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- # Session Ident: #css
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- # [17:20] * glazou changes topic to 'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Nov/0417.html'
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- # [17:20] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/11/27-css-irc
- # [17:20] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
- # [17:20] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 36 minutes
- # [17:20] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
- # [17:20] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
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- # [17:52] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
- # [17:52] <Zakim> +dael
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- # [17:52] <Zakim> +??P21
- # [17:52] <glazou> Zakim, ??P21 is me
- # [17:52] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
- # [17:52] <dael> scribenick: dael
- # [17:53] <Zakim> +plinss
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- # [17:54] <Zakim> +SylvaIng
- # [17:54] <Zakim> +??P7
- # [17:54] <SimonSapin> Zakim, ??P7 is me
- # [17:54] <Zakim> +SimonSapin; got it
- # [17:54] <Zakim> +??P10
- # [17:55] <Zakim> -??P10
- # [17:55] <Zakim> +??P8
- # [17:55] <abinader> Zakim, +??P8 is me
- # [17:55] <Zakim> sorry, abinader, I do not recognize a party named '+??P8'
- # [17:56] <glazou> Zakim, ??P8 is abinader
- # [17:56] <Zakim> +abinader; got it
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- # [17:56] <glazou> abinader, you have to omit the +
- # [17:56] <Zakim> +Stearns
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- # [17:56] <abinader> glazou: ah, thx, got it
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- # [17:57] <Zakim> + +40.30.010.aaaa
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- # [17:57] <antonp> Zakim, aaaa is me
- # [17:57] <Zakim> +antonp; got it
- # [17:57] <Zakim> +Bert
- # [17:57] * plh zakim, call plh-mobile
- # [17:57] * Zakim ok, plh; the call is being made
- # [17:57] <Zakim> +Plh
- # [17:58] <Zakim> +AWK
- # [17:58] <Zakim> +??P13
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- # [17:58] <Zakim> +fantasai
- # [17:58] <Zakim> +[Bloomberg]
- # [17:59] <c_palmer> Zakim, [Bloomberg] is me
- # [17:59] <Zakim> +c_palmer; got it
- # [17:59] * sgalineau in case of storms, make sure you have a backup generator and a fantasai on hand
- # [17:59] * Zakim sgalineau, you typed too many words without commas; I suspect you forgot to start with 'to ...'
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- # [17:59] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
- # [17:59] <sgalineau> Zakim, don't tell me how many words is too many
- # [17:59] <Zakim> I don't understand you, sgalineau
- # [17:59] <glazou> Zakim, [Microsoft] has israelh
- # [17:59] <Zakim> +israelh; got it
- # [18:00] <glazou> sgalineau, we need to spec that, let's discuss a name :-)
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- # [18:01] * Zakim hears abinader's hand up
- # [18:01] * Zakim sees abinader on the speaker queue
- # [18:01] <abinader> sorry
- # [18:01] <abinader> Zakim, mute me
- # [18:01] <Zakim> abinader should now be muted
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- # [18:02] <abinader> how to unqueue?
- # [18:02] <Zakim> +??P24
- # [18:02] <glazou> Zakim, q- abinader
- # [18:02] <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
- # [18:02] <fantasai> ScribeNick: fantasai
- # [18:02] <abinader> right, noted
- # [18:02] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
- # [18:02] <koji> zakim, [ipcaller] is me
- # [18:02] <Zakim> +koji; got it
- # [18:03] <astearns> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-shapes/
- # [18:03] <fantasai> astearns: Made edits, shapes is ready for LC
- # [18:03] <fantasai> fantasai: Sounds good to me
- # [18:03] <fantasai> glazou: Me too
- # [18:03] <fantasai> Rossen: Let's do it
- # [18:04] <fantasai> RESOLVED: LC for Shapes
- # [18:04] <fantasai> Bert: Which groups shall we ask for review?
- # [18:05] <fantasai> astearns: SVG certainly
- # [18:05] <fantasai> glazou: DigiPub IG
- # [18:05] <plh> q+
- # [18:05] * Zakim sees plh on the speaker queue
- # [18:05] <plh> q-
- # [18:05] * Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
- # [18:06] <fantasai> [discuss LC period]
- # [18:06] <adenilson> Zakim, who is on the call?
- # [18:06] <Zakim> On the phone I see dael, glazou, plinss, SylvaIng, SimonSapin, abinader (muted), Stearns, antonp, Bert, Plh, AWK, ??P13, fantasai, c_palmer, [Microsoft], ??P24, koji
- # [18:06] <fantasai> deadline: 8 January 2014
- # [18:06] <Zakim> [Microsoft] has israelh
- # [18:06] <Zakim> +dbaron
- # [18:06] * sgalineau thinks we need LC period dice
- # [18:06] <fantasai> er, 7 January 2014
- # [18:06] <fantasai> (tuesday)
- # [18:07] <fantasai> people can ask for extension
- # [18:07] <fantasai> glazou: plinss mentioned request from WebVTT
- # [18:07] <fantasai> plinss: Forgot to forward email to WG...
- # [18:07] <fantasai> plinss: They want us to look at ::cue-region etc.
- # [18:07] <plinss> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/text-tracks/raw-file/default/608toVTT/region.html
- # [18:08] <fantasai> glazou: How much time to we have?
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- # [18:08] <fantasai> plinss: Didn't mention it in the email
- # [18:08] <plinss> http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/#css-extensions
- # [18:09] <fantasai> Bert: I'm interested in reviewing
- # [18:09] <fantasai> glazou: Let's shoot for 2 weeks
- # [18:09] <fantasai> ACTION everyone: Review the WebVTT spec for ::cue and ::cue-region
- # [18:09] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
- # [18:09] * RRSAgent records action 1
- # [18:09] <trackbot> Error finding 'everyone'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/users>.
- # [18:09] <fantasai> glazou: I've another concern about CSS stuff being in other specs
- # [18:09] <fantasai> glazou: Shadow DOM is adding CSS stuff to Shadow DOM spec
- # [18:10] <glazou> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23467
- # [18:10] <fantasai> glazou: There's an experimental feature introducing two new combinators to Selectors
- # [18:10] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
- # [18:10] <abinader> I'd like to mention if is it possible to add CSS3 Text Decoration properties as CSS extensions of WebVTT
- # [18:10] <fantasai> glazou: We should monitor this, before it becomes too late to discuss anymore
- # [18:10] * leaverou IRC only today, :( I'm in Manila and the hotel internet is way too bad for Skype calls (I've tried...)
- # [18:10] * fantasai abinader??
- # [18:10] <abinader> currently only text-decoration is listed there
- # [18:11] * fantasai file that against webVTT
- # [18:11] <abinader> but on CSS3 spec it is now a shorthand
- # [18:11] * Zakim sees but on the speaker queue
- # [18:11] <abinader> fantasai: right
- # [18:11] <glazou> Zakim, mute SimonSapin
- # [18:11] <Zakim> SimonSapin should now be muted
- # [18:11] <fantasai> http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/#css-extensions
- # [18:11] <fantasai> That's Tab's summary of Shadow DOM stuff
- # [18:12] <fantasai> Topic: Dates for Seattle
- # [18:12] <SimonSapin> About Grid, I’d like to hear from Rossen on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Nov/0382.html
- # [18:12] <fantasai> glazou: Dates are firm?
- # [18:12] <fantasai> sylvaing: We currently have that week booked
- # [18:12] <fantasai> sylvaing: Can swap CSS/SVG, but everything is booked for that week
- # [18:12] <Zakim> -abinader
- # [18:12] <fantasai> sylvaing: Right now CSS is M-W
- # [18:13] <fantasai> glazou: Maybe we should freeze that so ppl can book their flights
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- # [18:13] <dbaron> I probably prefer CSS first (i.e., M-W as currently planned), because I'd like to be in the bay area at least a few days that week, and M-W lets me return Wednesday night.
- # [18:13] * Quits: michou (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
- # [18:13] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Seattle F2F 27-29 January
- # [18:14] <fantasai> sylvaing will add more info next week
- # [18:14] <fantasai> glazou: I got a request from szilles to sort out September dates
- # [18:15] <Zakim> +??P3
- # [18:15] <abinader> Zakim: ??P3 is me
- # [18:15] * dbaron Zakim, who is noisy?
- # [18:15] <abinader> Zakim, ??P3 is me
- # [18:15] <Zakim> +abinader; got it
- # [18:15] <fantasai> fantasai suggests sorting this on a call with more people
- # [18:15] * Zakim dbaron, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P3 (42%), SylvaIng (13%), Bert (5%), glazou (21%)
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- # [18:15] <glazou> Zakim, mute abinader
- # [18:15] <Zakim> abinader should now be muted
- # [18:16] * sgalineau didn't hear whether we had a location for september...
- # [18:16] <fantasai> ACTION glazou: send email wrt dates for September F2F
- # [18:16] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
- # [18:16] * RRSAgent records action 2
- # [18:16] <trackbot> Created ACTION-600 - Send email wrt dates for september f2f [on Daniel Glazman - due 2013-12-04].
- # [18:16] <fantasai> Topic: nav-up/down/left/right
- # [18:16] * plh Sylvain, location is Sophia
- # [18:16] * sgalineau cool, thx
- # [18:16] <fantasai> glazou: We have 2 or 3 interoperable implementations at this time, implementing the four properties
- # [18:16] <fantasai> glazou: I contributed 64 tests, that need review
- # [18:16] <fantasai> glazou: The tests are partly based on what Opera did
- # [18:16] <fantasai> glazou: Good news is that all tests are passed by at least 2 impls
- # [18:17] * dbaron is not crazy about meeting in Sophia...
- # [18:17] <fantasai> glazou: So I don't think the properties are at-risk anymore, but up to WG to decide
- # [18:17] <fantasai> sylvaing: How comprehensive is 64?
- # [18:17] <fantasai> glazou: I made a test for every normative statement in the spec
- # [18:17] <fantasai> glazou: I think 64 is final
- # [18:17] * dbaron is now known as dbaron-away
- # [18:17] <fantasai> sylvaing: or very close. Good
- # [18:18] <fantasai> fantasai: I don't see a problem
- # [18:18] <fantasai> sylvaing: me neither
- # [18:18] <fantasai> plh: What are the two implementations?
- # [18:18] <fantasai> glazou: Opera TV emulator
- # [18:18] <fantasai> glazou: 2nd/3rd are Smart TV emulator from Samsung and build of Chromium that matches that implementation
- # [18:18] * dbaron-away is now known as dbaron
- # [18:18] <fantasai> glazou: emulator is difficult to test
- # [18:18] <fantasai> glazou: but can use standalone browser Chromium
- # [18:18] <fantasai> glazou: Same feature based on same code
- # [18:19] <fantasai> rossen: First one is Presto?
- # [18:19] <fantasai> glazou: Presto
- # [18:19] <fantasai> Rossen: So we have one Presto and one Blink
- # [18:19] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Remove nav-up/down/left/right from CSS3 UI
- # [18:20] <fantasai> ACTION glazou: Make that edit
- # [18:20] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
- # [18:20] * RRSAgent records action 3
- # [18:20] <trackbot> Created ACTION-601 - Make that edit [on Daniel Glazman - due 2013-12-04].
- # [18:20] <fantasai> Topic: Spread Radius Formula
- # [18:20] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Nov/0290.html
- # [18:20] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Nov/0290.html
- # [18:21] <fantasai> fantasai: At TPAC we were talking about the discontinuity of the spread shape between border radius of zero and non-zero
- # [18:21] <fantasai> fantasai: And dbaron suggested making some kind of gradual increase
- # [18:21] <fantasai> fantasai: So after some informal discussions, we came up with a fairly simple formula
- # [18:21] <fantasai> fantasai: 1 + (x-1)^3
- # [18:22] <fantasai> fantasai: which describes how much of the spread distance to add to the curve radius while it is less than the border radius
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- # [18:22] <glazou> SRUK is going to be happy
- # [18:22] <glazou> sorry
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- # [18:22] <fantasai> fantasai: This gives the same results in case of zero and in case of border-radius greatre than spread
- # [18:22] <fantasai> fantasai: But in between it interpolates smoothly
- # [18:23] <fantasai> fantasai: slowing down the rate of change so that it hits constant 1 smoothly
- # [18:23] <fantasai> fantasai: And the rate of change at the beginning is not too fast
- # [18:24] <fantasai> fantasai: The result looks better than the previous definition in all cases
- # [18:24] <glazou> see http://is.gd/miUFlA
- # [18:24] <fantasai> fantasai: Because it used to look weird when you had a small border-radius and large spread readius
- # [18:24] <fantasai> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-backgrounds/spread-radius
- # [18:24] <astearns> x = border-radius/spread
- # [18:24] <fantasai> fantasai: You can play with formulas we tried there
- # [18:25] <fantasai> plinss: I added a bezier function to that demo as well
- # [18:25] <fantasai> plinss: Adds a lot of ability to change curve
- # [18:25] <fantasai> plinss: cubic-bezier is what's used in transitions
- # [18:26] <astearns> also used for calculating the margin-box shape, where x = border-radius/margin
- # [18:26] <fantasai> fantasai: I think the cubic looks good enough, but if people have reasons to tweak the behavior (moves too fast here, too slow there), can play with cubic bezier
- # [18:26] <Rossen_> ^3 ftw
- # [18:27] <astearns> +1 for cubic from me
- # [18:27] * Ms2ger a "high three"?
- # [18:27] * sgalineau likes cubic best from the demo page
- # [18:27] <fantasai> fantasai: My suggestion is to accept the cubic function in the spec, and take it to LC
- # [18:27] <fantasai> glazou: Looks good to me
- # [18:28] <fantasai> Bert: I see little difference between them
- # [18:28] * sgalineau though the ability to use a bezier could be fun in a future level...
- # [18:28] * glazou sgalineau agreed
- # [18:29] * glazou sgalineau we used to discuss names, now we discuss maths :-)
- # [18:29] <fantasai> fantasai: You have to set the spread to something large, then bend the radius very slowly from zero to equal to spread
- # [18:29] <fantasai> fantasai: The difference is in the rate near zero
- # [18:29] <fantasai> fantasai: Cubic looks better
- # [18:29] <fantasai> glazou: Do we want to extend in the future?
- # [18:29] <fantasai> dbaron: Don't think is something we want multiple options for
- # [18:30] <fantasai> sylvaing: Might want the possibilities, but for now cubic is great
- # [18:30] <SimonSapin> +1 for cubic, but this looks to me like a tiny difference that you have too for. Let’s pick something and move on.
- # [18:30] * sgalineau supports math bikeshedding
- # [18:30] <fantasai> RESOLVED: use cubic function for spread radius bending
- # [18:31] <fantasai> fantasai: Want to take css3-background through LC
- # [18:32] <fantasai> astearns: The spec doesn't currently describe how background-position animates correctly
- # [18:32] <fantasai> astearns: Can post that to the list
- # [18:32] * Ms2ger glazou: progress :)
- # [18:32] * glazou Ms2ger, ?
- # [18:33] * Ms2ger "we used to discuss names, now we discuss maths"
- # [18:33] * glazou Ms2ger eheh
- # [18:33] <fantasai> fantasai: Reads off Animatable line of spec
- # [18:33] <fantasai> fantasai: That's clearly wrong
- # [18:33] <dbaron> dbaron: I think a <position> can be represented as a pair of values if you use calc() functions
- # [18:33] <fantasai> dbaron: You can represent all positions as two values of length, percentage, or calc
- # [18:33] <fantasai> dbaron: That's what we do in Gecko
- # [18:34] <fantasai> astearns: In Gecko you might do that, but the Animatable line doesn't match the computed value
- # [18:34] <fantasai> fantasai: So, the reason the computed value line is written that way
- # [18:35] <fantasai> fantasai: is because in L4 we expect to add logical keywords
- # [18:35] <dbaron> dbaron: ... but you also can't animate between that purely in the computed value space
- # [18:35] <fantasai> fantasai: and you cannot animate between physical and logical coords
- # [18:35] <fantasai> ...
- # [18:36] <fantasai> fantasai: So, we could make physical coords animatable like in Gecko
- # [18:36] <fantasai> fantasai: And for logical coords, you'd do the same but with keywords for start start origin
- # [18:36] <fantasai> fantasai: and then you can't animate between the two
- # [18:36] <fantasai> dbaron: ...
- # [18:36] <fantasai> dbaron: So I think this spec needs to write a definition for animating <position>
- # [18:36] <dbaron> dbaron: I don't think we should do it during the call
- # [18:37] <fantasai> fantasai: Would that go in this spec, or values and units?
- # [18:37] <fantasai> dbaron: Whatever defines <position>
- # [18:37] <fantasai> glazou: So, we wait for that?
- # [18:37] <fantasai> dbaron: Could probably handle as LC comment
- # [18:38] <fantasai> ...
- # [18:39] <fantasai> fantasai [... stuff about publishing]
- # [18:39] <fantasai> fantasai: We'll plan to publish Thursday, send in pub request early, and just prep the draft after the call next week
- # [18:39] <fantasai> glazou: Anything else on that topic?
- # [18:39] <fantasai> nope
- # [18:40] <fantasai> Topic: CSSOM
- # [18:40] <fantasai> fantasai: I think it's pretty out of date. We should publish an update
- # [18:40] <SimonSapin> +1 to publish
- # [18:40] <glazou> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/cssom/
- # [18:40] <fantasai> Bert: Agree in principle, but what is state of current editor's draft?
- # [18:41] <plh> +1 to publish
- # [18:41] <fantasai> Bert: List of changes since previous draft?
- # [18:42] <fantasai> Bert: I don't object to publishing, but was wondering if anyone could tell me what actually changed since last time
- # [18:42] <fantasai> glazou: I have the same comment, don't object to publishing, but would also like to know what changed
- # [18:42] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Publish new WD of CSSOM with improved Changes list
- # [18:42] <SimonSapin> Zakim, unmute me
- # [18:42] <Zakim> SimonSapin should no longer be muted
- # [18:42] <fantasai> Topic: Grids
- # [18:43] <fantasai> SimonSapin: As discussed with Tab on ML
- # [18:43] <fantasai> SimonSapin: syntax of grid-template-areas
- # [18:43] <fantasai> SimonSapin: Would like hear from MSFT in particular
- # [18:43] <fantasai> SimonSapin: String values inside that property as "parsed as CSS"
- # [18:43] <fantasai> SimonSapin: We end up with possibilities of double-escaping
- # [18:44] <fantasai> SimonSapin: Tab and I agree it would be better to define a small special parsing
- # [18:44] <fantasai> SimonSapin: for content of templates inside string
- # [18:44] <fantasai> SimonSapin: i.e. how to parse into identifiers
- # [18:44] <fantasai> Rossen: OK, I will go over today and send email. Don't think we need to discuss over call
- # [18:45] <fantasai> glazou: Another item I'd like to discuss, maybe not today, is charter. See message from Bert
- # [18:45] <fantasai> glazou: Please review charter and send comments for next week
- # [18:46] <fantasai> Meeting closed.
- # [18:46] <Zakim> -dbaron
- # [18:46] <Zakim> -AWK
- # [18:46] <Zakim> -c_palmer
- # [18:46] <Zakim> -??P24
- # [18:46] <Zakim> -fantasai
- # [18:46] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
- # [18:46] <Zakim> -glazou
- # [18:46] <Zakim> -??P13
- # [18:46] <Zakim> -Stearns
- # [18:46] <Zakim> -SylvaIng
- # [18:46] <Zakim> -Plh
- # [18:46] <Zakim> -dael
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- # [18:46] <Zakim> -abinader
- # [18:46] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
- # [18:46] <Zakim> -SimonSapin
- # [18:46] <Zakim> -antonp
- # [18:46] <Zakim> -koji
- # [18:46] <Zakim> -Bert
- # [18:46] <Zakim> -plinss
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- # [18:46] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
- # [18:46] <Zakim> Attendees were dael, glazou, plinss, SylvaIng, SimonSapin, abinader, Stearns, +40.30.010.aaaa, antonp, Bert, Plh, AWK, fantasai, c_palmer, israelh, koji, dbaron, [Microsoft]
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- # [19:13] <fantasai> Bert, can you remove the following line from the writing modes /TR draft? TabAtkins added it for some of his stuff, but it breaks when notes and floats are side-by-side, which happens in writing modes...
- # [19:14] <fantasai> .heading, .issue, .note, .example, li, dt { position: relative; }
- # [19:14] <Bert> From the default.css style sheet you mean? I guess so.
- # [19:17] <Bert> OK, seems fixed now.
- # [19:17] <Bert> fantasai, can you check?
- # [19:18] <fantasai> Bert: yep, thanks!
- # [19:19] * fantasai supposes this needs a more permanent fix
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The end :)