/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2014-08-21 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Aug 21 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #css
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  141. # [22:16] <tantek> sad to see http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-hyperlinks/ go but without active implementer interest - no need to keep it around
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  146. # [22:53] <liam> tantek, yeah, there was a task force for that and a rather strong objection, too
  147. # [22:54] <tantek> liam - really? as co-editor I don't recall any task force, nor any objections. URLs
  148. # [22:54] <tantek> ?
  149. # [22:54] <liam> the task force was between two coordination groups
  150. # [22:55] <liam> a slightly wider scope of link discovery iirc
  151. # [22:57] <TabAtkins> tantek: I expect that when we get implementors to care about footnotes, it'll return in some form.
  152. # [22:59] <TabAtkins> (Since the only good way to render footnotes in continuous hypertext is with two-way links between the marker and the footnote.)
  153. # [22:59] <TabAtkins> (Unless you're doing something special with the presentation like displaying them in the margin, of course.)
  154. # [23:02] <tantek> TabAtkins: yeah, footnotes are another tough one
  155. # [23:03] <tantek> TabAtkins: the problem with that spec is that I left MS before implementing :(
  156. # [23:03] <tantek> even a minimal functional/useful IE/Mac implementation would have likely been enough for Gecko to implement (and do a better job)
  157. # [23:04] <liam> opera had something iirc
  158. # [23:04] <TabAtkins> tantek: IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT
  159. # [23:05] <tantek> TabAtkins: I know /o\
  160. # [23:05] * tantek hides
  161. # [23:05] <liam> footnotes as hyperlinks are fundamentally missing the point - they become like end-notes in a book in that case. The point of footnotes is that they are not disruptive
  162. # [23:06] <tantek> liam you may be interested in marginalia: http://kartikprabhu.com/article/marginalia
  163. # [23:08] <TabAtkins> Good use of marginalia I ran into today: http://practicaltypography.com/why-racket-why-lisp.html
  164. # [23:08] <TabAtkins> (Good subject matter, too.)
  165. # [23:08] <liam> yeah, we spent ages on marginalia for the (abandoned) xsl-fo 2 draft
  166. # [23:08] <liam> TabAtkins, yes, that's nice
  167. # [23:08] <liam> tantek, wonder how that will relate to the hypothes.is stuff
  168. # [23:08] <tantek> liam, yeah, classic example of too much writing, too little building/prototyping
  169. # [23:08] <liam> and the new web annotationg wg
  170. # [23:09] <liam> tantek, there was code actually
  171. # [23:09] <tantek> liam - hypothesis stuff depends on an "annotation server" which is a dumb idea
  172. # [23:09] <tantek> as dumb as having a centralized "hyperlinks server" that keeps track of your hyperlinks and makes them work
  173. # [23:09] <liam> let's say it's a different model :)
  174. # [23:09] <tantek> liam, it was a model that the web made obsolete
  175. # [23:09] <liam> in that sense yes, but sometimes that's what you want
  176. # [23:09] <tantek> pre-web, there were hypertext servers like that
  177. # [23:09] <liam> yes
  178. # [23:09] <tantek> and they're all dead
  179. # [23:09] <tantek> the web killed them
  180. # [23:09] <liam> also true, and for good reason
  181. # [23:10] <liam> although that doesn't mean there's no room for a hybrid approach, and the prevalence of JSON-based systems shows that to be the case
  182. # [23:10] <tantek> so in the same way, an annotation server is a losing proposal
  183. # [23:10] <tantek> especially since peer-to-peer marginalia is already *deployed* on the web
  184. # [23:10] <liam> i invite you to watch for the web annotations wg and join it and be suitably disruptive :)
  185. # [23:10] <tantek> liam - I doubt it - not enough people care for such centralized SPOFFy approaches
  186. # [23:11] <tantek> liam - already pointed out to various folks
  187. # [23:11] <liam> saying "you are doomed to failure" isn't the same as leading people to success
  188. # [23:11] <tantek> liam - there's nothing to disrupt because there's nothing shipping
  189. # [23:13] <tantek> liam, failure is the default/start state. you have to work hard to break out of that and achieve success.
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  192. # Session Close: Fri Aug 22 00:00:00 2014

The end :)