/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2014-11-03 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Nov 03 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #css
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  21. # [12:39] <ppk___> I find the device-adaptation spec unreadable. How I currently see the viewport situation:
  22. # [12:39] <ppk___> 1) Layout viewport, which is the CSS initial containing block that serves to constrain your layout.
  23. # [12:39] <ppk___> 2) Visual viewport, which is equal to the area of the site the user is currently seeing on-screen. It is influenced by zooming and panning.
  24. # [12:40] <ppk___> 3) Ideal viewport, which is the measures the layout viewport gets when you use the meta viewport width=device-width.
  25. # [12:40] <ppk___> The third is maybe a conceit, but I find it's useful for explaining people how it works.
  26. # [12:41] <ppk___> The most important one is the layout viewport, which influences the CSS layout.
  27. # [12:41] <ppk___> The visual viewport is much less important, but declarations such as position: fixed are relative to it.
  28. # [12:42] <ppk___> Hope this helps; I'm not sure what kind of information you're after.
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  38. # [15:59] * astearns suggests having ppk write a chapter on viewports for whichever CSS spec it should be in
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  41. # [16:01] <ppk___> I already wrote a chapter in my book! <g>
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  60. # [17:53] <TabAtkins> krit: I'm supposed to define the viewports.
  61. # [17:56] <krit> ppk___: thanks for the description. It seems that the others just are various variations base on zoom/scale/device pixels and layout viewport is the only one relevant for deriving specs.
  62. # [17:56] <TabAtkins> krit: No, the visual viewport is used, as ppk said, for fixpos.
  63. # [17:57] <krit> TabAtkins: cool, I was just wondering if the svg viewport can be described by "one" of the css viewports. But it doesn't seem so.
  64. # [17:57] <TabAtkins> Nope, it's none of them.
  65. # [17:57] <TabAtkins> SVG "viewport" is just a coordinate space starter, something very similar to CSS's "containing block".
  66. # [17:57] <TabAtkins> Might even be identical, if we define the SVG layout model correctly.
  67. # [17:59] <krit> Well, maybe
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  69. # [18:23] <ppk___> The layout viewport is by far the most important one for CSS specs. But the visual viewport does come into play every once in a while.
  70. # [18:23] <ppk___> And TabAtkins : I'm glad you're going to define the viewports. The earlier attempt ... well, let's say it didn't succeed.
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  87. # [20:01] * Topic is 'https://wiki.csswg.org/planning/tpac-2014#agenda -Zakim 26631#'
  88. # [20:01] * Set by plinss on Tue Oct 28 23:26:05
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  91. # [20:11] <TabAtkins> krit: When'll you have time to discuss what the SVG preprocessor does, and what Bikeshed needs to produce to make something equivalent in functionality?
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  93. # [20:13] <krit> TabAtkins: in an hour? Or tomorrow after 10am your time?
  94. # [20:13] <TabAtkins> An hour's fine.
  95. # [20:13] <TabAtkins> Or tomorrow, whatever's better for you.
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  99. # [21:08] <krit> TabAtkins: I suppose it it lunch for you now. I think it is better to do it tomorrow at 10am
  100. # [21:09] <TabAtkins> krit: Well, I just finished up lunch.
  101. # [21:09] <TabAtkins> Whatever you want. ^_^
  102. # [21:14] <krit> TabAtkins: Give me 15min and I am all yours :P
  103. # [21:16] <TabAtkins> kk!
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  108. # [21:31] <krit> TabAtkins: back
  109. # [21:32] <TabAtkins> Okay, so what's all the magic that an SVG elementdef should do?
  110. # [21:32] <krit> TabAtkins: the files can be found here: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/FXTF/file/6177a389e715/filters
  111. # [21:33] <krit> TabAtkins: the perl script creates a preprocessed document that goes to bikesehd and takes the definitions*.xml files as input
  112. # [21:33] <krit> TabAtkins: The elementdef table has the information here: http://dev.w3.org/fxtf/filters/#feDropShadowElement
  113. # [21:34] <krit> TabAtkins: different type of attributes, the content model of the element
  114. # [21:34] <krit> TabAtkins: as well as an category
  115. # [21:34] <krit> TabAtkins: and a DOMInterface
  116. # [21:34] <krit> TabAtkins: the core attributes need some clean up
  117. # [21:34] <TabAtkins> So name/categories/content model/dom interface looks like it can be all done manually without difficulty.
  118. # [21:35] <krit> TabAtkins: IIRC we did not want most of the xml: attributes anymore
  119. # [21:35] <TabAtkins> I assume that the attributes would be better if you could at least specify the grouped ones in some shorthand.
  120. # [21:35] <krit> TabAtkins: well, of course it could be done manually, up to which point would you expect an editor to do it? :)
  121. # [21:35] <krit> TabAtkins: correct
  122. # [21:35] <krit> TabAtkins: presentation attributes also might update
  123. # [21:36] <TabAtkins> I mean that it's fine to have a <pre class=elementdef> with, like, "Dom Interfaces: SVGFEDropShadowElement" as a line.
  124. # [21:36] <krit> TabAtkins: yes, I think it is
  125. # [21:36] <TabAtkins> Yeah, core/presentation/maybe others.
  126. # [21:36] <TabAtkins> The "filter primitive attributes" group is gonna be interesting.
  127. # [21:36] <TabAtkins> Because I assume that other elements have similar groups.
  128. # [21:37] <krit> TabAtkins: in SVG they might
  129. # [21:37] <TabAtkins> Yeah.
  130. # [21:37] <TabAtkins> Hmmmm.
  131. # [21:38] <TabAtkins> So we want the attribute grouping to be doable in a distributed manner, so you can pick up the latest set of definitions and regen, and it'll automatically have all the attributes defined as "presentation attributes", regardless of where they're defined.
  132. # [21:38] <TabAtkins> Oh!
  133. # [21:38] <TabAtkins> I think this is exactly what I need the "concept" dfn type for, which I haven't implemented yet.
  134. # [21:38] <krit> TabAtkins: hehe
  135. # [21:39] <krit> TabAtkins: all these group attributes are defined somewhere
  136. # [21:39] <krit> TabAtkins: so if could be possible to reference a group as it is for any element, right?
  137. # [21:39] <TabAtkins> Yeah, but they can potentially be extended by multiple specs.
  138. # [21:39] <TabAtkins> Yeah.
  139. # [21:42] <TabAtkins> Hmm. So what I'm considering is, you can tag things with multiple "for" values.
  140. # [21:42] <TabAtkins> Well, no, hm.
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  142. # [21:43] <TabAtkins> Okay, so I need to think on how I want to do this.
  143. # [21:43] <TabAtkins> Everything else can be done alraedy with a `<pre class=elementdef>`.
  144. # [21:44] <TabAtkins> It currently requires "Name", "Categories", "Contexts", "Content model", "Attributes"
  145. # [21:44] <krit> TabAtkins: everything else is possible to do you mean, or already implemented?
  146. # [21:45] <TabAtkins> Already implemented.
  147. # [21:45] <krit> TabAtkins: ok, then I’ll try that tomorrow… curious how it works :)
  148. # [21:45] <TabAtkins> The attribute groups just need me to figure out how I want to make them definable.
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  151. # [22:02] <TabAtkins> krit: Any clue why 'class' and 'style' aren't part of the core attributes?
  152. # [22:02] <krit> TabAtkins: because not every element was style able in the past
  153. # [22:03] <TabAtkins> But they are now.
  154. # [22:03] <krit> TabAtkins: they did not exist on SVGElement
  155. # [22:03] <krit> TabAtkins: yes
  156. # [22:03] <TabAtkins> Okay.
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The end :)