/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2013-12-17 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Dec 17 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #css
  3. # [00:00] <fantasai> oh
  4. # [00:00] <fantasai> why is it <b>?
  5. # [00:00] <krit> fantasai: for structure
  6. # [00:01] <fantasai> ...
  7. # [00:01] <fantasai> I don't think that's really great
  8. # [00:01] <fantasai> a) you're effectively highlighting mostly non-semantic information
  9. # [00:01] <fantasai> b) use a heading if you want structure :)
  10. # [00:02] <fantasai> Scannability of a spec is important to its usability, so it's good to highlight things that are actually meaningful
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  31. # [00:04] <krit> fantasai: I can remove it, but then it might not be so obvious that this is the beginning of the second operation
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  38. # [00:07] <fantasai> krit: Ok, let me know when you're finished, and then I'll try to help you restructure things so it all fits together nicely :)
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  40. # [00:33] <krit> fantasai: Ok, mask source and mask image is one and the same thing now. The text just refers to a mask image from now on. The section "Mask source value" is renamed to "mask processing” and explains how to get the mask value from a mask image
  41. # [00:34] <krit> fantasai: I added to headlines in the introduction section and removed the <b>s
  42. # [00:35] <krit> s/to/two/
  43. # [00:49] <krit> fantasai: I am in CET time zone. If you wish more time to review the spec today, please take the time and send replies to the mailing list (referencing the changed text in CSS Masking)
  44. # [00:49] <fantasai> OK
  45. # [00:51] <fantasai> krit: I sent a handful of replies already
  46. # [00:51] <krit> fantasai: ok, in this case I am reading the mails in the later morning hours (1am here :) )
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  54. # [01:49] <TabAtkins> krit: pong
  55. # [01:50] <TabAtkins> fantasai: We use <b> in a few spots just to highlight "almost headings".
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  57. # [01:52] <krit> TabAtkins: because of heading :) Shephard recognizes headings. Is there a way to reference headings from Bikeshed? <a heading>blah</a> didn’t work
  58. # [01:52] <TabAtkins> No, you can't. Link to them by id - that's supposed to be stable, unlike heading names.
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  60. # [02:26] <krit> fantasai: you propose two ways to group <mask> mask-type and <clipPath> clip-rule. I assume one SVG section is the way you would prefer the grouping? I actually would like to go with the first suggestion SVG clipping and SVG masking.
  61. # [02:27] <TabAtkins> I like that one as well, I think.
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  66. # [05:20] <fantasai> krit: I don't mind much, as long as the elements and the properties which only apply to those elements are grouped together somehow :)
  67. # [05:20] <fantasai> krit: An alternative would be to make the property a subsection of the element definition
  68. # [05:20] <fantasai> in each case
  69. # [05:21] <fantasai> TabAtkins: "First Section" and "Second Section" aren't reasonable content for headings of any kind
  70. # [05:21] <fantasai> TabAtkins: also, we use <strong> for the things we edit together.
  71. # [05:21] <fantasai> TabAtkins: if you're referring to things like the flexbox algo steps
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  79. # [06:51] <astearns> fantasai: ping
  80. # [06:53] <astearns> not sure what you mean by "This also matches up to Shapes, which defaults to the border-box."
  81. # [06:53] <astearns> shape-outside defaults to the margin box for a reference box
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  86. # [07:31] <krit> fantasai: changed the headings
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  216. # [21:13] <krit> fantasai: if you would have time to look at the changes to masking again today, this would be really great!
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  228. # [23:26] <astearns> TabAtkins: dbaron: any thoughts on computedStyle/animation of <position>?
  229. # [23:26] <TabAtkins> Yes, plenty. ^_^
  230. # [23:26] <astearns> incoherent, burbling ones?
  231. # [23:27] <TabAtkins> Only when the stars are right.
  232. # [23:27] <dbaron> astearns, I guess I don't have strong opinions about computed style, but it should be straightforward to make animation always be smooth, at least via calc(), and I wouldn't want an animation solution that doesn't do that.
  233. # [23:27] <TabAtkins> I've been giving this a small amount of thought, though this is the first time I'm committing it to words:
  234. # [23:28] <astearns> dbaron: would you be OK with splitting computedStyle from interpolation as I suggested in my last post?
  235. # [23:28] <TabAtkins> I think the computed style should be some number of axis/position pairs, where a position is a sum of a <percentage> and a <length>.
  236. # [23:28] <dbaron> astearns, not sure what that means
  237. # [23:28] <TabAtkins> Because we can animate smoothly between left/right in that case, or top/bottom, or block-start/block-end, etc.
  238. # [23:29] <TabAtkins> astearns: Just to make sure: you're not confusing computed style and the results of getComputedStyle, are you?
  239. # [23:29] <TabAtkins> Because the latter is a *serialization* fo the computed style, which doesn't help us much when talkinga bout interpolation.
  240. # [23:31] <astearns> if interpolation MUST be between two computed styles, then what we specify for <position>'s computed style needs to be animatable
  241. # [23:31] <TabAtkins> Yes.
  242. # [23:31] <astearns> if we can break the connection in some cases, we might be able to get a more generally-useful computed style
  243. # [23:31] <TabAtkins> Nah, no need to break it.
  244. # [23:32] <TabAtkins> (And it would just involve adding a new style layer.)
  245. # [23:32] <TabAtkins> Rather, new value stage.
  246. # [23:33] <astearns> then could you respond to my post, saying it's a bad idea? :)
  247. # [23:33] <TabAtkins> Ugh, FINE
  248. # [23:34] <astearns> does serialization always use the computed style as an input?
  249. # [23:34] <TabAtkins> If you're serializing the computed style, yes. ^_^
  250. # [23:35] <astearns> are there serializations of other stages, like specified value?
  251. # [23:35] <TabAtkins> Yeah, like if you ask for el.style.backgroundPosition.
  252. # [23:35] <TabAtkins> Or if you ask for getComputedStyle on one of the legacy properties.
  253. # [23:37] <astearns> so for <position> property, the serialization in el.style.foo might be one-value, while the serialization of the computed style might be four (or whatever we determine is the computed style)
  254. # [23:38] <TabAtkins> Yeah.
  255. # [23:40] <TabAtkins> Ah, good, we did name the value stage that el.style.foo represents: "declared value".
  256. # [23:41] <astearns> ugh. to go along with parsed/cascaded/specified/computed/used/actual/serialized.
  257. # [23:41] <TabAtkins> Hey, it exists with or without a name.
  258. # [23:41] <TabAtkins> Better to have it named.
  259. # [23:41] <astearns> how is declared different than specified?
  260. # [23:42] <TabAtkins> Quite a bit!
  261. # [23:42] <TabAtkins> bunches of declared -> single cascaded.
  262. # [23:42] <TabAtkins> cascaded (with initial/inherit/unset processed) -> specified.
  263. # [23:42] <TabAtkins> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-cascade/#declared
  264. # [23:44] <astearns> I don't see how el.style.foo could be the declared step. There's only one, it seems like it would be the cascaded value
  265. # [23:45] <TabAtkins> Go re-read what el.style is. ^_^
  266. # [23:45] <TabAtkins> It's just a JS API to the style='' attribute.
  267. # [23:45] <astearns> ah, ok
  268. # [23:47] <astearns> I remember a proposal to expose some/all of these stages to JS
  269. # [23:47] <TabAtkins> Yup, still plan to do that.
  270. # [23:48] <TabAtkins> It requires tightening up a lot of loose definitions.
  271. # [23:48] <astearns> as strings, or actually parsed?
  272. # [23:48] <TabAtkins> Parsed!
  273. # [23:48] <TabAtkins> Strings are shitty. I don't use strings in my programs anymore.
  274. # [23:48] <TabAtkins> Just arrays of integers representing codepoints.
  275. # [23:49] <astearns> agreed on strings are bad - is the proposal written down anywhere?
  276. # [23:49] <TabAtkins> Not really!
  277. # [23:50] <astearns> well if/when we get to it, I'm interested in working on it (if only to shed my general ignorance of this area)
  278. # [23:51] <TabAtkins> Cool, we can chat in Seattle, or earlier if you have time.
  279. # Session Close: Wed Dec 18 00:00:01 2013

The end :)