/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2014-01-08 / end

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  109. # [17:20] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
  110. # [17:20] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 36 minutes
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  112. # [17:20] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/01/08-css-irc
  113. # [17:20] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
  114. # [17:20] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
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  118. # [17:24] * glazou changes topic to 'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Jan/0067.html'
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  125. # [17:39] <SimonSapin> glazou: is there some approval for publishing CR?
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  128. # [17:39] <SimonSapin> in addition to the WG’s
  129. # [17:40] * Joins: ChrisL (clilley@public.cloak)
  130. # [17:41] <glazou> yes
  131. # [17:41] <glazou> there is a transition call with the Director
  132. # [17:41] <glazou> co-chairs + plh + Director's deputy
  133. # [17:41] <glazou> + Bert
  134. # [17:41] * Zakim wonders where Bert is
  135. # [17:41] <glazou> hi ChrisL
  136. # [17:42] <ChrisL> hi glazou, happy new year
  137. # [17:42] <glazou> you too ChrisL !
  138. # [17:42] <glazou> SimonSapin, see an example of a transition request at https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2013JulSep/0040.html
  139. # [17:44] <ChrisL> also look here http://services.w3.org/xslt?xmlfile=http://www.w3.org/2005/08/01-transitions.html&xslfile=http://www.w3.org/2005/08/transitions.xsl
  140. # [17:44] <ChrisL> and set the drop down to the appropriate stage
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  142. # [17:45] <SimonSapin> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/biblio.ref points to old drafts :( eg. CSS3CASCADE
  143. # [17:45] <ChrisL> its in a version control system, feel free to edit it
  144. # [17:45] * Quits: teoli (~teoli@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  145. # [17:45] <SimonSapin> I will, but this really should be automatic
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  147. # [17:46] <ChrisL> someone should rally implement that
  148. # [17:46] <ChrisL> s/rally/really
  149. # [17:46] <ChrisL> action: someone to do good stuff
  150. # [17:46] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
  151. # [17:46] * RRSAgent records action 1
  152. # [17:46] <trackbot> Error finding 'someone'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/users>.
  153. # [17:46] <SimonSapin> I guess that’s Bikeshed bug #86 https://github.com/tabatkins/bikeshed/issues/86
  154. # [17:47] * ChrisL glazou while we wait is there a users forum or bug tracker for blue griffon?
  155. # [17:48] <glazou> yes
  156. # [17:48] <glazou> bugzilla.bluegriffon.org
  157. # [17:48] <ChrisL> ty
  158. # [17:48] <glazou> and a forum here : http://groups.google.com/group/bluegriffon
  159. # [17:49] * Joins: dael (~dael@public.cloak)
  160. # [17:49] * ChrisL are "i wish it did things differently" questions on topic?
  161. # [17:50] <glazou> absolutely :-)
  162. # [17:51] * ChrisL wishes paste without formatting could be made the default
  163. # [17:51] * ChrisL wishes utf-8 could be set as dec=fault encoding
  164. # [17:51] <dael> +1 for paste!
  165. # [17:51] * ChrisL wishes it never ever generated -MSO gobbledegook when editing tables
  166. # [17:52] * ChrisL finds scrolling very very slow as soon as there are large tables
  167. # [17:52] * glazou sends a wet trout to ChrisL
  168. # [17:52] <glazou> :)
  169. # [17:52] * ChrisL shuts up for a bit
  170. # [17:52] <glazou> we're about to start here anyway
  171. # [17:52] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
  172. # [17:52] <Zakim> +dael
  173. # [17:53] <Zakim> +??P15
  174. # [17:53] <glazou> Zakim, ..P15 is me
  175. # [17:53] <Zakim> sorry, glazou, I do not recognize a party named '..P15'
  176. # [17:53] <glazou> Zakim, ??P15 is me
  177. # [17:53] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
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  181. # [17:54] <dael> scribenick: dael
  182. # [17:54] <Zakim> +krit
  183. # [17:54] <Zakim> +ChrisL
  184. # [17:55] <Zakim> +dauwhe
  185. # [17:55] <Zakim> +??P25
  186. # [17:55] <leif> Zakim, ??P25 is me
  187. # [17:55] <Zakim> +leif; got it
  188. # [17:56] <Zakim> +[Bloomberg]
  189. # [17:56] <jerenkrantz> Zakim, Bloomberg has me
  190. # [17:56] <Zakim> +jerenkrantz; got it
  191. # [17:56] <Zakim> +Stearns
  192. # [17:56] <Zakim> +[Bloomberg.a]
  193. # [17:57] * Joins: smfr (~smfr@public.cloak)
  194. # [17:57] <Zakim> + +37684aaaa
  195. # [17:57] <Zakim> +??P38
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  197. # [17:57] <antonp> Zakim, aaaa is me
  198. # [17:57] <Zakim> +antonp; got it
  199. # [17:57] <SimonSapin> Zakim, ??P38 is me
  200. # [17:57] <Zakim> +SimonSapin; got it
  201. # [17:57] <Zakim> +fantasai
  202. # [17:57] <Zakim> +Bert
  203. # [17:58] * plh zakim, call plh-mobile
  204. # [17:58] * Zakim ok, plh; the call is being made
  205. # [17:58] <Zakim> +Plh
  206. # [17:58] <Zakim> +smfr
  207. # [17:58] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
  208. # [17:58] <glazou> Zakim, [IPcaller] has florian
  209. # [17:58] <Zakim> +florian; got it
  210. # [17:58] <florian> Zakim, [IPcaller has me]
  211. # [17:58] <Zakim> +me]; got it
  212. # [17:58] * Joins: arybka (~arybka@public.cloak)
  213. # [17:59] <glazou> Zakim, who is noisy?
  214. # [17:59] <Zakim> glazou, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: [IPcaller] (1%), [Bloomberg.a] (9%)
  215. # [17:59] <glazou> Zakim, [Bloomberg.a] has arybka
  216. # [17:59] <Zakim> +arybka; got it
  217. # [17:59] <Zakim> +??P9
  218. # [17:59] <glazou> Zakim, ??P9 is rossen
  219. # [17:59] <Zakim> +rossen; got it
  220. # [18:00] <Zakim> +glenn
  221. # [18:00] <dael> glazou: Extra items?
  222. # [18:00] <dael> Topic: Seattle F2F and TTWF
  223. # [18:00] <dael> glazou: Is sylvaing here?
  224. # [18:01] <dael> glazou: So sylvaing sent a message about updating wiki w/ flight and diet
  225. # [18:01] * Joins: JohnJansen (~JohnJansen@public.cloak)
  226. # [18:01] <dael> ...: He also says we'll have own name and password
  227. # [18:01] <dael> ...: Please update wiki asap
  228. # [18:01] <dael> ???: I don't have anything. Sunday before we have TTWF
  229. # [18:01] <dael> ...: I encourage everyone to sign up
  230. # [18:01] <ChrisL> http://wiki.csswg.org/planning/seattle-2014#participants
  231. # [18:01] <glazou> s/???/stearns
  232. # [18:01] <dael> ...: If you can't make it, send in test you need written so we have tasks
  233. # [18:02] <dael> glazou: We also need to fill wiki with adjenda
  234. # [18:02] <dael> ...: F2F is soon, so we need proposals
  235. # [18:02] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak)
  236. # [18:02] <dael> ...: plinss will review ASAP, but he's in London
  237. # [18:02] <Zakim> +SGalineau
  238. # [18:02] <Zakim> -SGalineau
  239. # [18:02] <dael> ...: Anything else?
  240. # [18:02] <Zakim> +dbaron
  241. # [18:03] <dael> glazou: is sylvaing there?
  242. # [18:03] <Zakim> +SGalineau
  243. # [18:03] <dael> glazou: sylvaing, hello!
  244. # [18:03] <dael> ...: We were about to clsoe Seattle F@F. Anything becides e-mail?
  245. # [18:03] <TabAtkins> Woo, coming!
  246. # [18:03] * TabAtkins to the call.
  247. # [18:03] <dael> sylvaing: No. One new piece is a meetup WEdnesday night with local community
  248. # [18:04] * plh apologizes in advance for leaving the f2f early
  249. # [18:04] <dael> ...: If there's any comments on that, let us know.
  250. # [18:04] <dael> glazou: Okay. WE may be leaving Wed night.
  251. # [18:04] <dael> astearns: THere's not easy time. WE can check if Monday works.
  252. # [18:04] <dael> glazou: Lets move on
  253. # [18:04] <dael> Topic: Charter
  254. # [18:04] <astearns> s/astearns/sylvaing/
  255. # [18:04] <dael> glazou: We need an update on the charter extension
  256. # [18:04] <dael> plh: I was contacted recently.
  257. # [18:05] <Zakim> + +1.281.305.aabb
  258. # [18:05] <dael> ...: It's going to review inside W3C and we'll have feedback by F2F
  259. # [18:05] <Zakim> -rossen
  260. # [18:05] * Joins: sgalineau (~sgalineau@public.cloak)
  261. # [18:05] * TabAtkins zakim, aabb is me
  262. # [18:05] * Zakim +TabAtkins; got it
  263. # [18:05] <dael> ...: If not feedback, we can continue with dicussion within the group.
  264. # [18:05] <dael> ...: Hopefully we should be able to send for final review week after F2F or during it
  265. # [18:06] <dael> ...: I do know that a draft hasn't done anything, but I do expect some feedback. I think it's as good as we can.
  266. # [18:06] <dael> glazou: There's an arguement. WE're expecting progress on super group front.
  267. # [18:06] <dael> ...: THat will allow us to make a different charter in 6 months.
  268. # [18:06] <dael> plh: Right now end is Feb 2015
  269. # [18:06] * Joins: teoli (~teoli@public.cloak)
  270. # [18:06] <dael> ...: So 12 months.
  271. # [18:06] * Quits: teoli (~teoli@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  272. # [18:06] <dael> ...: I guess that's fine.
  273. # [18:06] <dael> ...: That makes sense.
  274. # [18:06] <ChrisL> That is fine, we can always recharter before it expires
  275. # [18:07] <dael> glazou: That will let us with web consortioum discuss super group
  276. # [18:07] <dael> plh: That's where we are
  277. # [18:07] <Zakim> +??P31
  278. # [18:07] <dael> glazou: Questions, comments?
  279. # [18:07] <dael> Topic: CSS Fragmentation
  280. # [18:07] <glazou> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2014JanMar/0009.html
  281. # [18:07] * leaverou_away is now known as leaverou
  282. # [18:07] <dael> glazou: WE have request from krit
  283. # [18:07] <dael> krit: I create an ex with bordor radius
  284. # [18:07] * leaverou sorry to be late, thought there wasn't a call today!
  285. # [18:08] <dael> ...: Frag means I had multi column with an element across mulit.
  286. # [18:08] <dael> ...: Question is how do we define diff frag.
  287. # [18:08] <Zakim> +Lea
  288. # [18:08] <dael> ...: Spec isn't clear if it's one box split into different parts or drawn between columns
  289. # [18:08] <dael> ...: I think it's essential for many parts to define.
  290. # [18:08] <dael> ...: DO we create diffenet boxes on frag?
  291. # [18:08] <dael> rossen: Yes.
  292. # [18:09] <dael> ...: I've been reading your comments and we can consider that every frag is a box and has its own model.
  293. # [18:09] <dael> ...: The way border is controlled on break is done by using the border box decoration prop
  294. # [18:09] <dael> ...: That gives you ability to have or donn't have padding on break
  295. # [18:09] <dael> ...: So, to further elaborate, as to if that is one box in on frag, I think that's not correct
  296. # [18:09] * glazou find rossen's car turn signals disruptive :-)
  297. # [18:10] <dael> ...: Correct is this is collection of boxes. Frag flow is the collection, not multi fragments.
  298. # [18:10] <dael> krit: To be clear, I'd like a resolution to document
  299. # [18:10] <dael> rossen What type of resoultuon? One to have us edit spec is fine.
  300. # [18:10] * fantasai is confused
  301. # [18:10] <dael> krit: I just want res that each fragment creates own box.
  302. # [18:11] <Zakim> +SteveZ
  303. # [18:11] <dael> rossen: Yes.
  304. # [18:11] <dael> fantasai: The entire point of fragment is to distinguish from box.
  305. # [18:11] <dael> krit: That's fine as long as spec that each frag has own piece.
  306. # [18:11] <dael> dbaron: There's a bunch of existing specs that assume one or the other. MOstly assume each frag is own box
  307. # [18:12] <dael> ...: I'm fine either way, but resolution needs to say it's not changing existing specs and they might disagree.
  308. # [18:12] <dael> rossen: I'm with you.
  309. # [18:12] <Zakim> +??P73
  310. # [18:12] <leif> Zakim, I am ??P73
  311. # [18:12] <Zakim> +leif; got it
  312. # [18:12] <dael> ...: I think that first it being closer to CSS 2.1 for line boxes and the fact they are boxes is that right way to go
  313. # [18:12] * Quits: teoli_ (~teoli@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  314. # [18:12] <dael> roseen: So should we have resolution.
  315. # [18:12] <antonp> s/line boxes/inline boxes/
  316. # [18:12] <dael> fantasai: I think that's dependant on us for frag.
  317. # [18:12] <dael> krit: I think it's every spec.
  318. # [18:13] <dael> Rossen: WE can see what references and see if there are differences.
  319. # [18:13] <dael> ...: I can't think of anything but multi column, box, and page that talk about this.
  320. # [18:13] <dael> ...: For those I think they're only talking boxes.
  321. # [18:13] <dael> ???: WE also have box generation where they don't have size or position
  322. # [18:13] <glazou> s/???/SimonSapin
  323. # [18:13] <dael> fantasai: What do we call it. Full name is box fragment.
  324. # [18:14] <dael> ...: The CSS 2.1 calls them both box
  325. # [18:14] <dael> ...: THe content is a box, it gets split, and it's both box.
  326. # [18:14] <dael> ...: So we need to call them box, but be able to distinguish
  327. # [18:14] <dael> rossen: This is why we used frag. to distinguish. Is that the confusing part?
  328. # [18:14] <dael> fantasai: We also mix us element and box on generation side
  329. # [18:15] <dael> krit: If fragment is how it differs? When a frag has its own padding isn't defined.
  330. # [18:15] <dael> fantasai: Maybe box fragmenet and box element and they can go by all those names?
  331. # [18:15] <dael> SimonSapin: I think it is defined
  332. # [18:15] * glazou hears blanks
  333. # [18:15] <dael> rossen: That's what I was saying a few minutes ago
  334. # [18:15] <fantasai> We can call them both boxes, or we can call the fragments / elements
  335. # [18:15] <fantasai> s/the/them/
  336. # [18:15] <Zakim> -glazou
  337. # [18:15] <SimonSapin> s/defined/defined by the box-decoration-break property/
  338. # [18:16] <Zakim> +??P15
  339. # [18:16] * ChrisL someone is firing blanks
  340. # [18:16] <glazou> Zakim, ??P15 is me
  341. # [18:16] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
  342. # [18:16] <dael> krit: It's not clear which box you mean
  343. # [18:16] <dael> rossen: WE mean fragmenet box, but we can be clear
  344. # [18:16] * glazou grrr same issue
  345. # [18:16] <dael> fantasai: In frag spec we use frag when we mean it and box when we mean box for the most part
  346. # [18:16] <dael> glazou: What is the action for the near term?
  347. # [18:16] <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
  348. # [18:17] * Parts: smfr (~smfr@public.cloak) (smfr)
  349. # [18:17] <dael> fantasai: We need a set of terms to agree first. I propose box-element and box-fragmenent
  350. # [18:17] * Joins: smfr (~smfr@public.cloak)
  351. # [18:17] <dael> dbaron: I don't like box-element
  352. # [18:17] <antonp> me neither
  353. # [18:17] <glazou> let's rename this at CR anyway
  354. # [18:17] <dael> fantasai: Problem is we have a lot that use box and use term element. We need a term for box-element things that can be shortened to box or element.
  355. # [18:17] <dael> dbaron: I think that if it's element and isn't an element in the dom it's wrong
  356. # [18:18] <dael> rossen: can we have element-box and frag-box instead?
  357. # [18:18] <dael> krit: I like element-box
  358. # [18:18] <dbaron> s/(above)/I think specs that use the term "element" to refer to something other than an element in the DOM are wrong and should be fixed./
  359. # [18:18] <dael> SimonSapin: I'm fine with box-frag.
  360. # [18:18] <astearns> +1 to dbaron - should not propagate the problem of conflating boxes with elements
  361. # [18:18] * leaverou notes that not every fragmented box is an element, it could be a pseudo-element
  362. # [18:18] <SimonSapin> s/SimonSapin:/???:/
  363. # [18:18] <ChrisL> I like frag-box. Anything with 'element' in there implies its in the DOM as a node
  364. # [18:18] <dael> rossen: we can easily clarify in box decoration
  365. # [18:18] <dael> krit that's what I said.
  366. # [18:18] * glazou gives leaverou a 1000 trouble-making award on that one :-)
  367. # [18:18] <leaverou> agree with ChrisL
  368. # [18:18] <dael> fantasai: fragmenet means the element and it's consistant on that
  369. # [18:19] <dael> rossen I think what krit was saying is he's confused about fragmenet boxes
  370. # [18:19] <dael> fantasai: We were going now,, fragmenets are not peices of the block.
  371. # [18:19] <dael> rossen: That' wasn't my intention. The way we impl is the opposite
  372. # [18:19] * sgalineau thought fragments were box fragments i.e. elements generates boxes which can then be fragmented.
  373. # [18:19] <fantasai> s/fragmenet means the element/box is the generated abstract thing, and fragment is the piece of it/
  374. # [18:19] <dael> ...: There could have been mis communication, but I've always thought of them as boes.
  375. # [18:19] <fantasai> sgalineau, that's exactly right
  376. # [18:20] <dael> krit: There's a difference. Webkit is one box.
  377. # [18:20] <dael> ...: IE and Firefox does diff boxes.
  378. # [18:20] <dael> rossen: Becuase we impl frag.
  379. # [18:20] * TabAtkins true fact
  380. # [18:20] <dael> fantasai: Firefox has frames into a chain which rep box and each frame is a fragment
  381. # [18:20] <sgalineau> fantasai: so they're box fragments. but the terminology does not answer whether border/padding/margins get duplicated on fragments or not
  382. # [18:20] * Joins: eliezerb (~Eliezer@public.cloak)
  383. # [18:20] <dael> krit: So in this case you're saying the frag is right?
  384. # [18:21] <dael> glazou: We need to move one. Can we con't on ML?
  385. # [18:21] <SimonSapin> sgalineau, that’s box-decoration-break
  386. # [18:21] <dael> rossen: Yes
  387. # [18:21] <leaverou> sgalineau: Isn't that what box-decoration-break is about?
  388. # [18:21] <dael> glazou: I think that's better.
  389. # [18:21] * sgalineau leaverou, simonsapin: well, that sounds like fragment decoration :)
  390. # [18:21] <dael> glazou: We see the problem and we should have margins etc on the fragement, but how to say it tin the spec is undefined
  391. # [18:21] <dael> Topic: Shapes LC
  392. # [18:21] * sgalineau predicts f2f bikeshedding
  393. # [18:21] <glazou> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2014JanMar/0014.html
  394. # [18:21] * leaverou sgalineau yeah, the name is not great
  395. # [18:21] <SimonSapin> sgalineau, haa, naming :)
  396. # [18:21] * fantasai would like to touch on fragmentation again, briefly, wrt publication
  397. # [18:21] <glazou> fantasai, ok
  398. # [18:22] <astearns> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-shapes/issues-lc-20131203.html
  399. # [18:22] <dael> astearns: WE're at the end of the comment period
  400. # [18:22] * Joins: MaRakow (~MaRakow@public.cloak)
  401. # [18:22] <Zakim> -leif.a
  402. # [18:22] <dael> ...: I've gone through all and created a disposition.
  403. # [18:22] <ChrisL> pointer to dispo of comments?
  404. # [18:22] <dael> ...: got comments from divpub and posted to www-style.
  405. # [18:22] <dael> ...: Nothing formal from SVG, but got from TabAtkins and krit
  406. # [18:22] <dbaron> s/divpub/digipub/
  407. # [18:22] <astearns> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-shapes/#20131203
  408. # [18:22] <dael> ...: There were some explinations and clarifications.
  409. # [18:23] <dael> SimonSapin: SVG was also TabAtkins and he said we didn't have shape from before.
  410. # [18:23] <dael> astearns: He said that before LC so it's not LC
  411. # [18:23] <dael> ChrisL: Did he agree?
  412. # [18:23] <SimonSapin> s/SimonSapin:/???:/
  413. # [18:23] <fantasai> s/divpub/digipub/
  414. # [18:23] <dael> astearns: I gave him rational, but I don't remember what he said.
  415. # [18:23] <TabAtkins> s/TabAtkins/Tavmjong/
  416. # [18:24] * ChrisL was that Tab (Atkins) or Tav(mjong)?
  417. # [18:24] <dael> astearns: Some sub changes. I added serialization and I changed outside from auto-none and I assume we need 2nd LC
  418. # [18:24] * ChrisL ty
  419. # [18:24] <dael> ...: I want to wait until serialization of background is decided.
  420. # [18:24] <dael> ...: Background position changed and I had to adapt
  421. # [18:24] <dael> ...: I wanted to make sure they're serializing in the same way.
  422. # [18:24] <dael> ChrisL: I want to make sure tav's comment is addressed.
  423. # [18:25] <dael> ...: They did in good faith impl something we did and then we backed away
  424. # [18:25] <dael> ...: They need to put text in shapes and they're trying to do what CSS is doing.
  425. # [18:25] <dael> ...: They need to have something they can use.
  426. # [18:25] <dael> ...: Even though it was raised before LC, I'd encourage you to ensure he's okay.
  427. # [18:25] <dael> astearns: I'll get back to him on that issue.
  428. # [18:26] <Zakim> -??P31
  429. # [18:26] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  430. # [18:26] <Zakim> +??P11
  431. # [18:26] * Joins: rossen____ (~uid21900@public.cloak)
  432. # [18:26] <dael> ...: My position from last time is, just because shape inside isn't in lvl 1 doesn't mean we can't go ahead with impl if it's a lvl 2 feature.
  433. # [18:26] <leif> Zakim, I am ??P11
  434. # [18:26] <Zakim> +leif; got it
  435. # [18:26] <rossen____> zakim, microsoft has me
  436. # [18:26] <Zakim> +rossen____; got it
  437. # [18:26] <dael> ...: If it's a lvl 2 feature, they can do it. WE also have it in webkit and blink and it's just postoned on impl side.
  438. # [18:26] <dael> glazou: I have a question on issue 6
  439. # [18:27] <dael> glazou: ?? said does this okay with svg WG.
  440. # [18:27] <dael> astearns: We didn't get an answer.
  441. # [18:27] <dael> astearns: We should get a positive responce, but we do need it.
  442. # [18:27] <dael> ChrisL: One useful way forward is to e-mail them and say we need to know if you have comments or need more time
  443. # [18:27] <dael> astearns: I will do that today
  444. # [18:28] <dael> astearns: That's all I had. I just wanted to update group
  445. # [18:28] <dael> Topic: CSS Syntax CR
  446. # [18:28] <SimonSapin> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Jan/0060.html
  447. # [18:28] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Jan/0060.html
  448. # [18:28] * Quits: florian (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
  449. # [18:28] <dael> SimonSapin: I did not recieve any comments since we discussed.
  450. # [18:28] <dael> ...: I happen to have found something online that I tried to address with mostly editorial clarification
  451. # [18:28] <dael> ...: No normative changes for impl
  452. # [18:28] <dael> ...: This is comments from ITN WG
  453. # [18:29] <astearns> s/?? said does this okay with svg WG/our response asked whether this was OK with i18n/
  454. # [18:29] <dael> ...: So I don't know if I should wait for them or what's the next step
  455. # [18:29] <SimonSapin> s/ITN/I18N/
  456. # [18:29] <dael> glazou: The LC period ended three weeks ago so we're beyond limit
  457. # [18:29] <dael> fantasai: Internationalization did way they might be late.
  458. # [18:29] <dael> SimonSapin: Didn't tell me
  459. # [18:29] <dael> glazou: It's becoming urgent
  460. # [18:30] <dael> fantasai: I would ping Richard ? and ask him if he has comments or need time
  461. # [18:30] <dael> SimonSapin: I did include int. yesterday. Should I ask Richard specifically.
  462. # [18:30] <dael> fantasai: I would do that and give him time to respond. Their cycles are slower.
  463. # [18:30] <dael> ...: You should get responce this week.
  464. # [18:31] <dael> ...: I'm happy to say we can resolve for CR as long as they're happy, but I'd like them to say they're okay.
  465. # [18:31] <dael> SimonSapin: Okay
  466. # [18:31] <dael> SimonSapin: I'm happy to reach out
  467. # [18:31] <dael> glazou: I'm in principal okay with that. One point, setting a deadline and never ever meeting it is pointless.
  468. # [18:31] <Bert> (Richard is on vacation this week.)
  469. # [18:31] <dael> glazou: Four weeks beyond is a lot.
  470. # [18:32] <dael> ...: I'm not saying anyone is guilty, but we have a process. We can extend when people are going to take more time.
  471. # [18:32] * sgalineau sound from glazou is horrible
  472. # [18:32] <dael> ...: And we can be firmer on the limits, or there's no point in a review period.
  473. # [18:32] <ChrisL> they should ask for an extension. And its asking: we can say no
  474. # [18:32] <dael> fantasai: He did say he's busy and would be taking seveal weeks off.
  475. # [18:32] <dael> ...: Also, this isn't urgent to put in CR. No one is waiting for it.
  476. # [18:32] <dael> glazou: I agree. Remember, I said in principal.
  477. # [18:33] * krit sgalineau you didn’t get used to it after so many years?
  478. # [18:33] <dael> SimonSapin: He told you, but he should have told the WG
  479. # [18:33] <dael> fantasai: He should have.
  480. # [18:33] * sgalineau krit, behave...
  481. # [18:33] <dael> glazou: When you contact them, I want you to be firm with them on time.
  482. # [18:33] * TabAtkins Daniel sounds like a monster underwater.
  483. # [18:33] <dbaron> glazou, the change you made just made the sound worse
  484. # [18:33] <SimonSapin> glazou, your audio is completely saturated
  485. # [18:33] * Joins: emalasky (~Adium@public.cloak)
  486. # [18:33] * Quits: emalasky (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
  487. # [18:33] <ChrisL> daniel we can't hear you at all well, lots of distortion
  488. # [18:33] * ChrisL YAY
  489. # [18:33] * krit yes I do :(
  490. # [18:34] <dael> glazou: I said that I want to be sure that SimonSapin is okay with plan to ask for somments and get extension.
  491. # [18:34] <dael> glazou: If you're not ok we'll decide.
  492. # [18:34] <dael> SimonSapin: I'm fine with waiting.
  493. # [18:34] <dael> glazou: Please Ping Richard ASAP
  494. # [18:34] <dael> ...: What I see is only editorial changes, so it's easy to move to CR if WG agrees.
  495. # [18:34] <dael> ...: Shall we defer to next week?
  496. # [18:35] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Dec/0403.htmlhttp://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Dec/0403.html
  497. # [18:35] <dael> SimonSapin: Well, we already resolved.
  498. # [18:35] <dael> glazou: We're waiting for comments.
  499. # [18:35] <dael> fantasai: We have that if internationalization agrees we can resolve.
  500. # [18:35] <dael> glazou: Be we don't have a resolution on these comments.
  501. # [18:35] <dael> SimonSapin: So we'll tlk next week
  502. # [18:35] <dael> glazou: That is better.
  503. # [18:35] * Joins: lmcliste_ (~lmclister@public.cloak)
  504. # [18:36] <dael> ...: If Richard answers no comments then we're fine and we can move one.
  505. # [18:36] <dael> SimonSapin: What is the next step for CR
  506. # [18:36] <dael> glazou: Bert will issue transition request and we'll have a call with a director?
  507. # [18:36] <dael> ChrisL: Did you see the link I posted with the specs for CR
  508. # [18:36] <dael> SimonSapin: My question was more what do I need to do
  509. # [18:37] <dael> ChrisL: As long as your dispoition of comments is in order, you don't need anything else.
  510. # [18:37] <dael> glazou: So you're all set.
  511. # [18:37] <dael> Topic: Fragmentation
  512. # [18:37] * smfr glazou, if you mute we might not get the echo
  513. # [18:37] <dael> fantasai: I wanted to, before we untangle box fragments that would require sig changes, I was wondering about pub and updated WD.
  514. # [18:37] <dael> ...: if people think that's a good idea.
  515. # [18:38] * Joins: florian (~Adium@public.cloak)
  516. # [18:38] <dael> ???: You asked me to review and I posted stuff on the 6ths of Dec.
  517. # [18:38] <glazou> Zakim, mute me
  518. # [18:38] <Zakim> glazou should now be muted
  519. # [18:38] <dael> fantasai: I'm happy to go through those.
  520. # [18:38] <sgalineau> s/???/astearns
  521. # [18:38] <Zakim> +??P76
  522. # [18:38] <dael> ...: I'll try this week and ask for a WD next week.
  523. # [18:38] <dael> ...: I'm also holding us boxes and borders b/c I wanted to pub both together.
  524. # [18:38] <glazou> Zakim, unmute me
  525. # [18:38] <Zakim> glazou should no longer be muted
  526. # [18:38] <fantasai> s/us/up/
  527. # [18:38] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
  528. # [18:39] <glazou> Zakim, mute me
  529. # [18:39] <Zakim> glazou should now be muted
  530. # [18:39] <dael> astearns: on backgrounds and borders I want cerealization defined before we publish.
  531. # [18:39] <dael> fantasai: Is it in OM? It's not in B&B level 3
  532. # [18:39] <TabAtkins> s/cerealization/serialization/
  533. # [18:39] * ChrisL :)
  534. # [18:39] <dael> astearns: You and TabAtkins were taling and said you need to make sure serialization is correct
  535. # [18:39] <glazou> Zakim, unmute me
  536. # [18:39] <Zakim> glazou should no longer be muted
  537. # [18:39] <dael> fantasai: It's somewhat defined but may be confusing
  538. # [18:39] <dael> glazou: Any other items?
  539. # [18:39] <tantek> Zakim, +??P76 is tantek
  540. # [18:39] <Zakim> sorry, tantek, I do not recognize a party named '+??P76'
  541. # [18:39] * leaverou side comment: Generated content on issues prevents people from searching in their browser for "Issue" to find all issues in a document
  542. # [18:40] <tantek> Zakim, ??P76 is tantek
  543. # [18:40] <Zakim> +tantek; got it
  544. # [18:40] <dael> glazou: I guess this is a shorter call
  545. # [18:40] <ChrisL> +1 to the generated content should be actual content please
  546. # [18:40] <glazou> Zakim, mute me
  547. # [18:40] <Zakim> glazou should now be muted
  548. # [18:40] <SimonSapin> leaverou +1
  549. # [18:40] <dael> ??: I wanted to ask about images. I fwe want live images for CSS image
  550. # [18:40] <TabAtkins> sliced-image() function
  551. # [18:40] <glazou> s/???:krit
  552. # [18:40] <glazou> s/???/krit
  553. # [18:40] <dael> ...: Where we have border images and if we can have something liket hat for CSS images
  554. # [18:40] <SimonSapin> leaverou, Bikeshed’s issue index helps, though
  555. # [18:40] <krit> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Jan/0000.html
  556. # [18:40] <dael> ...: I can link the proposal
  557. # [18:41] * TabAtkins leaverou That's why I added the Issues Index. ^_^
  558. # [18:41] <glazou> Zakim, unmute me
  559. # [18:41] <Zakim> glazou should no longer be muted
  560. # [18:41] <leaverou> SimonSapin: ah, good point, I forgot about that
  561. # [18:41] <dael> ...: The intention of the report is that we remove the box propeties that do for masking the same as border image.
  562. # [18:41] <dael> ...: If we use border image to avoid another property.
  563. # [18:41] * tantek wishes everyone in CSSWG a happy new year!
  564. # [18:41] <dael> ...: I want to ask the group if it makes sense to have a sliced image and if I should move forward.
  565. # [18:41] <glazou> you too tantek
  566. # [18:42] * TabAtkins But also, I did consider having Bikeshed generate the words directly.
  567. # [18:42] <dael> fantasai: A sliced image is fine, but anything within the image would be tricky.
  568. # [18:42] <dael> ???: You'd have to do an outset.
  569. # [18:42] <dael> fantasai: I'm not convinced. Maybe 9-slice images it useful for other things, but not for border and masking.
  570. # [18:42] <ChrisL> s/???/ChrisL
  571. # [18:42] <dael> fantasai: b/c those perameters and being about to tie to the border width
  572. # [18:43] <dael> ChrisL: This would move the complicated slicing numbers into imge which would simplify border image
  573. # [18:43] <dael> fantasai: I'm not sure how you mean
  574. # [18:43] <glazou> s/ChrisL/smfr
  575. # [18:43] <dael> smfr: If this is like masking and broder image, I don't thinkt hat's tied to the 9-piece-ness of the image.
  576. # [18:43] <dael> smfr: Are they tied to slice width?
  577. # [18:43] <dael> fantasai: Tied to how we define the outside of the box.
  578. # [18:44] <dael> fantasai: You'd have one big image yous tretch
  579. # [18:44] <dael> smfr: So the assets are seperate from 9
  580. # [18:44] <dael> smfr: I think this would be useful
  581. # [18:44] <dbaron> smfr: the outsets are independent of the 9-sliced-ness of the image
  582. # [18:44] <dael> fantasai: What else would you use it for.
  583. # [18:44] <dbaron> s/assets/outsets/
  584. # [18:44] <dael> smfr: The buttons.
  585. # [18:44] <dael> fantasai: Wouldn't you use border imge for that?
  586. # [18:44] <dael> smfr: I htink masking is a concrete use-case
  587. # [18:45] <dael> krit: For border image I don't think it's a problem, though may not make it easier. It's another way to do it.
  588. # [18:45] <glazou> Zakim, mute me
  589. # [18:45] <Zakim> glazou should now be muted
  590. # [18:45] <dael> fantasai: One reason we split border image is people wanted to take small pieces out.
  591. # [18:45] <dael> ...: This made it easier to change one piece.
  592. # [18:45] <dael> smfr: That's fine.
  593. # [18:46] <dael> fantasai: That doesn't apply to masking, but you wouldn't want to change on have.
  594. # [18:46] <dael> tantek: I think background use case is simplier.
  595. # [18:46] <dael> ...: That way you don't have to use border height to alter. Not a big advantage, but simplier to achieve end result.
  596. # [18:46] * jerenkrantz needs to run - Happy New Year all!
  597. # [18:46] <dael> fantasai: You'd still need same prop.
  598. # [18:46] <Zakim> -[Bloomberg]
  599. # [18:46] * Quits: jerenkrantz (~jerenkrantz@public.cloak) ("")
  600. # [18:46] <dael> tantek: It's less work slightly on metrics pieces, which is the harder piece to get right.
  601. # [18:47] <glazou> Zakim, unmute me
  602. # [18:47] <Zakim> glazou should no longer be muted
  603. # [18:47] <dael> glazou: So, krit, anything else on this?
  604. # [18:47] <glazou> Zakim, mute me
  605. # [18:47] <Zakim> glazou should now be muted
  606. # [18:47] <dael> krit: My intention was to have match box.
  607. # [18:47] <dael> ...: I'd like to emphasis even with proposals I'd still like to have mask-box
  608. # [18:47] <smfr> s/match box/mask box
  609. # [18:47] <dael> fantasai: I think it makes sense.
  610. # [18:48] <dael> krit: So smfr should we proceed with this image prop to replace mask box?
  611. # [18:48] <dael> smfr: I thinkit would be useful to solicit use-cases to see if it would be useful.
  612. # [18:48] <dael> krit: That's independant of mask image
  613. # [18:48] <dael> ...: So do we want mask box or proceed with replacing it with mask image
  614. # [18:49] <dael> smfr: I don't know if I can make that call now
  615. # [18:49] <dael> krit: I'm fine with waiting, but how long?
  616. # [18:49] <dael> smfr: If we do this, it would be images 4, right?
  617. # [18:49] <glazou> Zakim, unmute me
  618. # [18:49] <Zakim> glazou should no longer be muted
  619. # [18:49] <dael> fantasai: We have F2F coming up. This could be on the adjenda to wrap this up.
  620. # [18:49] <dael> smfr: That's resonable.
  621. # [18:49] <dael> krit: Aboslutely.
  622. # [18:49] <Zakim> -dbaron
  623. # [18:49] <dael> glazou: Anything else?
  624. # [18:49] <glazou> Zakim, unmute me
  625. # [18:49] <Zakim> glazou was not muted, glazou
  626. # [18:50] <smfr> whoa
  627. # [18:50] <glazou> not me
  628. # [18:50] * sgalineau whoa that was awesome
  629. # [18:50] * plh zakim, who is on the phone?
  630. # [18:50] * Zakim sees on the phone: dael, krit, ChrisL, dauwhe, leif, Stearns, [Bloomberg.a], antonp, SimonSapin, fantasai, Bert, Plh, smfr, glenn, SGalineau, TabAtkins, Lea, SteveZ, glazou,
  631. # [18:50] <glazou> Zakim, mute me
  632. # [18:50] * TabAtkins OH SHIT THE ACID IS KICKING IN
  633. # [18:50] * Zakim ... [Microsoft], leif.a, tantek
  634. # [18:50] * Zakim [Bloomberg.a] has arybka
  635. # [18:50] * Zakim [Microsoft] has rossen____
  636. # [18:50] <Zakim> glazou should now be muted
  637. # [18:50] * plh zakim, who is making noise?
  638. # [18:50] <glazou> ROFL
  639. # [18:50] * sgalineau it's like the beginning of a Pink Floyd album
  640. # [18:50] * tantek echo echo echo ...
  641. # [18:50] * Zakim plh, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: krit (23%), fantasai (29%), Bert (25%)
  642. # [18:50] <rossen____> :)
  643. # [18:50] <leaverou> ROFL tab
  644. # [18:50] <glazou> Zakim, unmute me
  645. # [18:50] <Zakim> glazou should no longer be muted
  646. # [18:50] <dael> ??: How about June dates?
  647. # [18:50] <dael> glazou: I was away for last 10 days and couldn't ping Samsung.
  648. # [18:50] <dael> ...: I'll do that now and report ASAP.
  649. # [18:51] <TabAtkins> Huge +1 for Korea meeting.
  650. # [18:51] <SimonSapin> s/??/SteveZ/
  651. # [18:51] <dael> stevez: You're away that AC meeting is 8-10?
  652. # [18:51] <dael> glazou: Plan is to have it in Seoul, not Samsung HQ because we'd have netowrk issues.
  653. # [18:51] <dael> glazou: I'll report as soon as I can.
  654. # [18:51] <dael> glazou: I guess that's all for today
  655. # [18:51] <Zakim> -Plh
  656. # [18:51] <Zakim> -SGalineau
  657. # [18:51] <Zakim> -smfr
  658. # [18:51] <dael> glazou: Talk to you next week! Bye!
  659. # [18:51] <Zakim> -antonp
  660. # [18:51] <Zakim> -fantasai
  661. # [18:51] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  662. # [18:51] <Zakim> -Stearns
  663. # [18:51] <Zakim> -dauwhe
  664. # [18:51] <Zakim> -SimonSapin
  665. # [18:51] <Zakim> -ChrisL
  666. # [18:51] <Zakim> -Lea
  667. # [18:51] <Zakim> -glazou
  668. # [18:52] <Zakim> -tantek
  669. # [18:52] <Zakim> -krit
  670. # [18:52] <Zakim> -SteveZ
  671. # [18:52] <Zakim> -dael
  672. # [18:52] <Zakim> -Bert
  673. # [18:52] <Zakim> -leif.a
  674. # [18:52] <Zakim> -TabAtkins
  675. # [18:52] * Quits: glazou (~glazou@public.cloak) (glazou)
  676. # [18:52] <Zakim> -glenn
  677. # [18:52] <Zakim> -[Bloomberg.a]
  678. # [18:52] * Parts: smfr (~smfr@public.cloak) (smfr)
  679. # [18:52] * Quits: MaRakow (~MaRakow@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
  680. # [18:54] * Quits: dael (~dael@public.cloak) ("")
  681. # [18:55] * Quits: florian (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
  682. # [19:00] * Quits: arybka (~arybka@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
  683. # [19:00] <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, leif, in Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
  684. # [19:01] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  685. # [19:01] <Zakim> Attendees were dael, glazou, krit, ChrisL, dauwhe, leif, jerenkrantz, Stearns, [Bloomberg], +37684aaaa, antonp, SimonSapin, fantasai, Bert, Plh, smfr, florian, me], arybka, rossen,
  686. # [19:01] <Zakim> ... glenn, SGalineau, dbaron, +1.281.305.aabb, TabAtkins, Lea, SteveZ, rossen____, tantek
  687. # [19:02] * Parts: leif (~lastorset@public.cloak) (leif)
  688. # [19:29] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek)
  689. # [19:31] * Quits: ChrisL (clilley@public.cloak) ("Client combusted")
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  694. # [21:03] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
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  728. # Session Close: Thu Jan 09 00:00:00 2014

The end :)