/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2014-12-11 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Dec 11 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #css
  3. # [00:12] <liam> the Queen needs to make Timbl into an Earl, :)
  4. # [00:12] <TabAtkins> Timblearl?
  5. # [00:15] <liam> heh :)
  6. # [00:15] <liam> and he cound say it eee yew ur ell
  7. # [00:17] * liam goes back to indexes, want to have a concrete proposal soon
  8. # [00:32] <dauwhe> http://chanae.walon.org/pub/ttf/ttf_glyphs.htm
  9. # [00:36] <TabAtkins> plinss: Working on the autolinking code a bit more, and ended up with a feature request for Shepherd (+ a minor one for widlparser).
  10. # [00:36] <TabAtkins> If you have an IDL method like "foo(DOMString bar, optional long baz)", you can link to it normally with the normalized name, "foo(bar, baz)". This is standard widlparser output.
  11. # [00:37] <TabAtkins> But I'd like to also allow linking to other valid call signatures, such as "foo(bar)" in this case, due to the fact that "baz" is optional.
  12. # [00:39] <TabAtkins> I'm doing that manually right now in Bikeshed, forcing it to generate multiple linking texts. That's annoying if you're providing the "real" definition somewhere other than the IDL, though.
  13. # [00:39] <TabAtkins> So point is, I'd like to be able to indicate the "length" of an IDL method/constructor/etc, meaning the number of required arguments.
  14. # [00:41] <TabAtkins> (This only requires widlparser work because non-Bikeshed specs that you're parsing and extracting IDL from need to have this show up in their data as well.)
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  16. # [00:56] <Florian> This mail is asking why we don't have "box-sizing: margin-box", and wondering if the answer has something to do with margin collapsing http://www.w3.org/mid/F3BE4F97-07F7-494F-AD7B-C698EDC109C6@idreamincode.co.uk
  17. # [00:57] <Florian> I guess that yes, that's why. But no-one replied, and we may want to handle this is the disposition of comments as a rejected suggestion
  18. # [00:58] <Florian> tantek: ^
  19. # [00:58] <tantek> hmm - I think these days I would reply with could you link to a concrete use case rather than theoretical? E.g. where someone is attempting a layout effect like this with JS.
  20. # [00:58] <tantek> if not, I would reject as no evidence of real world use case
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  22. # [00:59] <tantek> if not disposition of comments, then at least an FAQ
  23. # [00:59] <tantek> g2g meeting ttyl
  24. # [01:06] <Florian> dbaron & hixie provided a decent enough use case: "tables which specify margins and want to be 100% the width of the parent (since 'width:auto' on tables triggers the automatic layout algorithm and not the normal horizontal box model calculations)."
  25. # [01:06] <tantek> again, theoretical
  26. # [01:06] <tantek> my request is for a URL that actually attempts such a technique
  27. # [01:07] <tantek> that would be "evidence" of a "real world" use-case
  28. # [01:07] <tantek> beyond just a conceptual use-case
  29. # [01:07] <tantek> I'm at the point now where I reject conceptual use-cases
  30. # [01:07] <tantek> or rather, file them away as "future ideas"
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  32. # [01:13] <fantasai> Florian: That use case is solved by width: fill-available
  33. # [01:13] <fantasai> Florian: or could be
  34. # [01:13] <Florian> or calc
  35. # [01:13] <fantasai> Florian: honestly, 'width: auto' on tables shouldn't have triggered auto table algo
  36. # [01:13] <fantasai> Florian: But I'm guessing that's not Web-compatible at this point :/
  37. # [01:14] <Florian> as I'm reading hixie, it wasn't in 1999
  38. # [01:14] <tantek> width:auto-table; /* :P */
  39. # [01:15] <Florian> "width:100%; margin: 0 20px; box-sizing:margin-box" can be done as "margin:auto; width: calc(100% - 40px);"
  40. # [01:16] <Florian> so yeah, I am not asking for the feature to be implemented now. Just flagging a mail as relevant for a disposition of comment
  41. # [01:16] <TabAtkins> Right, but the whole point of box-sizing was to avoid using calc()s everywhere for simple box-model calculations.
  42. # [01:16] <TabAtkins> But yeah, width:fill-available does the job.
  43. # [01:16] <Florian> yes, but this is just for table
  44. # [01:16] <TabAtkins> ?
  45. # [01:16] <TabAtkins> What do you mean by "this" in that sentence?
  46. # [01:17] <Florian> The only realistic use case listed for box-sizing: margin-box is for % sized tables with margins
  47. # [01:18] <Florian> if that's just it, calc will do
  48. # [01:18] <Florian> if there's more, then it's another story
  49. # [01:19] <TabAtkins> Well, you can only really use it when you know there's no margin collapsing, like horizontal margins in block layout, or margins in flex layout.
  50. # [01:19] <TabAtkins> So it's not very reasonable as a value in general, since you can't guarantee that.
  51. # [01:23] <Florian> Hixie pretends that margin collapsing would actually not be an issue: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/1999Nov/0037.html
  52. # [01:23] <Florian> (not that I actually want the feature, but according to him, that's not an argument)
  53. # [01:25] <Florian> his argument makes sense to me, but this is margin collapsing after all, so there may well me something that escapes me.
  54. # [01:29] <Florian> @media (time > 1:30am) { #florian { position: collapse; } }
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  58. # [01:48] <plinss> TabAtkins: I should be able to add supoort for that. Basically just auto-generate extra linking text for optional forms of the method call, right?
  59. # [01:48] <TabAtkins> Yeah.
  60. # [01:48] <plinss> ok
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  63. # [01:57] <TabAtkins> plinss: Also, construct.fullName crashes on stringifiers without names. ^_^
  64. # [01:57] <plinss> TabAtkins: hmm, ok, I’ll check that
  65. # [01:58] <TabAtkins> It gets a None and tries to concat it with a string, line 1131 of productions.py
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  74. # [03:01] <plinss> TabAtkins: so, on a stringifier without a name… what should the fullName be? <interface-name>/stringifier?
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  78. # [03:28] <TabAtkins> Hm, that potentially collides with an attribute named "stringifier".
  79. # [03:29] <TabAtkins> I mean, whatever name we give it will potentially collide with *something*, since it doesn't currently have a name reserved. Maybe we can go Python-style and use __stringifier__?
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  81. # [03:30] <TabAtkins> (The same problem likely applies to getter/etc which can be nameless.)
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  83. # [03:58] <plinss> TabAtkins: sounds reasonable, let’s try that and see how it works
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  89. # [05:15] <plinss> TabAtkins: widlparser updated, shepherd now adds linking text for all the ways you can call a method, reparsing the specs now
  90. # [05:18] <TabAtkins> Cool, thanks!
  91. # [05:20] <plinss> np
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  122. # [11:59] <Florian> If I want to send an image to www-style, what's the right place to put it again? Send to archive@w3.org and link to that? I could host in my own domain, but I suppose we want links to be as long lasting as possible.
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  124. # [12:00] <glazou> Florian: lists.w3.org deals with attachments IIRC
  125. # [12:00] <Florian> Yeah, but I though it was poor etiquette to put attachements on a mailing list
  126. # [12:01] <Florian> s/tough/thought/
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  128. # [12:05] <zcorpan> i think it is usual to send large attachments to www-archive and then link to it
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  181. # [19:43] <sgalineau> Florian: afaik, what zcorpan said is the usual pattern
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  215. # [22:34] <shepazu> TabAtkins, fantasai, Brian Kardell asked if y'all (and the CSS WG) would be open to allowing annotations (with our new experimental interface) on Selectors 4
  216. # [22:36] <TabAtkins> I dunno, maybe. Why?
  217. # [22:43] <shepazu> TabAtkins, for his Chapters idea… it's an easier way of reviewing a spec, and reviewing comments in the context of the spec
  218. # [22:43] <shepazu> TabAtkins, were you on the SVG call when I mentioned it?
  219. # [22:44] <TabAtkins> Yeah.
  220. # [22:44] <TabAtkins> I pulled up the Annotations spec.
  221. # [22:46] <tantek> if we're entertaining more JS embeds on generated specs, then perhaps displaying received webmentions would be good to - and allow for distributed annotations with curl verifiable permalinks
  222. # [22:46] <tantek> s/good to/good too
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  224. # [22:53] <shepazu> TabAtkins, you of all people would know this… is there a set of unicode characters that are effectively horizontal? like, H would be I, A would be >, etc.?
  225. # [22:56] <shepazu> like this, but horizontal instead of upside down? http://www.web2generators.com/text/write_upside_down What's the term for that kind of Unicode hack… it's not zalgo...
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  228. # [23:09] <shepazu> tantek, fine by me, so long as there's somebody who would help build and maintain the software to do the webmentions. I frequently see blog posts about a particular spec that don't contain feedback that the author doesn't send to the WG, so it might be useful
  229. # [23:10] <shepazu> on the flip side, featuring a bunch of inbound links might also be overwhelming to the WG or to spec readers, especially if the article is just talking about the spec and not giving feedback
  230. # [23:11] <shepazu> so, there might be some curation about what's shown
  231. # [23:12] <shepazu> tantek, it's worth noting that one reason we're doing spec annotations is because we're standardizing various aspects of them at W3C… is anyone interested in standardizing webmention here?
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  234. # [23:23] <tantek> shepazu - yes - the Social Web WG is looking at webmention since it's fairly well deployed compared to other social web protocols that we're analyzing.
  235. # [23:24] <tantek> and yes, key to webmentions success so far has been how you distinguish a plain "mention" (just a link) from comments, tags, etc.
  236. # [23:24] <tantek> the receiver has choice of what to display, how much etc.
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  241. # Session Close: Fri Dec 12 00:00:00 2014

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