/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2014-08-06 / end

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  2. # Session Ident: #css
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  87. # [15:05] <zcorpan> hmm. why is http://wiki.csswg.org/planning/sophia-2014 locked?
  88. # [15:05] <zcorpan> Bert: ^
  89. # [15:31] <SimonSapin> I apparently can edit it
  90. # [15:33] <zcorpan> there is a "logout" button so i guess i'm logged in
  91. # [15:40] <SimonSapin> plinss: are you admin on the wiki?
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  93. # [15:50] <Bert> I'm editing one section of the wiki page. Does that lock the whole page?
  94. # [16:22] <zcorpan> i tried to edit the table of people attending
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  96. # [16:23] <Bert> Anyway, I'm not editing now, the page should be unlocked.
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  98. # [16:40] <zcorpan> k now i could edit
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  102. # [17:42] * glazou changes topic to 'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Aug/0053.html'
  103. # [17:42] * glazou changes topic to 'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Aug/0053.html'
  104. # [17:42] * Joins: Zakim (zakim@public.cloak)
  105. # [17:42] * Joins: RRSAgent (rrsagent@public.cloak)
  106. # [17:42] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/08/06-css-irc
  107. # [17:42] <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
  108. # [17:42] <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 14 minutes
  109. # [17:42] <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
  110. # [17:42] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, glazou
  111. # [17:42] <glazou> hi there
  112. # [17:42] <glazou> Zakim, code?
  113. # [17:42] <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), glazou
  114. # [17:47] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
  115. # [17:47] <Zakim> + +1.415.832.aaaa
  116. # [17:49] * Joins: abinader (~sid21713@public.cloak)
  117. # [17:49] <Zakim> +fantasai
  118. # [17:52] <Zakim> +dauwhe
  119. # [17:52] <Zakim> + +33.1.39.21.aabb
  120. # [17:52] <glazou> Zakim, aabb is me
  121. # [17:52] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
  122. # [17:52] <Zakim> +plinss
  123. # [17:53] <Zakim> + +1.415.832.aacc
  124. # [17:53] <krit> Zakim, aacc is me
  125. # [17:53] <Zakim> +krit; got it
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  129. # [17:54] <Zakim> +dael
  130. # [17:55] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
  131. # [17:55] <dael> ScribeNick: dael
  132. # [17:55] * Joins: alex_antennahouse (~4a60ed47@public.cloak)
  133. # [17:55] <glazou> Zakim, [IPcaller] has alex_antennahouse
  134. # [17:55] <Zakim> +alex_antennahouse; got it
  135. # [17:55] <Zakim> +??P12
  136. # [17:55] <florian> Zakim, I am ??P12
  137. # [17:55] <Zakim> +florian; got it
  138. # [17:55] <Zakim> +??P13
  139. # [17:56] <Zakim> +Stearns
  140. # [17:56] * astearns_ is now known as astearns
  141. # [17:56] <Zakim> +??P19
  142. # [17:56] <SimonSapin> Zakim, I am ??P19
  143. # [17:56] <Zakim> +SimonSapin; got it
  144. # [17:56] <Zakim> + +1.631.398.aadd
  145. # [17:56] <Zakim> +dbaron
  146. # [17:56] <Zakim> -fantasai
  147. # [17:56] <Zakim> +TabAtkins
  148. # [17:57] <Zakim> +??P24
  149. # [17:57] * Joins: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak)
  150. # [17:57] <Zakim> +??P27
  151. # [17:57] <adenilson> Zakim: ??P27 is me.
  152. # [17:57] * Zakim hears ??P27's hand up
  153. # [17:57] * Zakim sees ??P27 on the speaker queue
  154. # [17:57] <Bert> zakim, P27 is me
  155. # [17:57] <Zakim> sorry, Bert, I do not recognize a party named 'P27'
  156. # [17:58] <glazou> Zakim, ??P27 is adenilson
  157. # [17:58] <Zakim> +adenilson; got it
  158. # [17:58] <Bert> zakim, ??P27 is me
  159. # [17:58] <Zakim> I already had ??P27 as adenilson, Bert
  160. # [17:58] <Zakim> +fantasai
  161. # [17:58] <adenilson> LOL! That is funny.
  162. # [17:58] <Zakim> +SteveZ
  163. # [17:58] <TabAtkins> zakim, mute fantasai
  164. # [17:58] <Zakim> fantasai should now be muted
  165. # [17:58] * dbaron Zakim, who is noisy?
  166. # [17:58] <TabAtkins> zakim, unmute fantasai
  167. # [17:58] <Zakim> fantasai should no longer be muted
  168. # [17:58] * Zakim dbaron, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.415.832.aaaa (1%), glazou (13%), ??P24 (35%), fantasai (6%)
  169. # [17:59] <dbaron> Zakim, mute ??P24
  170. # [17:59] <glazou> Zakim, mute ??P24
  171. # [17:59] <Zakim> ??P24 should now be muted
  172. # [17:59] <TabAtkins> zakim, mute p24
  173. # [17:59] <Zakim> ??P24 should now be muted
  174. # [17:59] <Zakim> sorry, TabAtkins, I do not know which phone connection belongs to p24
  175. # [17:59] <Zakim> -??P24
  176. # [17:59] * Bert to find out who you are, try 40# on the phone keypad. It'll show "XYZ's hand down"
  177. # [17:59] * Joins: smfr (~smfr@public.cloak)
  178. # [17:59] <dbaron> Zakim, adenilson is Bert
  179. # [17:59] <Zakim> +Bert; got it
  180. # [17:59] * TabAtkins didn't know that.
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  183. # [17:59] <Zakim> +??P24
  184. # [17:59] <Zakim> +smfr
  185. # [18:00] <dbaron> Zakim, mute ??24
  186. # [18:00] <Zakim> sorry, dbaron, I do not know which phone connection belongs to ??24
  187. # [18:00] <dbaron> Zakim, mute ??P24
  188. # [18:00] <Zakim> ??P24 should now be muted
  189. # [18:00] <adenilson> Zakim, ??P24 is me.
  190. # [18:00] <Zakim> +adenilson; got it
  191. # [18:00] <dael> glazou: Let's start guys
  192. # [18:00] <dael> glazou: As usual, extra items on the agenda? I have 2
  193. # [18:00] <Zakim> + +1.603.821.aaee
  194. # [18:00] <dael> florian: I have a brief comment. Just wanted to comment about the upcoming F2F wiki. There isn't much about agenda or participation details
  195. # [18:00] * dauwhe it takes DPUB ten minutes to get started with a call
  196. # [18:00] * Joins: murakami (~769ad103@public.cloak)
  197. # [18:00] <dael> glazou: We should start putting items there, agreed.
  198. # [18:00] * Joins: AndreyR (~AndreyR@public.cloak)
  199. # [18:01] * fantasai could someon query paste me the agenda?
  200. # [18:01] <dael> glazou: My two, first is the new process. It's live and we have to decide the new CR exit criteria. What do we do with existing CR specs. Do we repub under new process?
  201. # [18:01] <Zakim> +glenn
  202. # [18:01] <SimonSapin> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Aug/0053.html
  203. # [18:01] <florian> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Aug/0053.html
  204. # [18:01] <glazou> https://www.w3.org/wiki/ProcessTransition2014
  205. # [18:01] * Joins: gregwhitworth (~gregwhitworth@public.cloak)
  206. # [18:01] * smfr agenda is in the /topic
  207. # [18:01] <dael> glazou: The document is this URL. That's the transition doc. It has a section about the main changes. I suggest everyone reads.
  208. # [18:01] <dael> glazou: Have people had a chance to year this.
  209. # [18:01] <dael> fantasai: I have I read it a while ago.
  210. # [18:02] <dael> glazou: Others?
  211. # [18:02] <adenilson> nope.
  212. # [18:02] <TabAtkins> read it
  213. # [18:02] <dael> seveal: nope.
  214. # [18:02] * Joins: antenna2 (~antenna@public.cloak)
  215. # [18:02] <dael> glazou: Let's put an action on everyone to read for next week.
  216. # [18:02] <Zakim> +hober
  217. # [18:02] * krit topic for F2F?
  218. # [18:02] <dael> Action everyone read the new process doc
  219. # [18:02] * trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
  220. # [18:02] <trackbot> Error finding 'everyone'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/users>.
  221. # [18:02] <Zakim> -hober
  222. # [18:02] <dael> glazou: This is poss for F2F, but with the action for now there's no excuse not to have it by Sept.
  223. # [18:03] * krit agree with fantasai
  224. # [18:03] <Zakim> +hober
  225. # [18:03] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  226. # [18:03] <Zakim> +??P51
  227. # [18:03] <dael> fantasai: I think we should transtion to new process as we pub spec. If we republish a CR we should do it into the new process.
  228. # [18:03] <Zakim> -hober
  229. # [18:03] <abinader> Zakim, ??P51 is me
  230. # [18:03] <Zakim> +abinader; got it
  231. # [18:03] <gregwhitworth> Zakim Microsoft is me
  232. # [18:03] * dbaron Zakim, mute abinader
  233. # [18:03] <dael> glazou: I'd live everyone to read the new process.
  234. # [18:03] * Zakim abinader should now be muted
  235. # [18:03] <TabAtkins> I agree with fantasai too.
  236. # [18:03] * Ms2ger tut tut, abinader :)
  237. # [18:03] <abinader> Ms2ger: o/ !
  238. # [18:03] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
  239. # [18:03] <Bert> +1
  240. # [18:03] <krit> +1 for John
  241. # [18:03] * fantasai yay!
  242. # [18:03] <SimonSapin> +1
  243. # [18:03] <dael> glazou: Second is about jdaggett. He's rejoining as you saw, but won't be at F2F. He'd like to become editor of Fonts again and req agreement from the group. I don't thnk it's a problem.
  244. # [18:03] * dbaron assumes abinader was the source of the echo
  245. # [18:04] <dael> TabAtkins: I say yes because otherwise I'd have to take over
  246. # [18:04] <SteveZ> +1 for John being editor
  247. # [18:04] <dael> glazou: Any obj?
  248. # [18:04] <florian> +1
  249. # [18:04] <adenilson> +1.
  250. # [18:04] <leaverou> +1
  251. # [18:04] <dael> RESOLVED: John Daggett is reinstated as Font spec editor
  252. # [18:04] <dael> Topic: Animation Issues
  253. # [18:04] <dael> dbaron: I think we can save that for next week.
  254. # [18:04] <dael> glazou: No problem.
  255. # [18:04] <dael> Topic: CSS Color Classes
  256. # [18:04] * tantek is lurking
  257. # [18:05] <dael> TabAtkins: I haven't read minutes from last week. Did we discuss last week?
  258. # [18:05] <dbaron> dbaron: sylvain was going to start a thread, and said he would do so tomorrow
  259. # [18:05] * tantek is wondering if there is any new bureaucracy this week.
  260. # [18:05] <glazou> tantek, ?
  261. # [18:05] <leaverou> is here :)
  262. # [18:05] <dael> TabAtkins: So no. In that case, leaverou hasn't posted the counter proposal, so I say we keep the first option until later, I'll continue pinging her, she's busy
  263. # [18:05] * tantek always wonders this each week with a w3c wg :)
  264. # [18:06] <dael> TabAtkins: We can doing the naming of RGB Color Class. As I said, the name RGBColor is taking by a DOM level 2 style interface, one of those terrible ones. I don't think it matters in the slightest.
  265. # [18:06] * Joins: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak)
  266. # [18:06] <dbaron> I've seen some pages using the class, but I don't remember seeing them use the name
  267. # [18:06] <dael> TabAtkins: I'd be surprised to find 1 in 1 mill pages using this. I'd be surprised to find one. I think it's fine for us to steal the name as browsers never impl or in Blink's case halfway
  268. # [18:06] * Quits: tommyjtl (~tommyjtl@public.cloak) ("brb")
  269. # [18:07] <dael> TabAtkins: WE can renme to something else and have a note in the spec saying we're stealing this name.
  270. # [18:07] * Joins: MaRakow (~MaRakow@public.cloak)
  271. # [18:07] <krit> was me
  272. # [18:07] <dael> s/renme/rename
  273. # [18:07] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  274. # [18:07] <krit> Is there a use counter in Blink for it
  275. # [18:07] <MaRakow> zakim, [Microsoft.a] is me
  276. # [18:07] <Zakim> +MaRakow; got it
  277. # [18:08] <dael> TabAtkins: There is no use counter in blink for it, but I am 100% confident in the results. If you think it's needed we can measure, but I think it'll be below the noise threshhold
  278. # [18:08] <Zakim> +hober
  279. # [18:08] <dael> TabAtkins: I don't believe we report below 1 in a million
  280. # [18:08] <dael> glazou: Do we really need RGB Color and HSL Color? Can we have Color?
  281. # [18:08] * Quits: smfr (~smfr@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  282. # [18:09] <dael> leaverou: That was what the counter was going to be. The main problem is...It was going to be having RGB in the same color class instead of sep classes, but there's a name collision.
  283. # [18:09] * Joins: smfr (~smfr@public.cloak)
  284. # [18:09] <Zakim> +krit.a
  285. # [18:09] <Zakim> -krit
  286. # [18:09] <dael> leaverou: TabAtkins and I discussed on IRC, If we do HSB there's a saturation issue. If we use the whole word, saturation is the same name, but different meanings.
  287. # [18:10] <dael> leaverou: That's one of the reasons I don't have a counter is because I don't have a solution.
  288. # [18:10] <dael> glazou: I'm trying to think as a web desiner. A color is a color and you're expressing in different units. I don't see the point of seperating.
  289. # [18:10] <dael> TabAtkins: So we need an extra type whose sole purpose is to diff between HSL and HSB.
  290. # [18:10] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@public.cloak)
  291. # [18:11] <dael> fantasai: I don't think a type is right, I think you needs sep functions with sep names.
  292. # [18:11] <dael> fantasai: You may jsut have HSL sat. and HSB sat.
  293. # [18:11] <dael> TabAtkins: That's worse. It's verbose and inconsistant. Nothing else will be tagged. I think it's redi. to have RGB Red.
  294. # [18:11] <SimonSapin> color.rgb.r?
  295. # [18:11] <dael> glazou: I suggested for cleanness of proposal and because it solved naming issue iwth DOM.
  296. # [18:12] * dbaron wonders if we're doing HSV, HWB, or both?
  297. # [18:12] <dael> TabAtkins: I don't think the name is important. I have other reasons why I don't want to merge. I'd prefer to give them in an e-mail because they're long, but name collision is one reason I think it's the way to go, but there's at least 2 other important.
  298. # [18:12] <Bert> (That was also my main question on reading the proposal: why 4 classes instead of just 1?)
  299. # [18:12] <dael> TabAtkins: I'd rather wait until there's a serious proposal.
  300. # [18:12] <leaverou> dbaron: we currently have HWB in the ED, but it's possible HSV will be added in the future
  301. # [18:12] <dbaron> SimonSapin: We could have color.rgb.r so there's an intermediate object
  302. # [18:13] <dael> SimonSapin: I typed a prop on IRC.
  303. # [18:13] <dael> TabAtkins: Can someone raise this in the ML so I can raise obj in long form text?
  304. # [18:13] <leaverou> agreed this will be better discussed in the ML
  305. # [18:13] <glazou> +1
  306. # [18:13] <leaverou> SimonSapin: +1
  307. # [18:14] <dael> liam: For everything that happens in RGB space, the CYMK part bothers me because for every other coordinate system it's the same, but it's not that with CYMK
  308. # [18:14] <dael> TabAtkins: I think you'd have to make it so that each class rep different syntax for each color space. CMYK and RGB
  309. # [18:14] * dbaron is now known as dbaron-away
  310. # [18:14] <dael> liam: I'm not sure I'm comfortable with having a conversion between RGB and CYMK
  311. # [18:15] <dael> TabAtkins: WE have that problem with device CMYK. Right now if the browser has knowledge of conversion it uses that, elsewise it uses naive
  312. # [18:15] * leaverou fwiw, I think the current spec treats CMYK/printing as a second class citizen, and SimonSapin’s concerns are very valid
  313. # [18:15] <glazou> s/liam/Florian
  314. # [18:15] * dbaron-away is now known as dbaron
  315. # [18:15] * Joins: smfr_ (~smfr@public.cloak)
  316. # [18:15] <dael> florian: Yes, but that is using things beyond the syntax level. this is just introduced for syntax reasons. Now we're going beyond syntax and using color spaces. You don't allow it to do the smart thing
  317. # [18:15] <dael> glazou: Let's take this back to the ML and move on with the agenda.
  318. # [18:16] <dael> florian: So put this on the list?
  319. # [18:16] <dael> TabAtkins: Yes please.
  320. # [18:16] <dael> Topic: Brand Color
  321. # [18:16] <dael> glazou: TabAtkins you said something on the ML?
  322. # [18:16] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Jul/0131.html
  323. # [18:16] <dael> TabAtkins: Someone said they can take this?
  324. # [18:16] * Quits: smfr (~smfr@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  325. # [18:16] * smfr_ is now known as smfr
  326. # [18:17] <dael> gregwhitworth: I was going to speak to what it was. We've been approach by windows phone to add an accent color and we look at other phones that may have this. We think there should be a broad concensus. It's not really a highlight, which was depicated. We were looking for what does the WG feel the best place for this is. We'll need something.
  327. # [18:18] <dael> TabAtkins: I'm not 100% clear on use. Some examples of how this is used in an application, that would be cool. I don't get it right now.
  328. # [18:18] <Zakim> -smfr
  329. # [18:18] <dbaron> A generic accent color is a bit hard to use in combination with other colors since you don't know what other foregrounds/backgrounds will work with it.
  330. # [18:18] <dael> gregwhitworth: I can provide that. It's system color, but that's depicated. You're setting an accent, so you're doing a theme on the desktop. Initially we were going to say apperence, but that's depicated too. WE're looking a place to stick a color.
  331. # [18:19] <Zakim> +smfr
  332. # [18:19] <dael> TabAtkins: This is why I need examples. I can imagine several different ways to do it, but it depends on what you're doing with it. Color might not be best because you might need light and dark.
  333. # [18:19] <liam> [liam is not on the call - regrets, sorry - at Balisage conference in Washington DC, USA]
  334. # [18:19] <dael> glazou: What you said sounds similr to CSS system colors we had in the past. We retired because eventually there wasn't enough to do with that.
  335. # [18:19] <dael> TabAtkins: That's why I want to get past the abstract.
  336. # [18:19] * Joins: smfr_ (~smfr@public.cloak)
  337. # [18:19] <dael> gregwhitworth: I'll follow up on the thread with examples.
  338. # [18:20] <dael> Topic: Transform as a shorthand
  339. # [18:20] * Zakim dael, you typed too many words without commas; I suspect you forgot to start with 'to ...'
  340. # [18:20] <dael> TabAtkins: I post a summary on the list about an hour ago.
  341. # [18:20] <dael> TabAtkins: Adding 3 prop, transform, rotte and scale. Syntax is similar to the functions and impl in a similar way to transform origin.
  342. # [18:20] <dael> TabAtkins: In particular there are pre-pended to the list as tranlsate rotate scale order.
  343. # [18:21] <dael> TabAtkins: After the transform-origin business.
  344. # [18:21] <dael> TabAtkins: That's basically it.
  345. # [18:21] <dael> florian: Does your prop have the transform-origin business?
  346. # [18:21] * dbaron notes that "after" vs. "before" is ambiguous depending on whether you're using row vectors or column vectors...
  347. # [18:21] <smfr_> s/florian/smfr
  348. # [18:21] <dael> TabAtkins: Yes. They're not required there, we can jsut say they use transform-origin, but I think it's nice to have the sperable.
  349. # [18:22] <dael> fantasai: There will be lots of cases where you'll want to change the origin.
  350. # [18:22] <dael> TabAtkins: Yes, As I said these should be short hands of original divs.
  351. # [18:22] <dael> TabAtkins: So translate would be XY and Z. So they're useful to cascade sep. If I'm doing several rotations around a no-default access, that's useful.
  352. # [18:23] <dael> glazou: Other opinions?
  353. # [18:23] <dael> Bert: I'm skeptical to be honest. Maybe more time and talk at the F2F?
  354. # [18:23] <glazou> s/Bert/krit
  355. # [18:23] <dael> TabAtkins: We've talked about htis for 2 or 3 weeks, but the F2F is an okay delay.
  356. # [18:23] * Quits: smfr (~smfr@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  357. # [18:23] <dael> krit: I think two more weeks is okay.
  358. # [18:23] <dael> TabAtkins: I'm not saying it's unreasonable.
  359. # [18:24] <SimonSapin> dbaron, my experience with implementing transforms is randomly swapping matrix multiplication order until it looks like other implementations
  360. # [18:24] <dael> smfr: I think Apple feeling is this is an unnes complication. We won't be too upset if it happens, but I obj to splitting into sep properties. We've resisted that in other places. I don't protest the simple, but I don't want to break them into more longhands.
  361. # [18:25] * Joins: smfr (~smfr@public.cloak)
  362. # [18:25] <dael> TabAtkins: Well, background-position that we resisted breaking, two browsers broke it into independant X and Y because aithors wanted that. I don't see a difference between those.
  363. # [18:25] * fantasai is happy to take this to F2F,would prefer people focussed on krit's request for reviewing L1
  364. # [18:25] <dael> krit: I think that's a bad example because that was partly from impl details.
  365. # [18:25] <dael> marakow: I think there's huge details where it's different
  366. # [18:26] * Joins: rhauck (~rhauck@public.cloak)
  367. # [18:26] <dael> glazou: It appears this still needs more discussion. The scope of the prop...everything. We need more to make a decision and there's an objection from Apple.
  368. # [18:26] * fantasai notes the main use case for splitting bgpos was image sorites,which is a hack
  369. # [18:26] <dael> glazou: fantasai, you say you want it as F2F item?
  370. # [18:26] <MaRakow> s/I think there's huge details where it's different/Split background properties have been pretty painful as it introduces a lot of complexity and a huge test matrix/
  371. # [18:26] <dael> fantasai: I think it's fine to bring this up at the F2F. I'd rather people focus on Krit's request to review level 1 and that's the same people.
  372. # [18:26] <adenilson> +1
  373. # [18:27] <dael> glazou: Other opinions?
  374. # [18:27] <dael> glazou: Do people agree with fantasai?
  375. # [18:27] * TabAtkins The use-case was a hack, but the reasoning behind the use-case (wanting to position things according to a grid, where you want to write X+Y rules rather than X*Y rules).
  376. # [18:27] <dael> Krit: No obj to the priorities.
  377. # [18:27] <dael> glazou: let's do as Krit wants and continue working on the other proposal. I don't feel this is entirely ready, even afte r the discussion.
  378. # [18:27] <dael> TabAtkins: I'm fine with review, but it's ready to be done.
  379. # [18:28] <dael> glazou: We need more than an e-mail for the proposal.
  380. # [18:28] <dael> TabAtkins: What do you mean?
  381. # [18:28] <dael> glazou: A document or section? A changes section?
  382. # [18:28] <dbaron> presumably the proposal is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Jul/0315.html ?
  383. # [18:28] <dael> TabAtkins: The entire prop is pretty complete in the e-mail. I can write it in the visual style
  384. # [18:28] * Quits: smfr_ (~smfr@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  385. # [18:28] <dael> ??: Is this to go in transforms 1?
  386. # [18:28] <glazou> s/??/smfr
  387. # [18:29] <dael> TabAtkins: I won't do anything that means there will be objectiosn to spec level. It can go whereever as long as it get in somewhere.
  388. # [18:29] <dael> krit: Having a more spec looking doc might help the review. With examples. It's maybe asking a lot, but just reading an e-mail can be hard.
  389. # [18:29] <dael> TabAtkins: I'll put something together.
  390. # [18:30] <dael> fantasai: I think this would be level 2. Maybe create a WD of level 2 for this? I don't want to put a time limit because the same people need to spend time reviewing level 1.
  391. # [18:30] <dael> TabAtkins: I don't think every object being done separete is useful, but I don't care what level it goes in.
  392. # [18:30] * Joins: smfr_ (~smfr@public.cloak)
  393. # [18:30] <dael> fantasai: If you want to draw up a doc, get permission to put it on dev
  394. # [18:30] <dael> TabAtkins: It's on my github
  395. # [18:31] <dael> glazou: So when it's pub, will google impl right away?
  396. # [18:31] <dael> TabAtkins: No
  397. # [18:31] <dael> glazou: I want to make sure this is on the mornal rec track.
  398. # [18:31] <dael> TabAtkins: THis is a personal proposal.
  399. # [18:31] <dael> glazou: Then I have no obj for level 2
  400. # [18:31] <dael> krit: Let's go on with an unoffical draft first.
  401. # [18:31] <dael> TabAtkins: Agreed.
  402. # [18:31] <dael> TabAtkins: Levels isn't relevent yet.
  403. # [18:31] <dael> glazou: Everyone agrees? No obj?
  404. # [18:32] <dael> fantasai: Unoffical draft, what will you call it?
  405. # [18:32] <dael> TabAtkins: I'll call it my proposal on my github
  406. # [18:32] <dael> fantasai: I'd pref it doesn't put on github. We're writing proposals.
  407. # [18:32] * Quits: smfr (~smfr@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  408. # [18:32] <dael> TabAtkins: I'm doing e-mail attachments.
  409. # [18:32] <dael> glazou: We used to be able to store prop on w3c. Bert and I sent proposals and I think TabAtkins Should be able to
  410. # [18:33] <dael> TabAtkins: We stopped when I got obj to putting proposals on that.
  411. # [18:33] <dael> glazou: Not on dev, it was on the WG stage.
  412. # [18:33] <dael> TabAtkins: Oh. None of have that permission
  413. # [18:33] <glazou> s/stage/page
  414. # [18:33] <gregwhitworth> I like GH myself, maybe a W3 GH repo?
  415. # [18:33] <dael> fantasai: That is annoying. We should have a way to put everything on dev that's unoffical.
  416. # [18:33] <dael> glazou: Everyone fine witht hat?
  417. # [18:33] <gregwhitworth> Then it gets pulled in automatically?
  418. # [18:33] <dael> krit: No obj to dev or github
  419. # [18:34] <dael> ???: On w3c.org, how do we do that? Through CBS?
  420. # [18:34] <dael> glazou: I suggest TabAtkins uses his github.
  421. # [18:34] <SimonSapin> s/???/SimonSapin/
  422. # [18:34] <SimonSapin> s/CBS/CVS/
  423. # [18:34] * krit geocities!
  424. # [18:34] <dael> Topic: Ruby
  425. # [18:34] * TabAtkins is gonna put it on his wikipedia talk page.
  426. # [18:34] <glazou> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Jul/0620.html
  427. # [18:35] <dael> glazou: WE have two topics. First was by Boris about leading and trailing whitespace rules.
  428. # [18:35] <Zakim> -smfr
  429. # [18:35] <dael> fantasai: I think that will have to stay on the ML, I haven't gotten to it yet. Unless someone has interest on the call.
  430. # [18:35] <dael> dbaron: I think they're both better on the ML.
  431. # [18:35] * Joins: smfr (~smfr@public.cloak)
  432. # [18:35] <dael> SteveZ: I was confused from Boris' example why the base isn't jsut text and whitespace is disappearing.
  433. # [18:36] <dael> fantasai: There's special handling in Ruby to clear what you're use of indentation. We have a bunch of rules to generate anon boxes and I need to sit down and find the right way.
  434. # [18:36] <dael> TabAtkins: Ruby bases and text are on different lines and there's rule about putting things for white space.
  435. # [18:36] <dael> fantasai: There's rules about anon box and white space discarding and I need to sit down and find a fix.
  436. # [18:37] <dael> fantasai: If you care about white space at a higher level, read the spec and send comments.
  437. # [18:37] <dael> SteveZ: I've tried, but get confused between elements and boxes
  438. # [18:37] <dael> fantasai: They should all be boxes
  439. # [18:37] <dael> SteveZ: White space is an element thing
  440. # [18:37] <dael> fantasai: content thing
  441. # [18:37] <dael> SteveZ: But they're element. They're nodes, but not boxes.
  442. # [18:37] * Quits: smfr_ (~smfr@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  443. # [18:37] <dael> fantasai: There's a bunch of ex in the spec.
  444. # [18:37] <Zakim> -TabAtkins
  445. # [18:38] <dael> SteveZ: Trying to read it and the Ruby HTML spec desn't work well together. I'll do it on the ML
  446. # [18:38] * TabAtkins boo, accidental hang up.
  447. # [18:38] * Quits: liam (liam@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  448. # [18:38] <dael> glazou: So both items will go off the call. That's the last thing on the agenda. Bert F2F details?
  449. # [18:38] <Zakim> +TabAtkins
  450. # [18:38] <dael> Bert: Register. If you don't register, you don't get network access.
  451. # [18:38] * fantasai yay, Internet!
  452. # [18:38] * fantasai can type on a real keyboard now
  453. # [18:38] <dael> Bert: If you have questions or things for the wiki, let me know. I put the things I thought should be included, but let me know.
  454. # [18:38] * dbaron wonders if intercontinental airline prices for early september are going to go up or down in the next week or two
  455. # [18:39] <dael> glazou: You've reserved a room? That's not mentioned on the wiki.
  456. # [18:39] <dael> Bert: I don't know the name of the room, but there is one reserved.
  457. # [18:39] <dael> glazou: Anything else?
  458. # [18:39] * leaverou is sad she can’t come to the F2F. It will be my 2nd week at MIT, so can’t be away :(
  459. # [18:39] <gregwhitworth> How do you register, send an email is there a magical button?
  460. # [18:39] <dael> glazou: Okay. Then I think we have a short call.
  461. # [18:39] <plinss> http://wiki.csswg.org/planning/sophia-2014
  462. # [18:39] <Bert> http://wiki.csswg.org/planning/sophia-2014
  463. # [18:39] <dael> glazou: gregwhitworth to register you need to add your name to the wiki
  464. # [18:39] * Quits: darktears (~darktears@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  465. # [18:39] <dael> gregwhitworth: How to you do that?
  466. # [18:40] <fantasai> http://test.csswg.org/shepherd/
  467. # [18:40] <dael> plinss: Use w3c.org or sheppard credentials. It's a bit tricky, but we had a lot of spam.
  468. # [18:40] <dael> gregwhitworth: Thanks.
  469. # [18:40] <Bert> (If you can't use the wiki, send me e-mail, and I'll edit the page.)
  470. # [18:40] <dael> glazou: The main page of the wiki says how to register through sheppard.
  471. # [18:40] <adenilson> bye.
  472. # [18:40] <dael> glazou: Thank you for today and I'll see you next week.
  473. # [18:40] <Zakim> - +1.603.821.aaee
  474. # [18:40] <Zakim> -dbaron
  475. # [18:40] <Zakim> -florian
  476. # [18:40] <Zakim> -hober
  477. # [18:40] <Zakim> -adenilson
  478. # [18:40] <Zakim> -Stearns
  479. # [18:40] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  480. # [18:40] <Zakim> -??P13
  481. # [18:40] <Zakim> -MaRakow
  482. # [18:40] <Zakim> -glazou
  483. # [18:40] <Zakim> -krit.a
  484. # [18:40] <Zakim> -abinader
  485. # [18:40] <Zakim> -dael
  486. # [18:40] <Zakim> -dauwhe
  487. # [18:40] <Zakim> -fantasai
  488. # [18:40] <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
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  491. # [18:40] <Zakim> -TabAtkins
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  494. # [18:40] <Zakim> -plinss
  495. # [18:40] <Zakim> -SimonSapin
  496. # [18:40] <Zakim> -Bert
  497. # [18:40] <Zakim> - +1.631.398.aadd
  498. # [18:40] <Zakim> -SteveZ
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  517. # [19:01] <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, +1.415.832.aaaa, in Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
  518. # [19:01] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  519. # [19:01] <Zakim> Attendees were +1.415.832.aaaa, fantasai, dauwhe, +33.1.39.21.aabb, glazou, plinss, +1.415.832.aacc, krit, dael, alex_antennahouse, florian, Stearns, SimonSapin, +1.631.398.aadd,
  520. # [19:01] <Zakim> ... dbaron, TabAtkins, SteveZ, Bert, smfr, adenilson, +1.603.821.aaee, glenn, hober, [Microsoft], abinader, MaRakow
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  531. # [19:29] * Quits: lmcliste_ (~lmclister@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  532. # [19:35] * Joins: jcraig (~jcraig@public.cloak)
  533. # [19:42] * Joins: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak)
  534. # [19:47] * Quits: jcraig (~jcraig@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  535. # [19:48] * Joins: jcraig (~jcraig@public.cloak)
  536. # [19:53] * Joins: rhauck (~rhauck@public.cloak)
  537. # [19:55] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  538. # [19:56] * leaverou is now known as leaverou_away
  539. # [20:09] * Joins: jcraig_ (~jcraig@public.cloak)
  540. # [20:13] * Quits: jcraig (~jcraig@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  541. # [20:13] * jcraig_ is now known as jcraig
  542. # [20:23] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak)
  543. # [20:26] * Joins: liam (liam@public.cloak)
  544. # [20:29] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  545. # [20:29] * Parts: Zakim (zakim@public.cloak) (Zakim)
  546. # [20:57] * leaverou_away is now known as leaverou
  547. # [21:03] * Quits: plh (plehegar@public.cloak) ("Leaving")
  548. # [21:08] * Quits: jcraig (~jcraig@public.cloak) (jcraig)
  549. # [21:14] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@public.cloak) ("")
  550. # [21:16] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@public.cloak)
  551. # [21:37] * leaverou is now known as leaverou_away
  552. # [21:49] * Quits: liam (liam@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  553. # [22:01] * Joins: liam (liam@public.cloak)
  554. # [22:20] * Joins: jcraig (~jcraig@public.cloak)
  555. # [22:47] * Joins: dauwhe_ (~dauwhe@public.cloak)
  556. # [22:47] * Quits: dauwhe (~dauwhe@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  557. # [23:06] * Quits: liam (liam@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  558. # [23:12] * Quits: rhauck (~rhauck@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  559. # [23:13] * Quits: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak) (adenilson)
  560. # [23:16] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek)
  561. # [23:23] * Joins: liam (liam@public.cloak)
  562. # [23:24] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
  563. # [23:30] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek)
  564. # [23:35] * Quits: dauwhe_ (~dauwhe@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  565. # [23:36] * Joins: dauwhe (~dauwhe@public.cloak)
  566. # [23:40] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
  567. # [23:59] * Joins: lmcliste_ (~lmclister@public.cloak)
  568. # [23:59] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  569. # Session Close: Thu Aug 07 00:00:00 2014

The end :)