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  1. # Session Start: Wed Jan 14 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #css
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  6. # [00:10] <Florian> tantek: tabAtkins and I just worked out https://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css3-ui?&#issue-70 on the mailing list. I am not entirely sure this requires a WG resolution, what do you think?
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  157. # [17:57] * plinss changes topic to 'logs: https://log.csswg.org/irc.w3.org/css/today - 2015-01-14 telcon http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Jan/0247.html'
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  162. # [17:57] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/01/14-css-irc
  163. # [17:58] <plinss> zakim, this will be style
  164. # [17:58] <Zakim> ok, plinss, I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM already started
  165. # [17:58] <Zakim> -??P16
  166. # [17:58] <plinss> rrsagent, make logs public
  167. # [17:58] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, plinss
  168. # [17:58] <Zakim> +BradK
  169. # [17:58] <glazou> Zakim, who is on the phone?
  170. # [17:58] <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P21, BradK
  171. # [17:58] <Zakim> +plinss
  172. # [17:58] <glazou> Zakim, ??P21 is me
  173. # [17:58] <Zakim> +glazou; got it
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  177. # [17:59] <Zakim> +Florian
  178. # [17:59] <Zakim> +SylvaIng
  179. # [17:59] <Zakim> +??P26
  180. # [17:59] <Zakim> +??P38
  181. # [17:59] <murakami> zakim, ??P26 is me
  182. # [17:59] * Joins: gregwhitworth (~gregwhitworth@public.cloak)
  183. # [17:59] <Zakim> +murakami; got it
  184. # [18:00] <adenilson> Zakim, ??P38 is me.
  185. # [18:00] <Zakim> +adenilson; got it
  186. # [18:00] <Zakim> +??P40
  187. # [18:00] <kwkbtr> Zakim, ??P40 is me
  188. # [18:00] <Zakim> +kwkbtr; got it
  189. # [18:01] <Zakim> +??P10
  190. # [18:01] <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
  191. # [18:01] <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
  192. # [18:01] <zcorpan> Zakim, mute ??P10
  193. # [18:01] <Zakim> ??P10 should now be muted
  194. # [18:01] <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
  195. # [18:01] <Zakim> + +1.206.675.aaaa
  196. # [18:01] <zcorpan> Zakim, ??P10 is me
  197. # [18:01] <Zakim> +zcorpan; got it
  198. # [18:01] <Zakim> + +1.907.315.aabb
  199. # [18:01] <Rossen_> zakim, microsoft has me
  200. # [18:01] <Zakim> +Rossen_; got it
  201. # [18:01] <astearns> zakim, aaaa is me
  202. # [18:01] <Zakim> +astearns; got it
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  204. # [18:02] <gregwhitworth> Zakim, +1.907.315.aabb is me
  205. # [18:02] <Zakim> +gregwhitworth; got it
  206. # [18:02] <Zakim> +fantasai
  207. # [18:04] <Zakim> + +1.281.305.aacc
  208. # [18:04] <TabAtkins> Zakim, aacc is me
  209. # [18:04] <Zakim> +TabAtkins; got it
  210. # [18:04] <glazou> Zakim, mute me
  211. # [18:04] <Zakim> glazou should now be muted
  212. # [18:04] <Zakim> +??P55
  213. # [18:04] <SimonSapin> Zakim, ??P55 is me
  214. # [18:04] <Zakim> +SimonSapin; got it
  215. # [18:05] <fantasai> ScribeNick: fantasai
  216. # [18:05] * Joins: andreyr (~andreyr@public.cloak)
  217. # [18:05] <fantasai> plinss: Anything to add to agenda?
  218. # [18:05] <fantasai> fantasai: Tamil list numbering?
  219. # [18:05] <fantasai> plinss: no
  220. # [18:06] <fantasai> fantasai: K, let's do that one first. Should be quick
  221. # [18:06] <fantasai> plinss: Please suggest items for CSSWG / Project Houdini agendas
  222. # [18:06] <fantasai> Topic: Counter Styles
  223. # [18:06] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Recently pointed out that when we added counter styles for Indian langs, added 8/9 Indian numbering
  224. # [18:06] * fantasai zakim, mute me
  225. # [18:06] * Zakim fantasai should now be muted
  226. # [18:07] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Seems like an unintentional slight
  227. # [18:07] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Tamil is the missing one, impl by only one browser, Firefox,
  228. # [18:07] <Zakim> +SteveZ
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  230. # [18:07] <fantasai> TabAtkins: which is why we left it out
  231. # [18:07] * Joins: vollick (~vollick@public.cloak)
  232. # [18:07] <fantasai> TabAtkins: But I think we should add it in for completeness, and not unintentionally slighting anyone
  233. # [18:08] <fantasai> Florian: I'm usually in favor of trimming specs down, but this seems perfectly valid reason to add it
  234. # [18:08] <fantasai> ?: Exit criteria
  235. # [18:08] <Zakim> +dbaron
  236. # [18:08] <fantasai> TabAtkins: Not yet impl by two, but adding a new counter style is very quick
  237. # [18:08] <TabAtkins> s/?/bradk/
  238. # [18:08] <fantasai> ??: In that case, I have no objection
  239. # [18:08] <TabAtkins> s/??/bradk/
  240. # [18:08] <fantasai> plinss: Any objections?
  241. # [18:08] * fantasai thanks
  242. # [18:08] <fantasai> RESOLVED: Add Tamil back to Counter Styles spec
  243. # [18:08] * fantasai unmute fantasai
  244. # [18:09] <Zakim> +??P2
  245. # [18:09] * fantasai zakim, unmute me
  246. # [18:09] * Zakim fantasai should no longer be muted
  247. # [18:09] * Joins: ChrisL (clilley@public.cloak)
  248. # [18:09] <vollick> Zakim, +??P2 is me
  249. # [18:09] <Zakim> sorry, vollick, I do not recognize a party named '+??P2'
  250. # [18:09] <dbaron> we also have a resolution to go to CR from about a year before
  251. # [18:10] <glazou> Zakim, ??P2 is vollick
  252. # [18:10] <Zakim> +vollick; got it
  253. # [18:10] <fantasai> yeah, but that one kindof got overtaken by xidorn's long list of issues
  254. # [18:10] <Zakim> +ChrisL
  255. # [18:10] <dbaron> ... which were the result of implementation experience...
  256. # [18:10] <fantasai> fantasai: Hang on, for counter styles, we have a resolution from last month to go to CR
  257. # [18:10] * ChrisL hello?
  258. # [18:10] <fantasai> fantasai: Is that in progress, or fell off of the to-do list?
  259. # [18:10] <fantasai> ChrisL: No idea
  260. # [18:10] <fantasai> ChrisL: Will look at it
  261. # [18:11] <ChrisL> will look into it
  262. # [18:11] <fantasai> Topic: Flexbox
  263. # [18:11] <fantasai> Florian: Request raised again about 'order' affecting tab order and speech order
  264. # [18:11] * Joins: antenna (~antenna@public.cloak)
  265. # [18:11] <fantasai> Florian: It was pointed out that there was a reason for this difference.
  266. # [18:11] <fantasai> Florian: And pushed back to ML/wiki
  267. # [18:12] <Florian> http://www.w3.org/mid/CAAWBYDAoGDQGZ9J42nA2zHNWMjJ5WfxDQ=XbuvqBSyM-P4geog@mail.gmail.com
  268. # [18:12] * Joins: alex_antennahouse (~458c94ae@public.cloak)
  269. # [18:12] <fantasai> Florian: There was an answer there, but doesn't really address the reasoning presented for how it currently works
  270. # [18:12] <fantasai> Florian: So, not really making progress...
  271. # [18:12] <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
  272. # [18:12] <alex_antennahouse> I think im ipcaller
  273. # [18:12] <Zakim> + +1.631.398.aadd
  274. # [18:13] <fantasai> TabAtkins: I'm still of the same opinion of the WG, that the spec is right as-is
  275. # [18:13] <fantasai> Florian: I agree. They may have a point, but not really making it.
  276. # [18:13] <ChrisL> I see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Nov/0511.html where tab says "Yeah, I'm supposed to publish it as CR. Just haven't gotten around to it yet."
  277. # [18:13] <fantasai> Rossen: I'm on the same page as well
  278. # [18:13] <fantasai> plinss: Come back to it when Bo Campell is around
  279. # [18:13] <fantasai> Rossen: Will this hold the spec back? We're trying to get the spec back to CR soon
  280. # [18:13] <Zakim> + +33.4.92.38.aaee - is perhaps Jerome
  281. # [18:14] * Bert zakim, aaee is me
  282. # [18:14] * Zakim sorry, Bert, I do not recognize a party named 'aaee'
  283. # [18:14] * Bert zakim, jerome is me
  284. # [18:14] * Zakim +Bert; got it
  285. # [18:14] <fantasai> fantasai: I think it's important to get all the other fixes published
  286. # [18:15] <fantasai> fantasai: I'd prefer to publish and take this up as an issue against the new CR
  287. # [18:15] <fantasai> Rossen_: Don't want to hold publication hostage to this issue
  288. # [18:15] <TabAtkins> ScribeNick: TabAtkins
  289. # [18:15] <TabAtkins> Topic: Grid Layout issues
  290. # [18:15] <fantasai> plinss: How close to publication?
  291. # [18:15] <Zakim> -TabAtkins
  292. # [18:15] <TabAtkins> lolwut
  293. # [18:15] <fantasai> fantasai: Just need to finish up DoC and cross-check
  294. # [18:16] <fantasai> plinss: Ok. We'll come back to this issue with Bo on the call
  295. # [18:16] <Zakim> +TabAtkins
  296. # [18:16] <fantasai> ChrisL, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Dec/0298.html
  297. # [18:17] <plinss> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Jan/0168.html
  298. # [18:17] <fantasai> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Jan/0168.html
  299. # [18:17] * Quits: bradk (~bradk@public.cloak) ("Signing Off. Buh-bye.")
  300. # [18:17] <Zakim> +[Bloomberg]
  301. # [18:17] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Tab and I went through all the issues and made a bunch of fixes and such, need to get WG approval.
  302. # [18:17] <TabAtkins> fantasai: First is about clamping overlarge grids.
  303. # [18:18] <TabAtkins> fantasai: We needed to add a section for what to do if you can't handle a gigantic grid.
  304. # [18:18] <TabAtkins> fantasai: The rule we came up with is that the start and end edges, whichever is outside the bounds, gets shoved back into the grid in the last possible position, while maintaining a span of at least one.
  305. # [18:19] <TabAtkins> fantasai: So if you're totally outside the grid, your span gets truncated to 1 and you're shoved inside. If you're just partially outside, the dangling side gets shoved inside (shrinking your span).
  306. # [18:19] <fantasai> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-grid/#overlarge-grids
  307. # [18:19] <TabAtkins> fantasai: One wrinkle, if you have a huge grid due to a huge repeat(), should you stop the repetition on a whole number of repeats, or just let it stop when you hit the limit, even if it means only a partially-completed repetition at the end.
  308. # [18:20] * Joins: bradk (~bradk@public.cloak)
  309. # [18:20] <TabAtkins> plinss: The text seems fine. It looks like there's no recommended min?
  310. # [18:21] <fantasai> ChrisL, http://www.w3.org/mid/CAAWBYDBaGNm+OK+6Rzf7Ko64k+V2jp_qWzt8Vzr+jUOVibXbZw@mail.gmail.com
  311. # [18:21] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: I previously had text giving a recommended minimum of 1million tracks. Looks like that was removed.
  312. # [18:22] <ChrisL> fantasai, and the disposition of comments is where? was a transition request ever sent?
  313. # [18:22] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Don't think it was really intentional.
  314. # [18:22] <TabAtkins> Rossen_: Let's just add it back; it'll make the feature more testable.
  315. # [18:22] * SimonSapin imagines a test with 9999999 repeats
  316. # [18:22] * ChrisL one million "should be enough for everyone" bring on the one million meme
  317. # [18:23] <SimonSapin> (wrong number of nines)
  318. # [18:23] <fantasai> ChrisL, http://www.w3.org/mid/CAAWBYDB4DcJJqnCTNZOPCkZQdjK2Hi1=iO_Ed-Rc4jtrd68AUw@mail.gmail.com http://www.w3.org/mid/CAAWBYDA858yqtdFFDdMQ=Gcg5WTyyQK=GnHMwPUVvi2Y0XA0vA@mail.gmail.com
  319. # [18:23] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
  320. # [18:23] <TabAtkins> Rossen_: I think I remember something in Flexbox limiting something to two bytes?
  321. # [18:24] <fantasai> ChrisL, no idea about transition requests. The editor sent a request to transition (disguised as a request to publish, but still)
  322. # [18:24] <fantasai> ChrisL, at that point it's up to the staff contacts
  323. # [18:24] <fantasai> afaik
  324. # [18:24] <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: Re-add the mandatory minimum of 1million tracks.
  325. # [18:24] * sgalineau you could just use the highest z-index value in the page. oh wait, that'd be too high.
  326. # [18:24] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Next issue is dropping the "stack" value.
  327. # [18:24] * ChrisL was just asking. no need to be blamey.
  328. # [18:25] * Joins: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak)
  329. # [18:25] <TabAtkins> fantasai: It's not a great value. We think we should just drop it. MS will need a value that puts things in slot 1,1 anyway (which doen't match "stack" behavior), so they can just keep an MS-specific value for that in their UA stylesheet.
  330. # [18:25] * tantek calling Zakim.
  331. # [18:25] <Zakim> +??P17
  332. # [18:26] <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: Drop the "stack" value from Grid.
  333. # [18:26] <tantek> zakim, ??p17 is me
  334. # [18:26] <Zakim> +tantek; got it
  335. # [18:26] <tantek> zakim, mute me
  336. # [18:26] <Zakim> tantek should now be muted
  337. # [18:26] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Next is about minimum size of grid tracks.
  338. # [18:26] * tantek imagines TabAtkins holding a up a pinky while say one meeeeelllyon tracks.
  339. # [18:26] <TabAtkins> fantasai: In the Grid spec, if you have an auto or flex-sized track, you use the largest of the min-contents of the things in the track as the "minimum size" of the track, and then grow it or flex it from there.
  340. # [18:27] <TabAtkins> fantasai: This doesn't work well for items that have a specified minimum size.
  341. # [18:27] <TabAtkins> fantasai: We ahve a min-*:auto value from Flexbox. The idea is to have Grid behave the same way.
  342. # [18:27] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Default behavior would stay the same, due to "auto", but let people override.
  343. # [18:28] <TabAtkins> fantasai: This allows "auto" in minmax() - minmax(auto, foo) means "use the specified min-* property value", and that "auto" on its own expands to "minmax(auto, auto)".
  344. # [18:29] <TabAtkins> plinss: Seems fine, but it look like there's a few subtleties I haven't wrapped my head around.
  345. # [18:29] <TabAtkins> fantasai: I had Peter Salas look over the algorithm, and made some fixes. I think the algo ends up fine.
  346. # [18:29] <TabAtkins> plinss: Any impls have any opinions?
  347. # [18:29] <TabAtkins> Rossen_: We were part of the discussion, and were fine with it.
  348. # [18:30] <Zakim> -adenilson
  349. # [18:30] <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: Allow "auto" in minmax(), have it look at min-width/height for value, using same "auto" behavior as flexbox.
  350. # [18:30] <Zakim> +??P18
  351. # [18:30] <adenilson> Zakim, ??P18 is me.
  352. # [18:30] <Zakim> +adenilson; got it
  353. # [18:30] <TabAtkins> fantasai: One issue in many grid systems is to allow as many columns as there is space.
  354. # [18:31] <TabAtkins> fantasai: But right now repeat() only allows a fixed number of repetitions.
  355. # [18:31] <Zakim> -zcorpan
  356. # [18:31] <TabAtkins> fantasai: We propose adding repeat(auto, ...) to solve this case.
  357. # [18:31] <Zakim> +??P10
  358. # [18:31] <zcorpan> zakim, mute ??P10
  359. # [18:31] <Zakim> ??P10 should now be muted
  360. # [18:31] <zcorpan> zakim, ??P10 is me
  361. # [18:31] <Zakim> +zcorpan; got it
  362. # [18:32] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: For example, a catalog display that auto-flows things into a grid; each item is 200px, but you don't know how many columns that would end up using.
  363. # [18:32] <TabAtkins> fantasai: And it's easy to calculate, because things are fixed-size.
  364. # [18:33] <TabAtkins> plinss: Makes sense.
  365. # [18:33] <TabAtkins> plinss: One thing that might make sense is [I don't understand what he's saying].
  366. # [18:34] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: Send an email with an example?
  367. # [18:34] <gregwhitworth> *I like whiteboards for these types of discussions
  368. # [18:34] <fantasai> plinss: Having one auto-sized track, and then filling the rest of the grid with auto-counted track
  369. # [18:34] <gregwhitworth> yeah and email would be nice
  370. # [18:34] <fantasai> plinss: Number of auto-counted tracks would depend on width of first track
  371. # [18:34] <fantasai> plinss: but maybe too complex for now
  372. # [18:34] <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: Accept repeat(auto, ...) syntax.
  373. # [18:34] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Next is justifying grid tracks.
  374. # [18:35] <TabAtkins> fantasai: An impl brought up application of 'stretch' and 'space-between'/etc in Flexbox, and whether they apply to Grid.
  375. # [18:35] <TabAtkins> fantasai: In Grid we originally treated the entire grid as a fixed box that got centered or whatever, but it was pointed out that it's useful to be able to justify the tracks.
  376. # [18:35] <TabAtkins> fantasai: So if you have X tracks taking up *almost* the container's width, it's useful to fill the leftover space between the tracks.
  377. # [18:36] <TabAtkins> fantasai: So we changed the spec to make the individual tracks be the alignment subjects.
  378. # [18:36] <TabAtkins> fantasai: The "line" separating tracks can have "thickness", sorta, with the distribution values.
  379. # [18:36] <TabAtkins> fantasai: For "stretch", you add a little bit more space to all the tracks at the end, similar to Flexbox.
  380. # [18:37] <TabAtkins> plinss: I'm okay as long as this isn't the default behavior.
  381. # [18:37] <TabAtkins> fantasai: It's not.
  382. # [18:37] <TabAtkins> plinss: Also, how does this interact with gutters?
  383. # [18:37] <fantasai> Actually, we might need to clarify that point :)
  384. # [18:37] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Specified gutters would end up being a minimum separation between tracks.
  385. # [18:38] <TabAtkins> Rossen_: Can we defer resolving this? I'd like more time to think about it.
  386. # [18:38] <TabAtkins> fantasai: You were on the call when we discussed it in December, but sure, if you need more time.
  387. # [18:39] <fantasai> fantasai^: You run the grid sizing algorithm to find the size of the grid tracks, then increase the size of the tracks to handle stretch. This gives you the final grid areas into which you lay out the grid items
  388. # [18:39] <Zakim> -SteveZ
  389. # [18:39] <TabAtkins> Topic: unprefixing min/max-content keywords
  390. # [18:40] <TabAtkins> fantasai: We've got this Sizing spec which needs a good bit of work yet to get fully stable; there's a lot of complicated sizing stuff that's not very well-reviewed, with some parts missing, etc.
  391. # [18:40] <TabAtkins> fantasai: It'll take a while to get a lot of the definitions stable and correct.
  392. # [18:40] <TabAtkins> fantasai: But the syntax of min/max-content keywords and what they mean is stable.
  393. # [18:40] <TabAtkins> fantasai: The Grid Layout spec is also using these keywords in grid-template-rows/columns, so once Grid advances a bit we can't change them anyway.
  394. # [18:41] <TabAtkins> fantasai: And min/max-content concepts show up in the engines already (despite some occasional inconsistencies).
  395. # [18:41] <TabAtkins> fantasai: So the keywords are super-useful. It would be nice if people coudl use them. So since we know roughly what they mean, and we're already exposing their potential incompatibilities through layout, we should go ahead and unprefix them now.
  396. # [18:42] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak) ("Snuggling with the puppies")
  397. # [18:42] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Or possibly wait until Grid goes to CR to unprefix them.
  398. # [18:42] <TabAtkins> dbaron: I'm not sure the definitions in the block direction work in all contexts.
  399. # [18:42] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Yeah, I'm unsure what the correct answers always are in the block dimension. In the inline dimensions it's very clear what they mean.
  400. # [18:43] <TabAtkins> dbaron: I think they depend on layout, and I think there are some things that depend on them not depending on layout.
  401. # [18:44] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: height:min-content is basically just "the height after layout".
  402. # [18:44] <TabAtkins> Rossen_: Yeah, height always depends on width in block layout. That shouldn't be anything new.
  403. # [18:45] <TabAtkins> Rossen_: I think we had this discussion in the past, and it was mostly related to orthogonal flows, and what min/max-content mean in that context.
  404. # [18:45] <TabAtkins> Rossen_: We can't get around having some layout dependency for the cross dimension, in logical terms, but the main dimension should always be independnet of layout.
  405. # [18:46] <TabAtkins> Rossen_: So are you currently concerned with them being unprefixed?
  406. # [18:46] * Quits: svillar (~sergio@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  407. # [18:46] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: Well, FF doesn't implement the keywords for 'height' right now.
  408. # [18:47] <TabAtkins> dbaron: I'm a little worried about them ending up as something that makes sense in Flexbox and Grid and doesn't make sense in Block, in the height dimension, but I guess I'm okay with unprefixing them. Though I don't think the block dimension will be very interoperable for a while.
  409. # [18:48] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Yeah, if we could unprefix them for just the inline dimension, we would, but that's effectively impossible. We could put a warning in the spec that says that using it in the block axis might be unstable. Most people will use it in the inline dimension anyway.
  410. # [18:48] <TabAtkins> plinss: I'm a little concerned about having them defined in a spec that wont' be ready for years.
  411. # [18:48] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Well, the entire point of this spec is to define these keywords, moving it around won't help.
  412. # [18:49] <TabAtkins> fantasai: The issue is the complexity in intrinsic sizing in a bunch of edge cases. Table layout is mostly complicated due to intrinsic sizing.
  413. # [18:49] <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: Unprefix min/max-content keywords.
  414. # [18:49] * Joins: thinkxl_ (~thinkxl@public.cloak)
  415. # [18:50] <TabAtkins> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2014Dec/0177.html
  416. # [18:52] <tantek> indeed
  417. # [18:52] <tantek> zakim, unmute me
  418. # [18:52] <Zakim> tantek should no longer be muted
  419. # [18:54] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: Previously we resolved to allow asterisks in :lang(), but per my email (above) I think we shouldn't. The legacy lang behavior for ident-ish things can stay, but as soon as you need an asterisk, which breaks ident parsing, we should require use of strings.
  420. # [18:54] * Quits: thinkxl (~thinkxl@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  421. # [18:54] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: In general, terms defined from outside CSS are represented with strings, as it avoids parsing confusion.
  422. # [18:54] <Florian> mini-grammars not inside quotes tend to get painful eventually (see recent issues with unicode range), so I'm with tab
  423. # [18:54] <Zakim> -adenilson
  424. # [18:54] <TabAtkins> fantasai: I think this is something that will be very rare for authors to run into.
  425. # [18:55] <TabAtkins> Florian: mini-grammars not inside quotes tend to get painful eventually (see recent issues with unicode range), so I'm with tab
  426. # [18:55] <TabAtkins> plinss: So, any objections to requiring string?
  427. # [18:55] <Zakim> +??P18
  428. # [18:55] <Zakim> -??P18
  429. # [18:55] <fantasai> fantasai: s/this/problems with asterisks/
  430. # [18:55] <fantasai> s/run into/run into, but I don't have objections if y'all have a strong opinion/
  431. # [18:55] <Zakim> +??P18
  432. # [18:55] <TabAtkins> RESOLVED: Require quoting :lang() values as a string if they have asterisks.
  433. # [18:55] <adenilson> Zakim, ??P18 is me.
  434. # [18:55] <Zakim> +adenilson; got it
  435. # [18:55] <zcorpan> zakim, unmute me
  436. # [18:55] <Zakim> zcorpan should no longer be muted
  437. # [18:55] <TabAtkins> Topic: 'direction' propagation from <body>
  438. # [18:56] <SimonSapin> TabAtkins, so :lang() syntax is still `<ident> | <string>`?
  439. # [18:56] <TabAtkins> zcorpan: It seems that browsers are propagating 'direction' and 'writing-mode' always from <body>, even if it's set on root element as well.
  440. # [18:56] <zcorpan> https://codereview.chromium.org/758073003
  441. # [18:56] <TabAtkins> zcorpan: So we should just specify the implemented reality.
  442. # [18:56] <zcorpan> Zakim: mute me
  443. # [18:56] <zcorpan> Zakim, mute me
  444. # [18:56] <Zakim> zcorpan should now be muted
  445. # [18:56] * glazou wow, you all sound like aliens
  446. # [18:56] <TabAtkins> fantasai: I wonder what happens when you make the <head> visible?
  447. # [18:57] * tantek glazou depends on the country :p
  448. # [18:57] <zcorpan> probably
  449. # [18:57] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Does it use the <body> direction/writing-mode?
  450. # [18:57] <TabAtkins> dbaron: Gecko does different things in different places. There are 2 or 3 palces in our code where we carea bout the direction on the root, and they're inconsistent with each other.
  451. # [18:57] <glazou> tantek: touché
  452. # [18:57] <TabAtkins> Florian: In general I think we should avoid making <body> special unless there's compat.
  453. # [18:57] <zcorpan> http://software.hixie.ch/utilities/js/live-dom-viewer/saved/3366 - visible head, dir on body
  454. # [18:58] * tantek Florian "in general we should avoid body magic" <-- yeah, avoid those fad diets.
  455. # [18:58] <TabAtkins> fantasai: I want to keep writing-mode consistent with direction.
  456. # [18:58] <TabAtkins> fantasai: I don't *mind* making them inconsistent, but...
  457. # [18:58] <TabAtkins> fantasai: I think the important one to consider here is direction.
  458. # [18:59] <zcorpan> in blink direction and writing-mode are consistent with each other i think
  459. # [18:59] <dbaron> for Gecko doing different things, see https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1071098#c16
  460. # [18:59] * glazou guys, meme editing during the call ?!? ;-)
  461. # [19:00] <TabAtkins> tantek: Does it affect the title element?
  462. # [19:00] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: Yes, th eone on the page. I'm unsure what happens in the browser tab.
  463. # [19:00] <Zakim> -[Bloomberg]
  464. # [19:00] <Zakim> -vollick
  465. # [19:00] * sgalineau glazou, when else did you think it happened?
  466. # [19:00] * glazou good point
  467. # [19:01] <TabAtkins> TabAtkins: In Chrome, <title> in the tab doesn't pay attention to rtl.
  468. # [19:01] * Quits: KeshavP (~KeshavP@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
  469. # [19:01] <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
  470. # [19:01] <TabAtkins> fantasai: What is the percentage of pages that have dir=rtl on the body and not on html tag?
  471. # [19:01] * glazou has to run
  472. # [19:01] * glazou bye people
  473. # [19:01] * tantek is glad to hear glazou is running! :)
  474. # [19:01] <Zakim> -glazou
  475. # [19:01] <TabAtkins> Rossen_: You can have the same thing specified with properties.
  476. # [19:01] * sgalineau needs to go too. see you in....4 weeks
  477. # [19:01] <TabAtkins> fantasai: Yeah, but it's rare and bad practice.
  478. # [19:02] <Zakim> -zcorpan
  479. # [19:02] <Zakim> -SylvaIng
  480. # [19:02] <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
  481. # [19:02] <Zakim> -gregwhitworth
  482. # [19:02] <Zakim> -tantek
  483. # [19:02] <Zakim> -BradK
  484. # [19:02] <Zakim> -dbaron
  485. # [19:02] * Quits: gregwhitworth (~gregwhitworth@public.cloak) ("Page closed")
  486. # [19:02] <Zakim> -fantasai
  487. # [19:02] <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]
  488. # [19:02] <Zakim> -adenilson
  489. # [19:02] <Zakim> -plinss
  490. # [19:02] <Zakim> - +1.631.398.aadd
  491. # [19:02] <Zakim> -TabAtkins
  492. # [19:02] <Zakim> -Bert
  493. # [19:02] <Zakim> -kwkbtr
  494. # [19:02] * Quits: alex_antennahouse (~458c94ae@public.cloak) ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")
  495. # [19:02] <Zakim> -ChrisL
  496. # [19:02] <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
  497. # [19:02] <Zakim> -SimonSapin
  498. # [19:02] <Zakim> -murakami
  499. # [19:02] * Parts: bradk (~bradk@public.cloak) (bradk)
  500. # [19:02] * Quits: glazou (~glazou@public.cloak) (glazou)
  501. # [19:02] <Zakim> -astearns
  502. # [19:02] <Zakim> -Florian
  503. # [19:02] <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
  504. # [19:02] <Zakim> Attendees were BradK, plinss, glazou, Florian, SylvaIng, murakami, adenilson, kwkbtr, [IPcaller], +1.206.675.aaaa, zcorpan, Rossen_, astearns, gregwhitworth, fantasai,
  505. # [19:02] <Zakim> ... +1.281.305.aacc, TabAtkins, SimonSapin, SteveZ, dbaron, vollick, ChrisL, +1.631.398.aadd, +33.4.92.38.aaee, Bert, [Bloomberg], tantek
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  521. # [20:24] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak) ("nn")
  522. # [20:28] * Quits: antenna (~antenna@public.cloak) ("Leaving")
  523. # [20:28] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak) ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
  524. # [20:37] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  525. # [20:44] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  526. # [20:54] * shepazu is now known as shepazu_away
  527. # [21:03] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  528. # [21:06] * shepazu_away is now known as shepazu
  529. # [21:10] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  530. # [21:23] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  531. # [21:23] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  532. # [21:24] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  533. # [21:24] * Parts: Zakim (zakim@public.cloak) (Zakim)
  534. # [21:25] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  535. # [21:26] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  536. # [21:26] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (tantek)
  537. # [21:39] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  538. # [22:11] * shepazu is now known as shepazu_away
  539. # [22:11] * shepazu_away is now known as shepazu
  540. # [22:16] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak)
  541. # [22:36] * Joins: dbaron_ (~dbaron@public.cloak)
  542. # [22:43] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  543. # [23:08] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  544. # [23:09] * Quits: dbaron_ (~dbaron@public.cloak) ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
  545. # [23:11] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak)
  546. # [23:17] * Quits: antonp (~Thunderbird@public.cloak) (antonp)
  547. # [23:43] * shepazu is now known as shepazu_away
  548. # [23:44] * shepazu_away is now known as shepazu
  549. # [23:48] * Quits: plh (plehegar@public.cloak) ("Leaving")
  550. # [23:58] * Quits: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak) ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
  551. # [23:59] * Joins: dbaron (~dbaron@public.cloak)
  552. # Session Close: Thu Jan 15 00:00:00 2015

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