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- # Session Ident: #css
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- # [17:30] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
- # [17:30] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 34 minutes
- # [17:30] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
- # [17:30] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
- # [17:30] * glazou changes topic to 'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Oct/0582.html'
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- # [17:58] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
- # [17:58] <Zakim> +plinss
- # [17:59] <glazou> plinss, unable to call in : SIP and phone line both down...
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- # [17:59] <glazou> will follow on IRC
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- # [17:59] <SimonSapin> Zakim, [Mozilla] has me
- # [17:59] <Zakim> sorry, SimonSapin, I do not recognize a party named '[Mozilla]'
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- # [18:00] <Zakim> +dael
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- # [18:01] <Zakim> +padenot
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- # [18:01] <dbaron_> Zakim, padenot is Mozilla_Paris
- # [18:01] <Zakim> +Mozilla_Paris; got it
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- # [18:01] <dbaron_> Zakim, Mozilla_Paris is [Mozilla_Paris]
- # [18:01] <Zakim> +[Mozilla_Paris]; got it
- # [18:01] <dbaron_> Zakim, [Mozilla_Paris] has dbaron, SimonSapin, jdaggett
- # [18:01] <Zakim> +dbaron, SimonSapin, jdaggett; got it
- # [18:01] * Ms2ger suspects a big attendance from Mozilla this week
- # [18:01] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
- # [18:01] <MaRakow> Zakim, [Microsoft] is me
- # [18:01] <Zakim> +MaRakow; got it
- # [18:02] <Zakim> +glenn
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- # [18:02] <SimonSapin> hum, does Zakim think we’re one person with two commas in the name?
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- # [18:03] <Zakim> +Stearns
- # [18:03] <dael> ScribeNick: Dael
- # [18:03] <Zakim> +hober
- # [18:03] * glazou is unable to call in :-(
- # [18:03] <glazou> sorry guys
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- # [18:04] * dbaron_ Zakim, who is on the phone?
- # [18:04] * Zakim sees on the phone: plinss, dael, [Mozilla_Paris], MaRakow, glenn, Stearns, hober
- # [18:04] * Zakim [Mozilla_Paris] has dbaron, SimonSapin, jdaggett
- # [18:04] <antonp> Zakim, code
- # [18:04] * dbaron_ is now known as dbaron
- # [18:04] <Zakim> I don't understand 'code', antonp
- # [18:04] <glazou> Zakim, code?
- # [18:04] <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), glazou
- # [18:04] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
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- # [18:04] <jdaggett> big voice rossen
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- # [18:04] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
- # [18:04] <Zakim> +SGalineau
- # [18:04] <Rossen_> zakim, microsoft has me
- # [18:04] <Zakim> +Rossen_; got it
- # [18:04] <Zakim> -SGalineau
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- # [18:05] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
- # [18:05] * dbaron Zakim, who is noisy?
- # [18:05] <koji> zakim, [ipcaller] is me
- # [18:05] <Zakim> +koji; got it
- # [18:05] <Zakim> +SGalineau
- # [18:05] * Zakim dbaron, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
- # [18:05] * Bert will be a bit late
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- # [18:05] <jdaggett> zakim, who is noisy
- # [18:05] <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is noisy', jdaggett
- # [18:05] * dbaron Zakim, mute [IPcaller]
- # [18:05] * Zakim sorry, dbaron, I do not know which phone connection belongs to [IPcaller]
- # [18:05] <Zakim> +fantasai
- # [18:05] <Zakim> +[Adobe]
- # [18:05] <jdaggett> zakim darling, who the heck is making all the friggin noise?
- # [18:05] <plinss> zakim, who is making noise?
- # [18:05] <Zakim> plinss, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: dael (4%), [Microsoft] (8%), fantasai (4%)
- # [18:05] <Zakim> +smfr
- # [18:06] <michou1> Zakim, Adobe has me
- # [18:06] <Zakim> +michou1; got it
- # [18:06] <Zakim> +??P58
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- # [18:06] <leif> Zakim, who is on the phone?
- # [18:06] <Zakim> On the phone I see plinss, dael, [Mozilla_Paris], MaRakow, glenn, Stearns, hober, [Microsoft], [Microsoft.a], koji, SGalineau, fantasai, [Adobe], smfr, ??P58
- # [18:06] <Zakim> [Mozilla_Paris] has dbaron, SimonSapin, jdaggett
- # [18:06] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has Rossen_
- # [18:06] <Zakim> [Adobe] has michou1
- # [18:06] <Zakim> + +93550aaaa
- # [18:06] <israelh> Microsoft has me
- # [18:06] <leif> Zakim, I am ??P58
- # [18:06] <Zakim> +leif; got it
- # [18:07] <antonp> Zakim, aaaa is me
- # [18:07] <Zakim> +antonp; got it
- # [18:07] <dael> plinss: Let's get started
- # [18:07] * jdaggett dbaron is trying to figure out how to deal with two meter tall french windows...
- # [18:07] <Zakim> +dauwhe
- # [18:07] <dael> plinss: Extra items?
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- # [18:07] <dael> ???: I have one
- # [18:07] <jdaggett> s/???/rossen/
- # [18:07] <sgalineau> s/???/Rossen
- # [18:07] <dael> ...: I just wanted to make proposal for new mod of snappoint
- # [18:08] <SimonSapin> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Oct/0595.html
- # [18:08] <dbaron> s/mod/module/
- # [18:08] <dael> Rossen_: I sent out an e-mail and I'm unfotunatly far away
- # [18:08] <dael> Rossen_: I was going to ask if we can discuss and I need to leave call quickly
- # [18:08] * jdaggett man ukranian phones are LOUD
- # [18:08] <dael> plinss: Anything else?
- # [18:08] <Rossen_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Oct/0595.html
- # [18:08] <dael> Rossen_: So this is a spec that we discussed, a couple of times in past
- # [18:08] <dael> Rossen_: Some of those discussions might have been hallway or offtopic
- # [18:08] <dael>
- # [18:09] <dael> Rossen_: They were basically having to do with us proposing behaviour of snappoint
- # [18:09] <dael> Rossen_: We've been shipping as part of platform
- # [18:09] <dbaron> s/platform/our platform since IE10/
- # [18:09] <dael> Rossen_: The two editors are matt rakow and jacob ?
- # [18:09] <dael> Rossen_: They were working on other stuff and finally were able to draft a spec
- # [18:09] <sgalineau> Jacob Rossi
- # [18:09] <dbaron> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-snappoints/
- # [18:10] <dael> Rossen_: Which we uploaded as an unofficial draft to above link
- # [18:10] <dael> Rossen_: As any new proposal we wanted to get WG's buy in
- # [18:10] <dael> Rossen_: I know that there was some discussion on www-style from Tab
- # [18:10] <dael> Rossen_: This is something that we're just starting and want to start
- # [18:10] <dael> Rossen_: It is very rough and def. things missing and to improve
- # [18:10] * plh zakim, call plh-mobile
- # [18:10] * Zakim ok, plh; the call is being made
- # [18:10] <Zakim> +Plh
- # [18:10] <dael> Rossen_: In order to get rolling we want to see how WG feels
- # [18:11] <dael> dbaron: I think it's great to have in draft, would like to see more of...I'd like to see additional stuff
- # [18:11] <Zakim> +SteveZ
- # [18:11] <dael> dbaron: In part. along lines of what RoK proposed
- # [18:11] <sgalineau> +1 to snap to elements
- # [18:11] <dael> dbaron: Having to specifiy manually in sep. property is hard
- # [18:11] * glazou is ok for an ED pending other members are ok, IP-wise ; question : in scope for next charter ?
- # [18:11] <sgalineau> or element edges
- # [18:11] <antonp> s/RoK/roc/
- # [18:11] <dael> dbaron: Current req. authors to specify edges when they're often created by elemnet to point out edges
- # [18:11] <sgalineau> +1 to new draft + dbaron/roc's feedback
- # [18:12] <dael> dbaron: It's greak to see this draft, but I don't think we're set on details of that proposal.
- # [18:12] <fantasai> +1 to dbaron's proposal
- # [18:12] <dael> dbaron: I'd like that addressed in draft
- # [18:12] <dael> Rossen_: Would you like us to start with that as an issue?
- # [18:12] <dael> fantasai: I'd like Roc's proposal before we first propose
- # [18:12] <glazou> plinss, in scope for next charter?
- # [18:12] * Joins: SteveZ (~SteveZ@public.cloak)
- # [18:12] <dbaron> s/first proposed/first public working draft/
- # [18:12] <dael> Rossen_: WE just have this as a WD, we're sorry about originally putting in as ED
- # [18:13] <michou1> s/WD/unofficial draft
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- # [18:13] <glazou> s/WD/UD
- # [18:13] <dael> Rossen_: Once we're okayed to start as ED, we can work on all these issues before we do first public
- # [18:13] <dael> fantasai: I don't think this needs to be an issue, just put in the information
- # [18:13] <dael> Rossen_: I guess my q was unclear
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- # [18:13] <dael> Rossen_: Is this something we should try and put in unofficial, or should we put in before it's ready for first public
- # [18:13] <sgalineau> thinks this can just be an issue in the ED
- # [18:14] <Zakim> +[Bloomberg]
- # [18:14] <dael> fantasai: I don't think it matters, that's just the next step
- # [18:14] <dael> dbaron: I don't think it matters either
- # [18:14] <jerenkrantz> Zakim, Bloomberg has me
- # [18:14] <Zakim> +jerenkrantz; got it
- # [18:14] <dael> Rossen_: I think we can work on that. no problem
- # [18:14] <dael> plinss: Any obj to accepting it as ED?
- # [18:14] <dael> RESOLVED: Accept work on this mod as an ED
- # [18:14] <dael> Rossen_: Thank you everyone, now I hve to jump off
- # [18:14] <glazou> please, ask about charter scope
- # [18:14] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
- # [18:15] <dael> Topis: TPAC
- # [18:15] <dbaron> can't hear peter over heavy breathing
- # [18:15] <dael> plinss: We need more items on wiki
- # [18:15] <dael> plinss: Snappoints should be in next charter
- # [18:15] <glazou> thanks
- # [18:15] <dael> plinss: So far we haven't heard about TPAC on sunday
- # [18:15] <dael> plinss: If we think folks are attending and avail on sunday, we'll still try
- # [18:16] <dael> ??: Can e figure out from adobe someone to set up a meeting room and not use W3C?
- # [18:16] <dael> ??: Seems like someone has thrown this over the wall
- # [18:16] <SimonSapin> s/??/jdaggett/
- # [18:16] <dael> plinss: We've been trying, but TPAC needs to set up space
- # [18:16] <dael> plinss: I can ping adobe
- # [18:16] <dael> jdaggett: It seems like we need to corner someone
- # [18:16] <plh> q+
- # [18:16] * Zakim sees plh on the speaker queue
- # [18:16] * Quits: Rossen_ (~Rossen@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
- # [18:17] <dael> jdaggett: We're trying to get a sunday space, adobe has been able to get as space on Sat. Let's figure outt heir magic
- # [18:17] <dael> ???: I don't think it was just adobe, I think tantek helped
- # [18:17] <dbaron> s/tantek/tencent/
- # [18:17] <plinss> s/???/sylvain/
- # [18:17] <sgalineau> s/???/sylvaing
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- # [18:17] <dael> plh: We also had them to deal with hotel. It might be too later at this point, worth a try
- # [18:17] <dael> plh: I know ?? is super busy and might not be ableto
- # [18:18] <dael> jdaggett: It was 2 or 3 months ago, never answered
- # [18:18] <dael> plinss: They just said they'd see what they can do
- # [18:18] <dael> plh: I'll try and find out more
- # [18:18] <dael> jdaggett: This si frustrating b/c people are spending money and time and AC meeting overlaps with us. I'm just a bit upset
- # [18:18] <dael> plh: I understand. I appologize. I'll get as much info as poss. in next 24h
- # [18:19] <dael> plh: If not, we might need another way
- # [18:19] <dael> jdaggett: What I find wierd is we always meet sunday and always have to wrangle that room
- # [18:19] <Zakim> +Bert
- # [18:19] <dael> plh: To be honest, I was talking with Jeff and he said everything thought three days was too long
- # [18:19] <dael> plh: I'll look intot he matter
- # [18:19] <dael> fantasai: Wait, who said 3 days was too long?
- # [18:20] <dael> plh: That was old feedback
- # [18:20] <dael> jdaggett: After last year glazou said he wouldn't meet sunday, but he's not coming
- # [18:20] <glazou> right
- # [18:20] <dael> plinss: I think that was having so many things back to back, but he was the only one
- # [18:20] <jdaggett> s/jdaggett/dbaron/
- # [18:20] <dael> plinss: That wasn't a group decision
- # [18:20] <plh> http://www.w3.org/2013/11/TPAC/#GroupSchedule
- # [18:20] <glazou> correct
- # [18:20] <dael> plh: I see on schedule it's there, that we wantt o meet on Sunday
- # [18:20] <dael> plh: So I'm going to check
- # [18:20] <dael> plinss: Ok
- # [18:20] <dael> plinss: Thank you
- # [18:21] <dael> plinss: Other reminder, DLS change happens
- # [18:21] <dael> plinss: Be careful about when to call in
- # [18:21] <dael> dbaron: In particular, next week call is an hour earlier for euopeans
- # [18:21] <dael> Topic: Style attr
- # [18:21] <dael> plinss: People, remind your reps to vote positive on that
- # [18:21] <dael> Topic: Named Flows
- # [18:22] <dael> stearns: I'd like to encourage people to respond on list so discuss as much before tpac
- # [18:22] <dael> ...: I saw dbaron responded, thanks
- # [18:22] <dael> ...: Anyone want to talk now?
- # [18:22] <dael> plinss: Anyone?
- # [18:22] <Zakim> +??P7
- # [18:22] <glazou> Zakim, ??P& is me
- # [18:22] <Zakim> sorry, glazou, I do not recognize a party named '??P&'
- # [18:22] <dael> Topic: Outline-Style: auto
- # [18:23] <dbaron> Zakim, ??P7 is glazou
- # [18:23] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
- # [18:23] <glazou> Zakim, ??P7 is me
- # [18:23] <Zakim> I already had ??P7 as glazou, glazou
- # [18:23] <glazou> lol
- # [18:23] <dael> plinss: Anyone that can talk about this?
- # [18:23] <dael> plinss: We got feedback from web platform folks?
- # [18:23] <dael> dbaron: I resp. on list, they understood my explination better than spec
- # [18:23] <dael> dbaron: I don't see what's different about them, though
- # [18:23] <dael> plinss: Anything esle we can do here?
- # [18:23] <dael> plinss: Or wait for feedback from them?
- # [18:24] <dael> dbaron: I don't...It was just one e-mail.
- # [18:24] <dael> dbaron: I think it can be normal issue process for spe
- # [18:24] <dael> Topic: fragmentation and full screen
- # [18:24] <dael> ??: I michou on call?
- # [18:24] <plinss> s/??/stearns/
- # [18:24] <glazou> s/??/stearns
- # [18:24] <dael> michou: The main q is, right now the full screen spec that's being offered
- # [18:25] <dael> michou: Desc. how things should be when there is full screen
- # [18:25] <dael> michou: However, there is no mention about how things that are frag. should behave in full screen
- # [18:25] <dael> michou: My q is, first, if this should be specified in the spec, which should it be
- # [18:25] <dael> michou: More general q is when there are these interactions between spec not even in this work
- # [18:25] * sgalineau is it just fragmented content of even just the interaction of overflowing content with full screen?
- # [18:25] <dael> michou: which should take care of including the behaviour
- # [18:25] <dbaron> I think it might be useful to include at least some of the editors of fullscreen in a discussion about fullscreen.
- # [18:26] <dael> fantasai: The spec takes care of 2. aspects of things
- # [18:26] <dael> fantasai: New models should define frag. on their own
- # [18:26] <dael> fantasai: This should desc different classes of layout and sizing constraints across pages
- # [18:26] <sgalineau> if I make an overflow:scroll element full screen and it doesn't fit, what happens?
- # [18:26] <dael> fantasai: Fullscreen might be diff
- # [18:26] <dael> fantasai: If you're printing full screen, you should jsut part, not full doc.
- # [18:26] <dael> fantasai: This full screen doc is up front, so your int. in there, not rest
- # [18:27] <dael> fantasai: Makes sense you only print that, that's one poss.
- # [18:27] <dael> michou: That was my con. too
- # [18:27] <dael> michou: When you're in full screen, you disregard the frag.
- # [18:27] <dael> michou: q remains, where should that be?
- # [18:27] <dael> fantasai: Full screen spec
- # [18:27] <dael> michou: Okay
- # [18:27] <dael> michou: stearns: anything else?
- # [18:27] * Quits: shepazu (schepers@public.cloak) ("is sleepy")
- # [18:27] <dael> michou: I think we should provide FB in mailing list
- # [18:28] <dael> s/michou/stearns
- # [18:28] <dael> michou: I'll continue this on full screen ML
- # [18:28] <dael> plinss: Anything else?
- # [18:28] <dael> michou: Not from me
- # [18:28] <dael> Topic: setProperty and !important
- # [18:28] <dael> plinss: There was discussion on ML about this. Anyone to talk about it?
- # [18:29] * Joins: florian (~Adium@public.cloak)
- # [18:29] <dael> dbaron: I can give in if impl are willing to change
- # [18:29] <dbaron> s/impl/other implementations/
- # [18:29] <dael> plinss: Is tehre anyone familiar with the obj?
- # [18:29] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
- # [18:29] <dael> dbaron: The issue we discussed at Paris F2F
- # [18:29] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
- # [18:29] <dael> dbaron: The issue was how setproperty deals with exisiting declaration for that property for various settings and the setproperty having !important
- # [18:29] <florian> Zakim, [IPcaller] has me
- # [18:29] <Zakim> +florian; got it
- # [18:30] <dael> plinss: So the q is, is IE or Webkit willing to change behaiour
- # [18:30] <dael> plinss: Anyone?
- # [18:30] <dael> israelh: I'm curious, there was also in past about if !important needs change for animations
- # [18:30] <dael> israelh: So is there a larger set that deals with !important that needs to be addressed
- # [18:31] <dael> dbaron: I don't think tthey're related
- # [18:31] <dael> israelh: I think it's self contained
- # [18:31] <dael> ???: I think we should wait for Simon Peters
- # [18:31] <dbaron> s/???/glenn/
- # [18:31] <dael> plinss: So defer?
- # [18:31] <dael> plinss: Maybe at TPAC?
- # [18:31] <leif> Zakim, unmute me
- # [18:31] <Zakim> leif should no longer be muted
- # [18:32] <dael> ...: I think simon peters is coming to TPAC
- # [18:32] <dael> ...: Maybe not CSS
- # [18:32] <dael> fantasai: If he's there, I think we can pull him in
- # [18:32] <leif> s/.../leif
- # [18:32] <SimonSapin> s/Simon Peters/Simon Pieters (zcorpan)/
- # [18:32] <dael> plinss: So defer?
- # [18:32] <dael> Topic: devicepixelratio behavior
- # [18:32] <dael> plinss: An old thread getting life
- # [18:33] <dael> plinss: It's about how it should behave when zoom is applied
- # [18:33] <dael> plinss: Anyone want to talk about it?
- # [18:33] <dael> smfr: We feel strongly in webkit it should only rep the properties of hardware display
- # [18:33] <dael> smfr: It shouldn't change with zooming
- # [18:33] <dael> smfr: Other browsers want one to change, but it should have another name
- # [18:33] <dael> fantasai: That makes sense to me
- # [18:34] <dael> dbaron: What is the use case...people are going to write media quiries with assumptions that won't hold
- # [18:34] <dael> smfr: One of our goals is to retain...to keep page zooming under user control
- # [18:34] <dael> smfr: Not give authors too much control
- # [18:34] <dael> smfr: We don't want pages to rearrange when user zooms
- # [18:35] <dael> ???: We also have when an author is trying to change things, when it is small, the user zoom makes it smaller
- # [18:35] <dael> dbaron: There's a half dozon wasy for authors to do this
- # [18:35] <dael> dbaron: This doesn't seem like the thing people will use to rearrnage content
- # [18:35] <dael> dbaron: Will use for low-level qualtity issues
- # [18:35] <plinss> s/???/hober/
- # [18:35] <glazou> s/dozon wasy/dozen ways
- # [18:35] <dael> ???; That sounds like an arguement for making it constant
- # [18:36] <plinss> s/???/hober/
- # [18:36] <dael> dbaron: We're only talking about desktop, not moble
- # [18:36] <dael> smfr: I think our position holds in that case. when we introduced retna, the reason was people could provide high res assets on those devices
- # [18:36] <Bert> I think there are at least three kinds of zooming: the magnifier metaphor (doesn't cause any re-layout, or it defeats the purpose); set medium font size (causes new layout); simulate bigger/smaller pixels (probably does new layout?)
- # [18:36] <dael> dbaron: Problem is it's a general toola nd people will use for other things
- # [18:37] <dael> dbaron: I'm concerned b/c everyone else seemed to like other direction and they're not on phone
- # [18:37] <dael> ???: In IE what we're doing is searching ration is setting. When users are doing higher res, we want to allow that, but we want to mask anything in zoom with websites
- # [18:37] <sgalineau> s/???/MaRakow
- # [18:37] <dael> dbaron: Pinchzoom doesn't effect this
- # [18:37] <Zakim> -glazou
- # [18:37] <dael> dbaron: It's a little funny to define
- # [18:38] <dael> ???: When it comes to desktop zoom, the viewport changes etc. so this arguement doesn't aplly
- # [18:38] <sgalineau> s/???/florian
- # [18:38] <dael> smfr: In safari there's 3 zoom, inc text size, make pixals biiger
- # [18:38] <dael> smfr: And aplly a transform in retna view, when you use 2 fingrs on track pad
- # [18:38] <dael> florian: I was refering to classic
- # [18:39] <dael> ??: For this I wouldn't mind pixal changing
- # [18:39] <dael> dbaron: I think we're talking about changing it for zoom where width is changing
- # [18:39] <Zakim> +??P7
- # [18:39] <SimonSapin> s/??/florian/
- # [18:39] <glazou> Zakim, ??P7 is me
- # [18:39] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
- # [18:39] <dael> dbaron: If you ctl+ and you zoom in a 1000 pxl wide
- # [18:39] <Zakim> -glazou
- # [18:39] <dael> dbaron: Then your width is 667 pixals
- # [18:39] <Zakim> +??P7
- # [18:40] <glazou> Zakim, ??P7 is me
- # [18:40] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
- # [18:40] <dael> dbaron: In those cases, where the width hanges when you zoom is when we change the device ratio
- # [18:40] * Joins: abucur (~Adium@public.cloak)
- # [18:40] <dael> smfr: If zooming change the width it changes, if it doesn't change width it doesn't change ratio
- # [18:40] <dbaron> s/smfr/florian/
- # [18:40] <SimonSapin> +1 florian
- # [18:40] <dael> ???: Given the confusion and that authors can use other options to change
- # [18:41] * fantasai would like to request WD for Writing Modes, given we can't publish LC until after TPAC at the earliest
- # [18:41] <sgalineau> s/???/florian
- # [18:41] <SimonSapin> MQ 'width' times 'resolution' should be constant on a given device, IMO
- # [18:41] <dael> florian: With changing or not changing in diff. types of zoom, why is it confusing. Some zooms alter view port, some don't
- # [18:41] <dael> florian: If it changes the view port, it should change
- # [18:41] <dael> ???: It should always reflect relationship between CSS pic rules
- # [18:42] <dael> ...: That means every type of zoom should change
- # [18:42] <plinss> s/???/smfr/
- # [18:42] <dael> florian: I can see an agrument for that
- # [18:42] <dael> florian: pinch zoom is asking please don't change the page, I just want to get closer
- # [18:42] <dael> florian: There's no expectation of change
- # [18:42] <antonp> s/With .... why is it confusing./'width' .... is not confusing. So why is device-pixel-ratio doing a similar thing confusing?/
- # [18:42] <dael> ???: I do what to see it at a higher resolution
- # [18:42] * sgalineau doesn't like the idea of a *device* pixel ratio changing. That makes little sense. Do the device* MQ properties change?
- # [18:42] <plh> q+ to confirm Sunday CSS meeting
- # [18:42] * Zakim sees plh on the speaker queue
- # [18:42] <dael> plinss: I think there's a media quiry that will accept that
- # [18:42] <astearns> s/???/plinss/
- # [18:43] * sgalineau wonders if we're talking about a csspixelratio property
- # [18:43] <dael> plinss: If I've zoomed to where one pixal is taking my scree, I want it to change
- # [18:43] <dael> florian: That slows it down significantly.
- # [18:43] <dael> plinss: I understand. I'm saying it can be addressed
- # [18:43] <dael> plinss: I can accept divicepixalratio doesn't change
- # [18:43] <SimonSapin> sgalineau, my understanding is that’s it’s a ratio between the two. When one of them changes the ratio changes
- # [18:43] <dael> plinss: I want something that does
- # [18:43] <dael> plh: That's what i suggested on IRC
- # [18:44] <astearns> s/plh/sgalineau/
- # [18:44] <dael> plh: I wonder if CSS pixal ratio property that's distinct would fix it
- # [18:44] <Bert> q+ to say yes, higher resolution on magnification, but only because not all available resolution in the fonts & images was used yet before.
- # [18:44] * Zakim sees plh, Bert on the speaker queue
- # [18:44] <plh> q- later
- # [18:44] * Zakim sees Bert, plh on the speaker queue
- # [18:44] <dael> ??: I think that's fine. It should be named to avoid confusion
- # [18:44] <hober> s/??/hober/
- # [18:44] <dael> plh: They will most likely take the one that works in the case they thought of, but break in another case
- # [18:44] <plinss> s/plh/florian/
- # [18:44] <florian> s/plh/florian/
- # [18:45] <dael> ???: I think we want a different propety that seperates device pixals and CSS pixals
- # [18:45] <dael> ...: This is what I want for pinch and this is what I want for persistant
- # [18:45] <dael> florian: To address the earlier point, I think users expect thigns
- # [18:46] <dael> ???: I think where we want authors to distinguish is where users distinguish
- # [18:46] <dael> florian: That's not what pinchzoom is for
- # [18:46] <dael> ???; That's not what pinch zoom is for
- # [18:46] <plinss> zakim, who is making noise?
- # [18:46] <dael> florian: If you have multi-res image and browser switches, that's fine, but doens't allow author to change query
- # [18:46] <Zakim> plinss, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: [IPcaller] (82%), MaRakow (4%), fantasai (27%)
- # [18:46] <dael> florian: That provides high end definitlion
- # [18:47] <dael> florian: Having a media query that triggers from pinch zoom allows authors to re layout aribitary
- # [18:47] <dael> florian: That's no good
- # [18:47] <dael> florian: Re rendering is fine from rule
- # [18:47] <dael> florian: arbitary is not fine
- # [18:47] <dael> ???: I can't think of many scenarios for temporary zoom
- # [18:48] <dael> ...: One thing I can think of is temprary assets
- # [18:48] <dael> florian: And if we go through media query, arbetary is what you get
- # [18:48] <glenn> who is ???
- # [18:48] <dael> ...: I agree. You wouldn't want it to stack with zoom, it would be a sep. multiplier
- # [18:48] <dael> florian: Media query...is fine to change in type of zooming that changes view point
- # [18:49] <MaRakow> s/???/MaRakow
- # [18:49] <hober> q?
- # [18:49] * Zakim sees Bert, plh on the speaker queue
- # [18:49] <SimonSapin> s/view point/viewport/
- # [18:49] <dael> plinss: Bert
- # [18:49] <hober> q+
- # [18:49] * Zakim sees Bert, plh, hober on the speaker queue
- # [18:49] <plinss> ack bert
- # [18:49] <Zakim> Bert, you wanted to say yes, higher resolution on magnification, but only because not all available resolution in the fonts & images was used yet before.
- # [18:49] <plh> q- later
- # [18:49] * Zakim sees plh, hober on the speaker queue
- # [18:49] * Zakim sees hober, plh on the speaker queue
- # [18:49] <dael> Bert: I guess florian said it, I agree the magnification is in the browser
- # [18:49] <dael> Bert: It doesn't expect the substituation
- # [18:49] <dael> Bert: We don't have to specify in media quiries
- # [18:49] <dael> Bert: This type of zoom is outside CSS
- # [18:50] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
- # [18:50] <plinss> ack hober
- # [18:50] * Zakim sees plh on the speaker queue
- # [18:50] <dael> hober: With all this int. in def. devicepixalratio
- # [18:50] <dael> hober: We should add to media quiries 4
- # [18:50] <dael> hober: an actual def. would be nice
- # [18:50] <dael> hober: In the past people have opposed, but this is a half fix that needs to be addressed
- # [18:50] <dbaron> I agree we should pave the cowpath at this point.
- # [18:51] <dael> florian: how do you propose...these two things have different syntax and you can pick?
- # [18:51] <dael> hober: Personally, i'd drop resolution arguement, but I'd lose
- # [18:51] <dael> hober: We need to describe that they do different thigns
- # [18:51] <SimonSapin> s/argument/media query/
- # [18:51] * dbaron thinks "half fix" was not what hober said, but doesn't remember what he did
- # [18:51] <dael> florian: I don't want to be diplomatic. Resolution was first, maybe we should syntasize that one
- # [18:52] <dael> florian: that's a sep. question
- # [18:52] * fantasai thinks florian needs to correct the above
- # [18:52] <dael> florian: The behavior and the name should be disc. independantly
- # [18:52] <dael> fantasai: how many impl do we have of devicepixalratio
- # [18:52] <dael> florian: It's in presto, webkit perhaps
- # [18:53] <hober> s/int./interest/
- # [18:53] <dbaron> +Gecko
- # [18:53] * Zakim wonders where Gecko is
- # [18:53] <dael> florian: At the same time, all impl we have are prefixed
- # [18:53] <hober> s/We should add to/We should add device-pixel-ratio to/
- # [18:53] <dael> dbaron: I believe it's unprefixed in gecko
- # [18:53] <dael> plinss: Hearing agreement we should standardize
- # [18:53] <hober> s/half fix/cow path/
- # [18:53] * Quits: jet (~junglecode@public.cloak) (jet)
- # [18:53] <dael> smfr: By this you mean?
- # [18:53] <dael> plinss: The name for one
- # [18:53] <smfr> s/smfr/florian
- # [18:54] <dael> florian: If we have one thing with a prefix, we should standardize. If not, I'm not sure we should if we're going to migrate
- # [18:54] <dael> fantasai: What about a webkit impl?
- # [18:54] <fantasai> fantasai: Does WebKit implement 'resolution'?
- # [18:54] <dael> florian: I think it was also int. to not that in media 3, we tested for existant, but not behavior
- # [18:54] <dael> florian: It's possible many have it, but don't treat it the same
- # [18:55] <fantasai> smfr^: I think Apple turns it off
- # [18:55] <dael> ???: So maybe we should go back
- # [18:55] <fantasai> s/???/florian/
- # [18:55] <Zakim> -glazou
- # [18:55] <fantasai> s/back/go pave the cowpath/
- # [18:55] <dael> plinss: Sounds like agreement to add it to media 4, not sure on how
- # [18:55] <dael> florian: I'm not sure what to address because not everyone has same syntax
- # [18:55] <dael> smfr: I think several impt accept a ratio as the value for media query
- # [18:56] <smfr> s/smfr/florian
- # [18:56] <dael> fantasai: I'm thinking both ways make sense
- # [18:56] <dael> florian: It's also in syntax
- # [18:56] <dael> florian: We agree what syntax should be
- # [18:56] <dael> dbaron: This is widely used enough, it will end up being webkit if we fiddle too much
- # [18:56] <dael> plinss: I think it's fine to add extra syntax and feature, but not break existing
- # [18:57] <dbaron> s/webkit/-webkit-device-pixel-ratio in all browsers/
- # [18:57] <Zakim> +??P4
- # [18:57] <glazou> Zakim, ??P4 is me
- # [18:57] <dael> florian: I don't think anything has changed since we talked and decided other way
- # [18:57] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
- # [18:57] <dael> florian: What do we do with resolutions?
- # [18:57] <Zakim> -glazou
- # [18:57] <glazou> grrrr
- # [18:57] <dael> florian: Do we link properties together?
- # [18:57] <Zakim> +??P4
- # [18:57] <dael> plinss: Fine if the behavior are identical
- # [18:57] <dael> florian: I'd like to see if people are using resolution in the wild
- # [18:58] <dael> florian: If no one uses it, let's kill it
- # [18:58] <dael> dbaron: It has value from accepting multiple units
- # [18:58] <dael> florian: I'll add both it alias between to
- # [18:58] <dael> florian: I'll fine a blog post that describes syntax
- # [18:58] <dael> plinss: Still q about behavior under zzoom.
- # [18:58] <dael> plinss: Fairly stron optionins it should change
- # [18:58] <dael> plinss: Webkit still oppose?
- # [18:58] <dael> smfr: Yes
- # [18:59] <dael> plinss: Something you're willing to change?
- # [18:59] <smfr> s/smfr/hober
- # [18:59] <dael> hober: I think it would conf. authors if we change
- # [18:59] <dael> florian: If authors are swapping low and high res, it won't be awfully confusion
- # [18:59] <dael> florian: If they break it, it's b/c they shouldn't be doing it
- # [19:00] <dael> plinss: We're running out of time. Ho to move forward?
- # [19:00] <astearns> I think we need to hear from PLH before the call ends
- # [19:00] <dael> plinss: If we don't standardize behviour, we can't standarize
- # [19:00] <dael> plinss: plh, you still on que?
- # [19:00] <dael> plh: yes, but others made points
- # [19:00] * fantasai plinss, can we get a resolution to publish writing modes WD, since LC is not possible before TPAC?
- # [19:00] <astearns> s/others made points/on another point
- # [19:01] <dael> florian: I think using media queries here is wrong
- # [19:01] <plh> s/others made point/on a different point/
- # [19:01] <dael> florian: I'm not sure how to convice anyone that's unconvinced
- # [19:01] <dael> hober: You're forgetting border width
- # [19:01] <dael> hober: Media quiry is a natural way to do half width
- # [19:01] <dael> plinss: Disucss on ML and TPAC?
- # [19:01] <fantasai> s/half width/half width border-width/
- # [19:01] <glazou> sound so loud!!!
- # [19:01] <dael> plh: I can conf. that you can have a room on Sunday
- # [19:01] * jdaggett yay!
- # [19:01] * dauwhe excellent!
- # [19:01] <dael> plh: Same number on Monday/Tuesday?
- # [19:02] <dael> plh: Confirmation just arrived Monday or Tuesday, so sorry
- # [19:02] <SteveZ> I will not be there on Sunday due to a conflict
- # [19:02] <dael> Topic: Writing Modes
- # [19:02] <plh> s/Monday or Tuesday/yesterday/
- # [19:02] <dael> fantasai: I don't think we can get to LC, so can I pub a WD?
- # [19:02] * dbaron would guess that one or two people have travel plans that preclude Sunday by this point
- # [19:02] <dael> ???; As long as that's marked as an issue
- # [19:02] <jdaggett> s/???/jdaggett/
- # [19:02] <sgalineau> s/???/jdaggett
- # [19:02] <dael> RESOLVED: Pub another WD of Writing Modes
- # [19:02] <Zakim> -[Bloomberg]
- # [19:02] <Zakim> -hober
- # [19:02] <Zakim> -glenn
- # [19:02] <dael> plinss: Thanks everyone
- # [19:02] <Zakim> -fantasai
- # [19:02] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
- # [19:02] <Zakim> -SGalineau
- # [19:03] <Zakim> -smfr
- # [19:03] <jdaggett> as long as the Tr fallback issue is marked as an issue
- # [19:03] <Zakim> -Stearns
- # [19:03] <Zakim> -??P4
- # [19:03] <dael> [Meeting Ened]
- # [19:03] <Zakim> -dauwhe
- # [19:03] <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
- # [19:03] <Zakim> -Bert
- # [19:03] <Zakim> -leif
- # [19:03] <Zakim> -plinss
- # [19:03] <Zakim> -MaRakow
- # [19:03] <dael> s/ened/ended
- # [19:03] <Zakim> -SteveZ
- # [19:03] <Zakim> -[Adobe]
- # [19:03] * Parts: smfr (~smfr@public.cloak) (smfr)
- # [19:03] <Zakim> -dael
- # [19:03] <Zakim> -Plh
- # [19:03] * Quits: glazou (~glazou@public.cloak) (glazou)
- # [19:03] <Zakim> -koji
- # [19:03] * Parts: dael (~dael@public.cloak) (dael)
- # [19:04] * Quits: jdaggett (~jdaggett@public.cloak) (jdaggett)
- # [19:04] * Quits: SteveZ (~SteveZ@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
- # [19:04] * Parts: oyvind (~oyvinds@public.cloak) (oyvind)
- # [19:05] <Zakim> -antonp
- # [19:06] * Quits: antonp (~Thunderbird@public.cloak) (antonp)
- # [19:08] * Quits: israelh (~israelh@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
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- # [19:10] * Quits: michou1 (~mibalan@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
- # [19:10] * Parts: leif (~lastorset@public.cloak) (leif)
- # [19:10] <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, [Mozilla_Paris], in Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
- # [19:10] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
- # [19:10] <Zakim> Attendees were plinss, dael, dbaron, SimonSapin, jdaggett, MaRakow, glenn, Stearns, hober, SGalineau, Rossen_, koji, fantasai, smfr, michou1, +93550aaaa, leif, antonp, dauwhe, Plh,
- # [19:10] <Zakim> ... SteveZ, jerenkrantz, Bert, glazou, florian
- # [19:11] <dbaron> boy, I hung up the call along with everyone else
- # [19:11] <dbaron> I'm worried about what that says about the phone system
- # [19:12] * heycam is now known as heycam|away
- # [19:15] * Quits: florian (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
- # [19:23] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
- # [19:32] * Quits: koji (~koji@public.cloak) ("Leaving...")
- # [19:41] * Quits: jerenkrantz (~jerenkrantz@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
- # [19:48] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek)
- # [19:49] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Your preprocessor makes invalid HTML whenever there's a term inside an existing <a> :(
- # [19:50] * fantasai hates the fact that trying to publish with Bikeshed invariably means fixing errors in the output for one reason or another
- # [19:53] <fantasai> TabAtkins: You're also doing a double-replacement of URLs in the previous links section, so that you get <a href="<a href="..."
- # [19:53] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Can you like, *run a validator* on some bikeshed outputafter you check in changes?
- # [20:00] <fantasai> Some indentation on the output would be nice, too...
- # [20:00] * fantasai could find errors easier that way :)
- # [20:06] * Quits: MaRakow (~MaRakow@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
- # [21:07] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
- # [21:07] * Parts: Zakim (zakim@public.cloak) (Zakim)
- # [21:23] * Quits: sgalineau (~sgalineau@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
- # [21:30] * Joins: jdaggett (~jdaggett@public.cloak)
- # [21:31] <SimonSapin> fantasai: I ended up doing some manual fixes on Bikeshed’s output for publishing Syntax
- # [21:35] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
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- # [23:56] * Quits: teoli (~teoli@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
- # [23:58] * Quits: darktears (~darktears@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
- # [23:59] * Joins: teoli (~teoli@public.cloak)
- # Session Close: Thu Oct 24 00:00:00 2013
The end :)