask John today and hopefully he'll reply quickly
  650. # [18:53] <dael> ChrisL: Reminder we have propposed rec on Style, not seeing comments
  651. # [18:53] <dael> ChrisL: It needs comments to go forward, I don't see issues, but need them to say yes
  652. # [18:53] <dael> Bert: We've discussed this. I can make an errata, but it doesn't contain it until it's a rec
  653. # [18:54] <dael> fantasai: I think it should for to rec and then do erratta
  654. # [18:54] <dael> ...: I think we should rename it
  655. # [18:54] <dael> ChrisL: Seriously, if you want to send erratta it needs to be a rec
  656. # [18:54] <fantasai> fantasai: This isn't an error in the document, it's something we decided to change in 2.1
  657. # [18:54] * Quits: ChrisL (clilley@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  658. # [18:54] * smfr has to go
  659. # [18:54] <dael> Bert: I was told to make an errata
  660. # [18:54] <Zakim> -smfr
  661. # [18:54] <glazou> only 2 ACs voted on that PR
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  663. # [18:54] <Bert> s/bert/SimonSapin/
  664. # [18:54] <dael> fantasai: Once it's publishd as rec we can make a errata
  665. # [18:55] <dael> glazou: To make it clear, there's only two votes and one is speaking
  666. # [18:55] <dael> glazou: Any other agenda items?
  667. # [18:55] <dael> glazou: I think we've exausted everything. Thank you everyone.
  668. # [18:55] <Zakim> -SGalineau
  669. # [18:55] <Zakim> -hober
  670. # [18:55] <dael> [Meeting ended]
  671. # [18:55] <Zakim> -glazou
  672. # [18:55] <Zakim> -c_palmer
  673. # [18:55] <Zakim> -Lea
  674. # [18:55] <Zakim> -[Adobe]
  675. # [18:55] <Zakim> -Stearns
  676. # [18:55] <Zakim> -ChrisL
  677. # [18:55] <Zakim> -dauwhe
  678. # [18:55] <Zakim> -antonp
  679. # [18:55] <Zakim> -??P68
  680. # [18:55] <Zakim> -SteveZ
  681. # [18:56] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  682. # [18:56] * Quits: glazou (~glazou@public.cloak) (glazou)
  683. # [18:56] <Zakim> -SimonSapin
  684. # [18:56] <Zakim> -plinss
  685. # [18:56] <Zakim> -dael
  686. # [18:56] <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
  687. # [18:56] <Zakim> -glenn
  688. # [18:56] <Zakim> -Bert
  689. # [18:56] <Zakim> -leif.a
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  697. # [18:58] <Zakim> -fantasai
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  702. # [19:04] <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, leif, in Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
  703. # [19:04] * Quits: ChrisL (clilley@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  704. # [19:04] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  705. # [19:04] <Zakim> Attendees were dauwhe, plinss, dael, jerenkrantz, Stearns, SGalineau, glazou, hober, Lea, +47.21.65.aaaa, [Adobe], antonp, leif, ChrisL, plh, howcome, glenn, Bert, fantasai, smfr,
  706. # [19:04] <Zakim> ... florian, SteveZ, SimonSapin, [Bloomberg], c_palmer, [Microsoft], dbaron
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The end :)