/irc-logs / w3c / #css / 2015-02-19 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Feb 19 14:04:02 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #css
  3. # [14:04] * Now talking in #css
  4. # [14:04] * Topic is 'See also #fx for minutes - logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/css - Sydney ftf meeting https://wiki.csswg.org/planning/sydney-2015 (JS only logs: https://log.csswg.org/irc.w3.org/css/today )'
  5. # [14:04] * Set by liam on Tue Feb 10 23:14:57
  6. # [14:25] * Quits: jdaggett (~jdaggett@public.cloak) (jdaggett)
  7. # [14:38] * glazou_f00d is now known as glazou
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  12. # [14:52] <zcorpan> what is TCY? http://www.w3.org/mid/54C69CCC.1030302@inkedblade.net
  13. # [15:03] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  14. # [15:08] <SimonSapin> zcorpan: tate-chu-yoko http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-writing-modes/#text-combine-upright , previously text-combine-horizontal
  15. # [15:09] <zcorpan> thanks
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  19. # [15:16] <bkardell_> Given an instance of a rule, if I change the .selectorText, would you expect it to reflect in the .cssText? Seems to work everywhere but FF... Maybe I'm missing something?
  20. # [15:21] <SimonSapin> bkardell_: selectorText doesn’t seem to be marked readonly, so it looks like a Firefox bug. zcorpan, what do you think?
  21. # [15:22] <SimonSapin> bkardell_: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=37468
  22. # [15:25] <bkardell_> hmm
  23. # [15:26] <bkardell_> so... SimonSapin are you saying that this was opened in 2000 and is still listed as new?
  24. # [15:26] * Joins: lajava (~javi@public.cloak)
  25. # [15:26] <SimonSapin> bkardell_: looks like it
  26. # [15:26] <zcorpan> bkardell_: SimonSapin: it should be reflected in cssText yes
  27. # [15:27] <SimonSapin> bkardell_: it says the setter is not implemented, so not only it’s not reflected in cssText but it probably also doesn’t affect styling
  28. # [15:27] <fantasai> bkardell_: New means "nobody is working on this atm, but it appears to be a valid bug", not "this was just filed" :)
  29. # [15:27] <bkardell_> it doesn't affect styling and it doesn't reflect is what it seems to me
  30. # [15:28] <SimonSapin> yeah, the setter is just a no-op
  31. # [15:28] <SimonSapin> according to the bug’s title
  32. # [15:28] <bkardell_> fantasai yeah I mean "still listed as new" in the sense that everyone agrees it should be easy to fix but it is 15 years old :)
  33. # [15:28] <bkardell_> not literally "new"
  34. # [15:28] <SimonSapin> bkardell_: do you feel like writing C++ code? :)
  35. # [15:29] <zcorpan> bkardell_: https://twitter.com/miketaylr/status/560830736807116800
  36. # [15:29] <bkardell_> SimonSapin does mozilla feel like hiring me?
  37. # [15:29] <bkardell_> lol
  38. # [15:29] <bkardell_> I haven't written C++ in so many years, so no
  39. # [15:30] <fantasai> that's a non-sequitur
  40. # [15:30] <zcorpan> fantasai: ah you're here. i'm looking a bit at this <img>&nbsp; thing
  41. # [15:31] <fantasai> yep?
  42. # [15:31] <zcorpan> fantasai: why would we change U+FFFC to ID?
  43. # [15:32] <fantasai> for consistency with objects, since it's the object replacement character
  44. # [15:32] <fantasai> or at least, it is if I remembered the code correctly :)
  45. # [15:34] <zcorpan> it is, but it seems weird to me to try to outsmart the character classes assigned in Unicode
  46. # [15:35] <fantasai> that one is supposed to be tailored as needed
  47. # [15:35] <fantasai> its job is to represent the objects (images, etc) in the line breaking algo, bidi algo, etc.
  48. # [15:36] <fantasai> so tailoring <img> is equivalent to tailoring U+FFFC, from a Unicode POV
  49. # [15:37] <fantasai> though you can treat different objects differently
  50. # [15:37] <zcorpan> ok so do we want TCY, U+FFFC and replaced elements to have consistent linebreaking, even if web compat only requires something special for replaced elements?
  51. # [15:37] <fantasai> I think we concluded that TCY should follow its contents' line-breaking requirements.
  52. # [15:37] <fantasai> Although that's still debatable.
  53. # [15:38] <fantasai> I've no opinion on U+FFFC vs. images for &nbsp;
  54. # [15:38] <fantasai> whatever is easiest for implementers; I doubt it makes a real difference
  55. # [15:38] <zcorpan> ok
  56. # [15:38] <fantasai> Either way, ignoring the non-breakingness of nbsp is a violation of the line-breaking rules :)
  57. # [15:38] <zcorpan> yes
  58. # [15:39] * fantasai needs to catch up on outstanding spec edits :/
  59. # [15:39] * Joins: glenn (~gadams@public.cloak)
  60. # [15:39] <fantasai> TabAtkins: We ran a survey on naming for CSS Scoping awhile back. Post the results somewhere?
  61. # [15:40] <zcorpan> does this make sense as a proposal for special-casing nbsp? "Treat replaced elements as ID, except for the purpose of UAX14 LB12 (and LB12a ?), U+00A0 before or after must act as if it was the SP class instead of GL."
  62. # [15:41] <fantasai> SP can only break after
  63. # [15:41] <fantasai> so if nbsp<img> breaks
  64. # [15:41] <fantasai> then no, that doesn't work
  65. # [15:41] <zcorpan> ah ok
  66. # [15:41] <fantasai> I don't think it's expressable as a tailorin
  67. # [15:42] <zcorpan> B2 or CB?
  68. # [15:43] <zcorpan> or ID :-)
  69. # [15:46] <fantasai> Tailorings are pretty much just reclassifications.
  70. # [15:46] <fantasai> We're adding a special rule
  71. # [15:46] <fantasai> <img> + SP or S + <img> breaks
  72. # [15:55] <zcorpan> what's S?
  73. # [15:56] <fantasai> sorry
  74. # [15:56] <fantasai> s/SP/NBSP/
  75. # [15:56] <fantasai> s/S/NBSP/
  76. # [15:56] * fantasai totally mistyped that
  77. # [15:56] <zcorpan> ok
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  81. # [16:02] <zcorpan> <replaced element> ÷ <NBSP>
  82. # [16:02] <zcorpan> <NBSP> ÷ <replaced element>
  83. # [16:02] <zcorpan> …before LB12
  84. # [16:02] * Joins: anssik (~uid10742@public.cloak)
  85. # [16:06] <fantasai> yes, I think that's right...
  86. # [16:07] * fantasai looks at LB12a and wonders why it exists
  87. # [16:19] <glazou> bkardell_: known issue in Gecko… for BlueGriffon I had to make a hacky workaround
  88. # [16:20] <bkardell_> glazou yeah I made some workaround already
  89. # [16:22] <glazou> ugly but necessary for gecko :-/
  90. # [16:22] <zcorpan> filed https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=460053
  91. # [16:22] <glazou> bkardell_: so you’re ok with my public-houdini message ?
  92. # [16:22] <bkardell_> glazou, yes
  93. # [16:22] <glazou> cool
  94. # [16:23] <bkardell_> I mean, that is what I was thinking too in the long term
  95. # [16:33] <glazou> good
  96. # [16:45] <bkardell_> glazou basically I was thinking that if the parser were in place in a good way though, you could kind of prollyfill many other proposals, so that would be super empowering and generate excitement
  97. # [16:45] <bkardell_> seems impractical though, I agree
  98. # [16:46] * shepazu_ is now known as shepazu
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  100. # [17:12] <glazou> I sooooo love when a kid calls saying « dad, can you come, I think I’m sick »
  101. # [17:12] <glazou> sigh
  102. # [17:13] <glazou> bbl, then :-/
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  114. # [19:05] <shepazu> TabAtkins, I don't understand serious Twitter users
  115. # [19:05] <TabAtkins> ?
  116. # [19:06] <shepazu> the request to "de-thread" someone on a brief exchange that was already done
  117. # [19:06] <TabAtkins> I didn't realize it was done. It clearly could have gone on.
  118. # [19:06] <TabAtkins> I've made that kind of request before.
  119. # [19:07] <shepazu> TabAtkins, that's what I don't understand :)
  120. # [19:07] <TabAtkins> It clogs up your mentions, and pings your notifications. When the thread isn't actually interesting to you, that's annoying.
  121. # [19:08] <shepazu> I don't use Twitter that way, I just post a few short messages, and only occasionally
  122. # [19:09] <shepazu> I don't understand the "public diary" aspect of Twitter
  123. # [19:09] <TabAtkins> I definitely use it that way.
  124. # [19:09] <TabAtkins> (the "public diary" way)
  125. # [19:11] <shepazu> TabAtkins, maybe it's the "public monolog" thing I don't get... anyway, carry on, I was just bemused, for I am old
  126. # [19:12] <TabAtkins> Interestingly, you follow a ton of people. I presume you just sample the stream on occasion?
  127. # [19:12] <TabAtkins> My 200 or so follows are right at the limit of what I can read all of.
  128. # [19:22] <shepazu> TabAtkins, yeah, really, I only look at Twitter once every few days
  129. # [19:23] <gsnedders> heh, I had friends claiming surely it was a bit mean to not follow people I know IRL who follow me. But I just can't keep up with more than ~200.
  130. # [19:23] <gsnedders> (hah, I'm actually dead on 200 follows atm)
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  136. # [19:36] <plinss> SimonSapin: yes, it’s bidirectional
  137. # [19:45] <shepazu> gsnedders, TabAtkins, I'm often most interested in what people I don't know well have to say
  138. # [19:45] * liam tends to look at twitter less than once a month
  139. # [19:45] <liam> typically around conferences
  140. # [19:47] <TabAtkins> gsnedders: FUCK THE FOLLOWBACK SQUAD
  141. # [19:50] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: GO THE (kinda incestuous) RETWEETING SQUAD.
  142. # [19:50] <TabAtkins> Yesssssssss
  143. # [20:15] <liam> everyone knows team name14 is better than team name7 :)
  144. # [20:21] <mdmcginn> TabAtkins: do you use an RSS feed reader, or do you use Twitter the way people used to use feed readers?
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  150. # [20:45] <TabAtkins> mdmcginn: Both.
  151. # [20:46] * leaverou is now known as leaverou_away
  152. # [20:47] <TabAtkins> Twitter works great as a random-access feed reader, giving me stories from across the internet. Then my actual feed reader gives me the focused stories from specific sites I know that I like. ^_^
  153. # [20:47] <TabAtkins> liam: Actually, gsnedders and I are both part of team name9.
  154. # [20:48] <liam> :D :D
  155. # [20:53] <liam> yay firefox menus are working again, back to work
  156. # [20:53] <liam> (while chrome updates itself)
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  181. # [23:17] <dbaron> plinss, so it's pretty common for hg pushes to the csswg.org repos to hang for me, after the changesets have actually been accepted into the repository
  182. # [23:17] <dbaron> plinss, hg is currently in that state with a push I just made to hg.csswg.org/test
  183. # [23:17] <dbaron> plinss, I wonder if it's worth seeing what's running on the server
  184. # [23:31] <TabAtkins> dbaron: Yeah, I'd get that all the time. It'd hang for 5 minutes or so; I always just Ctrl-C'd it away, because it was already committed.
  185. # [23:31] <dbaron> it's presumably a hang in one of the server-side hooks
  186. # [23:32] <dbaron> but it also means those hooks probably are failing somehow, which means shepherd might be out of date or something like that...
  187. # [23:39] <shepazu> Ms2ger, fyi, I'm prepping a new draft of Web MIDI API, with a corrected Editor's Draft link, and it'll be out in a few days
  188. # [23:45] <dbaron> ok, had to kill that hg push
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  191. # [23:45] <dbaron> ok, had to kill that hg push
  192. # [23:48] <gregwhitworth> is anyone else not able to access the dev docs?
  193. # [23:48] <gregwhitworth> http://jsfiddle.net/jL7t19nd/1/
  194. # [23:48] <gregwhitworth> wrong paste
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  196. # [23:48] <TabAtkins> dbaron: Last time I talked to plinss about that, he said it wasn't a hang, it was just that the script was waiting for the server to do a bunch of stuff (rebuilding a bunch of specs) before returning. It's badly written, but killing the script has no effect.
  197. # [23:49] <gregwhitworth> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-flexbox-1/
  198. # [23:49] <Ms2ger> shepazu, ta
  199. # [23:49] <shepazu> Ms2ger, thanks for bringing it to my attention
  200. # [23:49] <TabAtkins> gregwhitworth: I'm getting a hang, too.
  201. # [23:50] <gregwhitworth> sorry Holbert, no discussion for you :)
  202. # [23:50] <Ms2ger> shepazu, always happy to complain :)
  203. # [23:50] <gregwhitworth> I'll just go to git
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  206. # [23:52] <TabAtkins> gregwhitworth: Ah, works now.
  207. # [23:53] <TabAtkins> gregwhitworth: Takes a while. I also loaded it up on drafts.csswg.org/css-flexbox-1; unsure if dev.w3.org has separate problems. Trying to load it up now.
  208. # [23:54] <gregwhitworth> TabAtkins: Even after flushing dns, it's still crawling for me
  209. # [23:54] <gregwhitworth> I'll just look at it through git, no worries - but wanted to make sure someone knew about it
  210. # [23:55] <TabAtkins> It's definitely *crawling*, it just works after 2-3 minutes. ^_^
  211. # [23:55] <TabAtkins> Definitely a problem.
  212. # [23:56] <gregwhitworth> plinss: Is it you that looks into slow servers, or is that someone else?
  213. # [23:57] <gregwhitworth> plinss: Obviously, it may not be the server, but looks into site issues?
  214. # [23:58] <liam> http://dev.w3.org/2011/QT3-test-suite/ is slow for me too
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  217. # Session Close: Fri Feb 20 00:00:00 2015

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