/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2014-04-15 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Apr 15 00:00:01 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #css
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  10. # [01:08] <TabAtkins> plinss: Could you have Shepherd start parsing http://dom.spec.whatwg.org/ ?
  11. # [01:10] <TabAtkins> plinss: Unsure whether Anne's IDL markup structure is something that Shepherd will recognize off the bat.
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  21. # [01:41] <plinss> TabAtkins: added, seemed to eat the IDL ok
  22. # [01:41] <TabAtkins> Yeah, I just wanted to verify it actually marked up the dfns correctly.
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  24. # [01:45] <plinss> well, it found 37 interfaces, 133 methods, 104 attributes…
  25. # [01:45] <TabAtkins> Sounds reasonable.
  26. # [01:45] <plinss> the IDL dfns rely a lot more on the actual IDL than the dfn markup, so I think we’re good
  27. # [01:47] <TabAtkins> Hm, there are two Document interface dfns in HTML5 apparently.
  28. # [01:48] <TabAtkins> And Bikeshed can't specify one when they're in the same document, so it just complains endlessly.
  29. # [01:50] <plinss> yeah, looks like http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/infrastructure.html#dom-document shouldn’t be a dfn
  30. # [01:51] <plinss> also interesting that section 2.2.2 says these interfaces are defined in the DOM spec, then it defines Document in section 3.1.1
  31. # [01:52] <plinss> ok, I guess that’s just an extension...
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  37. # [02:16] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Fixed the weird ToC bug where it was splitting up the entries and linking directly to terms.
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  66. # [06:16] <Hixie> TabAtkins: reference the whatwg copy, not the w3c copy :-P
  67. # [06:17] <Hixie> TabAtkins: (to reference Document you really want DOM, anyway, the interface in HTML is just a partial)
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  94. # [14:32] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: gmail thinks I’m sending spam to you :(
  95. # [14:33] <Ms2ger> Aren't you?
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  124. # [19:27] <SimonSapin> adding an SPF record didn’t help
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  128. # [19:54] <SimonSapin> looks like I messed up my SPF setup, and all the "testing" tools are terrible and did not
  129. # [19:54] <SimonSapin> did not catch this
  130. # [20:14] <TabAtkins> plinss: Yeah, why are we parsing the W3C HTML spec, anyway? I'd much prefer we dropped it and parsed the WHATWG spec instead.
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  133. # [20:30] <plinss> TabAtkins: because we’ll get flak when transitioning specs if we refer to WHATWG specs that have W3C “equivalents”
  134. # [20:31] <TabAtkins> ...and?
  135. # [20:31] <TabAtkins> We give a shit about that? The WHATWG HTML spec is better.
  136. # [20:31] <plinss> We give a shit about getting specs to REC? Yeah, we do.
  137. # [20:31] <TabAtkins> Yeah, but "flak" and "blocking" are different things.
  138. # [20:32] <TabAtkins> I'd prefer not having to cater to a few people in management's ridiculous bullshit. :/
  139. # [20:32] <plinss> Well, read “getting flak” as “we will have to change it in order to pulish to TR space anyway”
  140. # [20:32] <TabAtkins> That's crap. :/
  141. # [20:33] <plinss> not my call
  142. # [20:33] <plinss> Not getting in to a W3C vs WHATWG thing, but the answer to issues like this it to file bugs on the W3C HTML5 spec to make it better
  143. # [20:33] <TabAtkins> Is this really people just being jerks (we *are* allowed to ref WHATWG specs, despite persistent noise to the contrary from some jerks), or some actual problem?
  144. # [20:33] <TabAtkins> That's... really not the answer.
  145. # [20:34] <plinss> It’s an actual problem. If the WHATWG has an equivanelt patent policy then it wouldn;t be, but some members actually do care about not getting sued.
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  147. # [20:38] <TabAtkins> This is why I never try to get my specs out of CR.
  148. # [20:38] <plinss> Ah, so THAT’s why… :-)
  149. # [20:39] <TabAtkins> It actually is. Fixing bugs in REC is a giant waste of time with busywork, and all this political nonsense is worthless for me to spend my time on.
  150. # [20:41] <plinss> So, having tests and fixing bugs in the spec isn’t valuable? (or is it just the overhaed of doing that?)
  151. # [20:41] <TabAtkins> The overhead.
  152. # [20:43] <plinss> well, the AB is actually working on that
  153. # [20:44] <plinss> but I agree it’s a problem
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  160. # [21:30] <TabAtkins> plinss: How about we parse the WHATWG specs, and I put in a Bikeshed switch that prefers WHATWG for unofficial drafts, and W3C for officials?
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  164. # [21:38] <plinss> TabAtkins: not sure that’s going to be all that helpful in the long run, you’ll mask issues like the Document dfn until people try to gen a TR version…
  165. # [21:38] <TabAtkins> I'm okay with that, in return for the ED versions being actually useful.
  166. # [21:39] <plinss> Let me think on it
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  172. # [22:20] <TabAtkins> plinss: Note, for example, this recent message from Ojan: https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/#!topic/blink-dev/Vhlhx5cAXzI
  173. # [22:20] <TabAtkins> We (Blink) *exclusively* look at WHATWG specs, if there's a choice.
  174. # [22:21] <TabAtkins> Patent/politics bullshit aside, pointing to WHATWG specs would be a definite win for us in terms of engineers not making mistakes.
  175. # [22:24] <liam> sadly, patents are a real problem and we can't ignore them (CSS would be in deep doodoo today probably were it not for the W3C patent policy - we had someone who patented a whole slew of formatting stuff "essential' to implementing XSL-FO, and because XSL-FO used CSS we're OK)
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  177. # [22:29] <TabAtkins> I understand that, but we're balancing "people might sue for patent infringment" against "engineers are actively making mistakes by following the wrong spec".
  178. # [22:30] <TabAtkins> Engineers implementing by accidentally/unknowingly following the forked unupdated W3C version of a WHATWG spec has caused us trouble multiple times.
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  180. # [22:33] <liam> yeah, (sigh) I know there are problems.
  181. # [22:33] <TabAtkins> Completely avoidable problems caused by people being bad actors.
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  183. # [22:34] <TabAtkins> (Forking a spec and then not staying up to date with upstream is an incredibly dick move.)
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The end :)