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- # Session Start: Wed Feb 12 00:00:00 2014
- # Session Ident: #css
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- # [01:52] <dauwhe> astearns: pong
- # [01:53] <astearns> is there a requirement for mixing inline and block footnotes?
- # [01:53] <astearns> and does anyone implement float:inline-footnote ?
- # [01:53] <dauwhe> there is interest in mixing them to save space
- # [01:54] <dauwhe> Prince does float: prince-inline-footnote, but AntennaHouse does not
- # [01:54] <astearns> OK - I was thinking that inline/block would be better as a property of the float area
- # [01:54] <astearns> but if people do want to mix them, then that doesn't work
- # [01:54] <astearns> s/float area/footnote area/
- # [01:54] <astearns> (CSS Shapes is infecting my typing)
- # [01:55] <dauwhe> it's an interesting question whether the footnote area should determine most of the footnote properties, or if they should be assigned by float:bar-footnote
- # [01:55] <dauwhe> the former seems simpler for the easy cases, but less extensible
- # [01:56] <astearns> I think it would be hard to make a selector that only matched shorter footnotes to inline
- # [01:56] <astearns> but perhaps that's done with the footnote element's class at authoring time
- # [01:56] <dauwhe> True, but in a lot of cases the author might determine that by other means.
- # [01:58] <astearns> the only other thing I can think of is a property on the footnote area that took block, inline and compact
- # [01:58] <astearns> where compact would put footnotes together if they fit on the same line
- # [01:58] <dauwhe> That might address a lot of people's needs. Things like bibles and older texts often have lots of very short footnotes.
- # [01:59] <astearns> since people do want to mix them, I'll delete the email I was composing that assumed that wasn
- # [01:59] <astearns> 't the case :)
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- # [02:00] <dauwhe> It's certainly worth discussing, and I'm open to pulling the whole inline footnote thing from the current level...
- # [02:00] <dauwhe> ... if it would help with implementations.
- # [02:00] <astearns> ooh, not compact. it would be inline-block :)
- # [02:00] <dauwhe> groan :)
- # [02:00] <dauwhe> What worries me are columns.
- # [02:00] <astearns> it works! they're all blocks, but if the blocks fit side-by-side they'd do that
- # [02:00] <dauwhe> Prince has float: column-footnote and float: inline-column-footnote
- # [02:01] <astearns> that *really* sounds like it should be a property of the footnote area
- # [02:01] <dauwhe> Nobody says what happens if the number of columns changes on the page.
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- # [02:02] <astearns> oh right - that's a footnote area for each column
- # [02:02] <dauwhe> some GCPMs have @footnote { column-span: all } to get the ordinary behaviour of the footnote area taking up the width of the page
- # [02:02] <dauwhe> So you could have one column text, and two-column footnotes, which helps address the issue of short footnotes
- # [02:03] <astearns> I don't understand what should happen if a page has a mix of column-footnotes and regular footnotes
- # [02:03] <dauwhe> Neither do I :)
- # [02:04] <astearns> OK, I'm going to post a suggestion to make the footnote area choose block, inline or inline-block
- # [02:04] <astearns> and just have float:footnote in the draft
- # [02:04] <dauwhe> That sounds eminently reasonable.
- # [02:05] <astearns> and I'm going to pretend I never heard about column-footnote for now :)
- # [02:05] <astearns> it's a good use case, though
- # [02:06] <dauwhe> So I won't mention table footnotes, or the footnotes in higher ed books that fall at the bottom of elements rather than at the bottom of pages? :)
- # [02:07] <astearns> how about a run-in footnote that's displayed at the start of the paragraph it appears in?
- # [02:10] <dauwhe> That's a new one. I've seen them as side floats with runaround.
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- # [02:44] <fantasai> dauwhe table footnotes could be formatted as table-caption
- # [02:44] <fantasai> a bottom-positioned caption is going to be pretty much just like a table caption
- # [02:44] <fantasai> layout-wise
- # [02:44] <fantasai> just have to get the ordering of captions vs. footnotes right
- # [02:45] <fantasai> which I think should be possible...
- # [02:45] <fantasai> I think table captions should be ordered outside-in
- # [02:45] <fantasai> but I'm not sure about that, I guess
- # [02:45] <fantasai> I don't think it's specified!
- # [02:45] <fantasai> top captions are obviously in document order, but are bottom captions in document order or reverse document order?
- # [02:45] * fantasai not sure
- # [03:22] <dauwhe> fantasai: I'll have to think about that. I've spent more of my life worrying about footnotes than about tables.
- # [03:23] <dauwhe> I'm hoping latinreq will have much more detailed information about tables soon. A friend of mine is working on it.
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- # [04:58] <liam_> table footnotes and table caption might both be present, and table footnoets might have to go to the right column of the table, or might span the table
- # [04:58] <liam_> if you use float: footnote, how do you handle multiple levels of footnote?
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- # [17:39] * glazou changes topic to 'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Feb/0431.html'
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- # [17:39] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
- # [17:39] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 17 minutes
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- # [17:40] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/02/12-css-irc
- # [17:40] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
- # [17:40] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
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- # [17:51] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
- # [17:51] <Zakim> +dael
- # [17:51] <dael> ScribeNick: dael
- # [17:51] * glazou will join at the top of the hour because his SIP account allows only 60mins of call
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- # [17:52] <glazou> Regrets+=zcorpan, florian, mihai, jerenkranz
- # [17:53] <Zakim> +??P43
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- # [17:53] <dwim_home> glazou: I'm here for the first time :)
- # [17:53] <SimonSapin> Zakim, ??P43 is me
- # [17:53] <Zakim> +SimonSapin; got it
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- # [17:53] <glazou> dwim_home, hello Dongwoo !!!
- # [17:54] <dwim_home> it's 2 am here in Korea
- # [17:54] <glazou> dwim_home, 2am for you right ?
- # [17:54] <glazou> yep
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- # [17:54] <glazou> urghhh
- # [17:54] <dwim_home> glazou: good to see you :)
- # [17:54] <Zakim> +SylvaIng
- # [17:54] <glazou> dwim_home, can you join the call?
- # [17:54] <Zakim> +??P54
- # [17:55] <glazou> Zakim, ??P54 is me
- # [17:55] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
- # [17:55] <Zakim> +krit
- # [17:56] <tantek> glazou - can we push charter discussion later in the call (not first) ? can't join for a bit.
- # [17:56] <dwim_home> glazou: I'm joining the call using the number for boston now.
- # [17:56] <Zakim> +??P5
- # [17:56] <abinader> Zakim, ??P5 is me
- # [17:56] <Zakim> +abinader; got it
- # [17:56] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
- # [17:56] <tantek> also if there's time, for the end of the agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Feb/0140.html
- # [17:56] <tantek> thanks for your consideration (on both items)
- # [17:56] <tantek> bbiab
- # [17:56] <Zakim> +??P38
- # [17:57] <glazou> noted tantek but the agenda is already pretty full...
- # [17:57] <Zakim> +glenn
- # [17:57] <leif> Zakim, I am ??P38
- # [17:57] <Zakim> +leif; got it
- # [17:57] <Zakim> +rhauck
- # [17:57] <Zakim> +Stearns
- # [17:57] <Zakim> +plinss
- # [17:58] <Zakim> +Bert
- # [17:58] <Zakim> +[Bloomberg]
- # [17:58] * sgalineau Opera deserves a "I don't always submit testcases...but when I do it's 85,000 of them" meme
- # [17:58] <glazou> Regrets+=antonp
- # [17:58] <glazou> sgalineau, ROFL
- # [17:58] <leif> sgalineau: LOL
- # [17:58] <glazou> with or without a napoleon hat ?-)
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- # [17:59] <Zakim> +BrianKardell
- # [17:59] <glazou> Zakim, who is here?
- # [17:59] <Zakim> On the phone I see dael, SimonSapin, dauwhe, [IPcaller], SylvaIng, glazou, krit, abinader, [Microsoft], leif, glenn, rhauck, Stearns, plinss, Bert, [Bloomberg], BrianKardell
- # [17:59] <Zakim> On IRC I see tantek, liam_, leif, dwim, dauwhe, dael, MaRakow, rhauck1, antonp, RRSAgent, Zakim, glazou, jet, dbaron, glenn, sgalineau, plh, abinader, arronei, slightlyoff_,
- # [17:59] <Zakim> ... lmclister, dfreedm, krijn, achicu, jacobg, cbiesinger, shepazu, ed, paul___irish
- # [17:59] * sgalineau Napoleon is too busy writing the 'testcases considered harmful' article
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- # [18:00] * plh zakim, call plh-work
- # [18:00] * Zakim ok, plh; the call is being made
- # [18:00] <Zakim> +Plh
- # [18:00] <plh> oops
- # [18:00] <plh> zakim, drop plh
- # [18:00] <Zakim> Plh is being disconnected
- # [18:00] <Zakim> -Plh
- # [18:00] * plh zakim, call plh-mobile
- # [18:00] * Zakim ok, plh; the call is being made
- # [18:00] <Zakim> +Plh
- # [18:00] <Zakim> +[Bloomberg.a]
- # [18:00] <c_palmer> Zakim, [Bloomberg.a] is me
- # [18:00] <Zakim> +c_palmer; got it
- # [18:00] <dael> glazou: Let's start
- # [18:01] <dael> glazou: As usual, any extra items?
- # [18:01] <dael> ...: It's pretty full, but if you have something we can retain for next week that's fine
- # [18:01] <dael> ...: We have an item from tantek
- # [18:01] <Zakim> +TabAtkins
- # [18:01] <dael> ???: Is it worth doing a poll on the call?
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- # [18:01] <SimonSapin> s/???/tantek/
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- # [18:01] <dael> glazou: You mean selectors? I suggest we do that
- # [18:01] <tantek> (hopefully quick, had one positive response from TabAtkins, no objections)
- # [18:01] <tantek> SimonSapin, haha I'm not on the call (yet)
- # [18:01] <dael> ...: I think the poll is invalid because it was changed.
- # [18:02] <dael> TabAtkins: As I said we know who saw it before the change.
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- # [18:02] <SimonSapin> oh, s/tantek:/???:/ then
- # [18:02] <Zakim> +dbaron
- # [18:02] <dael> glazou: We're just adding items now, and I responded on the list.
- # [18:02] * astearns it looks to me like the results make this argument over !/^ moot
- # [18:02] <dael> glazou: So first extra item is the poll. Any others?
- # [18:02] <dael> Topic: Charter
- # [18:02] <Zakim> +??P16
- # [18:02] <dael> glazou: Can we have an update on charter extension. Before you said ready b4 F2F
- # [18:03] <dael> plh: I think we're on tracka nd don't expect any surprised
- # [18:03] <dael> glazou: Any questions?
- # [18:03] <dael> Topic: New Regions WD
- # [18:03] <SimonSapin> (TabAtkins, present it as two polls with separate results)
- # [18:03] <dael> astearns: Just a new WD. It's been 8 months since last and there's been sub. changes so I'd like to publish
- # [18:03] <dael> RESOLVED: Publish a new WD of Regions
- # [18:03] <dael> plh: Is this the split we discussed?
- # [18:03] <dael> astearns: Yes.
- # [18:03] <dael> plh: Okay
- # [18:04] <SimonSapin> s/plh/Bert/
- # [18:04] <dael> glazou: So you approve?
- # [18:04] <dael> bert: I do
- # [18:04] <Zakim> +MaRakow
- # [18:04] <dael> glazou: Given that it's a hot topic, let's instert Grid now
- # [18:04] <dael> Topic: Grid Issues
- # [18:04] <astearns> s/grid/selector poll/
- # [18:05] <dael> glazou: So TabAtkins publish a poll about selectors. In short it's a Q, do you prefer !, descriptio or :has
- # [18:05] <dael> ...: The problem is originally it was ! or has but after 130 resolnces he changed the wording
- # [18:05] <dael> ...: lots of people rejected !
- # [18:06] <dael> ...: I think the new question is different and I don't think that we can infur anything because of that.
- # [18:06] <dael> ...: SimonSapin suggested a new poll ith three options, ! :has, or ???
- # [18:06] <dael> ...: So I think I reject the results of the poll
- # [18:06] <dael> SimonSapin: I agree results are useless but I think Tab should seperate results of exit poll
- # [18:07] <dael> TabAtkins: I can do first 130 os ! vs Has and the rest as cercumspect vs has
- # [18:07] <dael> glazou: I don't think you can do that
- # [18:07] <dael> TabAtkins: I think we have an ovwhelming result
- # [18:07] <dael> glazou: This just isn't the same question
- # [18:07] <dael> TabAtkins: We've had 800 results and most of them picked the same answer as before
- # [18:07] * sgalineau would love to discuss the issue instead of arguing about the polling
- # [18:08] <Zakim> +[Apple]
- # [18:08] <dbaron> so if you polled two separate questions at different times, just report the results separately?
- # [18:08] <hober> Zakim, Apple is me
- # [18:08] <Zakim> +hober; got it
- # [18:08] <dael> glazou: Taking my co-chair hat off, as a standards body we aim at doing things right and this isn't done right. We don't change the question in the middle of a vote
- # [18:08] <SimonSapin> sgalineau +1
- # [18:08] <dael> ...: Even if it's only 10% that disagree with what you say is final results.
- # [18:08] <SimonSapin> dbaron, this is effectively what happened
- # [18:08] <dael> TabAtkins: We're randomly sampling in the first place, so it just doesn't matter if they're two seperate polls
- # [18:09] <dael> ???: Since I'm on neither side of the discussion
- # [18:09] <dael> ...: I think when they put the poll together what they wanted to gage wasn't if ! is confusing
- # [18:09] <astearns> +1 to Tab's position. The results are useful considered separately. And they both point to the same result
- # [18:09] <dael> ...: But they wanted an indicator like a combinator
- # [18:09] <dael> ...: Overwhelming people picked the combinator
- # [18:09] <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
- # [18:09] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins, please give numbers for the separate results on IRC
- # [18:09] * sgalineau thinks good polling is actually hard and we're unlikely to get anywhere near as much as we think from those things.
- # [18:10] <dael> ...: We mixed two questions and I think TabAtkins was trying to act in good faith to see if we were asking the right question
- # [18:10] * fantasai Zakim, [IPcaller.a] is fantasai
- # [18:10] * Zakim +fantasai; got it
- # [18:10] <glenn> who is ???
- # [18:10] <glazou> s/???/briankardell
- # [18:10] <dael> ...: TabAtkins was saying we can derive people want a combinator and we can do another poll
- # [18:10] * sgalineau "design by committee can't decide...let's do a poll!"
- # [18:10] <dael> glazou: Reading the results, i think people were influenced by the ! and they were rejecting the !
- # [18:10] <dael> TabAtkins: And that's why the poll was changed to see if that was an issue.
- # [18:11] <glenn> s/briankardell/bkardell/
- # [18:11] * TabAtkins is going to leave the call until people stop ignoring that we're random-sampling this stuff and so it doesn't matter.
- # [18:11] <dael> bkardell: Do we have a reason for not doing what TabAtkins Is suggesting?
- # [18:11] <Zakim> -abinader
- # [18:11] <Zakim> -dbaron
- # [18:11] <Zakim> -TabAtkins
- # [18:11] <dael> ???: Is this just avoiding work so we can prove what TabAtkins is saying or have another statement?
- # [18:11] * Joins: lmcliste_ (~lmclister@public.cloak)
- # [18:11] <dael> bkardell: I think we can frame that with having just three options and that'll work
- # [18:11] <Zakim> +??P5
- # [18:11] * sgalineau 15mn into a one hour call we're still arguing about the poll instead of the issue.
- # [18:11] <abinader> Zakim, ??P5 is me
- # [18:11] <Zakim> +abinader; got it
- # [18:12] <dael> glazou: I think it's painful that we can't discuss what a member did without him leaving.
- # [18:12] <dael> ...: I'm going to stop now, but I'm disputing the results which we're going to specify
- # [18:12] <TabAtkins> I'm still here, I just can't stand listening to people pretend that a poll is "biased" because they don't understand population statistics.
- # [18:12] <dael> ...: This is impossible to discuss.
- # [18:12] <dael> glazou: We don't have an update on Shadow DOM
- # [18:12] <dael> glazou: I think saying I don't understand population stats is an insult.
- # [18:13] <dael> ???: I don' thtink that was the point, though.
- # [18:13] <Zakim> +TabAtkins
- # [18:13] <glazou> s/???/plh
- # [18:13] <dael> glazou: I'm saying the sampling isn't valid due to the change.
- # [18:13] <Zakim> -TabAtkins
- # [18:13] <dael> bkardell: I think there was an issue and we tried to resolve it. We can look at the issue and try and resolve the difference, but I think that we're running in circle and not making progress
- # [18:13] <glazou> Tab ?
- # [18:13] <TabAtkins> Tell me when you're done, plese.
- # [18:13] <dael> glazou: TabAtkins for Shadow DOM?
- # [18:14] <astearns> s/bkardell/sgalineau/
- # [18:14] <Zakim> +TabAtkins
- # [18:14] * dauwhe Tab, discussion of poll has ended
- # [18:14] <dael> Topic: Shadow DOM
- # [18:14] <dael> TabAtkins: Let me pull the info
- # [18:14] <dael> ...: First I'd like to see if we can finalize a named combinator
- # [18:14] <dael> ...: I'm assuming that /ident is a decent syntax
- # [18:14] * fantasai doesn't like it
- # [18:15] <dael> ...: It looks good to me and people in the thread.
- # [18:15] * krit TabAtkins you did not really quit the conference on purpose, did you? :)
- # [18:15] <dael> fantasai: I don't think that /ident is good because that's usually punctuation
- # [18:15] * sgalineau will take fantasai disagreement over any polling argument
- # [18:15] <dael> ...: It's usually just a character so I think a syntax in that pattern isn't a good idea. We have :ident #ident etc and they're all a compound selector
- # [18:16] <dael> ...: If we're going to have that it should have punct. at the begining and end and follow the white space rules of combinators
- # [18:16] <TabAtkins> `foo`
- # [18:16] <dael> dbaron: I think a few people liked the idea of brackets.
- # [18:16] <TabAtkins> /foo/
- # [18:16] <fantasai> /ident/
- # [18:16] <dael> fantasai: We can just use that (above)
- # [18:16] <fantasai> /ref somethingorother/
- # [18:17] <SimonSapin> is '/ ident' the same as '/ident' ?
- # [18:17] <fantasai> no
- # [18:17] <dael> TabAtkins: I'm fine with that. I like single slach, but 2 is okay as well.
- # [18:17] <astearns> I'm OK with either as well
- # [18:17] <fantasai> well, I guess we could define it either way :)
- # [18:17] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: No, it's not - ". ident" isnt' the same as ".ident"
- # [18:17] * Quits: rhauck (~Adium@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
- # [18:17] <SimonSapin> ok
- # [18:17] <dael> bkardell: I realize we don't have single style comments in CSS, but I worry that using something close to C++ is confusing to authors.
- # [18:17] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: Whitespace is significant in selectors.
- # [18:17] <dael> fantasai: It's a single slash followed by another slash, though.
- # [18:17] <astearns> was that s/bkardell/hober/ ?
- # [18:18] <sgalineau> so fantasai would rather have something like /foo/
- # [18:18] <sgalineau> ?
- # [18:18] <dael> TabAtkins: I'm done with that. If the WG qould like to resolve that's fine.
- # [18:18] * hober that's what i get for not having coffee yet :) sorry fantasai
- # [18:18] <bkardell> bkardell
- # [18:18] <TabAtkins> s/done/down/
- # [18:18] <dael> fantasai: I'm still wondering if it should be combinator instead of pseudoclass, but I haven't read entire thread.
- # [18:18] <bkardell> backticks comment was me
- # [18:18] <dael> TabAtkins: Any other syntax suggestions?
- # [18:18] * sgalineau caught up with IRC. Is OK with /foo/
- # [18:19] <dael> TabAtkins: backticks, slashes or...?
- # [18:19] <bkardell> I am good with `foo` or /foo/
- # [18:19] * fantasai doesn't like backticks, they're too light
- # [18:19] <TabAtkins> s/.../pseudo-elements/
- # [18:19] * fantasai visually
- # [18:19] <dael> ???: This isn't strictly combinator syntax.
- # [18:19] <astearns> s/???/hober/
- # [18:19] <dael> hober: I'm just wondering do we want to allow for future CSS to allow author-defined custom items
- # [18:20] * dbaron rejoins now that the ridiculous discussion has ended
- # [18:20] <dael> TabAtkins: Possibly which makes the ident nice.
- # [18:20] <dael> hober: I'm not sure quite what exlusion there was but I'd rather avoid collisions between the WG and arbitary def.
- # [18:20] <Zakim> +dbaron
- # [18:20] <dael> TabAtkins: The way the F2F discussion was - are technically allowed in HTML, the main space is ident-
- # [18:20] <dael> ...: In CSS we use _ the same.
- # [18:20] <dael> ...: So if your media query has _ it's custom
- # [18:21] * fantasai debates hanging up in order to protest people hanging up in protest
- # [18:21] <dael> hober: I'm fine with that for now.
- # [18:21] <dael> TabAtkins: This is a little ugly, but works. We'll avoid collisions.
- # [18:21] <dael> TabAtkins: Since there's no additional syntax ideas, feel free to butt in.
- # [18:21] * abinader disconnection wasn't voluntary!
- # [18:21] <dael> ...: Are we okay with / on both ends?
- # [18:21] <dael> TabAtkins: I'd like to resolve on that.
- # [18:22] <dael> bkardell: If we want a combinator in the future we bring it back
- # [18:22] <dael> fantasai: I'm not sure if this is right, but if we're going this way this is good.
- # [18:22] <TabAtkins> /ref(foo)/ or /ref foo/ or whatever
- # [18:22] <dbaron> Also, I'm minuted above as saying something at a point when I wasn't on the call.
- # [18:22] <fantasai> s/this/using a combinator rather than pseudo-class/
- # [18:22] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
- # [18:22] <glenn> +1 to what hober said
- # [18:22] <Zakim> -??P16
- # [18:22] <dael> bkardell: I'd like to authorize TabAtkins to do what he needs, but I'm not sure I want to say this is the right thing to do.
- # [18:22] <fantasai> s/this way/with a combinator/
- # [18:22] <fantasai> s/this is good/this syntax is good/
- # [18:22] * Joins: rhauck (~Adium@public.cloak)
- # [18:22] <glenn> s/bkardell/hober/
- # [18:22] <dael> ...: Would a watered down resolution to allow you to spec be okay?
- # [18:23] * astearns Zakim needs a new command: Zakim, note my protest disconnect
- # [18:23] <dael> TabAtkins: I speced it. I want to know if the WG is okay
- # [18:23] * sgalineau watered down? I take my resolutions straight up
- # [18:23] <dael> fantasai: Is this in selectors or shadow DOM?
- # [18:23] <dael> TabAtkins: Putting it in sleectors
- # [18:23] * hober one wg resolution on the rocks please
- # [18:23] <dael> fantasai: I'd pref Shadow DOM and let sleectors stabalize before shifting things into it.
- # [18:23] <dael> dbaron: Is that b/c you're not settled on named combinators?
- # [18:24] <astearns> s/dbaron/bkardell/
- # [18:24] <TabAtkins> s/dbaron/dauwhe/
- # [18:24] <astearns> heh
- # [18:24] * Rossen_f2f is now known as Rossen_
- # [18:24] * TabAtkins hasnt' heard enough of Brian yet. Could be wrong.
- # [18:24] <glenn> +1 to what fantasai is saying
- # [18:24] <dael> fantasai: I'm not objecting per se but I'm not sure if this is the right idea. Selectors is almost implemented and this isn't qualified. I'd rather leave it in shadow DOM so that it can be discussed more.
- # [18:24] <dael> ...: I don't want to mix this unstable thing with selectors where we're trying to take unstable things out.
- # [18:25] <dael> TabAtkins: As long as no one is actively obj to syntax it can stay
- # [18:25] * fantasai let the shadow dom debate happen in the shadow dom...inion
- # [18:25] <dael> TabAtkins: In other words it sounds like we can move on
- # [18:25] <glenn> s/it can stay/it is good enough for me for now/
- # [18:25] <dael> glazou: Excellent
- # [18:25] * sgalineau another RFC 6919 resolution. 'SHOULD CONSIDER' \0/
- # [18:25] <dael> Topic: Counter Styles API
- # [18:26] <dael> TabAtkins: Xidorn brought up interesting CSSOM questions
- # [18:26] * hober fantasai: i can't decide if a bab5 joke or a ds9 joke is a more appropriate followup to your emote
- # [18:26] <dael> ...: If you don't spec a descriptor in the style sheet, what rule should appear? Null, empty string, or initial value?
- # [18:26] <dael> ???: Any impl consistancy?
- # [18:26] <glenn> s/???/glenn/
- # [18:27] <dael> TabAtkins: None I've seen. Thoughtbase (?) has it implemented
- # [18:27] <Zakim> -abinader
- # [18:27] <dael> dbaron: In many ways this is similar to properties, but there's not difference between original and unset
- # [18:27] <Zakim> +??P5
- # [18:27] <dbaron> s/original/initial value/
- # [18:27] <dael> ...: My feeling is leave it the same as there's not semeantic difference
- # [18:27] <TabAtkins> s/Thoughtbase/@font-face/
- # [18:27] <abinader> Zakim, ??P5 is me
- # [18:27] <Zakim> +abinader; got it
- # [18:27] <dbaron> ... as the empty string
- # [18:27] <Rossen_> zakim, microsoft has me
- # [18:27] <Zakim> +Rossen_; got it
- # [18:28] <dael> fantasai: Interesting question is if you're doing the OM, do you want to rest, or preserve what the editor put in?
- # [18:28] <dael> ...: If there's no semantic difference it seems like things that are initial should stay set that way.
- # [18:28] * Joins: jrossi2 (~jrossi@public.cloak)
- # [18:28] <dael> TabAtkins: Sep but related question. You need to spec how these things serealize.
- # [18:28] <dael> ...: If you omit everything you would omit anything set to inital value too
- # [18:29] <dael> TabAtkins: I think I like having it reflect initial value and on the serialization side specify you omit the scriptor is it's they're inital value
- # [18:29] <dael> ...: How does that sound?
- # [18:29] <dael> dbaron: On q is what do they do for @font-face
- # [18:29] * plh zakim, who is on the phone?
- # [18:29] * Zakim sees on the phone: dael, SimonSapin, dauwhe, [IPcaller], SylvaIng, glazou, krit, [Microsoft], leif, glenn, rhauck, Stearns, plinss, Bert, [Bloomberg], BrianKardell, c_palmer, Plh,
- # [18:29] * Zakim ... MaRakow, hober, fantasai, TabAtkins, dbaron, [Microsoft.a], abinader
- # [18:29] * Zakim [Microsoft] has Rossen_
- # [18:29] <dael> TabAtkins: I'm not sure. If we want to move on and come back to me I can test for 5 min and come back with data
- # [18:30] <dael> TabAtkins: So let's do that. I'm come back in a few to tell you what font-face does in chrome and firefox
- # [18:30] <dael> glazou: So we can move on?
- # [18:30] <dael> Topic: Concept of Baselines
- # [18:30] <dael> dbaron: I don't think this needs telecon time
- # [18:30] <dael> glazou: Okay, good.
- # [18:30] <dael> Topic: ::first-letter
- # [18:30] <dael> dbaron: We had a long debate about what goes in ::first-letter.
- # [18:31] <dael> ...: spec if specfic when punc. extends first letter, but not what a first letter is.
- # [18:31] <dael> ...: First letter apllies to first letter and also applies to digits, but doesn't mention anything else.
- # [18:31] <dael> ...: I think Echo is the only one that does letter or digits and we occ. get bugs were people expect it to apply to symbols
- # [18:31] <dael> ...: I remember + and $.
- # [18:32] <dael> ...: It would be nice if spec said what the first letter applied to
- # [18:32] <dael> ...: There's one other quirk with this where we reference character classes we need to say what version of unicode we're referencing
- # [18:32] <astearns> s/Echo/Gecko/
- # [18:33] <dael> dbaron: Do people think symbols should be a first letter? Is that a bug in other impl?
- # [18:33] <Zakim> +??P14
- # [18:33] <tantek> Zakim, ??P14 is tantek
- # [18:33] <Zakim> +tantek; got it
- # [18:33] <dael> fantasai: I think it's fine. The interesting q is do we just include symbol, or symbol and next thing
- # [18:33] <dael> ??: I would expect on ly the symbol.
- # [18:33] <dael> bert: That's not what I would expect
- # [18:33] <astearns> s/??/astearns/
- # [18:33] <tantek> ooh are we debating syntax live on the call? nice. ;)
- # [18:33] <dael> ???: Is this based on unicode catagories?
- # [18:33] <dael> TabAtkins: That would be nice.
- # [18:34] <SimonSapin> s/???/SimonSapin/
- # [18:34] <TabAtkins> s/TabAtkins/dbaron/
- # [18:34] <dael> ??? So we would blacklist a bunch of catagories it doesn't apply to?
- # [18:34] <dbaron> s/???/hober:/
- # [18:34] <dael> TabAtkins: That may work, things like white space
- # [18:34] <dbaron> s/TabAtkins/dbaron/
- # [18:35] <dael> fantasai: There's some general classes in unicode, like high level ones.
- # [18:35] <dael> ...: I think we're only interested in doing high level ones
- # [18:35] <fantasai> s/general/two levels of general/
- # [18:35] <fantasai> s/like high/higher and lower/
- # [18:35] <dael> astearns: Suppose unicode decided to add a new top level class. I'd rather have that included. I don't anticipate them adding white space.
- # [18:35] <tantek> spacy, is that like falsy?
- # [18:36] <dael> TabAtkins: I think if they add a new class, we want the old rules to apply.
- # [18:36] <tantek> spacy characters?
- # [18:36] <astearns> s/TabAtkins/dbaron/
- # [18:36] <astearns> and s/astearns/hober/ (I think)
- # [18:36] <dael> dbaron: Unless someone else wants to, I guess I should write a proposal?
- # [18:36] <dael> hober: I think we're all agreeing
- # [18:36] <dael> dbaron: Sounds like we're done.
- # [18:36] <Rossen_> s/hober/Rossen_/
- # [18:36] <dbaron> s/hober/Rossen/
- # [18:37] <dael> TabAtkins: can we jump back?
- # [18:37] <dael> ...: In both chrome and firefox, font-face is the empty string.
- # [18:37] <dael> ...: I'll find a place to spec that.
- # [18:37] <dael> dbaron: Sounds good to me.
- # [18:37] <dael> TabAtkins: Cool.
- # [18:37] <dbaron> s/to me/to me, given that it's what we do for properties/
- # [18:37] <TabAtkins> s/font-face/unspecified descriptors in @font-face/
- # [18:38] * dbaron Zakim, who is noisy?
- # [18:38] * Zakim dbaron, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: glazou (37%)
- # [18:38] <dael> TabAtkins: Can we get a resolutions?
- # [18:38] <dael> glazou: Comments?
- # [18:38] <dael> TabAtkins: For any unspec descriptors in @ rules that font-face and counter style, they're in the OM as the empty string
- # [18:38] <dael> hober: And this is what they do?
- # [18:39] <dael> TabAtkins: In chrome and fireforx.
- # [18:39] <astearns> s/hober/rossen/
- # [18:39] <TabAtkins> <!DOCTYPE html>
- # [18:39] <TabAtkins> <style>
- # [18:39] <TabAtkins> @font-face {
- # [18:39] <TabAtkins> font-family: foo;
- # [18:39] <TabAtkins> src: url(foo);
- # [18:39] <TabAtkins> }
- # [18:39] <TabAtkins> </style>
- # [18:39] <dael> rossen: Can you post that test?
- # [18:39] <dael> TabAtkins: I did that and poked around for font weights.
- # [18:39] <dael> glazou: To be sure, it's qhen you query the explicit value of a descriptor?
- # [18:39] <dael> TabAtkins: That's a good question.
- # [18:40] <dael> glazou: I don't want to see it effecting a group.
- # [18:40] <dael> TabAtkins: CSSOM defines that and impl differ.
- # [18:40] <dael> ...: Right now in chrome you see every prop that could apply to any element show up.
- # [18:40] <dael> ...: That's likely because we're using the same impl.
- # [18:40] <dael> glazou: Then I have no obj.
- # [18:41] <dael> rossen: Just a second, I'm getting on my comp to test it.
- # [18:42] <dael> TabAtkins: Do you want us to wait, or should we move on and you can report back.
- # [18:42] <dael> Rossen_: It'll take me two minutes.
- # [18:42] <dael> glazou: We'll come back when Rossen_ is ready
- # [18:42] <dael> TopicL Grid Issues
- # [18:42] <dael> SimonSapin: Biggest issue is how we define size of grid item and grid container
- # [18:42] <dael> ...: Did I miss that in the spec, or is it not written?
- # [18:43] <Zakim> -abinader
- # [18:43] <dael> TabAtkins: I'm not ready to handle the issues. We're working on it and will answer as we get there.
- # [18:43] <dael> ...: We haven't made it there quite yet. fantasai and I are working together.
- # [18:43] <dael> ...: As soon as I can I'll do it, but if you want to message me privatly with a time line, that's okay
- # [18:43] <dael> SimonSapin: We don't need more time for any grid issues.
- # [18:44] <TabAtkins> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Feb/0356.html
- # [18:44] <dael> Topic: inline box, atomic inline-level box, and transformable elements
- # [18:44] <dael> glazou: I saw some ML answers on this
- # [18:44] <dael> TabAtkins: I think he has asking about the earlier descion that inline-elements being able to be transformed
- # [18:45] <dael> ...: and dbaron had a seperate question that was tangentally related about the spec only applying to elements related to CSS.
- # [18:45] <dael> ...: But that's different than the orignal
- # [18:45] <dael> dbaron: My q was that the spec isn't saying what we want it to and we should check that before we nit-pick.
- # [18:45] <dael> ...: so we said it shouldn't aplly to transofrms
- # [18:45] <dael> many: yes
- # [18:46] <dael> ??: I think we want to say we can transform a box, not a collection of elements.
- # [18:46] <dael> TabAtkins: We only transform fragments that are the sole fragment created by a box.
- # [18:46] <dael> ...: they're the sole fragment by decision not happenstance.
- # [18:46] <dael> dbaron: Didn't we dicuss this at the F2F?
- # [18:46] <dael> ??: We did, but we didn't agree. The agreement was it shouldn't apply.
- # [18:47] <dbaron> s/dicuss this/have a long discussion about how transforms apply to fragmented blocks/
- # [18:47] * Rossen_ I'm good with the previous resolution
- # [18:47] <dael> dbaron: Seems bad it stops applying as soon as you print.
- # [18:47] <dael> ??: That's a good question.
- # [18:47] <dael> dbaron: I'm okay with not applying ti inline, but I'm not okay that it stops as soon as it fragments.
- # [18:47] <dael> TabAtkins: Starting with the base question, is the test wrong b/c spec says it shouldn't apply to inline.
- # [18:48] <dael> ...: IN other words, the test is wrong. It currently assumes that fragments apply to inline.
- # [18:48] <dael> TabAtkins: Cool. So Gerard is right. We can take this later to decide what the definition os transformable elements should be.
- # [18:48] <dael> s/os/of
- # [18:48] <Zakim> -[Bloomberg]
- # [18:48] <dael> TabAtkins: So it sounds like that finishes the issue.
- # [18:48] <dael> glazou: Okay.
- # [18:49] <dael> glazou: tantek you still there?
- # [18:49] <glazou> tantek, PING :-)
- # [18:49] <dbaron> seems like the spec ought to exclude non-replaced inlines rather than imply that any new formatting primitives (flexbox, grid, etc.) aren't transformable
- # [18:49] <fantasai> +!
- # [18:49] * Zakim wonders where ! is
- # [18:49] * sgalineau suggests we all hang up in protest at 10am sharp
- # [18:49] <dael> Topic: Line box edge
- # [18:49] <dael> tantek: I made a proposal to change that based on impl.
- # [18:49] <fantasai> ?
- # [18:49] <fantasai> tantek, link?
- # [18:49] <dael> ...: I got one positive reply, but I wanted to run it by the group before I edited.
- # [18:50] <dael> ??: It sounded good to me.
- # [18:50] <tantek> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Feb/0140.html
- # [18:50] <dael> glazou: Can you post the link?
- # [18:50] <fantasai> +1 from me
- # [18:51] <dael> tantek: Thanks fantasai
- # [18:51] <dael> glazou: Other optinions?
- # [18:51] <dael> fantasai: I think you want to run it by Robert Callahan
- # [18:51] <dael> tantek: I already pinged him. I want to hear from other impl.
- # [18:51] <dbaron> s/Callahan/O'Callahan/
- # [18:51] <dael> ...: We (firefox) want to match webkit and want to make sure other impl find it acceptable
- # [18:52] <dael> rossen: It will mean a change for us, but I agree auto behaviour makes more sense
- # [18:52] <Bert> +1 from me, too
- # [18:52] <dael> glazou: Anyone from webkit?
- # [18:52] <dael> ???: webkit will change when microsoft changes.
- # [18:52] <krit> s/???: webkit will change when microsoft changes.//
- # [18:53] <dael> tantek: There's wo changes, one webkit already does, one that's a logical consiquence of the change.
- # [18:53] <dael> tantek: I don't think anyone does the second behaviour yet, but it makes sense.
- # [18:53] <dael> Rossen_: I think that's fine. We can revisit later.
- # [18:53] <dael> glazou: No objections? You've got it tantek
- # [18:53] <dael> glazou: We've got more time. Anything else?
- # [18:53] <dael> tantek: Did you do charteR?
- # [18:53] <dael> glazou: Yes. It'll be under review shortly
- # [18:54] <dael> tantek: I think the super-group discussion needs to continue.
- # [18:54] <dael> glazou: Yes, from time to time it's extremely beurocratic.
- # [18:54] <dael> ...: It lacks a bit, but I don't think all exisiting super-groups will be in the same catagory.
- # [18:54] <dael> ...: They'll be quite different and I'm not sure the current prose will work for everything.
- # [18:55] <dael> tantek: I think glazou is having a positive impact and you should keep going.
- # [18:55] <dael> glazou: We needed something different. This isn't working.
- # [18:55] * sgalineau hangs up in violent protest
- # [18:55] <dael> glazou: Anything else?
- # [18:55] <Zakim> -hober
- # [18:55] <Zakim> -SylvaIng
- # [18:55] <Zakim> -krit
- # [18:55] <dael> glazou: Thank you and talk to you next week.
- # [18:55] <Zakim> -Plh
- # [18:55] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
- # [18:55] <Zakim> -dbaron
- # [18:55] <Zakim> -BrianKardell
- # [18:55] <Zakim> -dauwhe
- # [18:55] <Zakim> -glazou
- # [18:55] <Zakim> -c_palmer
- # [18:55] <Zakim> -fantasai
- # [18:55] <Zakim> -SimonSapin
- # [18:55] <Zakim> -Stearns
- # [18:55] <Zakim> -Bert
- # [18:55] <Zakim> -TabAtkins
- # [18:55] <Zakim> -MaRakow
- # [18:55] <Zakim> -tantek
- # [18:55] <Zakim> -dael
- # [18:55] <Zakim> -plinss
- # [18:55] <Zakim> -leif
- # [18:55] <Zakim> -rhauck
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- # [19:01] <Zakim> -glenn
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- # [19:06] <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, [Microsoft], in Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
- # [19:06] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
- # [19:06] <Zakim> Attendees were dael, SimonSapin, dauwhe, [IPcaller], SylvaIng, glazou, krit, abinader, glenn, leif, rhauck, Stearns, plinss, Bert, [Bloomberg], BrianKardell, Plh, c_palmer,
- # [19:06] <Zakim> ... TabAtkins, dbaron, MaRakow, hober, fantasai, Rossen_, tantek
- # [19:07] <dbaron> are the results of TabAtkins's poll visible somewhere?
- # [19:07] <TabAtkins> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmRB4Bq4bNRBdHdCcDJJZWxEaEhLU20yOGo1ZVBvT2c&usp=sharing
- # [19:07] <TabAtkins> I'm writing up an email with the results now.
- # [19:08] <TabAtkins> It's so lopsided I dont' think I need to continue the poll.
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- # [19:09] <dbaron> TabAtkins, was there any other summary of the results that led to people's reactions?
- # [19:10] <TabAtkins> I hadn't given a summary yet, no. Just what was in the thread.
- # [19:15] <astearns> I was surprised by the poll change, but it seemed entirely reasonable
- # [19:15] <astearns> another day of "! means not!" responses wouldn't have been as useful
- # [19:15] <TabAtkins> Yeah, we'd gotten a lot of comments int he initial results like that.
- # [19:15] <dbaron> agreed
- # [19:16] <dbaron> I think having 10 minutes of the call being the chair complaining (with "chair hat off", maybe?) about Tab's predicted future actions was not a good use of telecon time.
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- # [19:17] <astearns> agreed
- # [19:17] <dbaron> that's why I hung up
- # [19:17] <TabAtkins> Me too.
- # [19:19] <dbaron> (above, on IRC, I was just trying to figure out if there was something I'd missed that led to that)
- # [19:20] <astearns> I don't think so
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- # [19:21] <TabAtkins> Hah, though someone in the comments points out that ^ has negation implications too (from regex character classes) ^_^
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- # [19:22] <SimonSapin> Naming is hard, but giving arbitrary meaning to ASCII characters is harder :)
- # [19:22] <TabAtkins> Yup.
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- # [21:00] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: what’s the preferred way to track Selectors issues?
- # [21:02] <SimonSapin> or fantasai?
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- # [21:11] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: Mailling list, or in spec.
- # [21:25] * Disconnected
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- # [21:29] * Topic is 'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Feb/0431.html'
- # [21:29] * Set by glazou on Wed Feb 12 17:42:54
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- # [21:35] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: I'm going to spend the rest of this week porting Bikeshed to Python3. Any immediate pitfalls you know of?
- # [21:39] <SimonSapin> Are you dropping 2 ?
- # [21:40] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: ^
- # [21:40] <TabAtkins> Planning to, but I'm doing the work in a branch first so I can play with it.
- # [21:40] <TabAtkins> I've informed Peter about it, so I'll keep Bikeshed's p2 support until he's done, at least.
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- # [21:41] <SimonSapin> Another option is to write code that runs on both
- # [21:41] <SimonSapin> same code base
- # [21:41] <SimonSapin> http://python3porting.com/toc.html is a good guide
- # [21:41] <SimonSapin> either way
- # [21:42] <TabAtkins> The main reason I'm doing it is to simplify unicode handling, because I *still* run into encoding errors.
- # [21:42] <TabAtkins> So maintaining a compatible codebase seems unlikely.
- # [21:42] <SimonSapin> ok
- # [21:42] <SimonSapin> then you can start with 2to3
- # [21:42] <SimonSapin> a tool that does automatic conversion, to some extent
- # [21:42] <TabAtkins> Yeah, playing with that now.
- # [21:43] <SimonSapin> and generally, know if any piece of data is supposed to be bytes or unicode
- # [21:43] <SimonSapin> and try to only deal with bytes when doing I/O
- # [21:44] <TabAtkins> It's not that I don't know, it's that Python2's insistence on the u prefix for all real strings is apparently impossible for me to enforce on myself.
- # [21:45] <SimonSapin> ah
- # [21:45] <SimonSapin> from __future__ import unicode_literals on 2.x may help
- # [21:45] <TabAtkins> ...why am I not already using that?
- # [21:45] <SimonSapin> it makes u the default
- # [21:45] <SimonSapin> b'foo' if you want bytes
- # [21:46] <TabAtkins> Yeah, that would be *awesome*.
- # [21:46] <TabAtkins> All right, fuck all this shit forever, let's try just doing that.
- # [21:46] <SimonSapin> try with that before porting
- # [21:46] <SimonSapin> # coding: utf8
- # [21:47] <SimonSapin> from __future__ import division, unicode_literals
- # [21:47] <SimonSapin> all my files start basically like this
- # [21:48] <SimonSapin> you may want 'from __future__ import absolute_import' too, but I find it less essential
- # [21:49] <SimonSapin> http://docs.python.org/2/library/__future__.html
- # [21:50] <TabAtkins> All right, so all input from file reading is bytes until I explicitly decode, right?
- # [21:53] <SimonSapin> eh, depends
- # [21:53] <SimonSapin> if you want bytes, use open(name, 'rb')
- # [21:54] <SimonSapin> you can also get unicode-mode files: import io; io.open(name, encoding='utf-8')
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- # [21:55] <TabAtkins> Sorry, didn't actually mean "bytes" there, just "Python 2 normal strings".
- # [21:55] <TabAtkins> But I didn't know about unicode-mode files!
- # [21:55] <SimonSapin> define normal? :)
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- # [21:56] <SimonSapin> On 2.x, the default string type 'str' contains bytes, 'unicode' is code points
- # [21:56] <TabAtkins> Yeah.
- # [21:56] <SimonSapin> on 3.x, 'str' is code points and there is a new 'bytes' type that’s an immutable array of 8bit integers
- # [21:57] <SimonSapin> on 2.x, 'bytes' is an alias for 'str'
- # [21:57] <SimonSapin> yeah, it’s a mess
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- # [21:59] <TabAtkins> Okay, that is waht I was saying, then.
- # [21:59] <TabAtkins> unicode_literals doesn't change the behavior of open(), right? You still get a str object when you do a read()?
- # [21:59] <SimonSapin> it doesn’t
- # [21:59] <TabAtkins> k, switching to io.open as well, then.
- # [22:00] <SimonSapin> open() on 3.x is io.open
- # [22:00] <TabAtkins> Yeah.
- # [22:00] <SimonSapin> on 2.x, open() without 'b' in the mode converts various newlines to '\n'
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- # [23:11] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: Man, random parts of lxml still pop out bytestrings. :/
- # [23:11] <TabAtkins> Like el.tag
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- # [23:14] <TabAtkins> But at least .text and .tail preserve unicode-ness if the input is unicode.
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- # [23:29] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: on 2.x, byte strings that contain ASCII are mostly equivalent to the same text in unicode
- # [23:29] <SimonSapin> they convert implicitly
- # [23:31] <TabAtkins> Yeah, except for the functions that auto-convert evertying to bytestrings when any argument is a bytestring.
- # [23:31] <TabAtkins> like str.replace()
- # [23:32] <SimonSapin> doesn’t it auto convert to unicode?
- # [23:32] <TabAtkins> Nope!
- # [23:32] <TabAtkins> As evidenced by the unicode failure I'm running into because the return value of the date formatting functions is a bytestring.
- # [23:32] <TabAtkins> I remember having this trouble initially, which is why I spammed u() fucking EVERYWHERE.
- # [23:32] <TabAtkins> Just in case.
- # [23:33] <TabAtkins> Especially in .replace() arguments.
- # [23:33] * Joins: sgalineau (~sgalineau@public.cloak)
- # [23:36] <SimonSapin> b'ab'.replace(b'a', u'é') gives u'\xe9b' on 2.x for me
- # [23:37] <SimonSapin> u'ab'.replace(b'a', b'c') is also Unicode
- # [23:37] <TabAtkins> Ah, that might be the case. Still doesn't help me when one of the inputs is a bytestring *containing* non-ASCII. ^_^
- # [23:38] <TabAtkins> Which was the case here - I'm still catching the .open() calls that I need to convert.
- # [23:38] * Quits: dauwhe (~dauwhe@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
- # [23:38] <SimonSapin> yes, non-ASCII bytes cause an error if it’s implicitly converted
- # [23:38] <SimonSapin> but lxml only gives you bytes for ASCII-only strings
- # [23:39] <TabAtkins> Ah, kk.
- # [23:40] <TabAtkins> So as long as *I'm* clean, I should be fine?
- # [23:40] <SimonSapin> yeah
- # [23:40] <TabAtkins> I just need to know if I should treat data coming from lxml as tainted, like I do data from the filesystem.
- # [23:40] <TabAtkins> kk
- # [23:40] * Joins: heycam|away (~cam@public.cloak)
- # [23:40] <SimonSapin> no, lxml should be doing the right thing
- # [23:41] <SimonSapin> assuming automatic conversion is not broken
- # [23:41] <SimonSapin> like if something uses isinstance()
- # [23:41] * Joins: dwim (~Dongwoo@public.cloak)
- # [23:42] <TabAtkins> Well, I'll just trust you that it's okay for now.
- # [23:42] <TabAtkins> Converted __init__ over and it now builds Flexbox cleanly.
- # [23:45] * Quits: liam (liam@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
- # [23:46] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
- # [23:50] * Quits: dwim (~Dongwoo@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
- # Session Close: Thu Feb 13 00:00:00 2014
The end :)