/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2014-10-08 / end

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# Session Start: Wed Oct 08 00:00:00 2014
# Session Ident: #css
# [00:14] * Quits: jet (~junglecode@public.cloak) (jet)
# [01:16] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins, fantasai: Did I miss something, or does css-sizing not define how to deal with (indefinite) percentage margin and padding?
# [01:23] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: Defined by padding/margin definition, no?
# [01:23] <fantasai> It probably doesn't
# [01:23] <TabAtkins> That is, 2.1.
# [01:23] <fantasai> which basically says, treat as zero, iirc...
# [01:23] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: 2.1 doesn’t define intrinsic widths, does it?
# [01:24] <SimonSapin> I remember "treat it as zero", just trying to find where it’s defined
# [01:25] <SimonSapin> http://dbaron.org/css/intrinsic/#outer-intrinsic says to divide to try to resolve the percentage equation, but notes this "is not very interoperable"
# [01:35] <fantasai> That's for certain legacy shrinkwrap cases...
# [01:35] <fantasai> maybe floats and/or tables
# [01:35] * fantasai unsure what the exact scope is
# [01:35] <fantasai> probably whichever sections are "undefined" in CSS2.1 :)
# [01:36] <SimonSapin> “Calculation of the shrink-to-fit width is similar to calculating the width of a table cell using the automatic table layout algorithm. ”
# [01:37] <SimonSapin> fantasai: sounds like a css-sizing issue?
# [01:38] <fantasai> I think I want to run far away from that
# [01:38] <fantasai> :p
# [01:38] <SimonSapin> fair enough :)
# [01:38] <SimonSapin> I’ll bug your co-editor about it
# [01:39] <TabAtkins> Who, me?
# [01:39] <fantasai> We are not defining table sizing
# [01:39] <fantasai> That's another spec entirely
# [01:39] * fantasai draws a line in the electrons
# [01:39] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: On that note, LEAN ON PCWALTON
# [01:39] <fantasai> not crossing that line
# [01:40] <SimonSapin> no, not tables
# [01:40] <SimonSapin> well, yes table, but that’s another topic
# [01:41] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-sizing/#block-intrinsic says "... plus any inline-axis margin, border, and padding." but what if margin or padding is indefinite?
# [01:42] <TabAtkins> Dunno!
# [01:42] <TabAtkins> I'd have to do some testing.
# [01:43] <TabAtkins> Probably try and figure out what things do by probing at float?
# [01:43] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins: I’m pretty sure the answer is "resolve to zero" but can’t remember where I read that
# [01:44] <TabAtkins> I suspect it is - I think any other answer would mean having to do some form of layout, which we want to avoid for the intrinsic sizes.
# [01:44] <SimonSapin> http://dbaron.org/css/intrinsic/#outer-intrinsic says to divide to try to resolve the percentage equation, but notes this "is not very interoperable"
# [01:47] <fantasai> margin or padding can't be indefinite
# [01:47] <fantasai> well, except if you define it in the reverse-construction way dbaron mentions
# [01:48] <SimonSapin> fantasai: what do you mean, can’t be indefinite?
# [01:48] <SimonSapin> 'margin-left: auto' seems pretty indefinite
# [01:48] <SimonSapin> but yeah, it needs to be replaced with something definite for intrinsic size calculation
# [01:49] <SimonSapin> I emailed www-style
# [01:49] <fantasai> auto resolves to zero
# [01:49] <fantasai> if the parent is indefinite
# [01:49] <SimonSapin> fantasai: where is that defined?
# [01:49] <fantasai> the only issue you have is percentages
# [01:49] <fantasai> Which are defined thus: "If the containing block's width depends on this element, then the resulting layout is undefined in CSS 2.1. "
# [01:50] <fantasai> SimonSapin: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/visudet.html#float-width
# [01:51] <SimonSapin> fantasai: that’s for floats. What about a "normal" block inside the float that is being intrinsic-sized?
# [01:51] <fantasai> I think http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/visudet.html#blockwidth applies
# [01:52] <fantasai> By the time you're doing layout, you know the containing block width.
# [01:52] <fantasai> Auto gets resolved then.
# [01:52] <fantasai> As for passing it up via shrink-to-fit calculations, those are undefined in CSS2.1
# [01:52] <SimonSapin> but we’re not doing layout yet
# [01:52] <fantasai> I think we define it in sizing though
# [01:52] * fantasai looks
# [01:52] <SimonSapin> <div style="float: left"><div style="margin: 10%">
# [01:53] <SimonSapin> Sizing definitely (pun not intended) should define it, but I believe it doesn’t yet
# [01:53] <fantasai> Nope, we forgot to define that.
# [01:54] <fantasai> We did it for extrinsic sizing, but not intrinsic
# [01:54] <fantasai> *intrinsic size contributions
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# [01:56] <SimonSapin> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Oct/0138.html
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# [01:58] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Have you set your travel schedule for NYC yet?
# [01:58] <TabAtkins> I just came *back* from NYC.
# [01:58] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Ah. Thought that was end of October
# [01:58] <TabAtkins> Nah, first week.
# [01:59] <fantasai> kk
# [01:59] <TabAtkins> Ended up not having time to go elsewhere anyway. Spent my one free night exploring NYC with friends, which was fun.
# [01:59] <fantasai> I was drowning in homework anyway
# [01:59] <fantasai> eheh
# [02:00] * fantasai is astoundingly short on sleep atm
# [02:00] * fantasai also hasn't eaten anything all day except an apple
# [02:00] * fantasai is not doing well at the basic functions of being alive lately
# [02:01] <fantasai> Maybe I should go home and crash now. :p
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# [02:07] <SimonSapin> fantasai: just maybe?
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# [02:09] <fantasai> maybe prolly definitely....
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# [17:57] <dael> zakim, who's here
# [17:57] <Zakim> dael, you need to end that query with '?'
# [17:57] <dael> zakim, who's here?
# [17:57] <Zakim> sorry, dael, I don't know what conference this is
# [17:57] <Zakim> On IRC I see gregwhitworth, Zakim, dael, abinader, darktears, rego, dauwhe, plh, antonp, nikos, jacobg______, lmclister_____, achicu_____, TabAtkins, timeless, hober, stryx`, Bert,
# [17:57] <Zakim> ... ato, liam, mihnea____, Teoli__, sgalineau, slightlyoff, RRSAgent, ed, krit, kangil, CSSWG_LogBot, paul___irish, cabanier, astearns, mvujovic_____, abucur___, birtles, Hixie,
# [17:57] <Zakim> ... krijnhoetmer, amtiskaw_____, alexmog, leaverou, fantasai, SimonSapin, dwim, logbot, projector, sylvaing, decadance, shans, gsnedders, plinss, renoirb, trackbot
# [17:58] <plinss> zakim, this will be style
# [17:58] <Zakim> ok, plinss, I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM already started
# [17:58] <Zakim> +krit
# [17:58] <Zakim> +plinss
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# [17:59] * plinss changes topic to 'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Oct/0142.html'
# [17:59] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
# [17:59] <Zakim> +??P5
# [17:59] <Zakim> +dauwhe
# [17:59] <dael> ScribeNick: dael
# [17:59] <gregwhitworth> Zakim, Microsoft is me
# [17:59] <Zakim> +gregwhitworth; got it
# [17:59] <abinader> Zakim, ??P5 is me
# [17:59] <Zakim> +abinader; got it
# [18:00] <Zakim> +??P17
# [18:00] <Zakim> + +33.4.92.38.aaaa - is perhaps jerome
# [18:00] <adenilson> Zakim, ??P17 is me.
# [18:00] <Zakim> +adenilson; got it
# [18:00] <Zakim> +TabAtkins
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# [18:01] <Zakim> +florian
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# [18:01] * krit everyone speaking through a tube?
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# [18:03] <astearns> zakim, who is on the call?
# [18:03] <Zakim> On the phone I see dael, astearns, krit, plinss, gregwhitworth, abinader, dauwhe, adenilson, jerome, TabAtkins, SylvaIng, florian, fantasai, antonp, hober
# [18:03] <Zakim> +smfr
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# [18:04] * plh zakim, call plh-mobile
# [18:04] * Zakim ok, plh; the call is being made
# [18:04] <Zakim> +Plh
# [18:04] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
# [18:04] * plh waves
# [18:04] <dael> zakim, IPcaller is alex_antennahouse
# [18:04] <Zakim> +alex_antennahouse; got it
# [18:04] <dael> plinss: Let's get started. Any additions?
# [18:04] <dael> plinss: I'll take that as a not.
# [18:04] <dael> Topic: Error-correcting unclosed empty url()
# [18:05] <dael> TabAtkins: That's mine.
# [18:05] <Zakim> +ChrisL
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# [18:05] <Zakim> + +1.631.398.aabb
# [18:05] <dael> TabAtkins: There are two cases that zcorpan pointed out to me.
# [18:05] <MaRakow> Zakim, Microsoft has me
# [18:05] <Zakim> sorry, MaRakow, I do not recognize a party named 'Microsoft'
# [18:05] <TabAtkins> foo { background-image: url(image
# [18:05] <dael> TabAtkins: They mary vary fromt he old spec. The url function is unclosed like this in IRC
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# [18:06] <TabAtkins> foo { background-image: url(
# [18:06] <dael> TabAtkins: If that is an entire stylesheet, browsers are inconsistant. FF and IE follow the spec and close the URL and treat it as valid. Chrome says invalid
# [18:06] <dael> TabAtkins: If that (above) was entire, this is incosistant too.
# [18:06] <Zakim> + +1.917.934.aacc
# [18:06] <dael> TabAtkins: FF and Blink throw as invalid. IE is valid and empty URL
# [18:06] <mikesherov> Zakim: +1.917.934.aacc is me
# [18:06] <dael> TabAtkins: That exposes interesting bits of URL handling that I'll talk on later.
# [18:07] <dael> TabAtkins: On these examples I'd like to standardize on IE. First is valid and closes, Second is valid and points empty. THis is consistant with error handling for other items.
# [18:07] <mikesherov> zakim, +1.917.934.aacc is me
# [18:07] <Zakim> +mikesherov; got it
# [18:07] <dael> TabAtkins: So this would be consistant with functions and matches IE. This is what the spec currently says.
# [18:07] <dael> TabAtkins: I want to make sure that's okay because this may be a change from old syntax, but it's hard to tell.
# [18:08] <dael> plinss: My guess would be it's from treaking URL as a tokin. I think this makes sense. My q is it spec'ed this way or it is ambig?
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# [18:08] <dael> TabAtkins: Spec is un-ambig. If there's a string there it's super easy, but these are non-string so they're handled by special tokin. The only way to have a bad URL is to have a bad character in there. Unclosed and empty should do the say thing. It's hard to omit a bad URL
# [18:09] <dael> plinss: Does anyone think TabAtkins proposal is the way it should not work.
# [18:09] <dael> fantasai: I'd like a clear summary in IRC and I'd like dbaron to sign off explicitly since he might know some compat issues.
# [18:09] <dael> TabAtkins: URL functions auto-close same as other functions in CSS. compat is we're doing IE, so it's unlikely to be a problem
# [18:09] <dael> plinss: This is only end of line?
# [18:10] <fantasai> s/line/file/
# [18:10] <dael> TabAtkins: Yes. The only place we care about end of line is for strings.
# [18:10] <dael> plinss: fantasai do you want dbaron to sign off still?
# [18:10] <dael> fantasai: I'm okay with resolution, but I want to hear back from him.
# [18:10] <dael> TabAtkins: I'm okay with that too.
# [18:10] <dael> RESOLVED: Unclosed URLs at the end of file should auto-close
# [18:11] <Bert> (Boris Zbarsky may know if this causes problems with look-ahead.)
# [18:11] <dael> TabAtkins: There's a quirk to this that I discovered. What to do about an empty URL. This is a value and units issue. We uncovered this in IE's behavior for the second EX.
# [18:11] <gregwhitworth> FWIW: We have no bugs regarding the background-image url() EOF that Tab suggests
# [18:11] <dael> TabAtkins: Blink and FF are consistant that empty URL is invalid. IE treats an umpty as unresolvable.
# [18:12] <dael> TabAtkins: That matches HTML is similar cases. If you proved and empty tag it's an error for image. In general emptry URLs are errors. It's only in linking where they're allowed.
# [18:12] <fantasai> IIRC people link to the current page often for javascript-triggered links
# [18:12] <dael> TabAtkins: This seems reasonable to me, but it's not a big deal. It seems it might be reasonable to converge on IE since it matched HTML.
# [18:13] <dael> TabAtkins: It means we might need a flag around URLs that weren't empty. So if we had hyperlinking we could allow an empty URL
# [18:13] <dael> TabAtkins: All ours right now are resource requests, but we may need tha tin the future.
# [18:13] <dael> TabAtkins: An image is a valid declaration, but pointing to an empty URL
# [18:13] <fantasai> Like url(about:invalid)?
# [18:14] <dael> ???: So instead of trying to figure out if it's empty after, you give up before?
# [18:14] <plinss> s/???/florian/
# [18:14] <dael> TabAtkins: Yes. I think this only shows up around error handling since normally an empty URL for image is an error anyway.
# [18:14] <dael> fantasai: In values and units for the outer function if you return the default URL...
# [18:15] * plh zakim, who is on the phone?
# [18:15] * Zakim sees on the phone: dael, astearns, krit, plinss, gregwhitworth, abinader, dauwhe, adenilson, jerome, TabAtkins, SylvaIng, florian, fantasai, antonp, hober, smfr, Plh,
# [18:15] * Zakim ... alex_antennahouse, ChrisL, +1.631.398.aabb, mikesherov
# [18:15] <fantasai> s/outer/attr/
# [18:15] <fantasai> s/URL.../URL, it is about:invalid/
# [18:15] <dael> TabAtkins: I believe it should resolve the absolutization process should resolve to invalid the same way.
# [18:15] <dael> plinss: This is something that should be done blanketly at parse time, or should it be more usage time depending on how used?
# [18:16] <dael> TabAtkins: IN the future we may have linking style things and those should be valid, but we don't right now. However, to plan for the future I'd rather it att he values and units level
# [18:16] <dael> plinss: I agree.
# [18:16] <dael> fantasai: I wouldn't agree with syntax level, but I don't have an opinion for interp. I can't think of other than invalid
# [18:16] <dael> fantasai: If it returns the current page, it would return the stylesheet itself.
# [18:17] <dael> TabAtkins: Unless inline
# [18:17] <dael> fantasai: And that would be invalid most times since you're looking for an image
# [18:17] <dael> TabAtkins: In general it'll fail to resolve, but it means a 2nd req if you're not caching. For something you're likely to fail, I think we should have it be first time.
# [18:17] <fantasai> @import url();
# [18:17] <fantasai> :)
# [18:17] <dael> plinss: In theory someone could be doing something really bad, but I think it practice it's fine.
# [18:18] <dael> florian: Or perhaps there's someone altering it strangely. I'm sure it's poss with loose syntax, but we don't need to support this use case.
# [18:18] <dael> TabAtkins: Yep.
# [18:18] <dael> plinss: I agree. Some people use png to compress script.
# [18:18] <dael> plinss: I don't know how, but it's a thing.
# [18:19] <dael> plinss: I don't know exactly what, I haven't looked into it. They're using png compressor on the script.
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# [18:19] <ChrisL> png compression is zlib/flate
# [18:19] <dael> ??: If it works, good for them.
# [18:19] * fantasai would like to be consistent with the URL spec
# [18:19] <florian> s/??/florian/
# [18:19] <dael> TabAtkins: So obj to changes the values and units to make invalid empty URL fail to resolve automatically?
# [18:19] <dael> RESOLVED: change the values and units to make invalid empty URL fail to resolve automatically
# [18:19] <dael> plinss: Anything else?
# [18:20] <dael> Topic: media questies "not: is inconsistant
# [18:20] <dael> TabAtkins: The treatment of not for invalid is inconsistant. Mostly intended, but there's some legacy text that negates the inclosed behavior
# [18:20] <TabAtkins> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Oct/0111.html
# [18:20] <dael> TabAtkins: There's ex in the e-mail above.
# [18:21] <dael> TabAtkins: Simple, the old legacy media type if you put in invalid it treats the whole mq as invalid.
# [18:21] <dael> TabAtkins: so foo and not-foo are invalid
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# [18:21] <dael> TabAtkins: in media conditions if you're neagting features we wanted the ability to say (irc)
# [18:21] <Zakim> -krit
# [18:21] <TabAtkins> (min-width: 500px) or (foo: bar)
# [18:21] <dael> TabAtkins: WE wanted this to work if min-width was right, no matter of foo: bar
# [18:22] <dael> TabAtkins: So we have production to handle things we expect in the future as valid but false
# [18:22] <dael> florian: So if you're doing a prefix thing and you're doing -webkit-foo only one will match
# [18:22] <dael> TabAtkins: So we have if it's not foo: bar it becomes true. Unknown are true at the most local level.
# [18:22] <dael> TabAtkins: The problem is we have MQ3 text that says unrecognized media features makes the whole thing false.
# [18:23] <dael> TabAtkins: The problem is back in the day before MQ4 you could only use and. No for or not.
# [18:23] <dael> TabAtkins: At that point making one thing locally false and the whole thing being false was identical. That's no longer true and I think we need to remove that for MQ4
# [18:23] <florian> s/So if you're doing a prefix thing and you're doing -webkit-foo only one will match/So if you're doing a prefix thing and you're doing "(-webkit-foo: …) or (foo: …) or (-moz-foo: …)" only one will match/
# [18:24] <dael> TabAtkins: Allow unrecognized to just be false locally and preserve boolan responce.
# [18:24] <dael> florian: I think that's good. I'm for it.
# [18:24] <dael> TabAtkins: Yeah.
# [18:24] <dael> plinss: Anyone else?
# [18:24] <plh> q+
# [18:24] * Zakim sees plh on the speaker queue
# [18:24] <dael> RESOLVED: remove the old text that negates the entire media query if an unrocognized media value or feature appears
# [18:25] <dael> plh: Do we have a test for that?
# [18:25] <dael> TabAtkins: We don't
# [18:25] <dael> plh: It would be nice to have a test
# [18:25] <dael> TabAtkins: As we do the MQ4 test suite, we should test that as hard as we can.
# [18:25] <florian> s/I think that's good/I think that's what is the original intent, and we just accidentally failed to make it work/
# [18:25] <dael> TabAtkins: WE have MQ3 suite, but not with these new features.
# [18:25] <dael> plh: So are you saying write a test or there are bigger things?
# [18:25] <dael> TabAtkins: please, write a test.
# [18:26] <dael> plinss: WE almost never would say don't write a test
# [18:26] <dael> Topic: Remove setPropertyValue and setPropertyPriority
# [18:26] <TabAtkins> (min-width: 500px) or supports(foo) <== this was true before resolution
# [18:26] <dael> plinss: zcorpan brought this up. Anyone want to talk?
# [18:26] <TabAtkins> (min-width: 500px) or (foo: bar) <== this was false before resolution
# [18:26] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak)
# [18:26] <dael> [silence]
# [18:26] <dael> plinss: We can defer this.
# [18:26] <dael> Topic: CSS Snappoints
# [18:27] <dael> plinss: Mozilla sent out a note asking for progress. Is anyone working?
# [18:27] <ChrisL> zakim, who is speaking?
# [18:27] <Zakim> ChrisL, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: gregwhitworth (89%)
# [18:27] <MaRakow> actually MaRakow
# [18:27] <dael> MaRakow: I tabled it since google wasn't interested. It's good to hear Mozilla is interested. I can start work on the open issues.
# [18:27] <dael> ??: We're also interested in impl snappoints
# [18:27] * ChrisL :) never trust robot-derived reasoning
# [18:27] <dael> MaRakow: Do you agree with what was on the list?
# [18:28] <dael> ??: We'd like the repeat thing. So have scrolling and snapping behavior and almost everything we've seen used constantly spaced snapping, so we'd like one line of CSS to add snapping
# [18:28] <dael> MaRakow: That's my thought too
# [18:28] <plinss> s/??/smfr/
# [18:28] <dael> smfr: hober sent some feedback in the past about auto-snapping at the end.
# [18:29] <dael> MaRakow: I'll double check on that. I think I got all the feedback into the spec.
# [18:29] <dael> smfr: Thanks.
# [18:29] <dael> smfr: webkit does have an impl, btw
# [18:29] <dael> MaRakow: Where can I try that?
# [18:29] <dael> smfr: If you download the webkit nightly on a mac
# [18:29] <dael> MaRakow: Okay.
# [18:29] <dael> plinss: Looks like we're ready for progress. Do you need help?
# [18:30] <Zakim> -abinader
# [18:30] <Zakim> -adenilson
# [18:30] <dael> MaRakow: WE've got a good list. One question is a number were asking about new features like snap areas. Are people still looking for that area, or do they want to lock down the basics of snap points?
# [18:30] <dael> fantasai: I'd like to take a look because I don't quite remember.
# [18:30] <dael> MaRakow: Okay.
# [18:30] <Zakim> +??P5
# [18:30] <dael> smfr: Apple would jsut like the simplist set of features. Looking at advanced is fine, but we'd like something solid.
# [18:30] <dael> MaRakow: Okay.
# [18:30] <abinader> Zakim, ??P5 is me
# [18:30] <Zakim> +abinader; got it
# [18:31] <dael> Topic: Sizing of floated ::first-letter
# [18:31] <Zakim> +??P17
# [18:31] <adenilson> Zakim, ??p17 is me.
# [18:31] <Zakim> +adenilson; got it
# [18:31] <dael> florian: We resolved on this two weeks ago with a change of behavior.
# [18:31] <florian> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-pseudo/
# [18:31] <dael> florian: We don't have a clear spec as to where this should go. Selectors 4 doesn't define this because this was expected to go into css-pseudo, but that's just unofficial.
# [18:32] <dael> florian: So we should either pull that stuff back into Selectors 4 or we should pub pseudo
# [18:32] <dael> fantasai: For pseudo elements there was a spec from adobe with a bunch of new features without consensus
# [18:32] <dael> florian: That's what I linked above.
# [18:32] * astearns where "a bunch of" is really "one"
# [18:32] <dael> fantasai: I think if we just had the level 3 stuff but better defined that's easier to pub. Or we can split the pseudos into the places they most relate.
# [18:33] <dael> fantasai: I guess the q is do we want to keep pseudo together in one spec or should we split them and put them with the formatting systems they interact with
# [18:33] <dael> florian: If we want one spec, it needs an editor.
# [18:33] <dael> florian: That shouldn't be the only criteria
# [18:34] <dael> dauwhe: A lot of stuff in pseudo does talk about details of first letters tuff. Some examples make me cringe. There may be some utility in moving that out.
# [18:34] <dael> MaRakow: I'm not sure if there's utility of putting that stuff together.
# [18:34] <dael> fantasai: WE still ned to define what the first-letter pseudo contains.
# [18:34] <astearns> s/MaRakow/astearns/
# [18:34] <dael> florian: This replaces selectors 3 so there's no spec to define it.
# [18:35] <dael> fantasai: Except the pseudo
# [18:35] <dael> florian: It says it replaces it and the pseudos are defined elsewhere
# [18:35] <dael> florian: WE can jsut remove these things and publish and that's what I linked above.
# [18:35] <dael> dauwhe: astearns are you okay remove multiple pseudo?
# [18:35] <dael> astearns: Yep. I'd be happier if TabAtkins was an editor and do it.
# [18:36] <dael> florian: So we have multi resolutions. first, WG accepts first editors draft for pseudo and than we add TabAtkins as an editor?
# [18:36] <dael> plinss: I think that's the proposal
# [18:36] <dael> plinss: I think we need to add TabAtkins as an editor, remove anything not in selectors 3, and then pubish
# [18:36] <dael> plinss: objections?
# [18:36] <dael> fantasai: sounds good to me.
# [18:36] <dael> dauwhe: Good to me
# [18:37] <dael> RESOLVED: accept pseudo elements 4 as an official ED, add TabAtkins as an editor, and remove the bits that aren't in selectors 3
# [18:37] * dauwhe add pseudo-editor to pseudo-spec about pseudo-elements :)
# [18:37] <dael> plinss: That's the end of my adgenda
# [18:37] <dael> plinss: Anything else?
# [18:37] * TabAtkins I'm a real editor!
# [18:37] <dael> plinss: Alright, everyone gets an extra 20 min
# [18:37] <dael> plinss: TPAC registration closes today!
# [18:37] <Zakim> -hober
# [18:38] <gregwhitworth> woohoo flexbox!!!!!
# [18:38] * dauwhe super-editor, more accurately
# [18:38] <dael> fantasai: One thing from me...Flexbox is in LC and the deadline is before TPAC. the goal is we process comments during TPAC and publish CR shortly after. WE want feedback on main-size flex-basis auto-magic. That's all in the draft.
# [18:38] <dael> fantasai: Please plan your research to discuss it at TPAC
# [18:38] <Zakim> -smfr
# [18:38] <Zakim> -gregwhitworth
# [18:38] <Zakim> -Plh
# [18:38] <Zakim> -fantasai
# [18:38] <Zakim> -dauwhe
# [18:38] <Zakim> -antonp
# [18:38] <Zakim> -adenilson
# [18:38] * Quits: gregwhitworth (~gregwhitworth@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
# [18:38] <Zakim> -alex_antennahouse
# [18:38] <Zakim> -astearns
# [18:38] <Zakim> -SylvaIng
# [18:38] <Zakim> -plinss
# [18:38] <Zakim> -florian
# [18:38] <Zakim> -abinader
# [18:38] <Zakim> -jerome
# [18:38] <Zakim> -ChrisL
# [18:38] * Quits: alex_antennahouse (~458c94ae@public.cloak) ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
# [18:39] <Zakim> -TabAtkins
# [18:39] <dael> plinss: Thanks everyone
# [18:39] <Zakim> -dael
# [18:39] <Zakim> -mikesherov
# [18:39] <Zakim> - +1.631.398.aabb
# [18:39] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
# [18:39] <Zakim> Attendees were dael, astearns, krit, plinss, dauwhe, gregwhitworth, abinader, +33.4.92.38.aaaa, adenilson, TabAtkins, SylvaIng, florian, fantasai, antonp, hober, smfr, Plh,
# [18:39] <Zakim> ... alex_antennahouse, ChrisL, +1.631.398.aabb, mikesherov
# [18:40] * Parts: smfr (~smfr@public.cloak) (smfr)
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# [18:41] <florian> Off topic question: If I run into something obvious that should be fixed in a spec for which I am not an editor, in some trivial enough cases, it doesn't feel worth discussing on the list, and I'd rather just send the editor a pull request. Do we have an agreed way to do that?
# [18:42] * Quits: MaRakow (~MaRakow@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
# [18:43] <plinss> florian: no, even though the draft repo is mirrored to GitHub, there’s no requirement that editors pay attention to pull requests.
# [18:43] <fantasai> florian: Not that I know of.
# [18:43] <plinss> best is to make the PR, then email the editor about it
# [18:43] <fantasai> florian: You can send an email to the editor
# [18:44] <fantasai> florian: or, if it's trivial enough, make the change and email a link to the diff
# [18:44] * Quits: dael (~dael@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
# [18:44] <plinss> also note that the GitHub mirror is read-only at the moment
# [18:44] <fantasai> like fixing typos or formatting
# [18:45] <fantasai> if it's a substantive change, or a significant editorial one (which often hides substantive changes, possibly accidental) should go to the list
# [18:45] <TabAtkins> What fantasai said - typo fixing, just make the fix and tell the editor about it afterwards.
# [18:45] <florian> ok. If I keep it in mercurial, what would generally be prefered? a request to pull from another repo, or a merge request from a branch in the official repo?
# [18:45] * fantasai has no idea how to handle either
# [18:45] <TabAtkins> Me neither.
# [18:45] <TabAtkins> Just make the edits.
# [18:46] <florian> Will do
# [18:46] <fantasai> or email a patch if it's complicated to explain but simple to code
# [18:46] <florian> sure
# [18:46] * TabAtkins refuses to put in the effort to learn Mercurial beyond basics, because this is the sole repo he expects to ever be seriously exposed to that still uses it.
# [18:46] <florian> it does sounds a bit wrong that we are using a dvcs and mail patches around rather than branch and merge, but whatever works
# [18:47] * Quits: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak) (adenilson)
# [18:48] <florian> when do we start the next flamewar about switching to git?
# [18:48] * fantasai defers to peter
# [18:50] <plinss> fwiw: it’s entirely possible to merge pull requests on GitHub directly into a local mercurial repo (it’s just slow the first time). We had a wiki page on how to do it for the test repo…
# [18:50] <plinss> and the plan at some point is to make the hg<->github sync bidirectional like the test repo is, so editors will be able to work in either space
# [18:51] <plinss> no need to fight over one or the other
# [18:51] <fantasai> as long as it's magic I don't have to fight with, I'm cool with that
# [18:51] * fantasai hates arguing with scripts
# [18:52] * fantasai pokes sylvaing
# [18:52] <plinss> yeah, the only issue I’ve seen with the test repo is that if people push to both repos before the sync finishes, you wind up with two heads and the next victim just needs to do a merge
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# Session Close: Thu Oct 09 00:00:00 2014

The end :)