/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2015-02-11 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Feb 11 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #css
  3. # [00:04] <glazou> remember, the meeting is in #fx today
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  11. # [00:53] <sgalineau> anything actually being minuted?
  12. # [00:57] <smfr> sgalineau: #fx please
  13. # [00:57] <sgalineau> smfr: am there. not seeing anything. maybe irccloud is being funky.
  14. # [00:59] <liam> sgalineau, still on break maybe?
  15. # [00:59] <liam> oh you said that already, sorry
  16. # [00:59] <sgalineau> liam: yes, as it turns out
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  18. # [01:00] <sgalineau> liam: or at the beach
  19. # [01:01] <liam> :D
  20. # [01:01] <liam> snow here.
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  42. # [02:39] <fantasai> koji: Hi :)
  43. # [02:40] <fantasai> Question 1:
  44. # [02:40] <fantasai> 'vertical-align' property
  45. # [02:40] <fantasai> should definitely apply to ruby container <ruby>
  46. # [02:40] <fantasai> but should it also apply to <rb>?
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  48. # [02:40] <fantasai> I'm thining it should apply to <rt>, so you can align <rt> with respect to each other
  49. # [02:40] * Parts: smfr (~smfr@public.cloak) (smfr)
  50. # [02:40] * fantasai is unsure about <rb>
  51. # [02:40] <fantasai> it makes things easier if it doesn't apply, I think
  52. # [02:41] <koji> fantasai: hm, that's where my understanding is a bit unreliable...
  53. # [02:42] <koji> when vertical-align is aligned to <ruby>, I assume its baseline is the baseline of <rb>, correct?
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  58. # [02:45] <koji> when you say it applies to <ruby> but not to <rb>, line boxes of <rb> is not affected by the vertical-align of <ruby>?
  59. # [02:47] <koji> if so, that does not sound great, but I'm not sure if my understanding is accurate
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  74. # [04:02] <dbaron> fantasai, btw, regarding text-decorations and selection in Gecko -- Gecko has code specific to determining what color to use for the text-decoration when it's in selected text
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  76. # [04:08] <krit> TabAtkins: Bikeshed used to add a string in the console what you need to add to the spec to let Bikeshed select the right spec for a defintion. It still says which spec, type and name but you can not copy past anymore. Can this change back?
  77. # [04:10] <TabAtkins> krit: You have to put it into a <pre class=link-defaults> block now.
  78. # [04:10] <TabAtkins> krit: I stopped outputting the text for Link Defaults metadata, because it can't handle for='' values.
  79. # [04:10] <krit> TabAtkins: oh, but I still can copy paste from the console but into this <pre>?
  80. # [04:10] <TabAtkins> krit: (The message actually says that, but it's easy to skip past because it looks similar to the old message.)
  81. # [04:11] <TabAtkins> krit: Yeah.
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  84. # [04:14] <krit> TabAtkins: thanks
  85. # [04:15] <fantasai> koji: No, <rb> would be aligned within <ruby>, but you can't align different <rb> differently
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  92. # [04:40] <xidorn> fantasai, koji, I think that means we handle vertical-align on <rb> as if it is always |baseline|, right?
  93. # [04:40] <fantasai> yeah
  94. # [04:40] <fantasai> if that helps
  95. # [04:40] <fantasai> I'm not sure it helps
  96. # [04:40] <fantasai> if you increase the font-size on <rb>, you still have different alignment problems :/
  97. # [04:41] <xidorn> no, I don't think there would be
  98. # [04:41] <xidorn> but if some <span>s inside <rb> have different font-size, then there might be, I guess
  99. # [04:44] <koji> as long as one vertical-align value can be set to all bases in one <ruby>, I think that's sufficient
  100. # [04:44] <koji> does that answer?
  101. # [04:44] <fantasai> yeah
  102. # [04:44] * fantasai thinks so to
  103. # [04:44] <fantasai> too
  104. # [04:45] * koji should learn CSS2 more...
  105. # [04:45] <fantasai> :)
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  107. # [04:45] <fantasai> koji: http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/read
  108. # [04:46] <fantasai> xidorn: ah right the problem was top/bottom alignment of the bases.
  109. # [04:46] <koji> xidorn: I can think of possibilities where author wants center or text-top to base text, so I wish we allow that possibility, but can't think of any scenario where authors want different alignment within single <ruby>
  110. # [04:47] <fantasai> xidorn: what if we defined vertical-align: top/bottom to be within the ruby base container only?
  111. # [04:49] <xidornq> fantasai, let me learn what vertical-align is supposed to do for a bit
  112. # [04:49] <fantasai> okay
  113. # [04:49] * fantasai apologizes that there isn't a better spec for it yet :)
  114. # [04:50] <xidornq> then what would be the top/bottom of the line if there is margin on <rb>s?
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  116. # [04:50] <fantasai> vertical align works like this:
  117. # [04:50] <fantasai> align everything that's not top/bottom
  118. # [04:50] <fantasai> measure from the top to the bottom
  119. # [04:50] * xidornq is now known as xidorn
  120. # [04:51] <fantasai> max(that measurement, size of boxes that are top/bottom)
  121. # [04:51] <fantasai> that gets you height of line
  122. # [04:51] <fantasai> then shift top/bottom boxes to the top/bottom of the line
  123. # [04:51] <fantasai> (roughly)
  124. # [04:51] <fantasai> What I'm suggesting is
  125. # [04:51] <fantasai> that instead of vertical-align: top/bottom on <rb> pushing to top/bottom of the line
  126. # [04:51] <fantasai> we do a local alignment within the <rbc>
  127. # [04:51] <xidorn> normally, inlines do not have block-axis margin, so they can be vertical aligned
  128. # [04:52] <fantasai> they have it, you just don't measure it
  129. # [04:52] <xidorn> but if <rb>'s margin expands the height of <rbc>, what should happen
  130. # [04:53] <fantasai> the <rbc> gets taller
  131. # [04:53] * fantasai goes to get paper
  132. # [04:53] <fantasai> :)
  133. # [05:07] <krit> TabAtkins: Why do I get this warning now and how can I get rid of it by still keeping ''none''? WARNING: Multiple possible 'maybe' refs for 'none'.
  134. # [05:07] <TabAtkins> fantasai: If you run into more obvious "I always want to get this term from this spec" cases, feel free to do edits on the spec-data/readonly/link-defaults.infotree file. You can do it on GitHub and submit a PR automatically, very easy.
  135. # [05:07] <TabAtkins> krit: Because there are a bunch of "none" values it can choose from, same as "auto". Specify the property you want.
  136. # [05:08] <krit> TabAtkins: So I need to add <a for... ?
  137. # [05:08] <TabAtkins> No, just ''foo/none''
  138. # [05:08] <krit> oh, ok thanks
  139. # [05:08] <TabAtkins> You can generally use the foo/bar syntax in the autolinking syntaxes.
  140. # [05:15] <krit> TabAtkins: I get "Multiple possible 'dfn' refs for 'containing block'." even though I added spec:css21; type:dfn; text:containing block already
  141. # [05:15] <krit> TabAtkins: there is no other choice actually
  142. # [05:16] <krit> TabAtkins: and last but not least: Bikeshed now prefers you specify alternate linking texts with the 'lt' attribute, not 'title'
  143. # [05:16] <krit> TabAtkins: which titles does Bikeshed mean?
  144. # [05:17] <krit> TabAtkins: found the title one (but don't understand it)
  145. # [05:23] <xidorn> fantasai, does that also mean descendants of <rb> will also only be aligned within <ruby>?
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  147. # [05:24] <fantasai> xidorn: no idea, I don't have an opinion on this
  148. # [05:25] <TabAtkins> krit: Yeah, sorry, if a spec defines an identical term multiple times, you can't shut Bikeshed up. I'm working with plinss to fix this for specs that are auto-parsed (rather than using Bikeshed, which throws fatal errors if you duplicate definitions). You can add the term to Ignored Terms to silence the error, at least.
  149. # [05:26] <krit> TabAtkins: ah forgot about ignore
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  156. # [06:02] <SimonSapin> dbaron: Is "(More details here.)" at https://wiki.csswg.org/planning/hosting supposed to be a link?
  157. # [06:02] <dbaron> SimonSapin, I think it means "FIXME: Write more details here"
  158. # [06:03] <SimonSapin> ok :)
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  167. # [06:23] <SimonSapin> astearns: I’m just curious: does it help to open pull requests on the draft repo rather than pushing directly?
  168. # [06:23] <TabAtkins> Yes, that's what it means.
  169. # [06:23] <TabAtkins> I also thought it was supposed to be a link at first, though.
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  171. # [06:24] <astearns> SimonSapin: I'm making changes in branches on my own fork of the repo
  172. # [06:24] <astearns> I suppose I could be branching from the main repo, but I've always used a separate fork with git
  173. # [06:25] <TabAtkins> I just push to master on the main repo.
  174. # [06:25] <TabAtkins> yolo
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  178. # [06:36] <astearns> I just flail about in the source-control system I'm given - it would be nice to have a wiki page with recommended step-by-step instructions for editing drafts in git
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  180. # [06:41] <SimonSapin> The usual workflow with a single shared repository and a single branch should Just Work. When it doesn’t, nag plinss :)
  181. # [06:42] <SimonSapin> a pull request can be useful to get review from a (co-)editor before merging
  182. # [06:47] <astearns> SimonSapin: pointer to "the usual workflow"?
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  184. # [06:55] <SimonSapin> astearns: there are tons of guides out there, with various levels of details. what are you familiar with?
  185. # [06:55] <TabAtkins> It should look like you did in hg. You just work in the main branch and push when you feel like.
  186. # [06:55] <TabAtkins> plinss: The Houdini bikeshed errors email is being sent with a subject talking about CSSWG.
  187. # [06:56] <SimonSapin> I don’t really want to write yet another monad^W git tutorial
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  189. # [06:57] <liam> i found http://lea.verou.me/2011/10/easily-keep-gh-pages-in-sync-with-master/ useful fwiw
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  193. # [07:06] <TabAtkins> SimonSapin: But git is just a monad, so you can kill two birds!
  194. # [07:07] <TabAtkins> liam: Nah, that's overcomplicated. If you want to display your master branch, just follow http://www.xanthir.com/b4Zz0
  195. # [07:08] <TabAtkins> I think the instructions in my post weren't possible in 2011.
  196. # [07:08] * liam looks
  197. # [07:09] <liam> i think that's a simpler way of working but not having a master doesn't suit everyone
  198. # [07:09] <liam> (er, so to speak)
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  200. # [07:13] <astearns> SimonSapin: the guides I've been following say to fork, branch, commit, push, pull request, merge
  201. # [07:14] <SimonSapin> I see. That is useful if you don’t have push access to the repository (and someone else merges) or if you want review from someone before merging.
  202. # [07:15] <astearns> might not be a bad idea to require reviews :)
  203. # [07:15] <SimonSapin> several WG members freaked out when I suggested this before
  204. # [07:16] <TabAtkins> I got shit to do, man, i can't wait for reviews
  205. # [07:16] <astearns> so the workflow should be clone, commit, push?
  206. # [07:16] <liam> and you get the problem of absent reviewers
  207. # [07:16] <liam> not accepting the pull requests in time
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  209. # [07:16] <SimonSapin> astearns: right, commit+push should be enough (assuming you already have a clone)
  210. # [07:17] <astearns> ok
  211. # [07:17] <astearns> I suspect requiring reviews for Tab's commits only might get wider approval :)
  212. # [07:17] <SimonSapin> apparently https://mac.github.com/ is a thing, too
  213. # [07:19] <TabAtkins> I've used the windows github software before. Pretty decent.
  214. # [07:19] <astearns> I use the Mac app for some things, but mostly prefer the command line
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  262. # [13:52] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  263. # [14:08] * Quits: johanneswilm (~johannes@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  264. # [14:10] * Quits: jdaggett (~jdaggett@public.cloak) (jdaggett)
  265. # [14:14] * Joins: plh (plehegar@public.cloak)
  266. # [14:15] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  267. # [14:21] * Quits: plh (plehegar@public.cloak) ("Leaving")
  268. # [14:26] * Joins: plh (plehegar@public.cloak)
  269. # [14:27] * Quits: svillar (~sergio@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  270. # [14:55] * Joins: svillar (~sergio@public.cloak)
  271. # [15:08] * Quits: antonp (~Thunderbird@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  272. # [15:25] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  273. # [15:33] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  274. # [15:50] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak)
  275. # [16:24] * Joins: antonp (~Thunderbird@public.cloak)
  276. # [16:30] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  277. # [16:34] * Joins: anssik (~uid10742@public.cloak)
  278. # [16:37] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  279. # [16:58] * Joins: johanneswilm (~johannes@public.cloak)
  280. # [17:33] * Joins: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak)
  281. # [17:34] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  282. # [17:47] * Joins: estellevw_ (~estellevw@public.cloak)
  283. # [17:47] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  284. # [17:47] * estellevw_ is now known as estellevw
  285. # [17:56] * Quits: RRSAgent (rrsagent@public.cloak) (Request too long)
  286. # [17:59] * Joins: bcampbell (~chatzilla@public.cloak)
  287. # [17:59] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  288. # [17:59] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  289. # [18:01] * Joins: estellevw_ (~estellevw@public.cloak)
  290. # [18:05] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  291. # [18:05] * estellevw_ is now known as estellevw
  292. # [18:08] * Quits: estellevw (~estellevw@public.cloak) ("Going to throw glitter at unicorns")
  293. # [18:11] * Quits: svillar (~sergio@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  294. # [18:14] * Quits: lajava (~javi@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  295. # [18:16] * Quits: antonp (~Thunderbird@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  296. # [18:26] * Joins: antonp (~Thunderbird@public.cloak)
  297. # [18:28] * leaverou is now known as leaverou_away
  298. # [18:35] * Joins: antenna (~antenna@public.cloak)
  299. # [18:38] * Quits: antenna (~antenna@public.cloak) ("Leaving")
  300. # [18:47] * Joins: bradk (~bradk@public.cloak)
  301. # [18:50] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  302. # [18:50] * leaverou_away is now known as leaverou
  303. # [18:53] * Quits: bradk (~bradk@public.cloak) ("Signing Off. Buh-bye.")
  304. # [19:00] * Quits: johanneswilm (~johannes@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  305. # [19:00] * Quits: bcampbell (~chatzilla@public.cloak) ("ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 31.4.0/20150105205548]")
  306. # [19:09] * Joins: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak)
  307. # [19:31] * leaverou is now known as leaverou_away
  308. # [19:32] * leaverou_away is now known as leaverou
  309. # [19:40] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  310. # [20:12] * Quits: anssik (~uid10742@public.cloak) ("Connection closed for inactivity")
  311. # [20:29] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  312. # [21:19] * Joins: johanneswilm (~johannes@public.cloak)
  313. # [21:40] * Joins: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak)
  314. # [21:47] * Quits: zcorpan (~zcorpan@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  315. # [22:04] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  316. # [22:16] * Quits: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak) (adenilson)
  317. # [22:26] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  318. # [22:26] * Quits: johanneswilm (~johannes@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  319. # [22:28] * Quits: antonp (~Thunderbird@public.cloak) (antonp)
  320. # [22:28] * Joins: johanneswilm (~johannes@public.cloak)
  321. # [22:29] * Joins: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak)
  322. # [22:34] * Quits: Florian (~Florian@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  323. # [22:38] * Quits: johanneswilm (~johannes@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  324. # [22:46] * Joins: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak)
  325. # [23:23] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
  326. # [23:26] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  327. # [23:29] * Joins: jet (~uid49872@public.cloak)
  328. # [23:30] * Joins: stakagi (~stakagi@public.cloak)
  329. # [23:31] * Quits: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak) (adenilson)
  330. # [23:33] * Joins: adenilson (~anonymous@public.cloak)
  331. # [23:36] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  332. # [23:38] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
  333. # [23:47] * Quits: plh (plehegar@public.cloak) ("Leaving")
  334. # [23:48] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  335. # [23:55] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@public.cloak)
  336. # Session Close: Thu Feb 12 00:00:00 2015

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