/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2014-03-07 / end

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  201. # [04:06] <gregwhitworth> @TabAtkins are you on?
  202. # [04:11] <@liam> tap the screen a bit, I don't think he heard you :)
  203. # [04:13] <gregwhitworth> @liam I don't to become annoying to the WG in my first couple weeks ;)
  204. # [04:13] <@liam> (but if you had a specific question best just to ask it)
  205. # [04:14] <@liam> 's ok, i'm still annoying however hard i try not to be... just got for it
  206. # [04:14] <@liam> go
  207. # [04:14] <gregwhitworth> @liam I sent it to the mailing list already but was hoping to expound on it here, but it's no big deal
  208. # [04:15] <@liam> oh, on the fontface api?
  209. # [04:15] <gregwhitworth> @liam Was just trying to discern if the FontFace interface is an update to the current one or a complete duplicate of it
  210. # [04:15] <gregwhitworth> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-font-loading/
  211. # [04:15] <gregwhitworth> @liam yeah
  212. # [04:15] <@liam> yes, best just to ask a question like that and see if someone else can answer - or Tab might peek in some time later and answer
  213. # [04:15] <@liam> but only if he knows what you're asking :)
  214. # [04:15] <gregwhitworth> @liam sounds good
  215. # [04:16] <gregwhitworth> @liam thanks for the input, new to reading these specs when things aren't already cleaned up (I would peak in from time to time when I was a web dev but mainly wainted them to reach LC)
  216. # [04:16] <gregwhitworth> *waited
  217. # [04:17] <@liam> i still can't keep track of them all
  218. # [04:18] <gregwhitworth> @liam yeah, it's pretty amazing how much parrallel work is going on just in this group alone
  219. # [04:19] <@liam> 's very scary
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  297. # [19:32] <dbaron> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ac-forum/2014JanMar/0098.html has some details about TPAC 2014 planning (member-only)
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  314. # [22:05] <fantasai> TabAtkins: `http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Feb/0469.html
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  319. # [22:20] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: <counter-style> is not based on <custom-ident>. Should it?
  320. # [22:20] <TabAtkins> Yes, I haven't had the time to do it yet.
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  323. # [22:27] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: I was chatting with fantasai about <custom-ident>. Turns out, CSS 2 explicitly disallows none, inherit and initial in counter() http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css2/generate.html#x13
  324. # [22:27] <TabAtkins> We can certainly do use-based restrictions if necessary.
  325. # [22:30] <SimonSapin> fantasai, TabAtkins: I’m especially interested in Grid’s <line-names> = ( <custom-ident>* ). Do we want to make these completely unrestricted?
  326. # [22:30] <TabAtkins> I see no reason not to.
  327. # [22:31] <TabAtkins> With the caveat that they may become restricted in the future if we ever mix in some keywords.
  328. # [22:32] <TabAtkins> fantasai: http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/2873
  329. # [22:32] <SimonSapin> is there any plan to mix keywords in the middle of a paren-delimited list of line names?
  330. # [22:32] <TabAtkins> No plan to, no.
  331. # [22:32] <TabAtkins> But the future is large.
  332. # [22:32] <SimonSapin> meh
  333. # [22:33] <SimonSapin> (as opposed to next to the list, outside the parens)
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  337. # [22:35] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: what spec wordin do you think can make that happen?
  338. # [22:35] <TabAtkins> the one we agreed to.
  339. # [22:36] * TabAtkins is confused, because he thinks we had this discussion before.
  340. # [22:36] <TabAtkins> <custom-ident> in <line-names> is unrestricted *because there's nothing else currently defined in its context*.
  341. # [22:36] <SimonSapin> you and I did, but apparently the resolution was unclear at least to fantasai
  342. # [22:37] <SimonSapin> regarding CSS-wide keywords
  343. # [22:39] <TabAtkins> She's right next to me, so we can discuss this. ^_^
  344. # [22:39] <SimonSapin> please do :)
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  346. # [22:48] <fantasai> I just need someone to clear that all existing uses of custom-identifiers would be ambiguous if a global keyword were used
  347. # [22:48] <fantasai> Because right now they're categorically excluded
  348. # [22:49] <fantasai> so if we're lifting the categoric exclusion
  349. # [22:49] <fantasai> in favor of a rule
  350. # [22:49] <fantasai> I want that rule to be at least equivalent for the existing cases
  351. # [22:49] <fantasai> Does that make sense?
  352. # [22:49] <fantasai> I think we only need to clear 2.1 and Counter Styles
  353. # [22:50] * fantasai doesn't think there's other cases that need checking
  354. # [22:50] <fantasai> atm
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  359. # [22:58] <SimonSapin> Does anyone implement and expose Counter Styles?
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  361. # [23:00] <TabAtkins> Xidorn is implementing Counter Styles in FF.
  362. # [23:00] <TabAtkins> Nearly done.
  363. # [23:01] <SimonSapin> yes, but it’s not exposed to the web yet
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  365. # [23:02] <SimonSapin> so there is no web-compat issue
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  367. # [23:04] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-counter-styles/#extending-css2 is unclear what happens to counter() when there is no counter style defined with the given name
  368. # [23:05] <SimonSapin> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-lists/#propdef-list-style-type defines list-style-type to fall back to none
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  373. # [23:24] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: Good catch. I'll fix. Can you send a quick email?
  374. # [23:25] <SimonSapin> sure
  375. # [23:27] <fantasai> SimonSapin: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/generate.html#quotes-insert
  376. # [23:27] <fantasai> sorry
  377. # [23:27] <fantasai> http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/generate.html#content
  378. # [23:28] <fantasai> "The name must not be 'none', 'inherit' or 'initial'. Such a name causes the declaration to be ignored. "
  379. # [23:28] <SimonSapin> indeed
  380. # [23:34] <fantasai> For grid, you can unambiguously parse any ident as a line name in the grid-template properties
  381. # [23:35] <fantasai> SimonSapin: but when you refer to the line name, it's a top-level ident
  382. # [23:35] <fantasai> SimonSapin: so the global keywords can't effectively be used as line names anyway
  383. # [23:35] <fantasai> SimonSapin: Given that, it's better for them to be parse errors up front
  384. # [23:35] <fantasai> SimonSapin: So I don't agree that we should allow the global keywords as line names
  385. # [23:36] <fantasai> SimonSapin: And I suspect we'll run into similar problems for other cases
  386. # [23:36] <fantasai> SimonSapin: So I'd rather keep them excluded, unless a spec *explicitly* overrides Values and says they're allowed for some reason
  387. # [23:36] <SimonSapin> fantasai: with that logic, should we also exclude 'span' in <line-names>? (Since it has to be excluded in <grid-line>)
  388. # [23:36] <fantasai> SimonSapin: probably, yes :)
  389. # [23:37] <TabAtkins> I pointed out an example where a <custom-ident> *is* unambiguous with the global names (var names), but I'm not strongly against fantasai's proposal.
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  391. # [23:39] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: var() is currently defined as taking <ident>, not <custom-ident>
  392. # [23:39] <TabAtkins> Right, but that's probably because I'm dumb.
  393. # [23:39] <SimonSapin> :]
  394. # [23:39] <fantasai> because <ident> doesn't exist. :)
  395. # [23:40] <SimonSapin> it sure looks like it does http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-values-3/#ltident
  396. # [23:41] <SimonSapin> so… if 'span' is excluded from <line-names>, it’s much more complicated than « would make parsing ambiguous », I’m not sure we can write a general rule in css-values
  397. # [23:41] <fantasai> That would be because Tab made a change without asking anybody if it was a good idea.
  398. # [23:41] <fantasai> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/csswg/diff/81b3590dcf46/css-values/Overview.src.html
  399. # [23:41] <TabAtkins> I won't apologize for adding <dfn>s. ^_^
  400. # [23:42] <fantasai> We had <ident> before.
  401. # [23:42] <fantasai> We changed it to <custom-ident> for reasons.
  402. # [23:45] <fantasai> !_!
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  404. # [23:53] <krit> fantasai: When you have a bit time next week, could you take a look if your issues on CSS Masking have been addressed please? http://dev.w3.org/fxtf/css-masking-1/issues-lc-2013.html
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  406. # Session Close: Sat Mar 08 00:00:00 2014

The end :)