/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2013-12-18 / end

Options:

# Session Start: Wed Dec 18 00:00:01 2013
# Session Ident: #css
# [00:05] <TabAtkins> Hm, I guess we don't know the text orientation at computed-value time, since it could be established by any ancestor and we want computed values to depend only on the style of the element and its parent.
# [00:21] * Quits: dwim (~dwim@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [00:21] * Joins: dwim (~dwim@public.cloak)
# [00:36] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [00:45] * Quits: sgalineau (~sgalineau@public.cloak) ("Computer has gone to sleep.")
# [00:48] * Joins: sgalineau (~sgalineau@public.cloak)
# [00:50] <TabAtkins> fantasai: calc() talks about a "," operator. Any idea why?
# [01:06] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
# [01:07] * Quits: sgalineau (~sgalineau@public.cloak) ("Computer has gone to sleep.")
# [01:12] <fantasai> shepazu: I think your request for a keyword should be "key words", note the space an the plural
# [01:12] * fantasai reads scrollback
# [01:14] <fantasai> TabAtkins: I like the idea of axis + offset
# [01:14] <fantasai> TabAtkins: That should work with all the crazy things I have in mind for L4 ;)
# [01:14] <fantasai> TabAtkins: no idea why calc() talks aobut a "," operator
# [01:14] * fantasai looks
# [01:17] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [01:25] * Joins: jdaggett (~jdaggett@public.cloak)
# [02:01] * Quits: dwim (~dwim@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [02:01] * Joins: dwim (~dwim@public.cloak)
# [02:15] * Quits: dwim (~dwim@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [02:15] * Joins: dwim (~dwim@public.cloak)
# [02:29] * Quits: rhauck (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
# [02:29] * Joins: rhauck (~Adium@public.cloak)
# [02:36] * Quits: rhauck (~Adium@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [02:47] * Quits: lmcliste_ (~lmclister@public.cloak) ("")
# [03:25] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Also, never mind, when I was almost finished making the V&U edits I ran into the paragraph that already specifies this behavior. I'm instead reverting all my changes (they weren't committed yet), and just pushed an example instead to highlight the behavior.
# [05:06] <fantasai> TabAtkins: cool
# [05:07] * fantasai was worried
# [05:07] <fantasai> TabAtkins: btw, any progress on example images for grid abspos? It's the main thing holding up publication at this point
# [05:07] <fantasai> iirc
# [05:54] * Quits: darktears (~darktears@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [05:59] * Quits: dwim (~dwim@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [06:00] * Joins: dwim (~dwim@public.cloak)
# [06:39] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [06:51] * Quits: dwim (~dwim@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [06:52] * Joins: dwim (~dwim@public.cloak)
# [08:03] * Joins: sgalineau (~sgalineau@public.cloak)
# [08:12] * Quits: sgalineau (~sgalineau@public.cloak) ("Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com")
# [08:47] * Joins: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak)
# [09:04] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak)
# [09:08] * Quits: dwim (~dwim@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [09:08] * Joins: dwim (~dwim@public.cloak)
# [09:30] * Quits: jdaggett (~jdaggett@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [09:57] * Quits: dwim (~dwim@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [09:57] * Joins: dwim (~dwim@public.cloak)
# [10:21] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
# [12:20] * Quits: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak) (nvdbleek)
# [12:20] * Joins: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak)
# [12:20] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak) ("bbl")
# [12:56] * Quits: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak) (nvdbleek)
# [13:05] * Joins: darktears (~darktears@public.cloak)
# [13:37] * Joins: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak)
# [13:56] * Joins: plh (plehegar@public.cloak)
# [14:13] * Quits: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak) (nvdbleek)
# [14:23] * Joins: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak)
# [14:43] * Quits: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak) (nvdbleek)
# [14:50] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak)
# [14:51] * Joins: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak)
# [15:07] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [15:14] * Quits: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak) (nvdbleek)
# [15:19] * Joins: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak)
# [15:27] * Joins: oyvind (~oyvinds@public.cloak)
# [15:27] * Parts: oyvind (~oyvinds@public.cloak) (oyvind)
# [15:31] * Quits: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak) (nvdbleek)
# [16:03] * Quits: dwim (~dwim@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
# [16:03] * Joins: dwim (~dwim@public.cloak)
# [16:03] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
# [16:18] * Joins: antonp (~Thunderbird@public.cloak)
# [16:35] <SimonSapin> fantasai: did you say i18n WG would have comments on Syntax?
# [16:35] * Joins: rhauck (~Adium@public.cloak)
# [16:36] * Joins: rossen_ (~uid21900@public.cloak)
# [16:44] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [16:48] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
# [16:57] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak)
# [17:09] * Joins: glazou (~glazou@public.cloak)
# [17:09] * Joins: Zakim (zakim@public.cloak)
# [17:09] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
# [17:09] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 54 minutes
# [17:09] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
# [17:09] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
# [17:09] * glazou changes topic to 'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Dec/0390.html'
# [17:16] * Joins: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak)
# [17:23] * Joins: lmcliste_ (~lmclister@public.cloak)
# [17:29] * Quits: rhauck (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
# [17:53] * Joins: sgalineau (~sgalineau@public.cloak)
# [17:54] * Joins: dael (~dael@public.cloak)
# [17:56] * Joins: rhauck (~Adium@public.cloak)
# [17:58] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
# [17:58] <Zakim> +??P40
# [17:58] <glazou> Zakim, ??P40 is me
# [17:59] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
# [17:59] <Zakim> +dael
# [17:59] * Joins: AR (~AR@public.cloak)
# [17:59] <Zakim> +??P42
# [17:59] <abinader> Zakim, ??P42 is me
# [17:59] <Zakim> +abinader; got it
# [17:59] <dael> ScribeNick: Dael
# [17:59] * Joins: jerenkrantz (~jerenkrantz@public.cloak)
# [18:00] <Zakim> +krit
# [18:00] <Zakim> +[Bloomberg]
# [18:00] <Zakim> + +2aaaa
# [18:00] <jerenkrantz> Zakim, Bloomberg has me
# [18:00] <Zakim> +jerenkrantz; got it
# [18:01] <Zakim> +cabanier
# [18:01] <sgalineau> Zakim, aaaa is me
# [18:01] <Zakim> +sgalineau; got it
# [18:01] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [18:02] * Joins: oyvind (~oyvinds@public.cloak)
# [18:02] <jerenkrantz> you're not alone
# [18:03] <Zakim> +plinss
# [18:03] <Zakim> +Stearns
# [18:03] * Quits: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak) (nvdbleek)
# [18:03] <Zakim> +dauwhe
# [18:04] <Zakim> +[Koblenz]
# [18:04] <Zakim> +[Bloomberg.a]
# [18:04] <glazou> Zakim, [Koblenz] has rhauck
# [18:04] <Zakim> +rhauck; got it
# [18:05] <Zakim> +??P68
# [18:05] <SimonSapin> Zakim, ??P68 is me
# [18:05] <Zakim> +SimonSapin; got it
# [18:05] * sgalineau had to go to SF to get rid of Zakim's Turkish I
# [18:06] <Zakim> +fantasai
# [18:06] * plh zakim, call plh-mobile
# [18:06] * Zakim ok, plh; the call is being made
# [18:06] <Zakim> +Plh
# [18:07] <dael> glazou: Let's start
# [18:07] <dael> ...: Extr tiems?
# [18:07] <Ms2ger> s/tiems/items/
# [18:07] <Zakim> +??P80
# [18:07] <dael> ...: Before we start, I would like to make a reminder about Jan F2F
# [18:07] <dael> ...: If you haven't added your data to the wiki, please do
# [18:08] <dael> ...: Also start listing agendga items
# [18:08] * Joins: smfr (~smfr@public.cloak)
# [18:08] <dael> ??: About next F2F, we need to discuss in between
# [18:08] <dael> glazou: I'm discussing to host in Seoul
# [18:08] <dael> ??: Ideas about dates?
# [18:08] <dael> glazou: Not yet
# [18:08] <plinss> s/??/SimonSapin/
# [18:08] <Zakim> +smfr
# [18:08] <dael> ...: I expect news in next few weeks
# [18:08] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Dec/0049.html
# [18:08] <dael> Topic: Compositing and Blending to CR
# [18:09] <dael> cabanier: next week I asked about CR and got comments
# [18:09] <dael> ...: Also have a comment from James Robinson.
# [18:09] <dael> ...: Ive address the issues and added to disp. of comments
# [18:09] <dael> ...: Comments were about non-normative sections and I changed to normative
# [18:09] <plh> q+
# [18:09] * Zakim sees plh on the speaker queue
# [18:09] <dael> ...: I thought that would take us back to LC, but reading process doc this doesn't seem needed
# [18:10] <dael> ...: So can we go to CR, or do we need another LC
# [18:10] <glazou> Zakim, ack plh
# [18:10] <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
# [18:10] <dael> plh: I think we need to go back to LC
# [18:10] <dael> ...: If we changed to normative, y ou're changing what's covered in spec
# [18:10] <dael> cabanier: I didn't know non-normative isn't covered
# [18:10] <dael> plh: It's not
# [18:10] <Zakim> +David_Baron
# [18:10] <dael> cabanier: Then we need to put it back. I'd like shortest period poss.
# [18:10] <dael> ,,,: That's 2 weeks. Is that okay?
# [18:11] <dael> ??: Isn't it 4?
# [18:11] <dael> cabanier: No, it's 2, I'll double check
# [18:11] <SimonSapin> s/??/plh
# [18:11] <glazou> s/??/plh
# [18:11] <cabanier> "Duration of the review: The announcement begins a review period that should last at least three weeks but may last longer if the technical report is complex or has significant external dependencies."
# [18:11] <dael> cabanier: Announcement begins revew and it should be three weeks
# [18:11] <dael> glazou: Any obj or comments?
# [18:11] <dael> ??: Three from when?
# [18:11] <dael> plh: from pub
# [18:11] <dael> ??: Yes, be we control pub
# [18:11] <glazou> s/??/sylvaing
# [18:12] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
# [18:12] <dael> plh: We can go soon
# [18:12] <dael> sylvaing: We're looking to pub on 28th?
# [18:12] <dael> glazou: Pub on 7th, end on 28th
# [18:12] * Joins: MaRakow (~MaRakow@public.cloak)
# [18:12] <dael> cabanier: Yes, publish on 7th, end on 28th
# [18:12] <dael> sylvaing: So ends in middle of F2F?
# [18:12] <dael> glazou: That's fine.
# [18:12] <sgalineau> s/sylvaing/simon
# [18:12] <dael> cabanier: That's perfect.
# [18:13] <dael> glazou: Any obj?
# [18:13] <dael> fantasai: For what?
# [18:13] <dael> glazou: Compositing and blending
# [18:13] <dael> RESOLVED: New LC for Compositing and Blending
# [18:13] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Dec/0387.html
# [18:13] <dael> Topic: CSS Syntax
# [18:13] <dael> SimonSapin: LC has ended, had a few comments, but issue was fixed
# [18:14] <dael> ...: No FB from working groups we pinged
# [18:14] <dael> ...: Go to CR, or ping again?
# [18:14] <dael> glazou: From process we did waht we were to do
# [18:14] <dael> ...: If no answer we can assume no comment
# [18:14] <dauwhe> s/waht/what/
# [18:14] <dael> ...: ONly two comments that were fixed means little controversy, so go to CR
# [18:14] <dael> SimonSapin: Many people may be on holiday right now
# [18:15] <dbaron> I wouldn't expect comments from these groups anyway...
# [18:15] <Zakim> +SteveZ
# [18:15] <dael> glazou: We can look for comprimise. Can't pub CR before early Jan anyway. Can resolve now and if get major comment we revisit
# [18:15] <dael> ...: You can ping non-responcive groups in the meantime
# [18:15] <dael> SimonSapin: Sounds good
# [18:15] <dael> glazou: Any obj to publishing CR of level 3?
# [18:15] <dael> RESOLVED: Publish CR of Syntax Level 3
# [18:15] <Zakim> +Lea
# [18:16] <dael> SimonSapin: Wasn't there something about encouding in syntax, fantasai?
# [18:16] <plh> for publication on january 7, ping Chris or plh
# [18:16] <dael> fantasai: I don't think so
# [18:16] <dael> SimonSapin: Something from Richard?
# [18:16] <glazou> s/encouding/encoding
# [18:16] <dael> fantasai: Richard wanted to review
# [18:16] <dael> ...:May get comments from international later,t hey're a bit overbooked
# [18:16] <dael> glazou: Can we ping him again?
# [18:16] <dael> fantasai: He said they couldn't do comments by the deadline, but given how long we take to CR we can schedule now
# [18:17] <dael> ...: I doubt there will be a large note
# [18:17] <dael> SimonSapin: We can see what happens
# [18:17] <dael> glazou: The 7th gives them three extra weeks to review
# [18:17] <dael> ...: SimonSapin can you ping them?
# [18:17] <plh> q+
# [18:17] * Zakim sees plh on the speaker queue
# [18:17] <dael> glazou: So this is conditional approval pending international
# [18:17] <glazou> Zakim, ack plh
# [18:17] <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
# [18:17] <dael> plh: Bert is away, so I'm doing pub.
# [18:17] <dael> SimonSapin: Thank you
# [18:18] <dael> Topic: CSS Masking Issues
# [18:18] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Dec/0281.html
# [18:18] <krit> http://dev.w3.org/fxtf/masking/issues-lc-2013.html
# [18:18] <dael> krit: fantasai sent comments and I added my comments
# [18:18] <dael> ....: I would like to go through some, esp. 3 and 2
# [18:18] <dael> ...: Issue 3 is renaming mask-box-image
# [18:18] <dael> ...: Webkit is fine with this change and no comments from mozilla
# [18:19] <dael> ...: I'd like a resolution to rename to just mask-box
# [18:19] <dael> glazou: Comments?
# [18:19] <SimonSapin> RESOLVED: Publish Syntax 3 as CR on Jan 7, pending review from I18N WG
# [18:19] <dael> glazou: None?
# [18:19] <dael> TabAtkins: This is like border-image?
# [18:19] <dael> fantasai: Yes
# [18:19] * sgalineau would object to a LC without at least one rename
# [18:19] <dael> TabAtkins: It feels weird, but I'm not going to obj
# [18:19] <SimonSapin> s/TabAtkins/dbaron/
# [18:19] <dael> dbaron: Wierd to have mask-box that ref. image
# [18:20] * sgalineau bikeshed: auto;
# [18:20] <dael> krit: Long still references image
# [18:20] <astearns> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Dec/0223.html
# [18:20] <dael> krit: mask-box is shorthand
# [18:20] * Zakim dael, you typed too many words without commas; I suspect you forgot to start with 'to ...'
# [18:20] <dael> glazou: Is that okay for you dbaron?
# [18:20] <dael> dbaron: Yes
# [18:20] <krit> http://dev.w3.org/fxtf/css-masking-1/
# [18:20] * plh got the end date of moratorium wrong. folks can publish on Jan 2 it seems.
# [18:20] <dael> RESOLVED: shorten to mask-box from mask-box-image
# [18:21] <dael> krit: Issue 2 has a lot of prop. related
# [18:21] <dael> ...: fantasai requested a new qeyword for these related things
# [18:21] <dael> ...: Makes it obv these things belong together
# [18:21] <dael> ...: I prop. mask-position, but we have a long hand called that
# [18:21] <dael> ...: Other suggestiongs?
# [18:22] <dael> fantasai: I haven't thought about it too much, but what bugs me about current is we have mask-text and mask-sourse
# [18:22] <dael> ....: Even though it follows, it's unrelated, where as mask-force-type is
# [18:22] <dael> ....: I want the to look like they're assosciated.
# [18:22] <dael> ...: I'm not super-clear on my thoughts
# [18:22] <glazou> s/assosciated/associated
# [18:22] <dael> krit: Do we keep with what we have to do we rename to comething like mask-element-type?
# [18:23] <dael> fantasai: It's not mask-element-type? I thought we carried in from SVG
# [18:23] <dael> ...: So we can't really change that
# [18:23] <dael> krit: It was SVG 2 spec
# [18:23] <dael> fantasai: If mask-type isn't impl I would change around to mask-source-type apply to SVG elemtn
# [18:23] <dael> krit: It's impl in webkit
# [18:24] <dael> ...: Tantak might know...I think it's not...I think it can be changed
# [18:24] <dael> fantasai: If anyone has other thoughts?
# [18:24] <glazou> s/Tantak/Tantek
# [18:24] <dael> fantasai: Maybe discuss on list?
# [18:24] <dael> krit: Yeah
# [18:24] <dael> ??: Imagine we have a syntax that makes it work as any other image which means you could get read of this and collapse the properties together
# [18:25] <dael> krit: The idea behind mask boxing was to have parr. to border image
# [18:25] <glazou> s//??/smfr
# [18:25] <dael> smfr: We've moved beyond to parr. isn't worth mantaining.
# [18:25] <fantasai> s/it work/a 9-piece image work/
# [18:25] <dael> ....: If we can do this with syntax we could simplify this
# [18:25] <dael> krit: that's one options
# [18:26] <dael> krit: We could move box-masking to second level so we have more itme to discuss
# [18:26] <dael> ...: It's a bit difficult since box-masking has a bunch of images with diff sizes
# [18:26] <dael> ....: Functionality is quite complex
# [18:26] <dael> ...: Use of box-masking...it would be good to do with one function
# [18:27] <dael> fantasai: 9-piece images is useful in a lot of ways, there's a lot you can do
# [18:27] <dael> ...: best is you can outset and inset images and have them overflow
# [18:27] <dael> smfr: that's true
# [18:27] <fantasai> s/best/one thing that might be difficult in a functional syntax/
# [18:27] <dael> krit: what do you want to do now?
# [18:27] <dael> krit: You think we should not use box-masking?
# [18:27] <dael> smfr: I'm not hot on the names, but I don't want to hold up the spec
# [18:28] <dael> krit: Now is the right time to change them
# [18:28] <dael> fantasai: I guess box-mask would make more semantic sense
# [18:28] * leaverou smfr++
# [18:28] <dael> krit: Box-masking is better?
# [18:28] <dael> ??: WE may want to us box for something else in the future
# [18:28] <dael> krit: I'd like to...mask-box explains what it's doing
# [18:28] <SimonSapin> s/??/sylvaing
# [18:28] <dael> ...: I don't think we should change it any further.
# [18:28] <fantasai> s/sense/sense but it takes mask off the front of the name/
# [18:29] <dael> ...:I'm fine with switching property names
# [18:29] <dael> dbaron: Did we do any kind of poll from the community on the names?
# [18:29] <dbaron> s/dbaron/??/
# [18:29] <dael> ...: Give it a week to see if we can get better ideas?
# [18:29] <astearns> s/dbaron/rossen_/
# [18:29] <dael> ???: WE'd get an answer, but not a rep. sample
# [18:29] <dael> krit: We can go to next issue
# [18:29] <glazou> s/???/sylvaing
# [18:30] <dael> ...: This is reference to boxes, the mask prop. have the usual...content-box, border-box to use for sizing
# [18:30] <dael> ...: I added a new prop called ??-box
# [18:30] <krit> http://dev.w3.org/fxtf/css-masking-1/#the-mask-origin
# [18:30] <fantasai> s/prop/value/
# [18:30] <fantasai> s/??-box/bounding-box/
# [18:30] <dael> ...:It's basically a combination of border boxes to create a new element
# [18:31] <dael> rossen_: That includes all the inside elements?
# [18:31] <dael> ...: So all the abspos items are included?
# [18:31] <dael> krit: yes
# [18:31] <dael> fantasai: I have one concern about fragmentations
# [18:31] <dael> ...: and how this is handled
# [18:31] <krit> http://dev.w3.org/fxtf/css-masking-1/#propdef-mask-image
# [18:31] <dael> fantasai: Like if you pagenate
# [18:31] <fantasai> s/pagenate/paginate/
# [18:31] <krit> fegamentation is specified for mask-image
# [18:31] <dael> rossen_: This shouldn't effect pagination b/c all boxes will have ind. flows.
# [18:32] <dael> ...: One giant box wouldn't effect frag.
# [18:32] <dael> fantasai: Other values of original will result in a box broken acorss pages and reassembled
# [18:32] <dael> ...: but in a boundry-box case you'd draw a box around all frag.
# [18:32] <dael> rossen_: Shouldn't be diff. then the discussion about background images
# [18:33] <dael> ...: and how you center on boxes frag across non-homogenious
# [18:33] <dael> fantasai: and in that case we decide not to do this
# [18:33] <dael> fantasai: This is diff.
# [18:33] <dael> ...: imagine multi-column elemnt.
# [18:33] <glazou> Zakim, mute me
# [18:33] <Zakim> glazou should now be muted
# [18:33] <dael> ...: IN first it begins half way, goes in 2nd, ends in 3rd
# [18:33] <glazou> Zakim, unmute me
# [18:33] <Zakim> glazou should no longer be muted
# [18:34] <dael> ...: If you ahve a background and stretch to full box, it'll look like three frag was split, drawn across, and then put back
# [18:34] <dael> ...: bounding box says don't do that, draw a box that cont. all border boxes and then draw mask in that[
# [18:34] <dael> ...: what happens if you get a box same size and shape as multi-column elemnt and it scretches entire box
# [18:34] <dael> krit: I had some thoungts, this is like background image
# [18:35] <dael> ...: If you don't want that you use border box and have the exact same background
# [18:35] <dael> ...: as calculted it would be broken into diff. peices for each column
# [18:35] <dael> fantasai: this switches if you include overflow contect and switches how frag happens
# [18:35] <dael> krit: no
# [18:36] <dael> ??: I think...the way frag will change...the diff between background is that it's calculated on the combined boundry box of all frag
# [18:36] <dael> ...: In this case, the three boxes
# [18:36] <dael> ...: problem is your def of boundry box it'll have to create on final layout, not an approx.
# [18:36] <dael> krit: If you have this content you can use border box and it'll work
# [18:37] <dael> ...: What i want to say is it'll mask overflowing content.
# [18:37] <dael> ...: It'll give you some fragments
# [18:37] <dael> ??: Is it enough to say the end result in frag when you apply mask it's approx. same as in cont. box where all content inc. overflow is masked
# [18:37] <dael> krit: yes.
# [18:37] <dael> ??: So then the problem fantasai pointed out shouldn't be a problem
# [18:38] <dael> krit: it makes it look odd if you pick boundry box and has overflow.
# [18:38] * plh has to drop
# [18:38] <dael> ...: however if you use border-box it wouldn't be a problem
# [18:38] <Zakim> -Plh
# [18:38] <dael> ...: IF you want to mask and have overflow
# [18:38] <plinss> s/??/rossen_/
# [18:38] <dael> rossen_:What about transforms?
# [18:38] <dael> krit: Doesn't effect boundry-box
# [18:38] <dael> rossen_: So it's pre-transform
# [18:39] <fantasai> s/boundry/bounding/
# [18:39] <dael> krit: box would sift because you're transforming coordinantes
# [18:39] <dael> kritL you jsut change cood system
# [18:39] <dael> rossen_: I don't buy it.
# [18:39] <dael> ...: If I have one box inside a box and outer box has boundry-box
# [18:39] <dael> ...: INner box overflows, no transform
# [18:39] <dauwhe> s/kritL/krit:/
# [18:39] <dael> ...: Your boundry box wll be size of containing box
# [18:40] <dael> ...: so your mask will apply on outside box
# [18:40] <dael> ... So i do a transform on the inner, what's your boundry box
# [18:40] <astearns> s/boundry/bounding/
# [18:40] <dael> krit: I was confirming that his definition is post-or pre and it is post transform. that's how I understand
# [18:40] * sgalineau box-inception: deeper;
# [18:41] <dael> glazou: I'd like to point out def. is delated to how you view the document
# [18:41] <glazou> getBoundingClientRect()
# [18:41] <dael> krit: I'm not sure if it's a correct transformation
# [18:41] <dael> ...: Then it's fine. It's spec correctly
# [18:41] <dael> smfr: That's wierd though, because transform in drawing
# [18:41] <dael> krit: element is transformed.
# [18:41] <dael> ...: WE think the transforms of the contect is transformed
# [18:42] <dael> glazou: I boundry pre or post?
# [18:42] <dael> krit: post
# [18:42] <dael> fantasai: masking applies to element before transform, correct?
# [18:42] <dael> krit: yes and no
# [18:42] <dael> krit: it's for element, not the matter itself
# [18:42] <dael> fantasai: just for content. if the element is transform then mask is with it
# [18:42] <dael> glazou: we should wrap up
# [18:43] <dael> krit: we should discuss on ML. fantasai can you answer qs on ML?
# [18:43] <dael> smfr: I think it would be good to have an ex in spec
# [18:43] <dael> glazou: Is that all the formatting issues?
# [18:43] <dael> krit: all for call
# [18:43] <dael> Topic: CSS Variables
# [18:43] <dael> glazou: I added this because firefox is shipping so we need to consider next steps inc. test suite
# [18:44] <dael> ...: Is any other browser to impl?
# [18:44] <dael> ???: We have some in webkit, but I don't htink anyone is working on it
# [18:44] <dael> glazou: I think old code is disabled in webkit
# [18:44] <astearns> s/???/smfr/
# [18:44] <dbaron> ??: doesn't chrome support it behind a runtime flag?
# [18:44] <glazou> s/??/sylvaing
# [18:45] <dael> glazou: Anyway, even w/o 2 impl we should set next steps
# [18:45] <dael> ...: Any tests we can gather, anything in test repository?
# [18:45] * fantasai would like to point out the spec is still LCWD, maybe it should move to CR?
# [18:45] <dael> ...: Who is willing to help on this?
# [18:45] <dael> glazou: Yes, fantasai.
# [18:45] <dael> glazou: Is it time to move to CR?
# [18:46] <dael> krit: there were comments from cameron?
# [18:46] * Joins: rossen__ (~uid21900@public.cloak)
# [18:46] <dael> tabatkins: I think they were more then editorial
# [18:46] <dael> s/tabatkins/dbaron
# [18:46] <dael> glazou: This spec seems like it could move fast on rec track
# [18:47] <dbaron> dbaron: And I think heycam wrote some tests that can be contributed
# [18:47] <dael> Topic: interpolate() proposal
# [18:47] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Nov/0441.html
# [18:47] <dael> glazou: leaverou?
# [18:47] <dael> leaverou: For example if we had mult elements and wanted to make it different from overlap...
# [18:47] <dael> ...: It's been a while since I proposed.
# [18:48] <dael> ...: I think it would help, why not expose it?
# [18:48] <dael> krit: I think the original proposal was to rename crossfade to interprolate
# [18:48] <dael> leaverou: and to enable for any value, not jsut images
# [18:48] * fantasai would like to discuss css3-background briefly
# [18:48] <dael> ...: that's why name change
# [18:48] * fantasai thinks we should take it to LC
# [18:48] <dael> leaverou: Tab also agreed this would be useful
# [18:48] <dael> krit: wouldn't current function work for everything?
# [18:49] <astearns> why not keep cross-fade() for images, and add a new interpolation()?
# [18:49] <dael> leaverou: you can't calc over colors, but you can interpolate
# [18:49] <dael> ...: it also helps with variables.
# [18:49] <dael> ...: if you have colors, you can't do calc or manual.
# [18:49] <dael> krit: Okay, I misunderstood.
# [18:49] <dael> leaverou: Any other interpolatible value this is good for.
# [18:49] <dael> smfr: in thory I support.
# [18:50] <dael> ...: two questions, would computed return interpolte?
# [18:50] <dael> leaverou: yes
# [18:50] <dael> smfr: Other questions, if we have this functioin, people would use as endpoint.
# [18:50] <dael> ...: that would get comp.
# [18:50] <dael> leaverou: We can do taht for crossfade
# [18:50] <dael> smfr: in theoury yes.
# [18:50] <fantasai> s/comp./complicated, because end up with nested interpolate()/
# [18:50] <dael> leaverou: Crossfade supposed to work like images.
# [18:51] <dael> smfr: corssfade just supports pixel images in webkits
# [18:51] <dael> s/webkits/webkit
# [18:51] <dael> leaverou: You mean?
# [18:51] <dael> leaverou: It's def. in images 4.
# [18:51] <dael> smfr: not impl
# [18:51] <dael> leaverou: eventually the bugs will be fixed
# [18:51] <dael> smfr: yes
# [18:52] <dael> glazou: Take this to ML?
# [18:52] * rossen_ is now known as Rossen_
# [18:52] <dael> fantasai: can we discuss css3 backgrouns?
# [18:52] <dael> glazou: After thsi
# [18:52] <dael> ...: leaverou can you take back to ML?
# [18:52] <dael> leaverou: Yes. I'm a bit worried that it'll stall and browers will impl and too late to change.
# [18:52] <glazou> s/thsi/this
# [18:52] <dael> fantasai: I think you want cross-fade and have more ways to choose between
# [18:53] <dael> leaverou: I'm not sure about cross-fade.
# [18:53] <dael> fantasai: I'm not saying interpolate is bad, but also have cross-fade.
# [18:53] <astearns> +1 to adding interpolate() without replacing cross-fade()
# [18:53] <dael> dbaron: I agree. I think default in interpolate is cross-fade, but there are other types of transition
# [18:53] <sgalineau> astearns++
# [18:53] <astearns> s/dbaron/plinss/
# [18:53] <dael> fantasai: Suppose you say you want to explicitly cross-fade, you can't do that with interpolate
# [18:53] <dael> leaverou: That makes sense.
# [18:54] <dael> glazou: Let's go back to ML
# [18:54] <dael> Topic: CSS 3 Backgrouns
# [18:54] <fantasai> s/cross-fade/cross-fade an interpolable gradient/
# [18:54] <dael> s/backgrouns/backgrounds
# [18:54] <leaverou> s/Backgrouns/Backgrounds/
# [18:54] * astearns thinks that overriding the agenda this way is not good
# [18:54] <dael> fantasai: Backgrounds has a few changes over years, we need another LCWD
# [18:54] <dael> ...: One remaining issues is the animation of background position.
# [18:54] <dael> ...I think Tab gave a good proposal.
# [18:55] <dael> ...: Current is two pairs, keyword and offset. Change to horizontal axis offset and vert. axis offiset
# [18:55] <dael> ...: So it would be offset from org. in resp. demision.
# [18:55] <dael> ...: demensions are important because in the future we may have more then two.
# [18:56] <SimonSapin> (fantasai, did we end up fixing the background-attachment: local stuff?)
# [18:56] <dael> ...: This should solve the problem with having all the positions possible.
# [18:56] <dael> ...: If people are happy with that I'll put it in spec
# [18:56] * fantasai I don't remember! I'll look into it, thanks for the reminder
# [18:56] <dael> glazou: What do people think?
# [18:56] <dael> ??: I think fine.
# [18:56] <dael> glazou: Any obj>
# [18:57] <krit> s/??/krit/
# [18:57] <dael> glazou: Seems accepted
# [18:57] <dael> fantasai: So can we pub LC?
# [18:57] <dael> krit: Did we decide with mask-origin be in the publishing?
# [18:57] <dael> krit: box height works off this
# [18:57] <fantasai> s/mask/background/
# [18:57] <dael> fantasai: THat's changed
# [18:57] <dael> glazou: Any comments on LC?
# [18:58] <dael> RESOLVED: Publish LC on Backgrounds 3
# [18:58] <fantasai> RESOLVED: bg-pos computed value is calc() per dimension
# [18:58] <dbaron> I wouldn't mind seeing the text resulting from the background-position changes...
# [18:58] <Zakim> -[Bloomberg.a]
# [18:58] <dael> glazou: Only 4 min left.
# [18:58] <dael> ...: Can we discuss frag?
# [18:58] <dael> glazou: Not sure.
# [18:59] <dael> fantasai: Depends on how much detail.
# [18:59] <dael> glazou: No time for detail
# [18:59] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Dec/0268.html
# [18:59] <dael> fantasai: We can go over the change to how bg are handled in frag
# [18:59] <dael> ...: we can get cont. behaviour.
# [18:59] <dael> ...: Question is did people look at it?
# [18:59] <dael> Rossen_: If no one has looked deeply, no need to discuss.
# [18:59] <dael> ...: Did get comments from astearns which helped
# [19:00] <dael> fantasai: For sizing bg. Case with problems if fixed ratio and height depended on width
# [19:00] <dael> ...: If width changed it created problems as you go from page to page.
# [19:00] <dael> ...: put in a rule that was size once and don't change frag to frag.
# [19:00] <dael> ...: used size of largest box, other options are last or smallest.
# [19:00] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Dec/0267.html
# [19:01] <dael> ...: Is there reasons to go with somethinig other then widest box?
# [19:01] * dbaron Zakim, who is noisy?
# [19:01] <Zakim> -SteveZ
# [19:01] * Zakim dbaron, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: SteveZ (25%), abinader (9%)
# [19:01] <dael> Rossen_: Current prop. is the widest box which is laike saying using boundry box.
# [19:01] <dael> fantasai: Sort of
# [19:01] <dael> Rossen_: Had some initial acceptence on ML
# [19:01] <leaverou> s/boundry/bounding/
# [19:02] <dael> ??: ONly thing I can think of is with a sit. with adding and removing it might be better to use fuirst box so you don't have frag change.
# [19:02] <dael> Rossen_: I think any approx. won't be perfect.
# [19:02] <glazou> s/??/stearns
# [19:02] <dael> ...: Trying to optimize avg case.
# [19:02] <dael> ...: Avg case is when they are the same.
# [19:02] <dael> ...: When frag vary we want to have a someone good choice
# [19:03] <dael> krit: can an img be frag
# [19:03] <dael> fantasai: yes
# [19:03] <dael> krit: if you're doing frag image do we want largest?
# [19:03] <dael> Rossen_: We're talking bg.
# [19:03] <dael> ....: With bg it has mult frag and you have to choose a start
# [19:03] <dael> ...: Worst case is with frag and center and you need special juju to make it work.
# [19:04] <dael> ...: If you want a perfect experience.
# [19:04] <dael> ...: That's what we're discussion.
# [19:04] <dael> krit: sending examples would be good.
# [19:04] <dael> Rossen_: We can craft something.
# [19:04] <dael> fantasai: Imp. to note the width is changing, it's jsut the height we're fixing.
# [19:05] <dael> ...: If you have a sq image and you repeat, it'll get wider and narrow, but not taller and shorter.
# [19:05] <dael> plinss: WOuldn't you be messing with aspect ratio?
# [19:05] <dael> fantasai: Yes
# [19:05] <dael> glazou: I guess we have to take this off call
# [19:05] <dael> Rossen_: It's on the list, so please comment there.
# [19:05] <dael> fantasai: Link is up on chat
# [19:06] <dael> glazou: Thanks everyone. THis is our last call in 2013
# [19:06] <Zakim> -David_Baron
# [19:06] <dael> ...: Talk to you in January!
# [19:06] <Zakim> -[Bloomberg]
# [19:06] <Zakim> -[Koblenz]
# [19:06] <Zakim> -sgalineau
# [19:06] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
# [19:06] <jerenkrantz> Happy Holidays!
# [19:06] <Zakim> -dauwhe
# [19:06] <Zakim> -Stearns
# [19:06] <Zakim> -smfr
# [19:06] <Zakim> -SimonSapin
# [19:06] <Zakim> -cabanier
# [19:06] <Zakim> -glazou
# [19:06] <Zakim> -krit
# [19:06] <Zakim> -fantasai
# [19:06] <Zakim> -??P80
# [19:06] <Zakim> -abinader
# [19:06] <Zakim> -Lea
# [19:06] <Zakim> -plinss
# [19:06] * Parts: smfr (~smfr@public.cloak) (smfr)
# [19:06] <Zakim> -dael
# [19:06] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
# [19:06] <Zakim> Attendees were glazou, dael, abinader, krit, +2aaaa, jerenkrantz, cabanier, sgalineau, plinss, Stearns, dauwhe, [Bloomberg], rhauck, SimonSapin, fantasai, Plh, smfr, David_Baron,
# [19:06] <Zakim> ... [Microsoft], SteveZ, Lea
# [19:06] * Quits: jerenkrantz (~jerenkrantz@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
# [19:06] * Quits: rhauck (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
# [19:07] * Quits: dael (~dael@public.cloak) ("")
# [19:07] * Quits: sgalineau (~sgalineau@public.cloak) ("Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com")
# [19:08] * Quits: MaRakow (~MaRakow@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
# [19:09] * Quits: glazou (~glazou@public.cloak) (glazou)
# [19:11] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: do we need to get http://encoding.spec.whatwg.org/ in http://dev.w3.org/csswg/biblio.ref in order to get Bikeshed to add it to http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-syntax/#normative ?
# [19:13] * Joins: rhauck (~Adium@public.cloak)
# [19:34] <dbaron> plinss, any chance you could make shepherd recognize css-variables-1 in addition to css-variables ?
# [19:34] <dbaron> plinss, that should cause a lot more variables tests to show up.
# [19:34] <plinss> dbaron, do you mean css-variables in addition to css-variables-1?
# [19:34] <dbaron> plinss, nope
# [19:34] <dbaron> plinss, the one test that shows up links to css-variables
# [19:35] <dbaron> plinss, I just landed 167 more that link to css-variables-1
# [19:35] <plinss> ah, I see the TR URL is still set to css-variables, fixing now
# [19:35] <dbaron> plinss, should I change the test that links to css-variables to link to css-variables-1 ?
# [19:35] <plinss> yes
# [19:36] <dbaron> plinss, let me know when your fix is done, and then I'll land
# [19:36] <plinss> dbaron, done
# [19:37] <dbaron> plinss, k, thanks (I landed too)
# [19:38] <plinss> thanks for all the tests!
# [19:38] <dbaron> plinss, thank heycam
# [19:38] <dbaron> plinss, btw, is there a way to rescan the tests to reset the "Needs work" flag?
# [19:38] <dbaron> plinss, they now appear to be linked to the spec, but they're still all "Needs work" for failing to link to a tracked spec section
# [19:39] <plinss> yeah, when I change the spec URL, it updates the linkages, but doesn't re-evaluate the errors...
# [19:40] <plinss> that's something that'll change at some point
# [19:40] <shepazu> fantasai, I changed the poll, hope the new one works better for you
# [19:40] <dbaron> contributors/mozilla/submitted/mozilla-central-reftests/variables/* are the tests in question
# [19:41] <plinss> the only way to force a re-scan is to modify the tests, or I can do some fudging in the DB
# [19:41] <dbaron> plinss, probably easier to just do a fake commit, then
# [19:41] <plinss> ok
# [19:44] <dbaron> ok, done
# [19:47] <plinss> dbaron, cool. I'll set up a variables test suite in the daily build so we can add the annotations to the draft
# [20:10] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: No, you can add it to a local biblio. Also: I need to switch Bikeshed to using specref, where we can PR pretty easily.
# [20:18] * Joins: sgalineau (~sgalineau@public.cloak)
# [20:20] * Quits: AR (~AR@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
# [20:25] * leaverou is now known as leaverou_away
# [20:29] * leaverou_away is now known as leaverou
# [20:29] * Quits: lmcliste_ (~lmclister@public.cloak) ("")
# [20:31] * leaverou is now known as leaverou_away
# [20:33] * Quits: sgalineau (~sgalineau@public.cloak) ("Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com")
# [20:35] * Joins: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak)
# [20:44] * Joins: lmcliste_ (~lmclister@public.cloak)
# [20:47] * Quits: nvdbleek (~nvdbleek@public.cloak) (nvdbleek)
# [21:01] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
# [21:01] * Parts: Zakim (zakim@public.cloak) (Zakim)
# [21:21] * Parts: oyvind (~oyvinds@public.cloak) (oyvind)
# [22:00] * Quits: antonp (~Thunderbird@public.cloak) (antonp)
# [22:08] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
# [22:22] <dbaron> ok, made a good bit of progress reducing http://test.csswg.org/shepherd/search/owner/dbaron/status/issue/ today
# [22:34] * Quits: rhauck (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
# [22:39] * Joins: rhauck (~Adium@public.cloak)
# [22:40] * Joins: jet (~junglecode@public.cloak)
# [23:04] * Joins: jcraig (~jcraig@public.cloak)
# [23:36] * Quits: rhauck (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
# [23:38] * Joins: rhauck (~Adium@public.cloak)
# Session Close: Thu Dec 19 00:00:00 2013

The end :)