/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2014-01-24 / end

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  2. # Session Ident: #css
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  22. # [02:20] <Henke37> how does css interact with the <hr> element in html?
  23. # [02:22] <TabAtkins> <hr> is *slightly* magical, but it's basically a "height: 0; width: auto; display: block; border: 1px 3d gray;" (or something like that for the border) element.
  24. # [02:22] <TabAtkins> The magicalness is probably not necessary.
  25. # [02:23] <Liam> at a guess the default user agent stylesheet gives hr width 100% and border... ah
  26. # [02:23] <TabAtkins> <hr> is width: auto because it's shortened by nearby floats.
  27. # [02:23] <TabAtkins> Oh yeah, so it's also a BFC.
  28. # [02:23] <Liam> oh right
  29. # [02:24] <Henke37> a "bfc"?
  30. # [02:24] <TabAtkins> Block formatting context.
  31. # [02:25] <TabAtkins> Or in less confusing terms, "the thing you do when you want an element to shrink to avoid outside floats and grow to contain internal floats".
  32. # [02:25] <TabAtkins> Setting overflow: anything-but-auto does this, for example.
  33. # [02:27] <Henke37> right
  34. # [02:28] <Henke37> but it would be possible to just restyle it to show an image instead right?
  35. # [02:28] <TabAtkins> Technically, yes.
  36. # [02:28] <TabAtkins> In practice, no, not currently.
  37. # [02:28] <Henke37> aw, but I find the nice images people tend to use instead nice looking
  38. # [02:29] <Liam> wonder if you could use hr:before if you gave it height
  39. # [02:29] <TabAtkins> Henke37: I agree!
  40. # [02:29] <TabAtkins> Liam: Hm, maybe.
  41. # [02:29] <Henke37> css even has the ability to do them fancy image things to make the image adapt to the viewport size
  42. # [02:30] <TabAtkins> Okay, at least in Chrome (and likely WebKit), <hr> isn't magical at all.
  43. # [02:30] <TabAtkins> Just set a height and a background and you're golden.
  44. # [02:30] <Liam> fleurons and tailpieces would indeed make good <hr/> fodder
  45. # [02:31] <Henke37> hmm, can pagination supress an element when it would be at the top or bottom of a page?
  46. # [02:32] <dauwhe> Henke37: Changing content based on page position would be very useful to us.
  47. # [02:32] <dauwhe> see http://w3c.github.io/dpub-pagination/index.html#space-breaks-and-ornaments
  48. # [02:33] <Liam> possibly with scripting
  49. # [02:33] <dauwhe> a11y folks tell us to use hr for these "space breaks" common in fiction.
  50. # [02:33] <Liam> alternate content based on space available is useful in general
  51. # [02:33] <Liam> dauwhe, maybe the trick is to hide the hr element and use the end of section to draw the ornament?
  52. # [02:34] <dauwhe> I really, really want to avoid sectioning for these.
  53. # [02:34] <Liam> ah ok
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  56. # [02:34] <Henke37> the hr element and equvivalents really are important in fiction
  57. # [02:34] <dauwhe> It makes for more complicated markup, and why should a space break ten pages into a chapter suddenly create a section at the start of a chapter?
  58. # [02:35] <dauwhe> Henke37: would love to do hr { content: something other than hr }
  59. # [02:35] <dauwhe> We do this now as Prince is happy with content property for any element.
  60. # [02:36] <Liam> agree, more complicated markup, depends on content as to whether it make sense, it happens to in stuff i'm doing right now :)
  61. # [02:36] <Liam> haven't tried content: for hr in AntennaHouse though
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  63. # [02:39] <Liam> on the other hand i'm probably getting to fight bulleted lists more :)
  64. # [02:39] <dauwhe> We often have complicated ornaments, but usually add them in CSS: div.ornament { font-family: "fancy font"; content: prince-glyph-index(55); }
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  67. # [02:40] <Henke37> hmm, is there a good way for scripting to provide its own layout code that operates nicely with css?
  68. # [02:42] <TabAtkins> Not yet!
  69. # [02:42] <Liam> good - no, there's no such thing as good scripting :-) :-) a; way - yes (e.g. see pdf.js) - operates nicely with css - not that I've seen (and pdf.js is pretty buggy) but to be less flippant search around for javascript polyfills, and remember that many people have scripting turned off, or are using a text reader such as JAWS if they can't see.
  70. # [02:43] <TabAtkins> I have plans for this. Basically I just want to open up every part of CSS to JS-based extension.
  71. # [02:43] <Liam> TabAtkins: "yet" :-)
  72. # [02:43] <Henke37> what does a layout algorithm need anyway?
  73. # [02:43] <TabAtkins> Hooks into the invalidation/painting machinery.
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  75. # [02:44] <SimonSapin> We (Servo) just discussed table layout and percentage heights. This is gonna be fun :)
  76. # [02:44] <SimonSapin> for some values of "fun"
  77. # [02:44] <Henke37> it needs to be able to consume elements from the document (and those named flows), it needs to be able to deal with those pesky floats and it needs to be able to answer the question of "what space is used"?
  78. # [02:45] <Henke37> aside from the obvious point of "position and size elements"
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  89. # [03:02] <Liam> SimonSapin, yeah, complex tables can be... interesting
  90. # [03:03] * Liam used to have some examples from aviation manuals (with tables in the running headers and footers too)
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  145. # [07:38] <krit> SimonSapin: CSSFunValue
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  199. # Session Ident: #css
  200. # [15:53] * Now talking in #css
  201. # [15:53] * Topic is 'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Jan/0294.html'
  202. # [15:53] * Set by glazou on Wed Jan 22 17:43:27
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  264. # [23:49] * Quits: jet (~junglecode@public.cloak) (jet)
  265. # [23:51] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak) ("nn")
  266. # [23:52] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  267. # [23:54] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  268. # [23:57] * Quits: plh (plehegar@public.cloak) ("Leaving")
  269. # Session Close: Sat Jan 25 00:00:02 2014

The end :)