/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2014-12-04 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Dec 04 00:00:00 2014
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  30. # [04:03] <plinss> TabAtkins: widlparser updated. In constructors the “Constructor” will now be passed to the markupName function
  31. # [04:04] <plinss> the stringifier, setlike, maplike and such were already being passed to the makrupKeyword function…
  32. # [04:04] <plinss> s/makrupKeyword/markupKeyword/
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  52. # [08:53] <TabAtkins> Bah, I wasn't responding to markupKeyword yet.
  53. # [08:53] <TabAtkins> Thanks!
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  59. # [09:18] * Topic is 'logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/css/ - 2014-12-03 telcon agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Dec/0043.html'
  60. # [09:18] * Set by glazou on Wed Dec 03 17:32:20
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  74. # [10:24] <zcorpan> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-values/#numeric-types - is it not better to specify that css uses IEEE 754?
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  82. # [12:48] <robertknight_clo> Re the recent discussions about JS-in-CSS, one of the stated motivations in the Facebook presentation for using inline styles was to avoid issues when combining multiple CSS classes where the order in which they are applied is dependent upon the declaration in the CSS file. Are there any alternatives to inline styles or specificity hacks to deal with this?
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  88. # [14:48] <amtiskaw______> I've not looked at it that closely, but it seems like the issues it's addressing will be solved by using web components and thus having a proper component model.
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  96. # [16:16] <BlackCatkins> zcorpan: No, because that's not accurate. Browsers sometimes use oddly limited ranges for integers, for example, because they're using some bits of an int as flags.
  97. # [16:30] <Florian> I created some tests for css-pseudo a while ago, but there wasn't a pre-existing test suite for that spec.
  98. # [16:30] <Florian> so the W3C Sync Bot threw an error/warning at me
  99. # [16:31] <Florian> In css-pseudo-4/first-letter-003.html: Not linked to a tracked specification anchor.
  100. # [16:31] <Florian> How do I fix that?
  101. # [16:32] <gsnedders> BlackCatkins, zcorpan: and some used fixed-point maths anyway
  102. # [16:34] <gsnedders> we need to do something for interop because using 16-bit values in Presto hurt a lot though :(
  103. # [16:36] <Florian> gsnedders: Yes, presto is particularly guilty of using reduced sized ints in places. Helps with tiny memory consumption in some of the devices it had to run in.
  104. # [16:38] <Florian> I believe there were a few projects once in a while to increase the number of bits used in various places. But I can't remember how far this went
  105. # [16:40] <gsnedders> Florian: I remember well. :)
  106. # [16:41] <gsnedders> Florian: CORE-21455 IIRC was the last effort which was near complete by the time of end of Presto
  107. # [16:41] <gsnedders> (I could be entirely wrong about the bug number, of course. It's not like I've had access to the BTS in a while. :))
  108. # [16:42] <Florian> My memory isn't good enough to remember bug numbers without access to the BTS in about 2.5 years. Hats off to you if you can.
  109. # [16:43] <gsnedders> I can remember relatively few. But that's one bug I had enough to do with to remember well.
  110. # [16:45] <gsnedders> I guess it's only a year and a half in my case, but still.
  111. # [16:46] <Florian> Well, I think I only remember one bug number, JOZO81-450. I spent quite a few hours on that as well. (bug in the hardware interupt handler of wifi card of a KDDI phone, which would randomly corrupt a handful of bytes in memory, and crash the bream vm about 20% of the time on startup )
  112. # [16:47] <Florian> so yeah, some numbers are hard to forget if you spend enough time and emotion on it :)
  113. # [16:54] <gsnedders> I was asking guys to test security TC in Firefox last week, they were somewhat disconcerted by my telling them it was reporting 1Q 2011 and wondering how I knew that off hand (I didn't; I guessed).
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  121. # [17:57] <plinss> Florian: there doesn’t have to be a pre-existing test suite, all you need is for Shepherd to track and parse the spec
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  123. # [17:58] <plinss> Florian: and it is already parsing css-pseudo-4, so my guess is that you’re not using the proper url for the spec
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  125. # [18:05] <plinss> Florian: looking at your tests, you need to use the versioned url for the spec, so http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-pseudo-4/#… instead of http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-pseudo/#…
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  128. # [18:16] * BlackCatkins is now known as TabAtkins
  129. # [18:18] <TabAtkins> gsnedders: Right, there's a lot of usage of 1/60th of a px for lengths.
  130. # [18:19] <gsnedders> 1/60th? how does that come amount as a sensible unit? I'd have expected an integral power of 2!
  131. # [18:19] <SimonSapin> gsnedders: gecko layout works on integers of 1/60 px
  132. # [18:19] <gsnedders> Oh, ok.
  133. # [18:20] <SimonSapin> 60 is nice since it has many factors
  134. # [18:20] <SimonSapin> so 1.1px is exact, for example
  135. # [18:21] <gsnedders> Presto just used Q25.7 I believe in the branch that never shipped.
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  143. # [19:00] <TabAtkins> And Blink switched to match Gecko for our LayoutUnits.
  144. # [19:00] <TabAtkins> But yeah, 60 is a great base. Powers of 2 are good for computers, but suck when dealing with humans.
  145. # [19:01] <TabAtkins> 60 is evenly divided by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 10, so we can keep exact fractions when a px length is subdivided by one of those fractions.
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  152. # [19:22] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: how is it actually represented internally, though, and how do you do maths with such a non-binary base? store fractional part separately?
  153. # [19:23] <dauwhe> Is it still common practice to use non-HTML examples in specs?
  154. # [19:26] <TabAtkins> gsnedders: It's an integer number of LayoutUnits. A single LayoutUnit is 1/60th of a px
  155. # [19:26] <TabAtkins> dauwhe: Not really. I've never used non-HTML in an example.
  156. # [19:32] <plinss> TabAtkins: I updated the spec parser to fix the missing HTML elements and get rid of the dupes in SVG
  157. # [19:32] <TabAtkins> plinss: Cool!
  158. # [19:33] <plinss> unfortunately removing the dupes in SVG also removed a few elements, I can’t reliably detect the difference between definitions (which aren’t <dfn>s) and uses in examples.
  159. # [19:33] <TabAtkins> Ugh, SVG.
  160. # [19:33] <plinss> Ideally, we really need to make a few tweaks in the spec’s markup
  161. # [19:33] <plinss> like change some <span>s to <dfn>s
  162. # [19:33] <TabAtkins> Well, dupes are more harmful than holes. Bikeshed just can't deal with dupes in an anchor source; it'll warn endlessly with no way to shut it up.
  163. # [19:34] <TabAtkins> Right.
  164. # [19:34] <TabAtkins> SVG is just being really sloppy right now.
  165. # [19:34] <plinss> yeah, that’s what I figured
  166. # [19:34] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: ah
  167. # [19:35] <TabAtkins> gsnedders: Yeah, we lose all precision below that.
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  169. # [19:40] <TabAtkins> zcorpan_: I'm unsure of how to use critic. Do I add line comments in GitHub, or do something in the critic interface, or...?
  170. # [19:42] <zcorpan_> TabAtkins: you can ignore critic if you like and review in github instead. but if you want to learn it i can help
  171. # [19:42] <TabAtkins> Don't care, whatever seems like the best approach. I'm not planning to use critic for my own stuff, but if it'll be useful in general, I can learn it.
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  173. # [19:43] <zcorpan_> TabAtkins: it will be useful if you want to review stuff for web-platform-tests in the future :-)
  174. # [19:43] <TabAtkins> All right then, might as well give me a primer.
  175. # [19:44] <TabAtkins> Ah, didn't realize I was supposed to be reviewing the tests, not the spec.
  176. # [19:46] <zcorpan_> TabAtkins: ok you start by signing in at the top, it authenticates using github
  177. # [19:46] <TabAtkins> Also, is it really interoperable that "color: 11;" and "color: 1a;" are valid, but "color: a1;" is invalid?
  178. # [19:46] <TabAtkins> Yup, logged in before.
  179. # [19:47] <zcorpan_> TabAtkins: i think blink actually uses the representation for <dimension-token> but we don't want that
  180. # [19:47] <zcorpan_> TabAtkins: <ident-token> is interoperably 3 or 6 chars in gecko/blink
  181. # [19:47] <TabAtkins> Yeah, whatevs, I'm asking about the fact that <number-token> and <dimension-token> are allowed to be any length >= 6, but <ident-token> is only 3/6 chars.
  182. # [19:47] <TabAtkins> Okay.
  183. # [19:47] <TabAtkins> So weird.
  184. # [19:48] <zcorpan_> i agree that it is weird
  185. # [19:49] <zcorpan_> ok next you click on the commit you want to review. (if you want to review several commits at once you can drag and drop)
  186. # [19:49] <TabAtkins> I mean, I'm not looking for logical consistency in quirks, just making sure it wasn't an unintentional oversight. ^_^
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  188. # [19:49] <TabAtkins> Yeah, I'm in the commit.
  189. # [19:49] <TabAtkins> r/3374
  190. # [19:49] <zcorpan_> then you either hit 'e' to expand all files or you click on the file you want to review
  191. # [19:50] <zcorpan_> drag and drop over the lines you want to raise an issue for
  192. # [19:51] <zcorpan_> when you are done commenting a file, click the checkbox or hit space when you're at the bottom of the screen to mark it as reviewed (whether there are issues or not, you should mark it as reviewed)
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  195. # [19:52] <zcorpan_> TabAtkins: the weirdest part about this quirk is that scientific notation screws it over :-)
  196. # [19:53] <TabAtkins> scinot screws over everything expecting to reparse numbers.
  197. # [19:53] <TabAtkins> Really not clear if I'll actually be able to avoid using representation for unicode-range.
  198. # [19:53] <TabAtkins> Unlike quirks, we actually want to support all values.
  199. # [19:54] <zcorpan_> yeah urange is pretty unfortunate
  200. # [19:54] <zcorpan_> would be better if it just skipped the +
  201. # [19:55] <TabAtkins> Yeah, the + isn't a problem.
  202. # [19:55] <TabAtkins> It's that u+5e4-5e6 is fucked.
  203. # [19:56] <zcorpan_> u5e4 - u5e6 would have worked
  204. # [19:56] <TabAtkins> Yeah, because idents preserve their source representation (module escapes)
  205. # [19:57] <TabAtkins> Oh, I see what you're saying.
  206. # [19:57] <TabAtkins> If we'd gone with that syntax from the beginning, we'd be better off.
  207. # [19:57] <TabAtkins> Yeah.
  208. # [19:57] <zcorpan_> right
  209. # [19:59] <zcorpan_> so anyway when you are done reviewing the commit you send it using a button at the top right. when all commits are reviewed and there are no open issues the review is accepted
  210. # [19:59] <zcorpan_> if a commit changes a line you have commented the issue is automatically resolved
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  212. # [20:01] <zcorpan_> have to go. ask jgraham for any further critic help
  213. # [20:01] <zcorpan_> and thanks!
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  233. # [21:31] <Florian> plinss: Thanks. Fixed, and now it works. Just need someone to review it now.
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  237. # [22:15] <dauwhe> sylvaing: Does the French language ever use "+" and ";" as quotation marks? There are some weird examples in GenCon that do this.
  238. # [22:16] <SimonSapin> dauwhe: not that I’ve ever seen
  239. # [22:18] <dauwhe> SimonSapin: GenCon has Il disait: + Il faut mettre l’action en ‹ fast forward ›.;
  240. # [22:18] <dauwhe> I'm getting suspicious of the Norwegian as well
  241. # [22:19] <TabAtkins> I'm always suspicious of Norwegians. What are they hiding in those snowy mountains?
  242. # [22:20] <SimonSapin> this looks very weird to me
  243. # [22:26] <dauwhe> TabAtkins: A baby king named Håkon Håkonsson
  244. # [22:26] <TabAtkins> Born of man, to lead the Kingdom in revenge against the Danes.
  245. # [22:30] <dauwhe> TabAtkins: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birkebeinerrennet#History
  246. # [22:31] <TabAtkins> !_!
  247. # [22:46] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  248. # [22:46] <Florian> dauwhe: One more french here. I've never seen + ; used as quotes
  249. # [22:48] <Florian> « and » (U+00AB and U+00BB) are what I'd normally expect
  250. # [22:49] <Florian> + and ; have the same meaning as in english
  251. # [22:52] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak) ("Going to throw glitter at unicorns")
  252. # [23:02] <dauwhe> Florian: Thanks. The spec is showing + and ; for Norwegian, too. I've already changed the French.
  253. # [23:03] <dauwhe> Florian: +Trøndere gråter når <Vinsjan på kaia> blir deklamert.;
  254. # [23:07] <tantek> very strange
  255. # [23:10] <Florian> I don't know if Norwegian uses "" or the same as French
  256. # [23:11] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak)
  257. # [23:12] <tantek> Florian - pretty sure last time I checked this (late 1990s? early 2000?), Norwegian also used ""
  258. # [23:13] <tantek> it was late 1990s. I did a bunch of research into what languages have what quote marks when implementing the <q> tag in IE5/Mac
  259. # [23:13] <tantek> which requires the browser *automatically* show quotation marks
  260. # [23:13] <dauwhe> Wikipedia says Norwegian uses «…» and ’…’
  261. # [23:13] <tantek> which meant I had to figure out what were the right quotation marks to show based on the "lang" of the parent of the <q>
  262. # [23:16] <tantek> dauwhe - what does Norwegian Wikipedia say? ;)
  263. # [23:16] <Florian> wikipedia articles *in norwegian* also use both «…» and "..."
  264. # [23:17] <dauwhe> tantek: being a provincial American (but I repeat myself), I was looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_variation_in_quotation_marks
  265. # [23:17] <tantek> wow I wish I had that page in 1999 :(
  266. # [23:17] <Florian> I guess in the 90s you didn't use wikipedia for that
  267. # [23:17] <tantek> it didn't exist :(
  268. # [23:24] * Quits: plh (plehegar@public.cloak) ("Leaving")
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  272. # [23:47] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
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  277. # Session Close: Fri Dec 05 00:00:00 2014

The end :)