/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2014-03-06 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Thu Mar 06 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #css
  3. # [00:00] * Quits: rhauck (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
  4. # [00:00] * fantasai doubts there are many normative lines of spec text that date from 2007
  5. # [00:12] <SimonSapin> fantasai: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/csswg/file/tip/css-fonts only has generated files. The source files are… somewhere
  6. # [00:13] <SimonSapin> something about running Bert’s preprocessor locally, without network access
  7. # [00:13] <TabAtkins> Pretty sure John is the only person in the WG to have ever gotten Bert's preprocessor running locally.
  8. # [00:37] * Parts: jcraig (~jcraig@public.cloak) (jcraig)
  9. # [00:40] <SimonSapin> fantasai, TabAtkins: how does this look? https://pastebin.mozilla.org/4483660
  10. # [00:40] <TabAtkins> I like it, but drop the "Hi". ^_^
  11. # [00:41] * TabAtkins hates those nil-content opening lines, and always has to trim them when replying.
  12. # [00:41] <SimonSapin> habits
  13. # [00:41] <fantasai> SimonSapin: I would drop the statement about other drafts
  14. # [00:41] <fantasai> just keep it focused on CSS2
  15. # [00:42] <SimonSapin> fantasai: both of them?
  16. # [00:42] <fantasai> delete the parenthetical
  17. # [00:42] <fantasai> Add also a sentence about how CSS2.1 will be the *least* up-to-date of all the CSS specs on /TR
  18. # [00:43] <SimonSapin> what do you mean?
  19. # [00:43] <fantasai> because updating it on /TR is exceptionally slow
  20. # [00:43] <fantasai> For most of the other drafts we have, we do try to push updates on a regular basis
  21. # [00:43] <fantasai> as edits are made
  22. # [00:43] <fantasai> they get chunked
  23. # [00:43] <fantasai> but they get up there
  24. # [00:43] <fantasai> if a draft is out of date by a year from the ED
  25. # [00:43] <fantasai> that's unusual and should be fixed
  26. # [00:44] <fantasai> but for CSS2.1, because of all the overhead for updating it
  27. # [00:44] <fantasai> it's going to be years out of date most of the time
  28. # [00:44] <TabAtkins> ...that would be why his parenthetical reccommends looking that the ED.
  29. # [00:45] <fantasai> and that won't be something we'll fix just by somone noticing and saying "oh, hey, shouldn't we publish an updated draft of this next week"
  30. # [00:45] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Yeah, but the comments are pretty general to all drafts. This one is way way way worse
  31. # [00:45] <fantasai> than all other drafts we have
  32. # [00:45] <fantasai> Like, i18nwg can keep up with CSS just by checking over our WD publications
  33. # [00:45] <fantasai> because they're frequent enough to be useful at the frequency that they need to keep up with it
  34. # [00:46] <fantasai> but that's not going to be true for 2.1
  35. # [00:46] <fantasai> (if they're interested in the edits that would go there, probably not, since they'll be mostly box model fixes...)
  36. # [00:46] <SimonSapin> fantasai: wanna suggest some phrasing? :)
  37. # [00:46] <fantasai> uh
  38. # [00:47] <fantasai> "Unlike other CSS drafts, which are published to /TR periodically, CSS2.1 is unlikely to be updated on /TR for a very long time." ?
  39. # [00:48] <fantasai> and then s/this reason/these reasons/ in the next sentence
  40. # [00:49] <SimonSapin> https://pastebin.mozilla.org/4483751
  41. # [00:51] <SimonSapin> fantasai: ^
  42. # [00:59] <fantasai> s/a snapshot/the snapshot/
  43. # [00:59] <fantasai> s/may want to/should/ ?
  44. # [01:00] <fantasai> s/may want to/probably want to/ ?
  45. # [01:00] * fantasai wonders whether the new process solves this problem
  46. # [01:01] <fantasai> well, the Process-related part, not the publication-related part
  47. # [01:01] <fantasai> which plh is supposedly solving
  48. # [01:01] <SimonSapin> oops, too late
  49. # [01:01] <SimonSapin> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Mar/0118.html
  50. # [01:01] * fantasai really should lock some W3C Staff member into a closet until that's fixed
  51. # [01:02] <fantasai> Ok, now post to the blog!
  52. # [01:02] <fantasai> you can fix those things in the blog post :]
  53. # [01:04] <SimonSapin> hum, feel free to write the blog post :]
  54. # [01:04] <SimonSapin> or I’ll do it tomorrow
  55. # [01:13] * Quits: antonp (~Thunderbird@public.cloak) (antonp)
  56. # [01:39] * Joins: rhauck (~Adium@public.cloak)
  57. # [01:46] <TabAtkins> fantasai: So, Friday, right?
  58. # [02:15] * Quits: tantek_ (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek_)
  59. # [02:16] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek)
  60. # [02:28] * Quits: rhauck (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
  61. # [02:40] <fantasai> TabAtkins: yep
  62. # [02:40] <fantasai> SimonSapin: I'll let you do it tomorrow
  63. # [02:50] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
  64. # [02:54] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek)
  65. # [03:25] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak) ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
  66. # [04:13] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
  67. # [04:18] <fantasai> Bert, you forgot the LC announcement post to the blog
  68. # [04:18] <fantasai> for css3-background
  69. # [04:23] * fantasai shrugs
  70. # [04:23] <fantasai> the LC period is over, though, we can prep a DoC and publish CR...
  71. # [04:23] <fantasai> Maybe announce the CR to the blog, together with the changes it includes :)
  72. # [04:38] <fantasai> leaverou_away: Can you write a blog post about the spread radius changes in css3-background?
  73. # [04:38] <fantasai> You can link your demo thing
  74. # [04:38] * fantasai looks for it, it's somewhere here
  75. # [04:39] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek)
  76. # [04:39] <fantasai> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-backgrounds-3/spread-radius
  77. # [04:40] <fantasai> leaverou_away: that should be a permanent url
  78. # [04:44] * Quits: CSSWG_LogBot (~PircBot@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  79. # [04:44] * Quits: leaverou_away (~leaverou@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  80. # [04:44] * Quits: projector (~projector@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  81. # [04:44] * Quits: shans (~shans@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  82. # [04:44] * Quits: sylvaing (~sylvaing@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  83. # [04:44] * Quits: alexmog (~alexmog@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  84. # [04:44] * Quits: plinss (~plinss@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  85. # [04:51] * Joins: CSSWG_LogBot (~PircBot@public.cloak)
  86. # [04:51] -CSSWG_LogBot:#css- This channel is logged - http://log.csswg.org/irc.w3.org/css/
  87. # [04:52] * Joins: alexmog_away (~alexmog@public.cloak)
  88. # [04:52] * alexmog_away is now known as alexmog
  89. # [04:52] * Joins: projector (~projector@public.cloak)
  90. # [04:53] * Joins: leaverou_away (~leaverou@public.cloak)
  91. # [04:53] * leaverou_away is now known as leaverou
  92. # [04:53] * Joins: plinss_away (~plinss@public.cloak)
  93. # [04:53] * plinss_away is now known as plinss
  94. # [04:54] * Joins: shans_away (~shans@public.cloak)
  95. # [04:54] * shans_away is now known as shans
  96. # [04:55] * Joins: sylvaing_away (~sylvaing@public.cloak)
  97. # [04:55] * sylvaing_away is now known as sylvaing
  98. # [05:02] * fantasai waves to sylvaing
  99. # [05:12] <fantasai> leaverou: ping
  100. # [05:12] <fantasai> !
  101. # [05:13] <fantasai> leaverou: Was wondering if you can help us get author reactions to the spread radius changes
  102. # [05:29] <liam> speaking of that, I was thinking about a mirror-property-values-on-opposite-pages property for lea's margin box use case. but maybe too specific (albeit a very common use case)
  103. # [05:32] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@public.cloak) ("")
  104. # [05:48] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak)
  105. # [06:44] * Quits: Dwight_Stegall (~YIM@public.cloak) ("I'm bored, time to go.")
  106. # [06:59] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
  107. # [08:06] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Try not to lose metadata when you convert things?
  108. # [08:06] * fantasai had to notice that the editors' affiliations was removed from namespaces and go fix that :/
  109. # [08:09] <fantasai> Relatedly, I'd be fine if people cleaned my desk as long as they didn't throw out random papers. But would rather clean it myself if they're going to throw out random papers.
  110. # [08:12] * fantasai is a grumpy editor
  111. # [08:14] * Parts: jet (~junglecode@public.cloak) (jet)
  112. # [08:31] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek)
  113. # [08:34] * Quits: dauwhe_ (~dauwhe@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  114. # [08:56] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak) ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
  115. # [09:15] * Joins: dauwhe_ (~dauwhe@public.cloak)
  116. # [09:20] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak)
  117. # [09:21] * Joins: Dwight_Stegall (~YIM@public.cloak)
  118. # [09:51] * Quits: Dwight_Stegall (~YIM@public.cloak) ("I'm bored, time to go.")
  119. # [11:28] * RRSAgent excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  120. # [11:28] * Parts: RRSAgent (rrsagent@public.cloak) (RRSAgent)
  121. # [11:55] * Joins: darktears (~darktears@public.cloak)
  122. # [13:12] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak) ("bbl")
  123. # [14:17] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak)
  124. # [15:02] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
  125. # [15:34] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  126. # [15:42] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  127. # [15:42] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  128. # [15:47] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  129. # [15:47] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  130. # [15:54] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  131. # [16:08] * Joins: glenn (~gadams@public.cloak)
  132. # [16:30] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  133. # [16:40] * Quits: dauwhe_ (~dauwhe@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  134. # [16:40] * Joins: dauwhe_ (~dauwhe@public.cloak)
  135. # [16:45] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  136. # [16:46] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  137. # [16:53] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  138. # [16:56] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  139. # [17:03] * Joins: koji (~koji@public.cloak)
  140. # [17:39] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak)
  141. # [17:48] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak)
  142. # [17:51] * Quits: koji (~koji@public.cloak) ("Leaving...")
  143. # [18:00] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@public.cloak)
  144. # [18:05] <TabAtkins> fantasai: I dropped those on purpose, actually - they're outdated, and I'm not sure it's useful to say "previously of X".
  145. # [18:16] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: "only matches attributes in that namespace", "matches attributes in any namespace", "matches attributes in no namespace", and "matches attributes with that name" only talk about one thing each
  146. # [18:17] <SimonSapin> "matches any attribute" implies "all of them", almost "regardless of what we said before"
  147. # [18:19] * Joins: plh (plehegar@public.cloak)
  148. # [18:29] * Joins: jet (~junglecode@public.cloak)
  149. # [18:38] <krit> TabAtkins: How do I do somehting like: <dfn dfn-type=value dfn-for=blend-mode>normal</dfn> where <blend-mode> is a data type?
  150. # [18:46] <TabAtkins> dfn-for="<blend-mode>"
  151. # [18:46] <TabAtkins> The for='' attribute is currently dumber than I'd like, and just works on literal string matching.
  152. # [18:47] <TabAtkins> That is, there's no way to distinguish between something being for a property named "foo" and a value named "foo".
  153. # [18:47] <TabAtkins> I just rely on heuristics at the moment, which work pretty well.
  154. # [18:47] <TabAtkins> I have a Bikeshed branch where I'd been working on the problem, but it got complicated and then I went on vacation, so I might have to start over.
  155. # [18:48] <TabAtkins> When something like this gets complicated, it usually means I've been over-engineering, and a fresh start is a good thing. ^_^
  156. # [18:48] <TabAtkins> krit: ^^^
  157. # [18:49] <krit> TabAtkins: indeed missed it :P thanks!
  158. # [18:51] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  159. # [18:51] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
  160. # [18:54] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek)
  161. # [18:55] <krit> TabAtkins: is there a way to figure out what the following might mean? :
  162. # [18:55] <krit> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/UGWbOKMl
  163. # [18:56] <TabAtkins> Yayyy, those are html5lib errors. They show up rarely, and it's hard to track down. It generally means something invalid is going into an id.
  164. # [18:57] <TabAtkins> I've complained to gsnedders about it, but he hasn't fixed html5lib to report the errors. It's possible to hack your local html5lib to actually output the troublesome name.
  165. # [18:57] * Quits: jet (~junglecode@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  166. # [18:57] <TabAtkins> I need to figure out a better way to deal with that.
  167. # [18:57] <krit> TabAtkins: ok, so I can find the problem in one of the id attributes
  168. # [18:58] * Joins: rhauck (~Adium@public.cloak)
  169. # [18:58] <TabAtkins> It's almost certainly in one of the Bikeshed-generated ids.
  170. # [18:58] <TabAtkins> And you won't see problems in the output, because the name gets coerced to something safe.
  171. # [18:59] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: do IDs need to be XML names? I thought that was only element names, attribute names and the like, not attribute values
  172. # [19:00] <TabAtkins> I forget - I'm running on fragmented memories of the last time I had to fight html5lib about this.
  173. # [19:00] <Ms2ger> Attribute values can be anything
  174. # [19:00] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: does bikeshed generate any attr name?
  175. # [19:00] <SimonSapin> like data-{something not constant}
  176. # [19:01] <TabAtkins> Not that I recall, no.
  177. # [19:01] <krit> TabAtkins: ok, so ignore the warning should just be fine :P
  178. # [19:25] <Bert> fantasai, the blog post for css3-backgrounds is there, although it's fallen of the first page.
  179. # [19:27] * Joins: jet (~junglecode@public.cloak)
  180. # [19:33] * Quits: rhauck (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
  181. # [19:34] * Joins: rhauck (~Adium@public.cloak)
  182. # [19:35] * Joins: rhauck1 (~Adium@public.cloak)
  183. # [19:35] * Quits: rhauck (~Adium@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  184. # [19:35] * Quits: plh (plehegar@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  185. # [19:36] * Quits: jet (~junglecode@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  186. # [19:36] <krit> plinss: Thanks for fixing http://dev.w3.org/FXTF/ the lower case version doesn't work though :( http://dev.w3.org/fxtf/
  187. # [19:37] <krit> plinss: many specs use the lower case link
  188. # [19:52] <SimonSapin> fantasai: What Tab says here is what I thought we resolved on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Mar/0145.html
  189. # [20:06] * Joins: Dwight_Stegall (~YIM@public.cloak)
  190. # [20:12] * Quits: rhauck1 (~Adium@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
  191. # [20:14] * Joins: rhauck (~Adium@public.cloak)
  192. # [20:16] * Joins: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak)
  193. # [20:30] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  194. # [20:40] <liam> SimonSapin, fwiw :) in XML (and hence also polyglot XHTML) , an attribute declared to be of type ID or IDREF or IDREFS or NAMES (NMTOKEN/NMTOKENS actually) has to be a name, and xml:id's value should be a name
  195. # [20:43] <Ms2ger> Meh
  196. # [20:58] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak)
  197. # [21:10] * Quits: Dwight_Stegall (~YIM@public.cloak) ("I'm bored, time to go.")
  198. # [21:19] <plinss> krit: the lower case version works for me (I actually had the working first), what error are you seeing?
  199. # [21:19] <krit> plinss: {"error": {"message": "", "code": 404}}
  200. # [21:20] <plinss> hmm, cache issue?
  201. # [21:20] <krit> plinss: yes :P Never mind. Thanks!
  202. # [21:20] <plinss> np
  203. # [21:21] <plinss> FWIW, if you're seeing issues with dev.w3.org/fxtf/ try checking drafts.fxtf.org/ if that's working then the problem is with the proxy on dev.w3.org
  204. # [21:21] <plinss> the server that runs fxtf.org is pretty stable (same one as csswg.org, but on a different IP addr)
  205. # [21:44] <plinss> TabAtkins: astearns: Issue file generation online at http://api.csswg.org/bikeshed/
  206. # [23:04] * Joins: jet (~junglecode@public.cloak)
  207. # [23:06] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: I'll try and get through a bunch in my short holiday in April, but I really don't have time atm.
  208. # [23:07] <gsnedders> SimonSapin: IDs only need to be things that XML attribute values can be.
  209. # [23:08] <astearns> plinss: thanks - just tried it out and it worked fine
  210. # [23:20] <SimonSapin> fantasai, TabAtkins: 'width: min-content' is prefixed in Gecko as 'width: -moz-min-content'. Do you think anyone would expect 'grid-template-columns: min-content' to be prefixed as well?
  211. # [23:21] <SimonSapin> I think we shouldn’t introduce new prefixes (an the feature is behind a pref already), but I’m told some authors would expect to need prefixes and be surprised when that doesn’t work
  212. # [23:36] * Quits: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak) (adenilson)
  213. # [23:41] * liam thinks there should be a "prefix path" to use for unrecognised properties
  214. # [23:42] <SimonSapin> this is about prefixing a keyword inside a property value
  215. # [23:42] <liam> oh, read too quickly, sorry
  216. # [23:43] <liam> (although maybe the same thing applies, not sure)
  217. # [23:48] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak) ("nn")
  218. # Session Close: Fri Mar 07 00:00:01 2014

The end :)