/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2014-05-08 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu May 08 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #css
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  5. # [00:52] <dauwhe> fantasai: does this look like a reasonable approach for section heads that were in the previous WD? http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-gcpm/#former-wd-sections
  6. # [01:14] <astearns> TabAtkins: fantasai: given collapsed flex items and anonymous non-displayed flex items made of whitespace, would it make sense to say that flex lines must contain at least one *displayed* flex item, or am I being too pedantic?
  7. # [01:20] <liam> darktears, I think it very sensible
  8. # [01:22] <liam> although I'm not sure about linking to some of the whatwg documents - the whatwg specs are probably more volatile than the w3c ones, so maybe just "This is no longer part of this document" is better.
  9. # [01:23] <Hixie> volatile how? more up to date?
  10. # [01:27] <liam> Hixie, often indeed
  11. # [01:28] <Hixie> yeah we definitely wouldn't want to link to something more up to date, that might help people
  12. # [01:28] <liam> no, we should link to irrelevant things to confuse them :-) but that's not the point I was failing to make
  13. # [01:29] <liam> if the w3c document will end up on /TR and staying there for several years unchanged, the links to specific sections in the whatwg docs may also go bad over time - and in the meantime the particular items here will probably be in a newer ED of this same document
  14. # [01:30] <Hixie> why wouldn't that be true of the links to the dev.w3.org pages too?
  15. # [01:30] <Hixie> that doesn't seem specific to the whatwg links.
  16. # [01:30] <Hixie> and the true problem there is that the TR/ pages don't change, not that the other pages do.
  17. # [01:30] <liam> it might be except that we can do the same thing in those documents that's being done here
  18. # [01:31] <Hixie> so can the whatwg docs
  19. # [01:31] <liam> but it might also be that whatwg could do that
  20. # [01:31] <liam> heh
  21. # [01:31] <liam> in which case it's probably fine
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  36. # [05:15] <dauwhe> liam: I'm already linking to whatwg CSS books, so it doesn't seem like a big deal to add a few more links, and it's likely helpful for readers.
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  38. # [05:29] <liam> dauwhe, yeah, i'm not opposed to it in general, just cautious in this example, thinking about when the document ends up on /TR; but if whatwg has a similar fragment-id policy that'd prolly work too.
  39. # [05:32] <dauwhe> liam: I'm a bit concerned that all my links to w3c stuff are to EDs. Most of the specs that have "adopted" bits of gcpm haven't had recent WDs.
  40. # [05:33] <liam> CSS WG hasn't been good at moving things to TR, unfortunately. Well, not all participants see that as a goal.
  41. # [05:33] <liam> I'm more used to the XML world where we get governments & organizations who won't adopt things until they are Recommendations
  42. # [05:35] <dauwhe> paged media could use a new WD; that would really help.
  43. # [05:36] <liam> yes
  44. # [05:36] <dauwhe> maybe we need some "REC or bust" bumper stickers ^_^
  45. # [05:37] <liam> well, partly we (W3C) need to make it easier to get there, partly need to change perceptions that it's hard, slow, low value
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  80. # [12:46] <zcorpan> TabAtkins: re calc() my position is the same as SimonSapin that it's best to require space after keyword. it's a quirk but overall it's better than what we have now i think
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  89. # [14:41] <SimonSapin> given that we have lots of property names and keywords that contain dashes, I don’t think it’s too surprising that you have to separate minus signs from keywords
  90. # [14:52] <SimonSapin> fantasai: Why did we defer :local-link? The f2f minutes have exactly one relevant line http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/css/20140128#l-281
  91. # [14:57] <SimonSapin> CC’ing you on the list
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  96. # [15:52] <astearns> SimonSapin: zcorpan: not sure authors see a difference between keywords and units. Hard to explain 2em-2px is OK but auto-2px is not
  97. # [15:53] <SimonSapin> "Because we made it so" :)
  98. # [15:54] <SimonSapin> More seriously, that’s a good point. But this proposal still seems better than any alternative I’ve seen so far
  99. # [15:56] <astearns> I don't think it's terrible, but I still prefer consistency - requiring a space always seems slightly better than requiring a space only in some circumstances that will trip people up
  100. # [15:56] <astearns> but at this point it's only a slight preference on my part
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  132. # [20:37] <TabAtkins> So to be sure, the proposal is to:
  133. # [20:37] <TabAtkins> 1. Change Syntax to no longer allow dash in the unit.
  134. # [20:39] <TabAtkins> 2. Change calc() syntax a la <anb> to allow mashing together two values without a sign between them, as long as their repr starts with + or -.
  135. # [20:39] <TabAtkins> (This would mean that we can't ever allow custom units, at least not with the same syntax as we have for all the other custom things.)
  136. # [20:40] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: yes, and remove the whitespace requirement in calc()
  137. # [20:40] <TabAtkins> That's what I meant by (2).
  138. # [20:40] <SimonSapin> ok
  139. # [20:40] <SimonSapin> we could be more subtle and only exclude dash followed by a digit
  140. # [20:40] <TabAtkins> The important part of removing the ws requirements is decoding the token combinations we now allow.
  141. # [20:40] <SimonSapin> in units
  142. # [20:40] <TabAtkins> Hmmmm
  143. # [20:40] <TabAtkins> That would make me happier.
  144. # [20:41] <SimonSapin> it’s not even observable (yet?)
  145. # [20:41] <TabAtkins> There are prefixed units in some impls.
  146. # [20:42] <TabAtkins> Okay, limiting the unit parsing change to just disallow a - followed by a digit makes me much happier about this.
  147. # [20:42] <TabAtkins> Still unhappy about needing a space to separate keywords, but maybe it's obvious enough to work.
  148. # [20:43] <TabAtkins> So I can accept this change now.
  149. # [20:43] <TabAtkins> (I would have made it before, but been unhappy with it.)
  150. # [20:43] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: We deferred :local-link() because there were still sufficient open questions, and not enough impl interest.
  151. # [20:44] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: what questions?
  152. # [20:44] <TabAtkins> Difference between example.com/foo and example.com/foo/, behavior of the N component when there were less than N components in the url.
  153. # [20:45] <TabAtkins> Worries that url component decomposition wasn't powerful enough.
  154. # [20:45] <SimonSapin> I thought we had answers to these questions, but I suppose lack of impl interest is enough to defer
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  171. # [23:50] <astearns> TabAtkins: s/Algorithm/Formula/ in the 9.7.2 heading, so we can have the Flex Factor Focused Formula
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The end :)